Local Elections 2019

bren2001

Hurrache wrote: »

Sigh, what will it take for some people to realise that green policies are not all about taxi.

I conduct research in the area of climate change and sustainable energy production and I would agree with many of the concepts the Green Party discuss.

While all of their policies are not about taxation, the way I see them, they are idealistic and suffer from 2 practical limitations.

1. If you want to move towards a carbon neutral society, you have to pay for it. It will require massive investment into public transport and cycle ways, grants for the installation of solar panels locally and larger tax breaks for the likes of the ESB etc. to move away from conventional high-capacity synchronous power plants based on fossil fuels and something in relation to the methane emissions from farming.

As a society we have to pay for all of this through general taxation and specific carbon taxes. If we tax industry, the additional cost will just be moved to the end user.

So while they are not all about taxation, it is a massive dilemna they will have to address. I have not heard Eamon Ryan give a detailed account of how the Green Parties will financially achieve their stated aims.

2. Due to the Irish political system, there is a huge amount of NIMBY stuff. There is only so far a single TD or Local Councillor can push before they run the risk of losing their seat. If the Greens are too aggressive, they will simply lose power (if they get any in the GE).

Sparko

PCX wrote: »

In Meath there is an independant - Sharon Keogan - who has stood in two neighbouring wards. She has been elected on the first count in one and looks like she may get elected on the second or third count in the other.

I'm surprised that someone is allowed to stand for election to two seats in the same council but she has done it so it must be within the rules.

Does anyone know what the rules are around this? Can a person elected in two wards just wait until the full results are in and then decide which of the two people who just missed out she prefers (or promises the most) and then effectively appoint them to the council? It doesn't seem fair to me if this is the case.

My understanding is that she has to choose one seat and then the council as a whole decides amongst themselves who is co-opted into the other seat. I'm not sure if that person necessarily has to be the next ranked person in the vote, I presume it'll all come down to horse trading between the councillors and dependent on who has overall power once the votes have been fully counted.

Although from reading comments on Facebook from the candidate in question she seems to think she can take both seats and seems intent on that, regardless of what the rules state. One to watch.

Hurrache

bren2001 wrote: »

I conduct research in the area of climate change and sustainable energy production and I would agree with many of the concepts the Green Party discuss.

While all of their policies are not about taxation, the way I see them, they idealistic and suffer from 2 practical limitations.

1. If you want to move towards a carbon neutral society, you have to pay for it. It will require massive investment into public transport cycle ways, grants for the installation of solar panels locally and larger tax breaks for the likes of the ESB etc. to move away from conventional high-capacity synchronous power plants based on fossil fuels and something in relation to the methane emissions from farming.

As a society we have to pay for all of this through general taxation and specific carbon taxes. If we tax industry, the additional cost will just be moved to the end user.

So while they are no all about taxation, it is a massive dilemna they will have to address. I have not heard Eamon Ryan give a detailed account of how the Green Parties will financially achieve their stated aims.

2. Due to the Irish political system, there is a huge amount of NIMBY stuff. There is only so far a single TD or Local Councillor can push before they run the risk of losing their seat. If the Greens are too aggressive, they will simply lose power (if they get any in the GE).

But as you said you're only focusing on the wider environmental and climate issues. Their manifesto has details on little things like safe drop offs around schools, deposit and refund schemes where plastic bottle are used, increased green light time for pedestrian crossing to give priority over cars, promoting farming co-ops and markets. Simple things like this.

MayoSalmon

Hurrache wrote: »

Sigh, what will it take for some people to realise that green policies are not all about taxi.

Taxes/Charges whatever you want to call it the Green Agenda has to be paid for.

The Irish Electorate have decided they would like to pay for it on top of everything else. How righteous we are.

is_that_so

bren2001 wrote: »

I conduct research in the area of climate change and sustainable energy production and I would agree with many of the concepts the Green Party discuss.

While all of their policies are not about taxation, the way I see them, they idealistic and suffer from 2 practical limitations.

1. If you want to move towards a carbon neutral society, you have to pay for it. It will require massive investment into public transport cycle ways, grants for the installation of solar panels locally and larger tax breaks for the likes of the ESB etc. to move away from conventional high-capacity synchronous power plants based on fossil fuels and something in relation to the methane emissions from farming.

As a society we have to pay for all of this through general taxation and specific carbon taxes. If we tax industry, the additional cost will just be moved to the end user.

So while they are no all about taxation, it is a massive dilemna they will have to address. I have not heard Eamon Ryan give a detailed account of how the Green Parties will financially achieve their stated aims.

2. Due to the Irish political system, there is a huge amount of NIMBY stuff. There is only so far a single TD or Local Councillor can push before they run the risk of losing their seat. If the Greens are too aggressive, they will simply lose power (if they get any in the GE).

He is more than a bit strident about it and while one recognises the urgency he is not the one you want pitching it to the electorate. Higher taxes are an extremely hard sell, public transport much less so and incentivisation models for renewables is also something people can embrace, but you need them all and an actual cost figure.

Eric Cartman

Anyone got a count breakdown for leixlip ? osme sites declaring nuala killeen as elected now and I just want to see how the hell that happened.

bren2001

Hurrache wrote: »

But as you said you're only focusing on the wider environmental and climate issues. Their manifesto has details on little things like safe drop offs around schools, deposit and refund schemes where plastic bottle are used, increased green light time for pedestrian crossing to give priority over cars, promoting farming co-ops and markets. Simple things like this.

And they are all great little things to implement but they are little. I think it's fair when discussing the merits of a party to ignore the small things and focus on what their manifesto is built on. The Greens are looking for a mandate to implement a massive overhaul of our society to move towards a carbon neutral economy. I think it's perfectly fair and reasonable to ask how are they going to fund this? [As an aside, I've no issue with increasing taxes but it's an impossible sell to the majority].

Realistically, how many TDs will they get in the next GE? 4? 5? That would be a great election for them. Doubling their numbers but they are a very small party and will have limited influence.

If the SD's and Labour do the sensible thing: merge and elect Roisin Shorthall as their leader, they could eat into the Greens base very quickly. There's no doubt they are targeting their base. Added to that, Labour should have a much stronger showing this GE. There's a handful of candidates I expect to get over the line: Ged Nash, Aodhan O'Riordan etc.

blanch152

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone got a count breakdown for leixlip ? osme sites declaring nuala killeen as elected now and I just want to see how the hell that happened.

Try the twitter feed of the local council.

Fingal's twitter feed was great yesterday giving details of all the counts.

Hurrache

bren2001 wrote: »

And they are all great little things to implement but they are little. I think it's fair when discussing the merits of a party to ignore the small things and focus on what their manifesto is built on. The Greens are looking for a mandate to implement a massive overhaul of our society to move towards a carbon neutral economy. I think it's perfectly fair and reasonable to ask how are they going to fund this? [As an aside, I've no issue with increasing taxes but it's an impossible sell to the majority].

Realistically, how many TDs will they get in the next GE? 4? 5? That would be a great election for them. Doubling their numbers but they are a very small party and will have limited influence.

If the SD's and Labour do the sensible thing: merge and elect Roisin Shorthall as their leader, they could eat into the Greens base very quickly. There's no doubt they are targeting their base. Added to that, Labour should have a much stronger showing this GE. There's a handful of candidates I expect to get over the line: Ged Nash, Aodhan O'Riordan etc.

But the elections are at local level, they have no power in bringing in carbon taxes country wide. So for the current discussion, talking about bringing in carbon taxes is premature. And regardless of the next governmental make up, they'll be coming in in some form regardless.

bren2001

Hurrache wrote: »

But the elections are at local level, they have no power in bringing in carbon taxes country wide. So for the current discussion, talking about bringing in carbon taxes is premature. And regardless of the next governmental make up, they'll be coming in in some form regardless.

It is premature all right but they can bring in other taxes locally. They can adjust the property tax as they see fit.

I wouldn't agree that they will be coming in some form regardless. The farmers have a big say and will vehemently oppose a carbon tax. FF are savy enough to not introduce them.

maynooth_rules

Will the results here have any impact on the media in terms of their reporting? The amount of TV exposure and newspaper lines that the hard left i.e. PBP, anti austerity etc etc. get, considering their tiny support is crazy.

Zubeneschamali

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone got a count breakdown for leixlip ? osme sites declaring nuala killeen as elected now and I just want to see how the hell that happened.

https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2019/results/?app=true#/local/kildare-county/leixlip

PCX

Sparko wrote: »

My understanding is that she has to choose one seat and then the council as a whole decides amongst themselves who is co-opted into the other seat. I'm not sure if that person necessarily has to be the next ranked person in the vote, I presume it'll all come down to horse trading between the councillors and dependent on who has overall power once the votes have been fully counted.

Although from reading comments on Facebook from the candidate in question she seems to think she can take both seats and seems intent on that, regardless of what the rules state. One to watch.

It is interesting. I found the facebook post where she has said that she intends taking both seats and presumably having two votes on the council. If that is allowed then there is no reason why an individual or party candidate could not stand in all of the areas for a council and take a seat in each i.e. one councillor with 6+ votes.

If she does take one of the seats and not the other then the votes of the people who voted for her in the second ward are lost and not passed down to their next preference candidate. If she gets to nominate a person who did not stand in the election then we are effectively introducing a party list system by the back door - no reason why large parties couldn't do the same thing. If the council as a whole decides who takes the seat then it benefits FF or FG.

I just think that it is an abuse of the principle of the STV system that we have. I'll be interested to see how this all pans out.

Squatter

Amusing to see that Patrick Pearse Holohan (Sinn Féin) was elected after the 6th count in Tallaght South.

With a name like that he was a shoo-in!

It's not looking so good for the luckless Oliver Cromwell in Tipperary South West!*


* only joking!

Squatter

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Will the results here have any impact on the media in terms of their reporting? The amount of TV exposure and newspaper lines that the hard left i.e. PBP, anti austerity etc etc. get, considering their tiny support is crazy.

It just means that they'll probablyindulge in more mindless publicity stunts to keep themselves in the news.

ShyMets

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone got a count breakdown for leixlip ? osme sites declaring nuala killeen as elected now and I just want to see how the hell that happened.

With Catherine Murphy living in Lexlip I thought Kileen would get a decent enough vote, some of Murphy's popularity rubbing off. But I'm slightly stunned that she got elected. I'd say Anthony Larkin is sick to his gills.

Fan of Netflix

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone got a count breakdown for leixlip ? osme sites declaring nuala killeen as elected now and I just want to see how the hell that happened.

Luckily many of the pink haired #repealthe8th hardcore twitter feminists lost their seats. Several of them in Sinn Fein and PBP did. Many of the SocDems failed also but a few of them snuck in. Their echo chamber on twitter doesn't equate to votes in real life. Spewing hatred against men isn't really a winning electoral strategy.

josip

Not sure if it's already been mentioned here but did the Greens leave it behind them in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown ?


Topped the poll in 4 of the 6 districts and 2nd in the other 2.
They only ran a single candidate in each district presumably expecting a lower 1st pref %age.

Fianna Fail with a lower overall first pref secured 1 more seat on the overall council.
Not inconceivable that the Greens could have brought 2 councillors home in each district.
I know it's easier with hindsight, but isn't this the job of the party vote management people?

bren2001

josip wrote: »

Not sure if it's already been mentioned here but did the Greens leave it behind them in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown ?


Topped the poll in 4 of the 6 districts and 2nd in the other 2.
They only ran a single candidate in each district presumably expecting a lower 1st pref %age.

Fianna Fail with a lower overall first pref secured 1 more seat on the overall council.
Not inconceivable that the Greens could have brought 2 councillors home in each district.
I know it's easier with hindsight, but isn't this the job of the party vote management people?

Nobody expected this from the Greens. There were no indications this was about to happen. Very easy to plan an election in hindsight.

Seth Brundle

ShyMets wrote: »

With Catherine Murphy living in Lexlip I thought Kileen would get a decent enough vote, some of Murphy's popularity rubbing off. But I'm slightly stunned that she got elected. I'd say Anthony Larkin is sick to his gills.

Killeen not Kileen - you've been looking at her posters too long.
Apparently she is CM's constituency manager.
Does she even live in Leixlip? I think she may live in Clane!

AndrewJRenko

josip wrote: »

I know it's easier with hindsight, but isn't this the job of the party vote management people?

What 'party vote management people'? It is a tiny operation with no Malcolm Tuckers and no private opinion polls, I guess . All new, first time candidates - it would have been a huge risk to run extra candidates - could well have lost everything.

Sparko

PCX wrote: »

It is interesting. I found the facebook post where she has said that she intends taking both seats and presumably having two votes on the council. If that is allowed then there is no reason why an individual or party candidate could not stand in all of the areas for a council and take a seat in each i.e. one councillor with 6+ votes.

If she does take one of the seats and not the other then the votes of the people who voted for her in the second ward are lost and not passed down to their next preference candidate. If she gets to nominate a person who did not stand in the election then we are effectively introducing a party list system by the back door - no reason why large parties couldn't do the same thing. If the council as a whole decides who takes the seat then it benefits FF or FG.

I just think that it is an abuse of the principle of the STV system that we have. I'll be interested to see how this all pans out.

She has officially won the two seats now. Apparently considering a legal challenge to ensure she can hold both seats according to this article..

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2019/05/27/4174748-keogan-becomes-first-woman-in-ireland-elected-to-two-electoral-areas/

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

FF will come back because SF wasted their chance. SF will then learn and come back when FF waste their chance. That's generally the way things work in our conservative politics. I used to give Sinn Féin a high preference in the 1990s when the Sunday Independent and all O'Reilly's rags launched their acerbic attacks on John Hume and the Peace Process. I also gave similarly strategic high preferences to FF under Reynolds for precisely the same reason. The fact that at the same time the Blueshirts were led by John Unionist and Avril Doyle was telling us that "the Famine was a shared experience between the British and Irish peoples" ensured SF would always get a high preference under a PR-STV system (i.e. my SF transfer would get the marginal FF candidate elected into the final seat - and he'd know where that transfer came from so would want to keep it).

However, despite Sinn Féin being the largest party on Dublin City Council they refused to change the title from the royalist 'Lord Mayor' addition back to its original, medieval 'Mayor' title. A simple, symbolic thing that many of us who voted for it in hope in the 1990s were watching. Just how many Irish republicans died so that Sinn Féin could celebrate having a "Lord Mayor" of Dublin? In actual power in Dublin, they just took the soup when it came to republicanism. Not a single British royalist streetname in Dublin renamed either after heroes of the Irish tradition. No different to the Blueshirts or Fianna Fáil (both of which kept a wigged judiciary going in this state until the past 10 years). Let's not kid ourselves here.

The reduction in building standards and apartment sizes in Dublin is more of the same. In this context, their criticisms of other parties for the housing crisis is just offensive to our intelligence. It all doesn't help that the uncouth, cultureless ruffians who often speak for it consider anybody paying marginal tax rates of 55% as being "rich". It's possible to be Irish republican, acutely feel our country's history and traditions, be left-of-centre, love Irish and Irish culture and pay high tax so politically SF would have been smarter to get a better definition of "rich".

I think FG have more to do with FF advancing than a poor show from SF.
SF not changing street names never crossed my mind TBH.

You're actually explaining a lot here. People putting lack of change and bad government policy on SF, even though they've no power is why they've done so bad. Criticising policies never enacted as somehow less appetising than the non functioning ones brought in by FG and supported by FF.
Somehow we let FG off the hook to an extent by blaming the opposition, for what I'm not quite sure. The only opposition with any power are FF, and they did better that FG.
I would suggest the average voter needs to cop themselves on as they seem to be discontented with FG, but willing to support FF who in turn support FG. I can see the Green vote as something FF/FG will absorb by stealing some policies from the Greens. That is the nature of FF/FG and that's how they persist despite their incompetence, willful or otherwise.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think FG have more to do with FF advancing than a poor show from SF.
SF not changing street names never crossed my mind TBH.

You're actually explaining a lot here. People putting lack of change and bad government policy on SF, even though they've no power is why they've done so bad. Criticising policies never enacted as somehow less appetising than the non functioning ones brought in by FG and supported by FF.
Somehow we let FG off the hook to an extent by blaming the opposition, for what I'm not quite sure. The only opposition with any power are FF, and they did better that FG.
I would suggest the average voter needs to cop themselves on as they seem to be discontented with FG, but willing to support FF who in turn support FG. I can see the Green vote as something FF/FG will absorb by stealing some policies from the Greens. That is the nature of FF/FG and that's how they persist despite their incompetence, willful or otherwise.

SF voters went two directions in this poll - FF and Aontu.

What FG have to do with that is beyond me.

Fan of Netflix

blanch152 wrote: »

SF voters went two directions in this poll - FF and Aontu.

What FG have to do with that is beyond me.

Exactly, and I think Sinn Feiners trying to claim their voters voted for the Greens is laughable tbh.

Squatter

Final party count for the 4 Dublin councils: FG 36, FF 34, Ind 29, Green 25, Lab 22, SF 18, SD 9, Sol/PBP 8, I4C 2.

(John Kilraine, RTE tweet)

blanch152

Squatter wrote: »

Final party count for the 4 Dublin councils: FG 36, FF 34, Ind 29, Green 25, Lab 22, SF 18, SD 9, Sol/PBP 8, I4C 2.

(John Kilraine, RTE tweet)

Just saw that. Now that is some collapse by Sinn Fein, from biggest party in Dublin to fifth biggest party, and also behind independents. A huge story from this election.

blanch152

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Just missing a photo of Team Lowry.

Gombeen politics making a roaring come back in Ireland. It's truly depressing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/louth-county-council-fianna-f%C3%A1il-big-winners-as-sinn-f%C3%A9in-loses-three-seats-1.3890461

This is even worse. Councillor McGeough, the man who turned a blind eye and refused to help child abuse victims got over 1,000 votes in the election. Some people have no empathy.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

SF voters went two directions in this poll - FF and Aontu.

What FG have to do with that is beyond me.

You misunderstood(?). I'll clarify, the idea was put forward that SF lost support because they were poor opposition and FF benefited from that.
I disagreed and suggest FG have more to do with the rise in FF popularity than SF.

Now I've no idea why you seem to be disagreeing with a comment that isn't there quite frankly.
FG bolstered, made viable FF, not a poor performance by SF IMO.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/louth-county-council-fianna-f%C3%A1il-big-winners-as-sinn-f%C3%A9in-loses-three-seats-1.3890461

This is even worse. Councillor McGeough, the man who turned a blind eye and refused to help child abuse victims got over 1,000 votes in the election. Some people have no empathy.

Did Noonan no harm either.

And this former FG councillor...

Councillor who told undercover reporter he wanted 'loads of money' is re-elected
https://www.thejournal.ie/hugh-mcelvaney-elected-4652168-May2019/

I'm sure he fixed a pothole or two.

gmisk

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Did Noonan no harm either.

And this former FG councillor...



I'm sure he fixed a pothole or two.

That is maybe partially more to do with the lack of competition? 5 seats and only 6 on the ballot

is_that_so

I see Wicklow is going to keep on with the fun tomorrow!

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You misunderstood(?). I'll clarify, the idea was put forward that SF lost support because they were poor opposition and FF benefited from that.
I disagreed and suggest FG have more to do with the rise in FF popularity than SF.

Now I've no idea why you seem to be disagreeing with a comment that isn't there quite frankly.
FG bolstered, made viable FF, not a poor performance by SF IMO.

The rise in Aontu votes and FF votes equals the fall in Sinn Fein votes, so it is clear what happened. SF lost support because they were poor in many ways, and the vote went to FF and Aontu. That is the explanation for what happened.

Trying to blame FG for this is laughable, especially when FG's vote went up in the locals.

Galwayguy35

keane2097 wrote: »

OK?

Personally I find it hard to see how Green Party local councillors and/or MEPs will have any impact on the taxation of poor people but it's great to see the right wingers worried about them all of a sudden however incoherent their rationale is

Maybe you should be more worried about the dismal performance of the left in the election rather than concerning yourself about what the right is doing.

keane2097

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe you should be more worried about the dismal performance of the left in the election rather than concerning yourself about what the right is doing.

Ok

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The rise in Aontu votes and FF votes equals the fall in Sinn Fein votes, so it is clear what happened. SF lost support because they were poor in many ways, and the vote went to FF and Aontu. That is the explanation for what happened.

Trying to blame FG for this is laughable, especially when FG's vote went up in the locals.

While it's possible some support from SF transferred to FF, (but we don't know as the Indies did pretty well out of this not to mention your alleged party the greens), no party did more to secure FF viability on the political scene than FG, putting them in a power position despite having us 'practically eating out of bins'. FG raised the profile of FF over the past many years, not SF. SF would be guilty of losing votes, the idea they promoted FF is what's laughable.

Squatter

Can any intelligent poster explain to me how in the name of f**k Longford, with a total population of only 40,000, still hasn't managed to complete the count for the local elections?

Does the local Returning Officer recruit half wits to do the counting as a a cost-saving initiative?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/longford-county-council-counting-process-enters-third-day-1.3890459

Sierra Oscar

So it turns out the Labour Party actually ended up with more first preference votes than the Green Party. The exit poll was an absolute shambles.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

While it's possible some support from SF transferred to FF, (but we don't know as the Indies did pretty well out of this not to mention your alleged party the greens), no party did more to secure FF viability on the political scene than FG, putting them in a power position despite having us 'practically eating out of bins'. FG raised the profile of FF over the past many years, not SF. SF would be guilty of losing votes, the idea they promoted FF is what's laughable.

Sinn Fein' failure to offer a single constructive contribution to Irish society over the last decade is part of the reason why they failed.

I really don't understand how a 1.5% increase in the FF vote is the fault of a 1.2% rise in the FG vote. No logic to that at all.

Squatter

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein' failure to offer a single constructive contribution to Irish society over the last decade is part of the reason why they failed.

I really don't understand how a 1.5% increase in the FF vote is the fault of a 1.2% rise in the FG vote. No logic to that at all.

Matt doesn't do logic.

blanch152

Squatter wrote: »

Matt doesn't do logic.

I see that up until the current count (14th), Andrews has got more transfers than Boylan. I assume that somehow that is also the fault of FG.

What baffles me is how FG are also responsible for the rise of the Greens.

L1011

Squatter wrote: »

Does the local Returning Officer recruit half wits to do the counting as a a cost-saving initiative?

Longford historically had the highest rate of people who didn't finish secondary school (although it has improved to 4th highest)...

Squatter

blanch152 wrote: »

I see that up until the current count (14th), Andrews has got more transfers than Boylan. I assume that somehow that is also the fault of FG.

What baffles me is how FG are also responsible for the rise of the Greens.

Go easy now, he's still licking his wounds over the failure of the gummy bear!

Snow Garden

Squatter wrote: »

Can any intelligent poster explain to me how in the name of f**k Longford, with a total population of only 40,000, still hasn't managed to complete the count for the local elections?

Does the local Returning Officer recruit half wits to do the counting as a a cost-saving initiative?

They are all on expenses!

SirGerryAdams

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

So it turns out the Labour Party actually ended up with more first preference votes than the Green Party. The exit poll was an absolute shambles.

The Labour Wave ™

AndrewJRenko

Snow Garden wrote: »

They are all on expenses!

So you reckon it's all about the €14 that they get to cover meals for the ten hour shift?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein' failure to offer a single constructive contribution to Irish society over the last decade is part of the reason why they failed.

I really don't understand how a 1.5% increase in the FF vote is the fault of a 1.2% rise in the FG vote. No logic to that at all.

Did I even mention why I think SF lost votes? You're writing your own story here.

To make it as clear as I can for you, I am not talking on why SF lost votes. I am stating that SF are unlikely to be the reason FF have gained more support IMO.
I am also not saying how many FG votes transferred to FF, that's your false misunderstanding of a plain point I've now repeated 3 times but you can't seem to comprehend.

Here we go;
You cannot credit SF losing votes to the rise in support for Fianna Fail.
So far so good?

If you're looking to assign blame for that I'd look to FG for bringing them to the table and raising their profile.
Raising the FF profile, with me?

Now if you have proof every former SF voter decided to vote FF, that still doesn't put FF's rise in popularity on SF. You are looking to blame SF on the rise in support for FF, this is convenient for Fine Gael alright, but complete codology. FG has FF in the news week in week out and in a power position not SF, not PBP, not the Greens.

I would have thought you'd be more interested in the Greens news than deflecting for FG?

blanch152 wrote: »

I see that up until the current count (14th), Andrews has got more transfers than Boylan. I assume that somehow that is also the fault of FG.

What baffles me is how FG are also responsible for the rise of the Greens.

You are disagreeing with yourself there Blanch. Pathetic rhetoric off you.

markodaly

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If you're looking to assign blame for that I'd look to FG for bringing them to the table and raising their profile.

What are you blathering about? Raising the profile of FF?

Need I remind you of the history of FF, they are the most successful political parties not just in Ireland but also in Europe.

FF in the local elections increased their vote by 1.4%. Not exactly a surge, is it?
FG increased their share by 1.3% by the way.

It seems the centrist parties have done well in this election and Greens would be one of those.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

What are you blathering about? Raising the profile of FF?

Need I remind you of the history of FF, they are the most successful political parties not just in Ireland but also in Europe.

FF in the local elections increased their vote by 1.4%. Not exactly a surge, is it?
FG increased their share by 1.3% by the way.

It seems the centrist parties have done well in this election and Greens would be one of those.

Do you think FG bringing FF to prominence after having us 'practically eating out of bins' played a small part? I do.
I'll leave you to your blather. You seemed to understand my comment well enough to respond.

Fan of Netflix

How are they still counting in Longford? 4 seats to play for in one area I heard there on radio? Something seriously wrong there if it goes to nearly 5 days counting a few thousand votes