"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the S" - Spoilers post 2 fo

Tazzimus

The Khalasar was supposed to be 100k so 50k would make sense if half survived.
Same with the Unsullied, that leaves about 4k ish, not including the ones that haven't completed their training when she got them.

Which means she has 50k+ of an army, plus a dragon, plus whatever Jon brought with him.

How they survived is another thing though..

MisterAnarchy

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Most annoying part of the episode I think. Despite there being about 50 people left alive that we could see in the ruins of Winterfell....we're told in the warroom in E04 that 'half' of Unsullied and Dothraki magically remain.

Furthermore, Vary's talks about how their combined remaining forces, versus those of Cersei (who has 10-20,000 Lannister soldiers, 20,000 Golden Company, and the Ironborn) are pretty much on an equal footing.

Could Daenarys buy some more Golden Company troops for her side or pay the current Golden Company to switch sides ?
Meereen is a rich city and I'm sure Daenarys could raise alot of money .

That would be too logical though ,it seems the writers are doing everything in their power to weaken one side whilst strengthening the other.
They seem intent on driving Daenarys over the edge ,to the dark side so to speak .
Jorath gone ,Missandei gone ,Rhaegal ridiculously slaughtered by the savage Euron who seems invincible .

All the while Daenarys is intent on storming Kings Landing instead of playing the strategic game .

Its all a bit like the demise of Stannis Baratheon isnt it ,the greatest commander in Westeros reduced to a laughing stock by the same writers.
Strategy and logic out the window .

Bonzo Delaney

Could some of the forces been left to protect dragonstone
While the rest were in winterfell

namloc1980

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Could some of the forces been left to protect dragonstone
While the rest were in winterfell

Find it mad that Cersei and the Lannisters have left Dragonstone open and available as basically a forward operating base for any enemy to use that close to King's Landing.

Slydice

J. Marston wrote: »

A fan edit of how the farewell to Ghost could've gone drew more emotion from me than both Rhaegal and Missandei's deaths...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwcMcjDvkdI

He's a good boy.

oof!

is_that_so

J. Marston wrote: »

A fan edit of how the farewell to Ghost could've gone drew more emotion from me than both Rhaegal and Missandei's deaths...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwcMcjDvkdI

He's a good boy.

The actual scene was naff but the effort to produce this one aside, that's all a bit Lassie Come Home.:P

Tell me how

Was just thinking that Missandei's final words (or word) were actually a poor choice.
It is reported that her utterance of 'Dracarys' was said in final allegiance to Dany.
Would she not have had Greyworm to the forefront of her thoughts at that moment given they were holding hands on the ship just before (relatively speaking)?

I think if had to speak to Dany and she had said something relating to 'Valar morghulis' it would have been more interesting given her and Dany's conversation on that in Season 3.

threeball

biggebruv wrote: »

So did you predicted the white walkers and nk would be done early season?

Once the NK showed up at winterfell in episode 4 he was done. There was no alternative to having him defeated there with only two episodes left.

rossie1977

J. Marston wrote: »

A fan edit of how the farewell to Ghost could've gone drew more emotion from me than both Rhaegal and Missandei's deaths...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwcMcjDvkdI

He's a good boy.

I'm not crying

The fact that the best actors on the show last couple of seasons have been a giant CGI wolf and a young girl says alot about the quality on offer. Props to for the Dragons it must be said.

J. Marston

Tell me how wrote: »

Was just thinking that Missandei's final words (or word) were actually a poor choice.
It is reported that her utterance of 'Dracarys' was said in final allegiance to Dany.
Would she not have had Greyworm to the forefront of her thoughts at that moment given they were holding hands on the ship just before (relatively speaking)?

I think if had to speak to Dany and she had said something relating to 'Valar morghulis' it would have been more interesting given her and Dany's conversation on that in Season 3.

Bros before hos.....or whatever the female equivalent is.

Loafing Oaf

J. Marston wrote: »

Bros before hos.....or whatever the female equivalent is.

Sistas before mistas?:pac:

threeball

How they plan on getting people to invest in the spin offs after this sh1t show is a anyone's guess. The show has dropped from a potential all time great to car crash television. You're only watching because you want to see how bad it gets.

I was a late comer who didn't bother with it because I have no time for fantasy in general but I watched two episodes on sky Atlantic one night when nothing was on and I was hooked. I've watched every episode at least twice as I'd often rewatch because the options of other good tv are so limited at the moment. This season I can barely get through the first watch. There's not a hope I'd give it a second watch.

The whole premise of Dany standing 100m from the gates with 50 unsullied while at least a dozen cannons/crossbows are trained on her and no one bothers to fire a shot is farcical. The bloody Dragon is sat on his arse only 50m further back but Cersei seems to think it's better to wait for the army to arrive so they can have a decent knock or maybe she just believes in fairness all of a sudden.

lawlolawl

threeball wrote: »

How they plan on getting people to invest in the spin offs after this sh1t show is a anyone's guess. The show has dropped from a potential all time great to car crash television. You're only watching because you want to see how bad it gets.

The ratings have never been higher because they've turned the show into something people can talk about on Monday morning and post "YASS, SLAY KWEEN!" memes on social media about it.


It's been turned into junk TV to sell Funkopops.

threeball

lawlolawl wrote: »

The ratings have never been higher because they've turned the show into something people can talk about on Monday morning and post "YASS, SLAY KWEEN!" memes on social media about it.


It's been turned into junk TV to sell Funkopops.

This show yes, the spinoffs will have to be exceptional to get people on-board.

lawlolawl

threeball wrote: »

This show yes, the spinoffs will have to be exceptional to get people on-board.

Even the mediocre Marvel/Star Wars films make colossal amounts of money at the box office.


This will be no different.

nix

How much book material do they have to work with, with the spin offs?

As if its not much, they may not last long :pac:

threeball

lawlolawl wrote: »

Even the mediocre Marvel/Star Wars films make colossal amounts of money at the box office.


This will be no different.

They're one off events, 90 mins and you're out. Different story investing an hour of your week or regularly bingeing on 4-5hrs of crap tv.

Tell me how

nix wrote: »

How much book material do they have to work with, with the spin offs?

As if its not much, they may not last long :pac:

I'm not sure about spin-offs for this.

I imagine the audience will be much less as people might naturally be looking for something different anyway and this will mean the budget will be less meaning less impressive CGI and visuals. This is unlikely to lead to gaining viewers.

What made GOT so impressive at outset was variety and qty of key characters, expansive and interwoven plot lines and then CGI started to become relevant.

It'll have to be there from day one on a spin off.

lawlolawl

Wasn't expecting this ending.

OneEyedORourke

Should I know who he is?

TerrorFirmer

Any knock off would likely be like The Walking Dead knock-offs. Reasonable viewing figures, reduced budgets. They'll never capture the audience of the later seasons, though there'll certainly be interest.

Now, interestingly, the point is easily made that TWD knock-off, Fear The Walking Dead, is actually much better than TWD - this is especially true when comparing concurrent seasons, EG TWD S7 v FTWD S4.

However, viewing figures are still relatively low for the latter.

Scott Tenorman

To my mind the writers had three big things to wrap up this season:

John being a Targaryen: made an arse of it. Totally downplayed, barely even discussed on screen

Winter is coming: from scene 1, episode 1, season 1 this has been built up so much and what did we get? A single battle that due to the dark and the ice storms we could barely see. No understanding of their motivations apart from some cryptic Bran sh*t and an unlikely (to say the least) rushed conclusion.

The Iron Throne: hasn’t happened yet but they are making an absolute balls of it so far.


Overall it has been a disaster and I am so so disappointed

TerrorFirmer

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

Overall it has been a disaster and I am so so disappointed

While S7 isn't quite as bad as S8 so far, god knows I wish they would go back to this amazing exit from S6, so full of promise, and do it proper justice.

Again....all the more unforgivable given the same people that penned S7/S8 also penned most of S6 without GRRM, so we know they're capable of better.

David Benioff in fact himself wrote an award winning book which is described as a major inspiration for The Last of Us.

Baffling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s20wnvTNfOE

OneOfThem Stumbled

Tell me how wrote: »

Was just thinking that Missandei's final words (or word) were actually a poor choice.
It is reported that her utterance of 'Dracarys' was said in final allegiance to Dany.

It's basically her saying "burn them all" like the mad king did, and I think Dany is going to do just that. The scene doesn't actually make much sense so the choice of word is probably the least of its problems.

It is as silly a scene as Stalin walking up to the Reich Chancellery in May 1945, and Hitler appears on the roof with a dozen snipers and Stalin's daughter, who was somehow kidnapped.

"Do you surrender Hitler?"
"No, but I will now execute your daughter. Stalin's daughter, do you have any last words?"
"Build the wall"
*Stalin's daughter is shot, and Hitler's snipers watch as Stalin walks off*
*Hitler smirks*

lawlolawl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwQV89TE8DQ#t=872s


For some bizarre reason, Missandei was CGI in that last scene.

TerrorFirmer

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

While S7 isn't quite as bad as S8 so far, god knows I wish they would go back to this amazing exit from S6, so full of promise, and do it proper justice.

Again....all the more unforgivable given the same people that penned S7/S8 also penned most of S6 without GRRM, so we know they're capable of better.

David Benioff in fact himself wrote an award winning book which is described as a major inspiration for The Last of Us.

Baffling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s20wnvTNfOE

Yeah we seem at that 'Where did it all go wrong?' point, the Season 6 finale sure would be a nice system restore point to go back to.

I can't help but look back and think that the series really hasn't been the same since 6 words were uttered by Tyrion: "We bring the dead to her."

Castlekeeper

Maybe I'm not saying anything new here but turning it into "Drinking Games of Thrones" with losing virginity scenes? What did they think they were making, American Pie meets The Hunger Games?
I'm just waiting for Bran to turn into his descendant Tony Stark and power pack up out of his wheelchair to save the day in the fibnal battle for Kings Landing thus closing off so many loops, putting Ironman on the Iron Throne.

threeball

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

To my mind the writers had three big things to wrap up this season:

John being a Targaryen: made an arse of it. Totally downplayed, barely even discussed on screen

Winter is coming: from scene 1, episode 1, season 1 this has been built up so much and what did we get? A single battle that due to the dark and the ice storms we could barely see. No understanding of their motivations apart from some cryptic Bran sh*t and an unlikely (to say the least) rushed conclusion.

The Iron Throne: hasn’t happened yet but they are making an absolute balls of it so far.


Overall it has been a disaster and I am so so disappointed

Bran has been pointless sincè he was pushed out the window. I can't think of a more pointless and utterly unlikable character in any major tv show. If he had died in that scene we'd have just as much info as we do now.

Memory of man, who doesn't talk or relay any info. What a load of crap. What's the point in knowing everything if you tell no one. It's like newton figuring out gravity but just saying fcuk it, I'm not telling them, I'm going to enjoy my apple.

TerrorFirmer

threeball wrote: »

Bran has been pointless sincè he was pushed out the window. I can't think of a more pointless and utterly unlikable character in any major tv show. If he had died in that scene we'd have just as much info as we do now.

Memory of man, who doesn't talk or relay any info. What a load of crap. What's the point in knowing everything if you tell no one. It's like newton figuring out gravity but just saying fcuk it, I'm not telling them, I'm going to enjoy my apple.

While Bran has served a sort of limited purpose, I would largely agree. And what's worst, is that unless the show radically pulls it out of the bag in the next 2 episodes (unlikely), re-watching the show will be nigh-on impossible knowing the majority of it goes nowhere.

gibgodsman

gibgodsman wrote: »

Honestly I feel so far Season 8 could have just been a 2 hour long movie because we have had nothing but Filler with a let down episode 3.

Most of season 1-6 was filler to be fair

TerrorFirmer

Anyone else watch "The 100" tv show? Genuinely good, alot of surprising darkness in there for a CW show, but it's waned in later seasons and like GOT, various plot lines and threads are just forgotten about/brushed over but the main character Clarke is pretty much The Dragon Queen in space. S6 just airing now.

nix

nix wrote: »

How much book material do they have to work with, with the spin offs?

As if its not much, they may not last long :pac:

I'm really hoping The Witcher isn't complete dog ****. There's a wealth of source material to work with there.

J Mysterio

A few random thoughts.

I thought Missandei was going to grab Cersei and hop off the battlements with her, she actually had the opportunity and was about to die anyway. Her death was ultimately painfully straightforward and quite dull.

I'm not too bothered by Greyworm's suffering, which will inevitably be focused on, as it's basically a full reset into Unsullied mode for him, so meh. He didn't exactly have a huge personality anyway. He will be extra killy now.

You would imagine that the small force Daenerys brought to parley is being supplemented by a very close larger army as otherwise they can surely be obliterated immediately in opening scene of e5, with Tyrion getting plugged full of arrows. I don't know why Cersei would not kill him directly anyway, she's after sending a hitman to kill him ffs; the Lannisters are rarely so shy.

Cersei who was reasonably balanced at a point in time has become a bit one dimensional. Who are her allies? What are her plans? Seemingly has learnt nothing.

Another dragon killed, seemingly quite easily.

The North/ Targaryen army breaking apart as many go off on their own was odd. As to her army, I don't see how she has one as surely 95% of the Dothraki available were killed and a good 60% of the Unsullied.

The aftermath of the battle and in particular the feast was very muted and quite flat. The feast in particular had an odd tone, too civilised and rigid by far. This is a feast after surviving the battle to end all battles - fighting death itself. To have fought and won, heroes all, I'd be dancing on the bloody rafters with my nob out. I appreciate they were advancing the Daenerys/ John question here but it seemed off. The scale seemed off for this too, in the small banquet hall.

Overall, this was a weak episode for me and it certainly felt rushed. Feels like they are cramming two seasons into one, or just running out of steam.

The Brienne and Jaime tryst was just introduced and summarily ended in one episode. It felt icky and wrong and was awkward and painful to watch. Brienne's subsequent breakdown was totally out of character and cheapend her somewhat.

I liked Varys here though. He seemed to be quite passionate for once, but with Conleth Hill, you still don't trust the bastard.

Sansa being subconsciously pushed around by John is wearing a bit thin. Especially after his revelation. You expect Sansa to be stronger - what about the North? Arya just fecks off again on another hit.

Disappointed with Bron angle as he worked best as an honourable rogue. He has been lessened.

Good god. I sometimes forget people like this exist. Am I falling for clickbait?

"Worst of all, though, was the treatment of Missandei. As Game of Thrones’ only regular female character of colour, the show had a responsibility to not mess her arc up."

https://amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/may/08/game-of-thrones-has-betrayed-the-women-who-made-it-great

TerrorFirmer

J Mysterio wrote: »

The Brienne and Jaime tryst was just introduced and summarily ended in one episode. It felt icky and wrong and was awkward and painful to watch. Brienne's subsequent breakdown was totally out of character and cheapend her somewhat.

I genuinely agree with all your points, but the Jaime/Brienne arc isn't so bad if you think about it. It's been building for seasons now, and people can say it's out of character, but it's really not.

What she had with Jaime is purely emotional, built on how much they've shared since S2...she has a unique insight into his thinking and personal growth that virtually no-one else has - not even Cersei at this point.

She witnessed Jaime at his lowest, weakest and best; exposed the rawest part of her to Jaime in turn, and is understandably left emotionally fragmented by his leaving.

Doesn't take away from her as the warrior she is though, or how she sees him.

It's arguably not even that sexual despite their coupling, but Brienne knows Jaime in a way that almost no-one does. She sees him as a great man - but only she has seen the lenghty path he's trodden, and only she truly sees the Kingslayer for what he truly has become.

Starks don't like him - Dany loathes him - the broader northmen hate him - and so on. He's a univerally loathed figure, yet Brienne knows better.

At this point I'd almost hedge bets on Brienne survive, if only to keep the memory of the righteous Kingslayer alive against what the history books will record.

Asus X540L

Why are people saying this season is "fan service"?

If they were trying to do the fans a service they wouldn't have released this utter tripe.

Slightly odd thought but are Cerci and Danerous kind of being mirrored in the show.

3 kids(dragons) die {the last dragon will likely die}

There 1 true love is incestuous in nature.

Both lose a father figure they respect and that holds them in check some what.

Maybe there is more just a thought that popped into my head.

Asus X540L

Asus X540L wrote: »

Why are people saying this season is "fan service"?

If they were trying to do the fans a service they wouldn't have released this utter tripe.

I presume people that say that are talking about the social media related stuff although I have not got a clue about any of that

Asus X540L

Deleted User wrote: »

Slightly odd thought but are Cerci and Danerous kind of being mirrored in the show.

3 kids(dragons) die {the last dragon will likely die}

There 1 true love is incestuous in nature.

Both lose a father figure they respect and that holds them in check some what.

Maybe there is more just a thought that popped into my head.

And of course they're both mad as hatters

sabat

"Wah wah, my entertainment isn't what I want it to be like."

Get a fckng grip you whiny pissants.

TerrorFirmer

Deleted User wrote: »

I presume people that say that are talking about the social media related stuff although I have not got a clue about any of that

It's an admittedly crap way of saying that the writers are pandering to the broadest demograph given the sheer rise in popularity.

EG, if we now have 12m viewers verus the 6M of earlier seasons, let's write what we think the majority of those want to see on screen, rather than maintain the consitency we've observed thus far.

Imagine if other HBO shows followed this narrative. Sopranos would have Tony illogically whip out a shoulder mounted rocket launcher to take out his enemies.

TerrorFirmer

sabat wrote: »

"Wah wah, my entertainment isn't what I want it to be like."

Get a fckng grip you whiny pissants.

A carefully constructed argument. Here we were griping over the widely documented drop in scripting, narrative and direction that is reflected in most critical reviews also, not realising how pedantic we've been.

You've given us much to think about with your blow-by-blow account of how GOT has, in fact, maintaned it's quality this season.

Thank you.

lawlolawl

Asus X540L wrote: »

Why are people saying this season is "fan service"?

If they were trying to do the fans a service they wouldn't have released this utter tripe.

You need to realize that the fans of the show they are targeting aren't the people who have watched since S01 (probably because they were fans of the books) who care about it being a well written and well produced show.


They are targeting the social media users who jumped on halfway through just to be part of something that they could hashtag who will endlessly repost the "YASS KWEEN" ****e and buy a boatload of merch.


It's not a TV show anymore, it's an event. People just want to be part of a thing happening.

I know people who are watching this season alone as a one off, just because its become so popular.

They would have followed it either very minimally or not at all before and they seem to like it so it kinda is what it is.

An FU to fans of the show from the start, but they know thier new demographic

sabat

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

A carefully constructed argument. Here we were griping over the widely documented drop in scripting, narrative and direction that is reflected in most critical reviews also, not realising how pedantic we've been.

You've given us much to think about with your blow-by-blow account of how GOT has, in fact, maintaned it's quality this season.

Thank you.

There are people here complaining that they didn't like how John Snow said goodbye to his dog ffs. It's a tv show.

TerrorFirmer

sabat wrote: »

There are people here complaining that they didn't like how John Snow said goodbye to his dog ffs. It's a tv show.

If that was the only yardstick - it's "just" a TV show?

The worst declines in TV would all be acceptable. Why should GOT be any different?

Paddy Cow

sabat wrote: »

There are people here complaining that they didn't like how John Snow said goodbye to his dog ffs. It's a tv show.

Ghost isn't a dog, he's a direwolf and deserved a pet and a steak before leaving. And it's Jon, not John. Ffs attention to detail please.

namloc1980

threeball wrote: »

Bran has been pointless sincè he was pushed out the window. I can't think of a more pointless and utterly unlikable character in any major tv show. If he had died in that scene we'd have just as much info as we do now.

Memory of man, who doesn't talk or relay any info. What a load of crap. What's the point in knowing everything if you tell no one. It's like newton figuring out gravity but just saying fcuk it, I'm not telling them, I'm going to enjoy my apple.

Bran along with the Night King are both completely pointless characters.

Tell me how

namloc1980 wrote: »

Bran along with the Night King are both completely pointless characters.

Bran is strange in that you can't say that his 3 eyed raven ability made any great impact on the show, rather than allowing the NK to find him at Winterfell.
Kinda feel like an awful lot more could have been done with his character, they didn't try to leverage his ability to get any insight in to anything really.

The NK was a central character in leading the army of the dead and he was the focus for all in S7 and up to Episode 3 in S8.

OneOfThem Stumbled

threeball wrote: »

Bran has been pointless sincè he was pushed out the window. I can't think of a more pointless and utterly unlikable character in any major tv show. If he had died in that scene we'd have just as much info as we do now.

Memory of man, who doesn't talk or relay any info. What a load of crap. What's the point in knowing everything if you tell no one. It's like newton figuring out gravity but just saying fcuk it, I'm not telling them, I'm going to enjoy my apple.

Other than editing a single scene (in relation to why Jon wants to join with Daenerys) you could cut all the white walker and wight stuff from every season and you still have the same ultimate story. That's bonkers.