Rise of Vegetarian/Veganism

auspicious

anewme wrote: »

I’m slowly switching from animal products. I don’t eat meat anymore but still eat fish currently so far from vegan. My friend has rescue hens, so I use those eggs only.

Hens required a lot of calcium to produce their eggs. If they are lacking, they should be given a fortified feed. It can take a toll on their bones. You can also feed the crushed and baked shells back to them.

anewme

auspicious wrote: »

Hens required a lot of calcium to produce their eggs. If they are lacking, they should be given a fortified feed. It can take a toll on their bones. You can also feed the crushed and baked shells back to them.

When he git then, they had been in a battery farm, and they were scaldy yokes with no feathers, now they are beautiful, cheeky with a personality of their own. He keeps sheep too, they eventually go to market. But they have a good life in the interim. I think if I knew all animals were treated like that, I might not have given up meat, or maybe not, but there’s too many questions over quality of produce, that it’s a race to the bottom. How can a chicken retail for 2.99, shortcuts have been taken somewhere?


When I did eat meat, I used to buy my Xmas Turkey from a local free range farm. The farmer told me he paid more for the chicks, than a frozen turkey retailed for.

gozunda

anewme wrote: »

When he git then, they had been in a battery farm, and they were scaldy yokes with no feathers, now they are beautiful, cheeky with a personality of their own. He keeps sheep too, they eventually go to market. But they have a good life in the interim. I think if I knew all animals were treated like that, I might not have given up meat, or maybe not, but there’s too many questions over quality of produce, that it’s a race to the bottom. How can a chicken retail for 2.99, shortcuts have been taken somewhere?When I did eat meat, I used to buy my Xmas Turkey from a local free range farm. The farmer told me he paid more for the chicks, than a frozen turkey retailed for.

It is always good to produce or source your food locally where possible. Many of the issues of food produced at a distance are valid for both veg*n and normal diets.

auspicious

anewme wrote: »

When he git then, they had been in a battery farm, and they were scaldy yokes with no feathers, now they are beautiful, cheeky with a personality of their own. He keeps sheep too, they eventually go to market. But they have a good life in the interim. I think if I knew all animals were treated like that, I might not have given up meat, or maybe not, but there’s too many questions over quality of produce, that it’s a race to the bottom. How can a chicken retail for 2.99, shortcuts have been taken somewhere?


When I did eat meat, I used to buy my Xmas Turkey from a local free range farm. The farmer told me he paid more for the chicks, than a frozen turkey retailed for.

My earlier post regarding calcium (maybe your friend already knew this idk) was some advice for the welfare of the animals if it's insisted upon, and only if, consuming the eggs of the rescued birds.
As a vegan I am not about animal welfare. I see welfare as a means to make consumers more comfortable consuming animal products.

Even though the hens were rescued and enjoy a nice life now, taking the eggs to eat just continues the purpose they were bred for. It is still benefiting from the initial harm.
Having these 'happy' eggs may and probably lessens intolerance to having eggs when eating out, where those eggs are a product of mass production and the terrible conditions that entails.
What I'm trying to say is an exception invites more exceptions.
Imo they are fruits of the poisionous tree
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree&ved=2ahUKEwiR2rPmnIjiAhWiuXEKHanoC1QQFjADegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw3oK7ZN4BTOsdUJxyWT165I

I know you are transitioning as you said and good luck but this post is just to fully expain the thoughts behind what I said.

kowloon

I'll be first in line for a synthetic or plant based meat substitute that tastes the same, until then I'll continue eating meat. If I can't have milk in my tea I might die.

gozunda

auspicious wrote: »

My earlier post regarding calcium (maybe your friend already knew this idk) was some advice for the welfare of the animals if it's insisted upon, and only if, consuming the eggs of the rescued birds.
As a vegan I am not about animal welfare. I see welfare as a means to make consumers more comfortable consuming animal products.
Even though the hens were rescued and enjoy a nice life now, taking the eggs to eat just continues the purpose they were bred for. It is still benefiting from the initial harm.

I would strongly disagree that the issue that animal welfare somehow should not be supported. Many veg*n campaigners use issues of alleged poor welfare to promote their ideas. Video footage (and I'm thinking of the fairly recent invasion of a pig farm in the UK by a group of campaigners) was broadcast using highly emotive imagery and language. However the video was not created with the aim of improving the conditions or welfare of these animals. Rather the animals became bit players in a drama played out to promote the aims of veganism.

Animal welfare is very important no matter whatever anyone choses to eat imo. Welfare is not "a means to make consumers more comfortable consuming animal products". Animal welfare is enshrined in law and provides for the proper treatment and care of animals both domestic and wild. Turning the tables and blaming farmers or others for poor animal welfare conditions and then not supporting animal welfare is at best contradictory and makes no sense whatsoever.

Dakota Dan

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

People who get annoyed about the increasing popularity of vegetarianism/veganism are every bit as tiresome as militant vegans.

It’s isn't a problem because 84% of vegetarians and vegans go back to eating mea.

Dakota Dan

Still waters wrote: »

It's amusing to read the farmers on the farming forum complaining about the rise in vegetarians, youd think they were dependent on every human alive eating 3 steaks a day when in reality blaming the few vegetarians for their problems is like blaming a turf fire in connemara on global warming

In truth we would probably all be a lot healthier if we cut down the amount of meat and ate more veg and fruit

Farming a small farm here so I'm all for more money for meat but I don't see a healthy future in the mass production of animals for the slaughter houses

Your farming in Ireland and you don’t know what we call slaughter houses in Ireland?

Dakota Dan

Pkiernan wrote: »

It's mostly the socially retarded and those on the lower end of the IQ scale that slag off veggies and vegans.

That comment doesn’t do your intelligence any favours.

silverharp

auspicious wrote: »

Personally I only take veg1 supplement from the Vegan Soceity. It contains the D3, B12, and iodine I need regularly, amongst others.
I get my omega 3 from walnuts, kidney beans, chia seeds, flax seeds and many other sources.
Selenium from brazil nuts, chia seeds, brown rice etc. You can also get B12 from fortified foods and nooch.

70% of Europeans and infants worldwide are deficient in Vit D.
2 billion people are deficient in iodine worldwide.
Ireland is one of the most selenium deficient countries in the world.


Ruminants obtain B12 from anaerobic bateria in soil but to properly synthesize it they require cobalt supplements as many soils are low in it.
Cobalt B12 supplements for cattle include selenium amongst others.

Adults over the age of 50 who have atrophic gastritis (their stomach isn’t making as much acid) may not absorb B12 as well. This accounts for the majority of deficiency in older adults. Because atrophic gastritis may be relatively common, a B12 supplement or fortified foods are recommended by the Institute of Medicine for all adults over age 50, regardless of diet.
- nutritionstudies.org

It just add another level of complication , if there were 2 fruits that contained mince beef and eggs they would be super foods in the vegan world.

Here is the thing, its an experiment , there aren't 3 generations of cradle to grave vegans. Most vegans drift in an out in adulthood , had mothers that weren't vegan.

auspicious

silverharp wrote: »

It just add another level of complication , if there were 2 fruits that contained mince beef and eggs they would be super foods in the vegan world.

Here is the thing, its an experiment , there aren't 3 generations of cradle to grave vegans. Most vegans drift in an out in adulthood , had mothers that weren't vegan.

Eggs for example, if they are not even allowed to be labelled healthy by regulatory bodies today because of their high levels of saturated fat and especially cholesterol then I'm sure the fruit hypothesis doesn't work.

There's good anecdotal evidence of happy healthy newborn vegan babies.
The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics the worlds largest organisation of professionals holding undergraduate and advanced degrees in nutrition and dietetics and includes many many meat eaters I'm sure say a well planned and balanced vegan diet is adequate for all stages of life.

gozunda

auspicious wrote: »

Eggs for example, if they are not even allowed to be labelled healthy by regulatory bodies today because of their high levels of saturated fat and especially cholesterol then I'm sure the fruit hypothesis doesn't work.There's good anecdotal evidence of happy healthy newborn vegan babies.The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics the worlds largest organisation of professionals holding undergraduate and advanced degrees in nutrition and dietetics and includes many many meat eaters I'm sure say a well planned and balanced vegan diet is adequate for all stages of life.

Seriously auspicious you need to put down the booklet...

In the US - regulations on foodstuffs prohibit the use of endorsements on food. End of story.

The rest if what you wrote about eggs is untrue and misinformation.

This from the NHS website

Eggs

Eggs and your diet
Eggs are nutritious – they're a source of:

protein
vitamin D
vitamin Avitamin B2
vitamin B12
folate
iodine

How many eggs is it safe to eat?
There is no recommended limit on how many eggs people should eat.

Eggs can be enjoyed as part of a healthy, balanced diet, but it's best to cook them without adding salt or fat. For example:
boiled or poached, without added salt scrambled without butter and using low-fat milk instead of cream

Eggs and cholesterol

Although eggs contain some cholesterol, the amount of saturated fat we eat has more of an effect on the amount of cholesterol in our blood than the cholesterol we get from eating eggs.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/eggs-nutrition/

You may also want to detail that the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics is a private lobby group in the US which was co founded by member of the Church of Seventh Day Aventists who promote veg*n diets as part of their belief system.

The advisory about diets you include above comes from a paper the authors of which are veg*n (one is also a seventh day adventist).

dodderangler

Couldn’t care what they do. You want to be vegan fine. No problem I won’t judge. But what the fück gives them the right to judge me on what I eat? That’s my biggest problem with them.

Thelonious Monk

dodderangler wrote: »

Couldn’t care what they do. You want to be vegan fine. No problem I won’t judge. But what the fück gives them the right to judge me on what I eat? That’s my biggest problem with them.

You don't care what they do but you have a big problem with them.

dodderangler

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You don't care what they do but you have a big problem with them.

Exactly. I don’t care what a vegan does. But don’t judge me on what I eat. That’s my only issue. As I said. I don’t care.

B0jangles

I'm neither a vegetarian or a vegan but even I've noticed the crazy defensiveness/aggression some posters here have whenever the topic comes up.

Vegans and vegetarians aren't come up to you and slap the burger out of your hands; you're totally free to eat as much meat and dairy as you want. At the same time, no-one is obliged to buy your produce just because you happen to be a meat/dairy farmer.

No-one owes you a living.

dodderangler

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm neither a vegetarian or a vegan but even I've noticed the crazy defensiveness/aggression some posters here have whenever the topic comes up.

Vegans and vegetarians aren't come up to you and slap the burger out of your hands; you're totally free to eat as much meat and dairy as you want. At the same time, no-one is obliged to buy your produce just because you happen to be a meat/dairy farmer.

No-one owes you a living.

And what about us who hunt our own meat. According to vegans we are the worst.
Satan I was called. And a homicidal maniac.
Best one was I am a future murderer.

silverharp

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm neither a vegetarian or a vegan but even I've noticed the crazy defensiveness/aggression some posters here have whenever the topic comes up.

Vegans and vegetarians aren't come up to you and slap the burger out of your hands; you're totally free to eat as much meat and dairy as you want. At the same time, no-one is obliged to buy your produce just because you happen to be a meat/dairy farmer.

No-one owes you a living.

However vegan influencers on Instagram and Youtube are a curse often promoting crazy to venerable teenagers, also vegans don't just leave well enough alone, they are like the "Russian bots" of the food world. If they stuck to an ethical position you could take or leave it on their merits but they seem to have a disproportionate influence when it comes to talking about food in terms of health.

silverharp

dodderangler wrote: »

And what about us who hunt our own meat. According to vegans we are the worst.
Satan I was called. And a homicidal maniac.
Best one was I am a future murderer.

being called a carnist is another one

Deebles McBeebles

Seems a fitting place to post this.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/ispca-calls-for-immediate-suspension-of-calf-exports-38087589.html

Thelonious Monk

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Seems a fitting place to post this.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/ispca-calls-for-immediate-suspension-of-calf-exports-38087589.html

That is just heartbreaking. To think the poor things are shipped around like that to be treated horribly and slaughtered for veal. Who the f*ck would even want to eat veal?

Deebles McBeebles

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That is just heartbreaking. To think the poor things are shipped around like that to be treated horribly and slaughtered for veal. Who the f*ck would even want to eat veal?

Poor calf who couldn't even walk after being stamped on. Disgusting excuse for human beings.

dodderangler

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Seems a fitting place to post this.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/ispca-calls-for-immediate-suspension-of-calf-exports-38087589.html

So you’re against guns and against eating meat.
Wow you sound like loads of fun at a party.
Guess we can serve pigs in blankets even though it’s dead meat at least it’s gonna be warm and cosy.

Thelonious Monk

dodderangler wrote: »

So you’re against guns and against eating meat.
Wow you sound like loads of fun at a party.
Guess we can serve pigs in blankets even though it’s dead meat at least it’s gonna be warm and cosy.

And people keep saying it's the vegans who are the ones acting up. From what I see it's meat eaters who have a problem with other people's diets, not vegetarians and vegans.

dodderangler

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

And people keep saying it's the vegans who are the ones acting up. From what I see it's meat eaters who have a problem with other people's diets, not vegetarians and vegans.

Yeah because meat eaters are out there protesting and screaming at people.
Interesting

Deebles McBeebles

dodderangler wrote: »

So you’re against guns and against eating meat.
Wow you sound like loads of fun at a party.
Guess we can serve pigs in blankets even though it’s dead meat at least it’s gonna be warm and cosy.

And you like guns in teachers hands and animal cruelty? Shock horror.

No need to bring my views in from other threads because you cant come up with a coherent argument for either. Your posts are ridiculous at best.

Thelonious Monk

dodderangler wrote: »

Yeah because meat eaters are out there protesting and screaming at people.
Interesting

Are they the ones who were shouting abuse at the Taoiseach last week?

dodderangler

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

And you like guns in teachers hands and animal cruelty? Shock horror.

No need to bring my views in from other threads because you cant come up with a coherent argument for either. Your posts are ridiculous at best.

Who said I like animal cruelty. Show me where I said that??
Because not once didn’t I say it. And yes I approve of it. If it stop soon some idiot with a gun shooting up a school then yes give the teachers protection to stop them.
Seriously you have me grinning every time you reply. It’s one laugh after another. Lack off meat In your diet may be the result of your posts being hysterical

Deebles McBeebles

dodderangler wrote: »

Who said I like animal cruelty. Show me where I said that??
Because not once didn’t I say it. And yes I approve of it. If it stop soon some idiot with a gun shooting up a school then yes give the teachers protection to stop them.
Seriously you have me grinning every time you reply. It’s one laugh after another. Lack off meat In your diet may be the result of your posts being hysterical

I don't think you're grinning D. Not exactly the vibe you give off.

auspicious

As vegans we don't see the difference between cats and dogs and domesticated farm animals. Animals of all types are kept by people as pets obviously.
All animals have the capacity to show love and be pets.
(And no, I wouldn't let a crocodile sit on my lap.)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WYiQamYK9eA

pheasant tail

dodderangler wrote: »

So you’re against guns and against eating meat.
Wow you sound like loads of fun at a party.
Guess we can serve pigs in blankets even though it’s dead meat at least it’s gonna be warm and cosy.

Guns and eating meat means animals unnecessarily suffering and dying for our own selfish enjoyment! Animals dying when they don’t want to die.

gozunda

auspicious wrote: »

As vegans we don't see the difference between cats and dogs and domesticated farm animals. Animals of all types are kept by people as pets obviously.
All animals have the capacity to show love and be pets.(And no, I wouldn't let a crocodile sit on my lap.)

This is one of the biggest issues tbh.

Veganism promotes the ultimate idea that all domestic (pets) and farmed animals will be eventually wipped of the face of the earth on the basis that they are human creations and will not be required.

Some of the pushers and thinkers behind the movement are also advocating the eradication of all meat eating wild species - in order to end 'Wild Animal Suffering' such as animals eating other animals. This idea now has mainstream acceptance. Crazy as it is imo.

PETA in the US are already practicing this policy through a programme of actively killing animals / euthanasia - whether or not an animal is being cared for or otherwise. This involves taking of peoples pets and killing them in some cases in the US.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/killing-animals-petas-open-secret_b_59e78243e4b0e60c4aa36711

pheasant tail

Gozunda, where are you getting this from about vegans wanting wild animals that eat other animals wiped out??? And that this is now widely accepted.... Wild animals, like a lion for example, will kill and eat other wild animals to survive, for food, they have no choice. That it not what veganism is about!

Thelonious Monk

pheasant tail wrote: »

Gozunda, where are you getting this from about vegans wanting wild animals that eat other animals wiped out??? And that this is now widely accepted.... Wild animals, like a lion for example, will kill and eat other wild animals to survive, for food, they have no choice. That it not what veganism is about!

I know a couple of vegans and I am not far off being one myself but I've never heard this either. Like people want to start feeding lions linda mccartney burgers instead of gazelles, lol.

dodderangler

pheasant tail wrote: »

Guns and eating meat means animals unnecessarily suffering and dying for our own selfish enjoyment! Animals dying when they don’t want to die.

Biggest load of horseshït
Animals are not like us. They don’t do emotion like us. Get over it.

gozunda

pheasant tail wrote: »

Gozunda, where are you getting this from about vegans wanting wild animals that eat other animals wiped out??? And that this is now widely accepted.... Wild animals, like a lion for example, will kill and eat other wild animals to survive, for food, they have no choice. That it not what veganism is about!

Btw I do not wish to offend anyone - but these ideas are now fairly widespread. Do a search for 'Wild Animal Suffering" to see what I'm referring to.

I've been told many times that the vegan movement is abolitionist and doesnt support animal welfare - ie all farm animals should die out / be eradicated because without animal farming these animals wouldn't exist. As for pets - see the PETA news story link above on their policy of pets being taken and killed.

I took a look into this - after coming across a couple of articles and reports. I found that the 'Wild Animal Suffering' (WAS) movement is widespread with a range of dedicated groups including academics and other supporters who are fairly vocal and bizarrely advocate for this.

These are two quotes selected from 2 advocate groups of 'WAS'

The majority of the planet's 50,000 or so vertebrate species are vegetarian. But among the minority of carnivorous species are some of the best known creatures on the planet. Should these serial killers be permitted to prey on other sentient beings indefinitely?

https://foundational-research.org/the-importance-of-wild-animal-suffering/

It's crucial that at some point the animal-rights movement moves beyond farm, laboratory, and companion animals. The scale of brutality in nature is too vast to ignore, and humans have an obligation to exercise their cosmically rare position as both intelligent and empathetic creatures to reduce suffering in the wild as much as they can.

https://www.hedweb.com/abolitionist-project/reprogramming-predators.html

One of the main advocates for this is a well known academic and vegsn activist (btw no I'm not going to name names).

And no I don't agree with any of it. Some may say its envisoning a time in the future. I'd would reply that 100 years ago no one could see the movement against agriculture. We now have govegan billboards pushing this idea "there is no right way to kill someone who wants to live". Funnily enough this idea is also used in the literature to support the eradication / re-engineering of wild predators and any species who eat meat according to the WAS movement...

gozunda

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm neither a vegetarian or a vegan but even I've noticed the crazy defensiveness/aggression some posters here have whenever the topic comes up.
Vegans and vegetarians aren't come up to you and slap the burger out of your hands; you're totally free to eat as much meat and dairy as you want. At the same time, no-one is obliged to buy your produce just because you happen to be a meat/dairy farmer. No-one owes you a living.

Really?

This in a comment in the Notre Dame Cathedral Fire thread

B0jangles wrote: »

Now I'm tempted to donate with the sole proviso that a portion of the money goes towards putting up a big plaque promoting veganism.

You might remember because I asked you in a PM - rather than derail the thread, why was there a need for that ? No answer?

Seriously what's with the 'aggression' thing you're on about? Ok let's look at what you are saying here.

Very few if any on this thread are being defensive / aggressive imo. There have been a few of the usual stupidity saying 'mmm burger' or whatever and then there has been other ****e and I've called some of this out. And funnily enough I and some others have been baraged by a small number of hafkwits because dared to be involved in this discussion and voice opinion.

Btw my interest lies in the area of food, agriculture and animals. I regularly engage in discussion - even on these subjects in the v&v forum. I don't give a fuk what anyone eats - but I'm not afraid to point out if what is said about farm animals and food is wrong. And yet some dislike anyone pointing this out. Go figure!

And again if some don't like that - tough. Theres no apology. But let's look at whose do throw **** around here! In my experience the same lot again and again and again. This type of crap ain't funny either. Online there has been an increase in attacks by extremist veg*ns. A number of individuals involved in farming and food production have even received death threats online from these eejits and imo this ****e is growing. So tell us again where the 'crazy defensiveness/aggression is coming from.

But don't give me that stupid rubbish that
"No-one owes you a living. What a stupid ignorant thing to say. No one owes you a living either but like the rest of us - everyone gets the same access to Boards - like it or not. :mad:

And just before someone makes the the usual smart alec reply with "aww de poor farmers" or the constant attacks directed at farmers and food producers in these threads - as far as I'm concerned and to anyone and everyone - If maintaining courtesy, respect, and exercising tolerance of opposing views is difficult for you, then a public forum format may not be the best fit.

Edit: I rest my case > T Monk LOLWTF! "Nuts" is right

Thelonious Monk

You sent me a message saying implying I was gay 2 days ago Gozunda because I'm posting in the same threads as you. And you're PMing other people too. And then you write all that above. You're nuts!

pheasant tail

Gozunda, I don’t have the will nor time to go reading through all that and posting links for you onto this. But in fairness, I asked you what you where on about and you answered that, fair enough. I had never heard off that and to say that that is a widespread view for many vegans is simply not true. I had never even heard off that. Comparing what we as humans are needlessly doing to animals should never be said in the same breath as what goes on in nature and is just an argument to try and justify our own actions and make ourselves feel better. Just because animals don’t share the same moral agency as us does not equate to them not having moral value and the right to life.

pheasant tail

dodderangler wrote: »

Biggest load of horseshït
Animals are not like us. They don’t do emotion like us. Get over it.

But animals do have emotions, of course they do, their sentient beings, just like us. But some with different levels of consciousness of course. But they can still feel pain..

fryup

anyone see primetime tonight with those calves getting whacked across the nose

gozunda

pheasant tail wrote: »

Gozunda, I don’t have the will nor time to go reading through all that and posting links for you onto this. But in fairness, I asked you what you where on about and you answered that, fair enough. I had never heard off that and to say that that is a widespread view for many vegans is simply not true. I had never even heard off that. Comparing what we as humans are needlessly doing to animals should never be said in the same breath as what goes on in nature and is just an argument to try and justify our own actions and make ourselves feel better. Just because animals don’t share the same moral agency as us does not equate to them not having moral value and the right to life.

No worries. It's something I've came across a fair bit tbh. Its widespread certainly. I had said the idea was promoted by "Some of the pushers and thinkers" - I do not believe all veg*ns either know of it or subscribe to it btw. But it is being seriously promoted. It struck me because of the wish to eradicate animals who eat meat/ change all wild animals into something they're not. As I said people have different beliefs and thats fair enough, but my own opinion is that all animals and humans have a lot in common. But no we're not the same. Treating and caring and protecting animals is very important imo as is good animal welfare.

What I don't support is the idea of the eradication of any species simply just because they do not share our moral beliefs or they are not wanted. That to me is too far tbh. And I do not wish to see a world with no domestic or farm animals - Imo they are as much as part of the world as we are. They are different and yes they have needs and we owe it to them to treat them as best we can imo. However I do not see that as contradictory to eating meat dairy etc and little different to animals eating other animals - it's neither good or bad. It is a part of ecology and entropy where each organism is part of the recycling of energy. That's just my 2 cents. Thanks.

dodderangler

pheasant tail wrote: »

But animals do have emotions, of course they do, their sentient beings, just like us. But some with different levels of consciousness of course. But they can still feel pain..

No they don’t. End of story. They don’t show same emotions as us.

prinzeugen

auspicious wrote: »

Eggs for example, if they are not even allowed to be labelled healthy by regulatory bodies today because of their high levels of saturated fat and especially cholesterol then I'm sure the fruit hypothesis doesn't work.

There's good anecdotal evidence of happy healthy newborn vegan babies.
The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics the worlds largest organisation of professionals holding undergraduate and advanced degrees in nutrition and dietetics and includes many many meat eaters I'm sure say a well planned and balanced vegan diet is adequate for all stages of life.

Are you still posting this fake guff? There has been cases (and prosecutions) in the UK of parents forcing a vegan diet on children. Its called wilful neglect. They were denying the kids of vital nutrients. The kids ended up in foster care.

Likewise it is now law in the UK that anyone that feeds a cat or dog a vegan diet can be done for animal cruelty.

Humans have never had a 100% vegan diet. Do it if YOU want, but please do not tell the rest of us it is the future.

markodaly

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

And people keep saying it's the vegans who are the ones acting up. From what I see it's meat eaters who have a problem with other people's diets, not vegetarians and vegans.

Not meat eaters per say, it is a subset of meat eaters, many of them farmers who get all upity when someone declares they are going to eat less or no meat.

This is the trend worldwide anyway. Diary consumption is declining and has been for decades. Meat consumption is also declining in many countries.

If you want an example of the insecurity on display, have a google on what Leo Varadkar said in relation to his own meat eating habits and the reaction of the IFA to that.
Also, remember that the IFA is one if not the most powerful lobbyist in Ireland.

As someone said, no one owes you a living and if you go out of business because your product is not as much in demand, then tough titties. That is the Free Market at work.

Ave Sodalis

I enjoy good food, regardless of whether it contains meat or not. The rise of vegetarians and vegans means that there are more delicious recipes out there. I do only use free range eggs, and I don't really eat pork.

I am being referred to a dietician, however, for a health related diet that, from a quick reading of it, is not vegetarian friendly. No beans or lentils or wheat, and a large proportion of fruit and veg are left out.

As regards to who is more annoying, I worked part time in a restaurant so I am slightly biased. Vegans and people who do not really have a food intolerance/allergy are the worst customers. Vegetarians and people who have a genuine food intolerance/allergy seem more capable of reading a menu. The latter generally only mentioned it for the sake of safety, which they absolutely should do. The former had me running in and out of the kitchen with a billion different questions, despite there being a dedicated vegan/vegetarian menu and all the allergen information was on the menus. I even had one vegan give me hell about the fact there was pasta on the dedicated menu, and no amount of pointing out that it was for both vegans and vegetarians was going to appease this person. Again though, this has made me slightly biased against vegans.

B0jangles

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You sent me a message saying implying I was gay 2 days ago Gozunda because I'm posting in the same threads as you. And you're PMing other people too. And then you write all that above. You're nuts!

You got one too?


Now I feel less special

JeffKenna

markodaly wrote: »

Not meat eaters per say, it is a subset of meat eaters, many of them farmers who get all upity when someone declares they are going to eat less or no meat.

This is the trend worldwide anyway. Diary consumption is declining and has been for decades. Meat consumption is also declining in many countries.

If you want an example of the insecurity on display, have a google on what Leo Varadkar said in relation to his own meat eating habits and the reaction of the IFA to that.
Also, remember that the IFA is one if not the most powerful lobbyist in Ireland.

As someone said, no one owes you a living and if you go out of business because your product is not as much in demand, then tough titties. That is the Free Market at work.

Are you just making up facts?

Worldwide dairy consumption is on an upward trend with continued growth expected over the next number of years.

markodaly

JeffKenna wrote: »

Are you just making up facts?

Worldwide dairy consumption is on an upward trend with continued growth expected over the next number of years.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-17/america-is-drowning-in-milk-nobody-wants

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dairy-farmers-hit-hard-by-declining-milk-demand

stefanovich

Fact is, we'd all be a bit healthier if we ate less dairy and meat. I know Irish farmers don't like this, and RTE seem to give them a platform, but they are interested in their own business surviving and that is all.