Rise of Vegetarian/Veganism

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Why is there suddenly a Taboo about killing animals?

I mean we have to.

TBH animal abuse gets more social media space than human rights abuses.

They remove organs forcible from people in china with no anesthetic. Its never in the press.

Then start a thread about it.

El_Duderino 09

gozunda wrote: »

Btw that was simply a distillation of the point you made several times - that you bizarrely believe anyone with whom you disagree is 'attacking' (not a direct quote btw) . News is - it's not. And surprise you've just done it again - and that indeed is uni-directional. You can check - the issues of food and farming are the ones I'm primarily interested in and unlike your comments I do not suggest that 'people' are wrong or ridicule them by pointing to some ramdomer on the internet (the same as painted by you as ultra right wing extremist). Facts may be incorrect and I prefer to deal with that rather than mud slinging by insinuation. And btw I dont care what anyone eats - I simply don't like misinformation. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of that.

The facts and references as given in my comments stand and it's quite intersting that you cannot discuss those issues. Anyway I'll leave with this from boards FAQ. I've always found it to be very helpful as a simple pointer for good discussion. But maybe that's just me. I'll leave you at it.

LOL. I'll wait until I see you make a single point that didn't sound like a meat farming industry lobbyist, but don't worry, I won't hold my breath.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Then start a thread about it.

Stop.

LOL. I'll wait until I see you make a single point that didn't sound like a meat farming industry lobbyist, but don't worry, I won't hold my breath.

What does that sound like exactly? I mean what even is that? Is it a real thing?

I mean is the vegan lobbyist even a real thing or is this just media frenzy to narrate a story as having two distinct sides?

ILoveYourVibes

The representation of animal abuse on social media is disproportionate to the actual problem. Its way over blown these days.

El_Duderino 09

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Stop.



What does that sound like exactly? I mean what even is that? Is it a real thing?

I mean is the vegan lobbyist even a real thing or is this just media frenzy to narrate a story as having two distinct sides?

The poster pretends to be naively dispelling misinformation, without agenda. In reality they just oppose anything that doesn't suit the meat farming industry. I've no idea about vegan lobby but I imagine it exists. The meat industry lobby is well established. They get millions in government handouts for the meat farming industry. That doesn't happen without lobbying.

ILoveYourVibes

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The poster pretends to be naively dispelling misinformation, without agenda. In reality they just oppose anything that doesn't suit the meat farming industry. I've no idea about vegan lobby.

I am debunking the whole vegan/meat lobby conspiracy agenda.

And what's wrong with the meat farming industry? Nothing in this country hardly.

Xcellor

There are compelling reasons to be vegetarian/vegan - even if you only agree partially with one of the following

1) Health - A vegan diet has been shown to have positive health impacts.

2) Environment - Animal agriculture at the scale required to feed the population is hugely destructive.

3) Ethics - When you don't need to kill sentient beings to survive and thrive why would you?

Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics states (the largest body of nutrition experts in the world.)

.. that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.

These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage.

Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortified foods or supplements.

- https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310746170_Position_of_the_Academy_of_Nutrition_and_Dietetics_Vegetarian_Diets

Taking my own personal experience. I was told I needed to go on medication for blood pressure and cholesterol. 2 years on a vegan diet, no pills and both are normal, the change in cholesterol was so dramatic that I was asked what medication I was put on, the nurse couldn't believe that diet had made such a large difference. I was told these conditions just "run in the family" since my grandparents/uncles/parents were all medicated for blood pressure / diabetes / dementia...

So I'd say to anyone suffering from these so called "runs in the family diseases" and are popping pills; even if you don't care about environment or ethics - you potentially hold the key to changing your health.

El_Duderino 09

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am debunking the whole vegan/meat lobby conspiracy agenda.

And what's wrong with the meat farming industry? Nothing in this country hardly.

You think lobbying is a Conspiracy theory? There are loads of lobbies in government. The farming lobbyists are string and we'll established. I've no idea if the vegans have established lobbyists. It's really not a Conspiracy theory.

And lobbys aren't a problem.. Pretending to be an honest broker while only supporting one agenda is dishonest and should be highlighted to make sure nobody is fooled into thinking they're getting a fair analysis.

Farmers lobbys were second most active in ireal d in 2017.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/business-lobbyists-ireland-3-4100109-Jul2018/%3Famp%3D1

gozunda

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

LOL. I'll wait until I see you make a single point that didn't sound like a meat farming industry lobbyist, but don't worry, I won't hold my breath.

Truely deeply sad. Can't or deliberatly wont engage in the discussion? Throws ****e instead. You loose. Pathetic really. But as you said "LOL"...

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The poster pretends to be naively dispelling misinformation, without agenda. In reality they just oppose anything that doesn't suit the meat farming industry. I've no idea about vegan lobby but I imagine it exists. The meat industry lobby is well established. They get millions in government handouts for the meat farming industry. That doesn't happen without lobbying.

Your comments do come across as seriously paranoid and delusional at best. However it's the utter bile though that really standsout above everything else tbh. This is a discussion board. Deal with it ...

emaherx

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They get millions in government handouts for the meat farming industry. That doesn't happen without lobbying.

Do you think this is money lost?

https://www.teagasc.ie/rural-economy/rural-economy/agri-food-business/agriculture-in-ireland/

The agri-food sector in Ireland in 2016 generated 7% of gross value added (€13.9 billion), 9.8% of Ireland’s merchandise exports and provided 8.5% of national employment. When employment in inputs, processing and marketing is included, the agri-food sector accounts for almost 10% of employment.

Effects

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They remove organs forcible from people in china with no anesthetic. Its never in the press.

Sure they do.

El_Duderino 09

emaherx wrote: »

Do you think this is money lost?

https://www.teagasc.ie/rural-economy/rural-economy/agri-food-business/agriculture-in-ireland/

Ok. I have no real issues with lobbys. Lobbys register and do their job. That's fine. Pretending to be an honest bottler and behaving like a lobby is dishonest.

I don't object to the money the industry gets. That's not my point at all.

ILoveYourVibes

Effects wrote: »

Sure they do.

You are very naive.

A UK tribunal has confirmed it. Its been well reported in Hong Kong. A little in the west but not much.

From the guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes

An independent tribunal sitting in London has concluded that the killing of detainees in China for organ transplants is continuing, and victims include imprisoned followers of the Falun Gong movement.
The China Tribunal, chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who was a prosecutor at the international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, said in a unanimous determination at the end of its hearings it was “certain that Falun Gong as a source - probably the principal source - of organs for forced organ harvesting”.

It is unquestionably true. Its estimated about 60 k people from the falun gong sect have died from forced organ harvesting for the organ harvesting tourist industry.

El_Duderino 09

[

gozunda wrote: »

Truely deeply sad. Can't or deliberatly wont engage in the discussion? Throws ****e instead. You loose. Pathetic really. But as you said "LOL"...



Your comments do come across as seriously paranoid and delusional at best. However it's the utter bile though that really standsout above everything else tbh. This is a discussion board. Deal with it ...

Like I said, I'll wait for you to say something that the meat farming industry lobby wouldn't agree with. Your claims to be an honest broker are guff.

I've no big problem with lobbys as long as they're upfront about their agenda.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You are very naive.

A UK tribunal has confirmed it. Its been well reported in Hong Kong. A little in the west but not much.

From the guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes



It is unquestionably true. Its estimated about 60 k people from the falun gong sect have died from forced organ harvesting for the organ harvesting tourist industry.

So start a thread about it.

Also, it’s not nice to insult people.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

[



Like I said, I'll wait for you to say something that the meat farming industry lobby wouldn't agree with. Your claims to be an honest broker are guff.

I've no big problem with lobbys as long as they're upfront about their agenda.

You often try and catch eels with oil on your hands ?

anewme

Deleted User wrote: »

So start a thread about it.

Also, it’s not nice to insult people.

Tired of all the threads being deflected and onto topics that are not relevant.

It's draining and is sucking the life out of boards.ie.

Must be great though to be an expert in every. single. topic. ever.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

So start a thread about it.

Also, it’s not nice to insult people.

That isn't an insult. Its an accurate observation.

I have started a thread on it. No one will post in it. Its in CA they care more about guinea pigs.

gozunda

Xcellor wrote: »

There are compelling reasons to be vegetarian/vegan - even if you only agree partially with one of the following1) Health - A vegan diet has been shown to have positive health impacts.2) Environment - Animal agriculture at the scale required to feed the population is hugely destructive. 3) Ethics - When you don't need to kill sentient beings to survive and thrive why would you?Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics states (the largest body of nutrition experts in the world.) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310746170_Position_of_the_Academy_of_Nutrition_and_Dietetics_Vegetarian_Diets
Taking my own personal experience. I was told I needed to go on medication for blood pressure and cholesterol. 2 years on a vegan diet, no pills and both are normal, the change in cholesterol was so dramatic that I was asked what medication I was put on, the nurse couldn't believe that diet had made such a large difference. I was told these conditions just "run in the family" since my grandparents / uncles/ parents were all medicated for blood pressure / diabetes / dementia... So I'd say to anyone suffering from these so called "runs in the family diseases" and are popping pills; even if you don't care about environment or ethics - you potentially hold the key to changing your health.

Why is that every single thread on the subject of diet or veganism or whatever gets one of these standard pieces of promotion presented as fact?

Not in order - but I'll deal with the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics first

The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly American Dietetic Association) is a private nutritional interest group in the US which was co founded by Lena Cooper who was an active Seventh Day Adventist - a group credited with the promotion of a plant based diets as part of their belief system.

The quote you use is from a paper from that group and is frequently used by vegan advocates to justify and promote vegan diets. A significant criticism of that document has been that both authors of that paper are vegan (one is also a seventh day adventist*). In addition it appears that majority of the reviewers of said paper are also vegan / vegetarian

Here's the nub of the issue explained ...https://letthemeatmeat.com/post/26647492370/final-thoughts-on-the-american-dietetic

As to the usual justification offered for veganism viz.

1) Health - A vegan diet has been shown to have positive health impacts

Many diets including those with meat and dairy have been shown to have "positive health impacts". A number of studies have mainly looked at vegetarian and whole food diets not 'vegan'. A 'vegan' diet like any other diet can be shockingly bad. A diet of coke and chips child be vegan - it would not be healthy

.2) Environment - Animal agriculture at the scale required to feed the population is hugely destructive.

All agriculture at the scale required to feed the human population is highly destructive. The more people there are - the worse that will be.

3) Ethics - When you don't need to kill sentient beings to survive and thrive why would you?

Whose ethics? Meat eating is part of entrophy and the recycling of nutrients in ecology. Many animals eat meat. Humans are also animals and as omnivores we benefit from a range of food sources. There is nothing 'unethical' about eating meat. End of story

Taking my own personal experience. I was told I needed to go on medication for blood pressure and cholesterol. 2 years on a vegan diet, no pills and both are normal, the change in cholesterol was so dramatic that I was asked what medication I was put on, the nurse couldn't believe that diet had made such a large difference. I was told these conditions just "run in the family" since my grandparents/uncles/paparents were all medicated for blood pressure / diabetes / dementia... So I'd say to anyone suffering from these so called "runs in the family diseases" and are popping pills; even if you don't care about environment or ethics - you potentially hold the key to changing your health

Personal anecdote is sadly a justification for nothing. I have a normal healthy diet - I have no issues with blood pressure or other ailments. I'm healthy and happy and do not need to make any change to my diet. But if I do I will seek advice from qualified medical professionals- and not randomoners on the internet promoting a lifestyle diet.

weisses

silverharp wrote: »

they have access to good quality and poor quality food, what is your point?

Yes and they did so 40 years ago.

You seem to think quality food equals eating meat seven days a week.

Thelonious Monk

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That isn't an insult. Its an accurate observation.

I have started a thread on it. No one will post in it. Its in CA they care more about guinea pigs.

What the f*ck are you on about?

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That isn't an insult. Its an accurate observation.

I have started a thread on it. No one will post in it. Its in CA they care more about guinea pigs.

‘You are very naive’ is downright insulting.

gozunda

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

And lobbys aren't a problem.. Pretending to be an honest broker while only supporting one agenda is dishonest and should be highlighted to make sure nobody is fooled into thinking they're getting a fair analysis.
..

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. I have no real issues with lobbys. Lobbys register and do their job. That's fine. Pretending to be an honest bottler and behaving like a lobby is dishonest.

I don't object to the money the industry gets. That's not my point at all.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Like I said, I'll wait for you to say something that the meat farming industry lobby wouldn't agree with. Your claims to be an honest broker are guff.
I've no big problem with lobbys as long as they're upfront about their agenda.

If you have a problem with any posts report them. Dont hide behind mealy mouthed claptrap.

weisses

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am debunking the whole vegan/meat lobby conspiracy agenda.

And what's wrong with the meat farming industry? Nothing in this country hardly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8375951

Tip of the iceberg ... It is there you only need to look for it

emaherx

weisses wrote: »

Yes and they did so 40 years ago.

You seem to think quality food equals eating meat seven days a week.

40 years ago most people ate meat 7 days a week also. Food (meat or plant based) has never been more affordable than it is now and that includes good healthy food and highly processed junk.

weisses

gozunda wrote: »

If you have a problem with my posts report them. Dont hide behind mealy mouthed claptrap.

The problem is your one sided claptrap approach in favor of meat/farmers etc ... You appear in almost every vegan/vegatarian threat lobbying for the meat industry .... Its pathetic

ILoveYourVibes

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What the f*ck are you on about?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058003770

You care about the treatment of animals? knock yourself out.

Interesting to see the lack of empathy compared to here though.

It just makes all the 'empathy' for animals seem so fake and shallow though.

gozunda

weisses wrote: »

The problem is your one sided claptrap approach in favor of meat/farmers etc ... You appear in almost every vegan/vegatarian threat lobbying for the meat industry .... Its pathetic

The problem is that anyone pointing out the misinformation and bs pushed about this subject is jumped upon. And yes you prove that point yet again.

My interest is in food and how it is produced and yes that's my interest just like those who post about football or whatever interests them.

Whsts obvious is that you advocate that others are not allowed to comment on such threads even where bs about food and farming is being peddled. Why is it that freedom of expression should only work for select groups?

Dont like the truth? Tough!

Edit: Btw since when is farming only the "meat industry" (sic)? Yet even more fanatical thinking. Tbh I wouldn't expect any less considering the appalling standard of discussion from the likes of the poster you've attempted to defend. But hey what new.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058003770

You care about the treatment of animals? knock yourself out.

Interesting to see the lack of empathy compared to here though.

It just makes all the 'empathy' for animals seem so fake and shallow though.

That’s great.

You can head off now and enjoy that thread.

No need to be banging on about it here.

weisses

emaherx wrote: »

40 years ago most people ate meat 7 days a week also. Food (meat or plant based) has never been more affordable than it is now and that includes good healthy food and highly processed junk.

https://ourworldindata.org/meat-and-seafood-production-consumption

So looking at the graph ... If people ate meat etc 7 days a week back then how much would they eat now ?? 60 million ton vs 300 million ton

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

No need to be banging on about it here.

The subject makes a point though.

There is no need for animals to be put on par with humans.

They already have far better treatment than humans in actual fact.

weisses

gozunda wrote: »

The problem is that anyone pointing out the misinformation and bs pushed about this subject is jumped upon. And yes you prove that point yet again.

My interest is in food and how it is produced and yes I have like those who post about football or whatever interets them - I comment on that.

Intersting that you advocate that others are not allowed to comment on such threads even where bs about food and farming is being peddled. Why is it that freedom of expression should only work for select groups?

Dont like the truth? Tough!

Your interest is in meat and while you at it have a go at almost everything plant based .... That is the truth

If I took your attitude on the various vegan threads to the farmers section of boards and advocate veganism over dairy/meat I would probably be banned

weisses

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There is no need for animals to be put on par with humans.

Correct ... In many instances I favor Animals over humans

weisses

weisses wrote: »

Your interest is in meat and while you at it have a go at almost everything plant based .... That is the truth

If I took your attitude on the various vegan threads to the farmers section of boards and advocate veganism over dairy/meat I would probably be banned

No probably about it.

Zero tolerance over there.

You’d be banned within hours.

Probably site banned too.

gozunda

weisses wrote: »

Your interest is in meat and while you at it have a go at almost everything plant based .... That is the truth
If I took your attitude on the various vegan threads to the farmers section of boards and advocate veganism over dairy/meat I would probably be banned

Nope. Wrong look at my comments. They are primarily is response to anti farming rubbish posted as fact. My interest is in food and its production- all kinds including arable and vegetable production. Farmers just dont keep animals or are you conveniently ignoring that to attack others?

Of note plenty of vegans post in F&F advocating their lifestyle. If you believe my posts are rude or insulting to you or anyone else then report them.

Otherwise you like a few others in this thread seek to continually shut down discussion. Why is that?

emaherx

weisses wrote: »

https://ourworldindata.org/meat-and-seafood-production-consumption

So looking at the graph ... If people ate meat etc 7 days a week back then how much would they eat now ?? 60 million ton vs 300 million ton

Global averages? Were your grandparents that you spoke of from Asia?

40 years ago most people in Europe ate meat daily.

According to your link around 60Kg per year versus the current 80Kg per year. So 20Kg difference per year is 54g less per day.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Again, we have to eat something. If everyone was vegan we wouldn't need to use as much land for our food though.



We import soy etc from abroad to feed Irish animals, twice as much as our neighbours do.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/we-depend-two-times-more-on-imported-animal-feed-than-our-neighbours-832683.html

This land could be used to grow food for human consumption instead of it having to go through animals first.

Again, I'll point out to you the difference between the land types and climates between Britain and Ireland. They would have a much larger percentage of grade 1 arable land than we do here in Ireland. As has already been pointed out numerous times, less than 20% of the Irish land base would be considered arable land and that is mostly concentrated along the southern and eastern sides of the country. The rest of Ireland has soil type, topographical, climatic, location and numerous other deficiencies that render it unsuitable for arable production.

That lower grade land can, however, grow copious amounts of grass. In fact, Ireland and NZ would have two of the best grass production areas i the world. No other crop comes within a distant roar of the suitability of those two countries to grow copious amounts of grass.

But if you feel you can grow other crops here, there's plenty of land out there for sale and lease that you can make your fortune on. The only request I would make is that you post here regularly on your journey, should be an interesting thread all by itself:)

Fourier wrote: »

What does sentient mean here?

Depending on the definition plants are argued to be sentient in recent research.

There's some very interesting research out there atm on plant sentience. What some would argue against is the diffuse element of it rather than the commonly understood centralised sentience. But the sentience itself is beyond doubt and the evidence is almost overwhelming at this stage.

Thelonious Monk

Can someone tell me how many cows is too many cows in ireland? I think we have nearly 7 million cows. Should the number be capped? Water usage methane river pollution etc are all happening because of cows, silage run off etc. And yes i know the water is filthy in dublin and we pump raw sewage into rivers but that's down to poor management and terrible infrastructure. If you say land isnt arrable it doesn't mean there should be cows there. 90% of beef and dairy is exported too its not like this is to feed our own.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Can someone tell me how many cows is too many cows in ireland? I think we have nearly 7 million cows. Should the number be capped? Water usage methane river pollution etc are all happening because of cows, silage run off etc. And yes i know the water is filthy in dublin and we pump raw sewage into rivers but that's down to poor management and terrible infrastructure. If you say land isnt arrable it doesn't mean there should be cows there. 90% of beef and dairy is exported too its not like this is to feed our own.

So we should stop all exports, seeing as we produce more than enough, viagra, Botox and pharma goods to suit the population size?

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Can someone tell me how many cows is too many cows in ireland? I think we have nearly 7 million cows. Should the number be capped? Water usage methane river pollution etc are all happening because of cows. If you say land isnt arrable it doesn't mean there should be cows there. 90% of beef and dairy is exported too its not like this is to feed our own.

Yeah. Do many Irish understand how much foreign imported meat they are eating ? Meat from Brazil, Thailand and Eastern Europe.

Doesn’t seem right the tax payers have the meat they subsidise exported and then they are buying the imported stuff.

Thelonious Monk

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

So we should stop all exports, seeing as we produce more than enough, viagra, Botox and pharma goods to suit the population size?

How many cows do you think is too many in ireland? Should there be a cap?
If pharma is wrecking the environment we should be looking at changing how things are done in that industry yes.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Can someone tell me how many cows is too many cows in ireland? I think we have nearly 7 million cows. Should the number be capped? Water usage methane river pollution etc are all happening because of cows, silage run off etc. And yes i know the water is filthy in dublin and we pump raw sewage into rivers but that's down to poor management and terrible infrastructure. If you say land isnt arrable it doesn't mean there should be cows there. 90% of beef and dairy is exported too its not like this is to feed our own.

7 million-ish cattle. 7 million cows would suggest a lot more cattle.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah. Do many Irish understand how much foreign imported meat they are eating ? Meat from Brazil, Thailand and Eastern Europe. Doesn’t seem right the tax payers have the meat they subsidise exported and then they are buying the imported stuff.

Yeah. Do many Irish (sic) understand how much foreign imported fruit and vegetables they are eating? Fruit and vegetables from Brazil, Morocco and other parts of Africa.

Doesn't seem right that those lobbying against all animal farming in Ireland are buying cheap imported foods often grown in places with few if any ethical or environmental standards.

And then there are the few who give out to those who choose to eat a normal diet for sometimes eating food not produced here...

You couldn't make it up tbh ...

ILoveYourVibes

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk
Can someone tell me how many cows is too many cows in ireland? I think we have nearly 7 million cows. Should the number be capped? Water usage methane river pollution etc are all happening because of cows. If you say land isnt arrable it doesn't mean there should be cows there. 90% of beef and dairy is exported too its not like this is to feed our own.

1 million beef suckler cows and 1.3 million dairy cows currently in Ireland.

That is almost two and half million.

Thelonious Monk

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

1 million beef suckler cows and 1.3 million dairy cows currently in Ireland.

That is almost two and half million.

The CSO says otherwise

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lsd/livestocksurveydecember2017/

I mean cattle

ILoveYourVibes

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The CSO says otherwise

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lsd/livestocksurveydecember2017/

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/want-to-know-how-many-dairy-cows-are-in-your-county/

Shrug. I got it from here.

Xcellor

gozunda wrote: »

Why is that every single thread on the subject of diet or veganism or whatever gets one of these standard pieces of promotion presented as fact?

Not in order - but I'll deal with the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics first

The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly American Dietetic Association) is a private nutritional interest group in the US which was co founded by Lena Cooper who was an active Seventh Day Adventist - a group credited with the promotion of a plant based diets as part of their belief system.

The quote you use is from a paper from that group and is frequently used by vegan advocates to justify and promote vegan diets. A significant criticism of that document has been that both authors of that paper are vegan (one is also a seventh day adventist*). In addition it appears that majority of the reviewers of said paper are also vegan / vegetarian

Here's the nub of the issue explained ...https://letthemeatmeat.com/post/26647492370/final-thoughts-on-the-american-dietetic

So what are you saying? This organization made up of thousands of practicing dieticians and nutritional experts accounts for nothing because a cofounder of the organization is vegan? Seventh day aventists are not exclusively vegan/vegetarian

Many diets including those with meat and dairy have been shown to have "positive health impacts". A number of studies have mainly looked at vegetarian and whole food diets not 'vegan'. A 'vegan' diet like any other diet can be shockingly bad. A diet of coke and chips child be vegan - it would not be healthy

The typical vegan diet is not one consisting of coke and chips. Unfortunately given the obesity / diabetes (even now in children) who are onmivores I believe it's more helpful to look at this rather than the coke and chips vegan.

I agree though that perhaps a diet that consisted of less than 10% animal protein/fat could be healthy but there are very few omnivores that don't consume animal protein/fat in every single meal. The traditional diet of Okinawa people for example might be a good omnivore diet to follow for better health outcomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet

Life expectancy has decreased recently though... I wonder why.

All agriculture at the scale required to feed the human population is highly destructive. The more people there are - the worse that will be.

So shouldn't we choose a system that does less destruction and can feed signifcantly more people?

Whose ethics? Meat eating is part of entrophy and the recycling of nutrients in ecology. Many animals eat meat. Humans are also animals and as omnivores we benefit from a range of food sources. There is nothing 'unethical' about eating meat. End of story

Yes ethics is a personal choice agreed.

Production of 90 billion land animals is not "recycling" come on! :rolleyes:

We are omnivores but we also have the ability to make choices. We can get all the benefit that meat provides without directly slaughtering sentient beings to get it.

Personal anecdote is sadly a justification for nothing. I have a normal healthy diet - I have no issues with blood pressure or other ailments. I'm healthy and happy and do not need to make any change to my diet. But if I do I will seek advice from qualified medical professionals- and not randomoners on the internet promoting a lifestyle diet.

Thankfully we dont have to rely exclusively on anecdotal "evidence" controlled randomized studies are helping to direct consensus and the evidence is increasing day by day...

BMI compared across omnivores / vegetarians and other groups.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671114/

Spoiler alert

Vegans have lowest BMI

ILoveYourVibes

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah. Do many Irish (sic) understand how much foreign imported fruit and vegetables they are eating? Fruit and vegetables from Brazil, Morocco and other parts of Africa.

I am sure they do. And I am sure some of them are meat eaters too.

Thelonious Monk

Id love for someone to tell me how many cattle is too many for ireland!

ILoveYourVibes

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Id love for someone to tell me how many cattle is too many for ireland!

I don't know I am no expert on these things.