Rise of Vegetarian/Veganism

gozunda

auspicious wrote: »

In reply to this post: This thread is not supposed to be representative of Irish farmers / food producers. The OP never mentioned that.

I'd agree and yet a previous poster brought that up in an attempt to throw ****e. Is that not strange perhaps?

The rise of veganism started as a result of the dissemination of ideas, views and knowledge across the World Wide Web.
People became educated about the standard practices and not so standard practices of animal agriculture. They gained the knowledge that one can live and thrive on plant based diets ...

My last post makes no mention of 'veganism' etc or even the much maligned vegetarians. So why would you bring that up? (And yes I am aware of the thread title btw). I know I will be attacked for even responding to that. Why would I do so seriously? My interest is food and its production and to counter some of the bs being posted about that. Much of that which is bring pushed is misinformation and also sadly propaganda. I will respond to that.

Standards of agricultural production in Ireland are very high and strictly regulated. People can thrive on a wide range of foodstuffs and different diets and be healthy including eating meat and dairy as part of a healthy balanced diet. Animals are in the absolute majority of cases well cared for and protected against illness and predation. 'Secretions' I find is a hilarious but seriously bizarre phrase for normal every day / milk, eggs etc. Mammals produce 'milk' in my reality. I've checked with others and they report it's the same in theirs.

As to this

Becoming vegan not only lessens the suffering which animals endure but also proactively combats human rights issues.

Here are some examples of how that is just words and little else tbh.

There is no world shortage of food. There is food inequality due to corruption, conflict and poverty.
https://www.worldhunger.org/letter-food-shortage-world-questions/

Many people in developing countries are dependent on livestock for food and agriculture. For example: Ethiopia has approx 53 million cattle and this type of agriculture forms an important part of the economy.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/features/of-cabbages-and-cows-increasing-agricultural-yields-in-africa

India has more bovines than any other country on earth including some 75 million dairy farms - providing a nutritious food source of food for many of it's own people. https://qz.com/235085/india-75-million-dairy-farms-now-make-more-milk-than-all-of-the-european-union/

86 % of all food fed to animals comes from by-products of the human food industry. Not 'grain'!
http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/home/en/news_archive/2017_More_Fuel_for_the_Food_Feed.html

The majority of people who work in food processing - including the killing of animals are well adjusted and live normal lives. The slaughter of animals for food is highly regulated and inspected. This is well documented.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/aug/29/slaughterhouse-crossing-line-between-life-meat

The production of food in parts of the world with few if any environmental standards of ethics is a huge issue. Whether that is vegan or any other products. This is well documented
https://boingboing.net/2018/09/03/veganism-might-make-you-feel-b.html

Eat healthily, eat locally and if you do not trust others for whatever reason grow and / or source your own food. This is easier than most people believe.

Please dont hate me for replying. I dont care what anyone eats tbh. I do not try to persuade anyone to change their diet. However I strongly dislike misinformation of any kind. Thanks

andekwarhola

My wife is vegetarian and before the kids came along, I'd kinda faded away from eating meat except for when we ate out which was about once a week. I do like a decent meat meal though and I wasn't and am not willing to give it completely.

Now that the kids are here, we (excluding wife) eat meat maybe about twice a week, fish 1-2 times a week and veggie stuff the rest. Obviously we'd do treats with the kids like burger places and whatever. One thing we've definitely done recently is eiliminated processed meats from our household diet.

No problem with Vegans though. It's admirably healthy if they're doing it right but it's just not for me.

auspicious

*Gozunda- My last post makes no mention of veganism etc or even the much maligned vegetarians. So why would you bring that up?*

That was just my reply to the OP.

I don't hate you for replying. Not at all. I dont hate anyone. Well except those who deserve it; the same people that you and anybody sane hate.

auspicious

Jazmin Some Designer wrote: »

I will stop wearing leather shoes, belts etc and use ones made from petroleum products.

Look, it's senseless to think we can live in a perfect world. We just got to make the right choices and limit our impact with intent.

prinzeugen

auspicious wrote: »

The grain used to feed American livestock alone could eradicate world hunger and feed 800 million hungry men, women and children.

Sorry but that is absolute bollox. Which "grain" are you talking about? Wheat? Barley? Corn? All of them?

Most animal feed comes from the leftovers after the grain has been used for something else. IIRC most of the corn grown in the US is turned into ethanol and the waste used as feed. It has little nutritional value to humans. Just look at places in Ohio were its the main crop and there ethanol plants everywhere.

The US does not produce enough grain for its needs. Thats why it needs to export some (wheat) and import others (barley) from Canada for example.

gozunda

prinzeugen wrote: »

Sorry but that is absolute bollox. Which "grain" are you talking about? Wheat? Barley? Corn? All of them?

Most animal feed comes from the leftovers after the grain has been used for something else. IIRC most of the corn grown in the US is turned into ethanol and the waste used as feed. It has little nutritional value to humans. Just look at places in Ohio were its the main crop and there ethanol plants everywhere.

The US does not produce enough grain for its needs. Thats why it needs to export some (wheat) and import others (barley) from Canada for example.

Edit: Those figures as given by the PP are taken from an American website which lists the author as "Dr. Oppenlander"recognized as top 100 most influential vegans"(sic). Not only do the figures not match with any of the official FAO or other data - there is no sources for any of the claims made and the article contains no references whatsover. So as you say rubbish

The one crop that the US is sufficient in is Soya and it is currently the largest grower of soya beans globally. This crop is primarily processed for soya oil - the worlds most commonly used oil and a valuable commodity on the international market. After the last drop of oil is squeezed from the soya beans - the left overs - ie the husks and what is known as 'soy meal' is processed for further use. As by-products these are used in a variety of ways including animal feed especially for lot fed animals. In Europe and elsewhere these residues are mainly used as a supplementary feedstuff if needed - when livestock is housed during the winter months.

Sawduck

Let vegan's be vegan and meat eaters be meat eaters, don't know why its got to be an issue,just eat what you want

prinzeugen

gozunda wrote: »

The one crop that the US is sufficient in is Soya and it is currently the largest grower of soya beans globally. This crop is primarily processed for soya oil - the worlds most commonly used oil and a valuable commodity on the international market. After the last drop of oil is squeezed from the soya beans - the left overs - ie the husks and what is known as 'soy meal' is processed for further use. As by-products these are used in a variety of ways including animal feed especially for lot fed animals. In Europe and elsewhere these residues are mainly used as a supplementary feedstuff if needed - when livestock is housed during the winter months.

And I believe its being sold to China for ¢¢ while everything coming in is $$! Great trade deal Trump!

I think I have said this before. If there was a global incident and all trade stopped, vegans are going to eat meat or starve.

From what I have seen, 80% of a vegans diet is imported. How is that good for the environment? Get rid of livestock but chuck 1000s more planes in the air to feed us.

As they would say in the US "The math does not add up".

YFlyer

Snickers Man wrote: »

More meat for the rest of us

How?

Busterie

I am a meat eater but can understand that people ant to reduce meat and dairy for environmental as well as cruelty to animal reasons, it is inevitable that the sales of beef and dairy will collapse in the future.What annoys me is the hysterical reaction of farmers organisations who think the tax payer should bail them out again for producing food people do not want

YFlyer

Still waters wrote: »

It's amusing to read the farmers on the farming forum complaining about the rise in vegetarians, youd think they were dependent on every human alive eating 3 steaks a day when in reality blaming the few vegetarians for their problems is like blaming a turf fire in connemara on global warming

In truth we would probably all be a lot healthier if we cut down the amount of meat and ate more veg and fruit

Farming a small farm here so I'm all for more money for meat but I don't see a healthy future in the mass production of animals for the slaughter houses

That's Dan and his side kick that follow every vegan thread.

uck51js9zml2yt

Busterie wrote: »

I am a meat eater but can understand that people ant to reduce meat and dairy for environmental as well as cruelty to animal reasons, it is inevitable that the sales of beef and dairy will collapse in the future.What annoys me is the hysterical reaction of farmers organisations who think the tax payer should bail them out again for producing food people do not want

What food don't people want?

gozunda

YFlyer wrote: »

That's Dan and his side kick that follow every vegan thread.

Still waters wrote:

....Farming a small farm here

Why the fuk attack Still Waters and others just because he's a farmer? Afaik he can post where he likes. What contribution have you made to thr discussion? Farmers grow food for everyone including veggies. Or just picking posters for ****e and giggles? Is it because their different from you or might have an opinion or reply to posts in AH which talk about food & agriculture? Why is that?

silverharp

veganism is a dietary experiment that has never been tried before, there has never been a vegan society and eating meat was part of our evolutionary development. Experiment with your life if you want to but there is no reason to think its an optimal diet for humans.

YFlyer

gozunda wrote: »

Why the fuk attack Still Waters just because he's a farmer? Afaik he can post where he likes. What contribution have you made to thr discussion? Farmers grow food for everyone including veggies. Or just picking posters for ****e and giggles? Is it because their different from you or might have an opinion or reply to posts in AH which talk about food & agriculture? Why is that?

Where did I attack him?

wakka12

silverharp wrote: »

veganism is a dietary experiment that has never been tried before, there has never been a vegan society and eating meat was part of our evolutionary development. Experiment with your life if you want to but there is no reason to think its an optimal diet for humans.

There is no optimal diet, everyone reacts differently to foods. but veganism is by no means an unhealthy diet to try

whisky_galore

A Western fad, out in Asia they chow down anything and everything with a pulse.

is_that_so

Sawduck wrote: »

Let vegan's be vegan and meat eaters be meat eaters, don't know why its got to be an issue,just eat what you want

It's the animals - people can get highly charged around the subject of animal husbandry.

gozunda

YFlyer wrote: »

Where did I attack him?

YFlyerThat's Dan and his side kick that follow every vegan thread.

What you call that then? Dan is a farmer, Still waters is a farmer. What's the problem? Are posters not allowed to comment on threads in AH etc that have comments about farming, food et?. Are others not allowed to comment as well? Or does freedom of expression only work for select groups? Why is that?

YFlyer

gozunda wrote: »

What you call that then? Dan is a farmer, Still waters is a farmer. What's the problem? Are posters not allowed to comment on threads in AH etc that have comments about farming, food et?. Are others not allowed to comment as well? Or does freedom of expression only work for select groups?

Quote: Still waters
It's amusing to read the farmers on the farming forum complaining about the rise in vegetarians, youd think they were dependent on every human alive eating 3 steaks a day when in reality blaming the few vegetarians for their problems is like blaming a turf fire in connemara on global warming.

I was responding to this paragraph.

StereoSound

I'm a vegetarian purely for my skin, I don't have red blotchy acne prone skin anymore since I gave up all meats. All the fats and hormones in meat run riot on my skin. I'm not giving up meat because I care about the animals or any crap like that.

joe_99

YFlyer wrote: »

Quote: Still waters
It's amusing to read the farmers on the farming forum complaining about the rise in vegetarians, youd think they were dependent on every human alive eating 3 steaks a day when in reality blaming the few vegetarians for their problems is like blaming a turf fire in connemara on global warming.

I was responding to this paragraph.

Strangely farmers also grow vegetables but they don't seem too keen on promoting that.

gozunda

"YFlyer wrote: »

..
I was responding to this paragraph.

Yeah and Dan and Still waters are both farmers or is it to attack only those who are interested in threads/ comments about food and agriculture? Typical stupid type comment tbh. Seems some others dont want anyone to comment because it doesn't suit their narrow world view. Personally I dont give a monkies what anyone eats. If you have a problem with a poster I'd suggest you do the normal thing and report them.

YFlyer

joe_99 wrote: »

Strangely farmers also grow vegetables but they don't seem too keen on promoting that.

True Joe.

YFlyer

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah and Dan and Still waters are both farmers or is it to attack only those who are interested in threads/ comments about food and agriculture? Typical stupid thick ignorant type comment tbh. Seems some others dont want anyone to comment because it doesn't suit their narrow world view. Personally I dont give a monkies what anyone eats. If you have a problem with a poster I'd suggest you do the normal thing and report them.

I was agreeing with Still waters.

gozunda

YFlyer wrote: »

I was agreeing with Still waters.

Agreeing me rearend. What you said was

YFlyer wrote:

That's Dan and his side kick that follow every vegan thread.

So you're using one farmer who is commenting here to attack another farmer who is also commenting here - and all because you dont like what one of them is saying??? I see. Well how about actually contributing to the discussion for a change? Thought tbh I've no idea what your real problem is. This is AH - the thread was created by someone who eats meat. Afaik theres no restrictions on who can post. Thanks.

zapitastas

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What's wrong with not wanting to eat animals? I don't get why it annoys people so much. I don't eat much red meat or dairy at all, don't miss it or need it.

Meat is easily manageable. Avoiding dairy is a nightmare. Is in everything

gozunda

joe_99 wrote: »

Strangely farmers also grow vegetables but they don't seem too keen on promoting that.

Ah they do Joe. Sure why would they grow stuff and not want to sell it? I think it's just more that the vegetable farmers anr't being attacked for some strange reason. Anyhow I reckon you mustn't be reading the right comments.

Heres the national agricultural and food promotion agency on our lovely Irish veg produced by Irish farmers. Is that good enough?

https://www.bordbia.ie/consumer/aboutfood/veg/pages/default.aspx/field_vegetables

orourkeda1977

I'm off for a big juicy steak.

How do you like that vegetarians?

YFlyer

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I'm off for a big juicy steak.

How do you like that vegetarians?

Enjoy.

archer22

Will ye whist lads, before poor old gozzy here keels over from the combination of cholesterol from the meat and stress from all those vegetarian and vegan threads

nice_guy80

gozunda wrote: »

Ah they do Joe. Sure why would they grow stuff and not want to sell it? I think it's just more that the vegetable farmers anr't being attacked for some strange reason. Anyhow I reckon you mustn't be reading the right comments.

Heres the national agricultural and food promotion agency on our lovely Irish veg produced by Irish farmers. Is that good enough?

https://www.bordbia.ie/consumer/aboutfood/veg/pages/default.aspx/field_vegetables

Up to 60% of veg and fruit grown is rejected by buyers for supermarkets for aesthetic reasons

Vegans like their veg to be beautiful (non vegans too)

branie2

Vegans take it too far!

gozunda

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

"archer22 wrote:

Will ye whist lads, before poor old gozzy here keels over from the combination of cholesterol from the meat and stress from all those vegetarian and vegan threads

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

Lol. Even more ad hominem thrown at posters on this thread...

*News flash * This thread was created by a meat eater (shock - horror - gasp!) and although it has lots about food and agriculture only veg*ns can comment in this thread lol. Strange that ...

gozunda

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Up to 60% of veg and fruit grown is rejected by buyers for supermarkets for aesthetic reasons
Vegans like their veg to be beautiful (non vegans too)

I quite like ugly and even misshapen vegetables tbh. Theres room for all sorts tbh.

Some of the big supermarkets are now ditching previous supermarket directed buying preferences so that 'wonky vegerables' are now popular ...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/the-fightback-against-food-waste-1.2532784

whisky_galore

Sawduck wrote: »

Let vegan's be vegan and meat eaters be meat eaters, don't know why its got to be an issue,just eat what you want

I'd love if it were that simple, but every time an ad for a meat product appears on arsebook it's guaranteed there will be a "meat is murder" type post.

ToddyDoody

"I don't eat meat myself but wouldn't judge anyone who does"

auspicious

gozunda wrote: »

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

archer22 wrote: »

Will ye whist lads, before poor old gozzy here keels over from the combination of cholesterol from the meat and stress from all those vegetarian and vegan threads

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

Lol. Even more ad hominem thrown at posters on this thread...

*News flash * This thread was created by a meat eater (shock - horror - gasp!) and although it has lots about food and agriculture only veg*ns can comment in this thread lol. Strange that ...

Not ad hominem in a sense as if you read the post again, archer22 is actually a meat eater, and quite funny.

silverharp

wakka12 wrote: »

There is no optimal diet, everyone reacts differently to foods. but veganism is by no means an unhealthy diet to try

there are a range of optimal diets, i wouldnt list veganism as one, i'd imagine its better than some obviously bad diets, it just seems easy to become deficient in various nutrients so then becomes complicated, having to resort to various supplements

gozunda

auspicious wrote: »

Not ad hominem in a sense as if you read the post again, archer22 is actually a meat eater, and quite funny.

Funny. That you are supporting such rubbish is telling. Btw you need to look up the meaning of ad-hominem btw. Shame because there really are some decent veg*ns out there. And just for the record I don't give a monkies what anyone eats.- whether they eat meat, vegetables or whatever. But there you go.

And just one tiny thing ...

archer22 wrote: »

I find any kind of meat diet heavy and hard to digest...also when I was on a meat diet I could not lose excess weight despite doing a lot of fitness training.
Since going vegetarian I have lost all excess fat and am now virtually as lean and fit as I was when I was young.I have not found any lack of energy on a vegetarian diet, quite the opposite in fact.And there is no need to diet as such when vegetarian you can eat as much as you want so no need to go hungry or minimise portions etc.Just eat when ever you feel like eating.

So if as you claim "archer22 is actually a meat eater"(sic) then either you lie or are deluded.

So there we have it folks. Ad hominem, advocacy for same and false statements.

And people wonder why others have little if any respect for the type of ****e which some self declared veg*ns exhibit :mad:

Unearthly

gozunda wrote: »

there really are some decent vegans out there

I'd be disappointed if you didn't think I was one

Thelonious Monk

gozunda wrote: »

And just for the record I don't give a monkies what anyone eats.- whether they eat meat, vegetables or whatever. But there you go.

You have 450 posts in the vegan forum but you don't care what people eat?

auspicious

silverharp wrote: »

there are a range of optimal diets, i wouldnt list veganism as one, i'd imagine its better than some obviously bad diets, it just seems easy to become deficient in various nutrients so then becomes complicated, having to resort to various supplements

Personally I only take veg1 supplement from the Vegan Soceity. It contains the D3, B12, and iodine I need regularly, amongst others.
I get my omega 3 from walnuts, kidney beans, chia seeds, flax seeds and many other sources.
Selenium from brazil nuts, chia seeds, brown rice etc. You can also get B12 from fortified foods and nooch.

70% of Europeans and infants worldwide are deficient in Vit D.
2 billion people are deficient in iodine worldwide.
Ireland is one of the most selenium deficient countries in the world.


Ruminants obtain B12 from anaerobic bateria in soil but to properly synthesize it they require cobalt supplements as many soils are low in it.
Cobalt B12 supplements for cattle include selenium amongst others.

Adults over the age of 50 who have atrophic gastritis (their stomach isn’t making as much acid) may not absorb B12 as well. This accounts for the majority of deficiency in older adults. Because atrophic gastritis may be relatively common, a B12 supplement or fortified foods are recommended by the Institute of Medicine for all adults over age 50, regardless of diet.
- nutritionstudies.org

Edgware

auspicious wrote: »

Not ad hominem in a sense as if you read the post again, archer22 is actually a meat eater, and quite funny.

Is his sister a meat eater?

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You have 450 posts in the vegan forum but you don't care what people eat?

Wtf?

Lordy even more following from thread to thread I post loads in the weather forum. Should I not post there as well? How many posts fo you have btw? So you're saying you believe no one else except 'special' people should post? Seriously!

It's funny the mod in the vegetarian etc forum has no issue with lots of different posters posting there - so why do you keep haranguing other posters? Why is that? If you have a problem maybe go talk to someone ok?

Btw if maintaining courtesy, respect, and exercising tolerance of opposing views is really that difficult, I doubt that a public forum format is the best place for your opinions on others.

anewme

I’m slowly switching from animal products. I don’t eat meat anymore but still eat fish currently so far from vegan. My friend has rescue hens, so I use those eggs only.

I use vegan flora and vegan Hellman’s mayo (great btw)

The only thing I’m struggling with is cheese.

I have a lot of expensive leather jackets, handbags, which I won’t buy again.

I’ve a very expensive leather couch, it’s still in good condition, but I’ve decided that must go as I see it daily.

Took my Mum out for a carvery dinner and asked if there was a veggie choice or fish option. The chef answered seriously that there is loads of veg and potatoes! So a carvery dinner without the meat. Brilliant!

Btw, have heard the new vegan sausage rolls in Applegreen area great!

Thelonious Monk

Vegan flora is made with palm oil, I think we're supposed to avoid that

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Vegan flora is made with palm oil, I think we're supposed to avoid that

Here you go. Good general background on the issues. I'm always surprised when people dont seem to be aware of this issue. But no matter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/39492207

anewme

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Vegan flora is made with palm oil, I think we're supposed to avoid that

Must look into that. I use the Pure Vegan spread as well.

That’s my point about it being a slow considered switch from me.

The Sun today had a video iRish calves (2-3 weeks old) being exported and the cruelty inflicted in them as they passed through the port of Cherbourg. I think arrests have been made. I can’t read it, but even the headline brings home to me that I won’t eat meat again.

auspicious

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Vegan flora is made with palm oil, I think we're supposed to avoid that

Avoid it. Wilmar supplies this palm oil and their record is shown in a poor light.

PDF:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://corporateaccountability.squarespace.com/s/NJM08_wilmar-tx4y.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi54PPI04fiAhUpSxUIHbU5Dh8QFjANegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0Xk0TUY51qJBoRKSMx0ecE