"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the S" - Spoilers post 2 fo

Kirby

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Increasingly convinced Bronn is the only deserving winner of the Game of Thrones.

Tyrion will end up on the throne. I've been preaching this since season 1. He's George's favorite character and the audience has always loved him.

The show will end with him ruling.

IAMAMORON

IAMAMORON wrote: »

A bit too easy for a television show?

I now know why you are not sitting on the iron throne, you need to use a little poetic license from time to time.

I would say the producers have other plans for Tyrion's demise, any thoughts?

I’ve got a bet on with my daughter that Tyrion will be sitting on the iron throne! After his chat with Varys, I think I’ve lost!

I just don’t think the scene was very thought out. If I was Cersei and the only other person claiming the right to sit on the iron throne was in front of me, exposed, damn right I’d take her out! What would her remaining unsullied and Dothraki be fighting for then? Their queen would be dead so they could toodle back to Essos on a last minute package deal with Drogon Aer.

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

Tyrion will end up on the throne. I've been preaching this since season 1. He's George's favorite character and the audience has always loved him.

The show will end with him ruling.

And my bet is back on!

The main problem I have with this show right now is that all of the main characters are becoming unlike-able, when I loved them all before.

Jon Snow has gone from Lord Commander to King of the North. Now he seems to just love Dany and want her to be Queen.
Dany looked certain to be queen some day but now it seems like most of the main characters hate her and she is obsessed with the throne.
Bran is fairly useless as 3ER.
Tyrion and Varys seem to switch allegiance whenever it suits their agenda.
Jaime... Is he good? Is he bad? Who knows.
Arya, I just never really liked her character or story. I mean, its ok, but I don't really love or hate her.
Sansa is certainly a stronger character than before but her only real contribution remains as the Battle of the Bastards.

Not even really sure what I'd like to happen in the end.

Varys has always said that he serves the realm rather than the king/queen.

Essien

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Varys has always said that he serves the realm rather than the king/queen.

Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone would have an issue with Varys here. His motive has been consistent since the start.

kowloon

Deleted User wrote: »

Sansa said she could not swear without knowing. Jon said you can because "we're family" and then proceeds with the secret they're not family! So, don't think she's breaking a promise.

I've enjoyed this season very much. The pacing is wrong, but ending it this season requires everything to be speeded up. And, you simply can't please everyone.

I would have loved to have seen that conversation and have it play out like that.

rob316

This is typical of all great shows coming to an end. The last episodes become predictable, tying off lose ends. The viewer just wants it to end and start seen most characters in a negative light.
HBO haven't helped themselves by leaving it 2 years between seasons, it's kills the momentum of the show. They did the exact same with the sopranos, 3 years between the 2nd last season and the finale.

average hero

Brilliant episode from my perspective.

As was mentioned above, it brought GoT back to where it is best - strategy, scheming and the politics and gossip that made it so intriguing. I particularly like the 'war room' type scenes.

The Good - Cersei (as ever), the final scene, the sea battle scene, the war room scene, the awkwardness at the beginning as the celebrated the victory over the dead. It was so cringey in a beautifully artful way. The way some of the budding love stories have opened up is pretty cool too. Emilia Clarke's acting in this episode was brilliant.

The Bad - as mentioned, some of the decisions made by some characters in this episode needed more time. Jaime, Varys, etc. It feels a bit rushed. The dragon being killed was surprising but affects your 'suspended disbelief' as he lived through the previous battle.

Overall a great episode. Can't wait for next week!

I guess the show will probably end with Dany going mad and she has every right to. She arrived in Westeros with a large army and could have easily taken KL. Instead she was advised to hold back and do things peacefully. As a result, her army started getting picked off. Then she got pulled into the fight with the dead. Lost a dragon, lost lots of unsullied and Dothraki. She has now lost Ser Jorah, another dragon and Missandei. The northerners don’t like her. Jon has a claim to the throne and wouldn’t keep it secret. Her advisers don’t want her on the throne.

She has every right to go crazy now and unleash her full power on her enemies.

Tyrion was probably right when he told her that perhaps Mereen is were she could do most good. Olenna was right when she told her to be a dragon.

seligehgit

Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 4

Inside the episode

https://youtu.be/u8K9XuPrXko

johnny_ultimate

While I preferred this episode to last week's because it felt slightly more Game of Thrones-like, it suffered from a bad case of 'moving the chess pieces into place' syndrome. For a show that's spent eight seasons percolating conflicts and relationships, this one felt rushed to the point where key moments didn't land properly. Brienne and Jamie's goodbye scene, to pick an obvious example: I don't think either was acting in a way that felt true to where the characters have been at recently (frankly, to see Brienne break down as a blubbering wreck isn't majorly credible in general) despite the best efforts of two of the show's best actors. Instead, it felt like they just had to get Jamie to King's Landing for the inevitable, likely deadly confrontation with his sister. The episode generally had a few moments like that that didn't sit right, and add to that the increasing logical leaps and tactical mishaps that we're being asked to accept. Maybe it's just me but the weight of Jon's 'secret', despite plenty of build up in past episodes, didn't really register either before it transformed into 'information'.

But there were hints - especially the scheming between Varys and Tyrion - where I was glad the Night King was gone and we were briefly back to the final round of scheming, treason and political wrangling.

The main problem isn't new here - the show's writing has discernibly suffered post-books, and there's no major signs of recovery here at this late stage.

OptimusTractor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I guess the show will probably end with Dany going mad and she has every right to. She arrived in Westeros with a large army and could have easily taken KL. Instead she was advised to hold back and do things peacefully. As a result, her army started getting picked off. Then she got pulled into the fight with the dead. Lost a dragon, lost lots of unsullied and Dothraki. She has now lost Ser Jorah, another dragon and Missandei. The northerners don’t like her. Jon has a claim to the throne and wouldn’t keep it secret. Her advisers don’t want her on the throne.

She has every right to go crazy now and unleash her full power on her enemies.

Tyrion was probably right when he told her that perhaps Mereen is were she could do most good. Olenna was right when she told her to be a dragon.

So she decides to burn em all and fly back to Mereen. Camera pans to burning bodies and smoke. As the smoke clears who appears none other than Tormund Giantsbane. He smiles and whispers "F**king Southerners". Roll credits.

False Prophet

Like father like son it seems when it comes to stark women rejections.

Paddy Cow

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Increasingly convinced Bronn is the only deserving winner of the Game of Thrones.

I loved how he played Jamie and Tyrion. He was never promised Riverrun and now he's getting High Garden. Well played!

Paddy Cow

muddypaws wrote: »

Why do all the characters seem to accept unquestioningly Danni's constant cry that the Iron Throne is all she's ever wanted and that she was always born to be the Queen? Her brother was meant to sit on the throne, she was given to Drogo as payment for his army to get her brother the throne, not her. This wasn't her whole reason for being. It's always annoyed me, but it's really, really pissing me off now.

This has always bugged me. Dany was a weak character, abused and intimidated by her brother and even Varys and Illyrio expected her to die with the Dothraki. It was only after the assassination attempt on her life and Drogo declaring that he would take the Iron Throne for her that she started to see the Throne as her destiny. After Drogo died she became absolutely obsessed with getting the throne.

When Jon told her his true identity, her reaction wasn't "ew I've been sleeping with my nephew", it was "fcuk, you've got a better claim than me and that makes you a threat to me".

IAMAMORON

rob316 wrote: »

This is typical of all great shows coming to an end. The last episodes become predictable, tying off lose ends. The viewer just wants it to end and start seen most characters in a negative light.
HBO haven't helped themselves by leaving it 2 years between seasons, it's kills the momentum of the show. They did the exact same with the sopranos, 3 years between the 2nd last season and the finale.

Massively this.

I read with envy the new viewers forum where people have been watching the entire series since Christmas. Lovely big fat binge watch and then straight into the finale. Nice.

OptimusTractor

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I loved how he played Jamie and Tyrion. He was never promised Riverrun and now he's getting High Garden. Well played!

Bronn ain't getting sh!t. As he's dumber than he looks if he thinks different.

Penn

I enjoyed the episode a lot. Some mis-steps like the sudden attack by Euron (he should have been spotted a mile off, it was daytime) and how they captured Missande (how they could have picked her out of everyone to capture, even not really knowing who she was or her importance to Dany). And not being able to see Sansa and Arya learn of Jon's true parentage was just a real kick in the nads. There have been more and more scenes of conversations left hanging and cut away before the end, but this was by far the most egregious. That is a vitally important scene with characters who have been there since episode 1 concerning something which is going to hugely affect their relationships with each other... that needed to be seen even just for Arya and Sansa's reaction shots. We deserved to be shown that.

That said, a lot to like in this episode. I liked how Arya didn't go off with Gendry, absolutely true to her character. Sansa has become one of the best characters in the show. Her scene with The Hound I thought was great, and her telling Tyrion about Jon shows she's still playing the game of thrones as well as anyone. She knew Tyrion was wavering on Dany and telling him could push him off the edge with her. Tyrion and Varys' scenes were great, and Dany turning into the Mad Queen was something I suspected might happen for a while, but I think it's being played really well. Cersei in her short appearance this episode damn near acted everyone else off the screen though. Lena Headley is pure amazing.

I think so long as they don't completely screw the pooch, the show will still end well and go down as a great show, but it's definitely been dipping in quality in a lot of regards.

IAMAMORON

OptimusTractor wrote: »

Bronn ain't getting sh!t. As he's dumber than he looks if he thinks different.

I agree, he is dead meat anyway, greedy bastard.

is_that_so

Lots of rushing and plodding at the same time in this as well as some very dodgy dialogue. It was always going to be a step down in energy but this felt very flat and a bit of a mess with good moments well outnumbered by a lot of dross. On to Episode 5!

Elmer Jones

Why after the loss of the first dragon was there not at least discussion in the show about putting some form of Armour on them, surely just for the sake of the plot not seeing stupid did they not do that.

So often you see in TV shows and films that one simple line would get rid of an idiotic plot point and they never seem to do it.

False Prophet

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I agree, he is dead meat anyway, greedy bastard.

Plus even if he got high garden ,how long would he stay in power, not sure he would be able for the political side.

lawlolawl

Elmer Jones wrote: »

Why after the loss of the first dragon was there not at least discussion in the show about putting some form of Armour on them, surely just for the sake of the plot not seeing stupid did they not do that.

So often you see in TV shows and films that one simple line would get rid of an idiotic plot point and they never seem to do it.

The only type of armour that matters in this show is plot armour.

nix

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I agree, he is dead meat anyway, greedy bastard.

Say it with me, A Lannister always........


And why the **** does Tyrion (or anyone) always try to get through to Cersei? It has never worked.. ever.. not once!

weldoninhio

Essien wrote: »

I enjoyed it.

It's hard to predict who ends up on the throne now that Cersei appears to have the upper hand, Jon and Dany could go either way and Gendry being legitimized will surely have some repercussions.

Varys was the highlight of the episode for me. His scheming will definitely throw a cat amongst the pigeons.

The only thing I'll nit pick at here is how the hell did Missandei get captured while the rest of them were washing ashore? That was remarkably convenient.

She got on a skiff (a small boat) so was obviously picked up by one of Eurons fleet.

False Prophet

Elmer Jones wrote: »

Why after the loss of the first dragon was there not at least discussion in the show about putting some form of Armour on them, surely just for the sake of the plot not seeing stupid did they not do that.

So often you see in TV shows and films that one simple line would get rid of an idiotic plot point and they never seem to do it.

How would they go about making armour for a dragon?
How would they get the dragons to wear it. How much would wearing the armour cost them in regards maneuverability or weight. Plus they already are wearing natural armour, would wearing another thin sheet of armour make any difference.
Plus night king was dead so they wouldn't expect to be taken out by surprise like that.

nix

Bloody starbucks are everywhere, they've even opened up in Winterfell :rolleyes::pac:

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

She got on a skiff (a small boat) so was obviously picked up by one of Eurons fleet.

It's as if some here need the battles to be shown in real time, so this episode would have been two hours longer, just showing the sea battle and the troops swimming ashore :rolleyes:

nix

nix wrote: »

Bloody starbucks are everywhere, they've even opened up in Winterfell :rolleyes::pac:

Probably at least two, with less than a Sam Tarly arrow shot between them.

Paddy Cow

nix wrote: »

Say it with me, A Lannister always........


And why the **** does Tyrion (or anyone) always try to get through to Cersei? It has never worked.. ever.. not once!

I think the point of that was for Euron to find out he's not the father and drive a wedge between him and Cersei.

nix

nix wrote: »

Bloody starbucks are everywhere, they've even opened up in Winterfell :rolleyes::pac:

Plus nobody spotted it. Seems some were right, it really is too darkly lit :pac::D

awec

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I think the point of that was for Euron to find out he's not the father and drive a wedge between him and Cersei.

How would Tyrion know what Cersei has told Euron?

Tyrion had no idea that Euron thinks the baby is his.

Elmer Jones

False Prophet wrote: »

How would they go about making armour for a dragon?
How would they get the dragons to wear it. How much would wearing the armour cost them in regards maneuverability or weight. Plus they already are wearing natural armour, would wearing another thin sheet of armour make any difference.
Plus night king was dead so they wouldn't expect to be taken out by surprise like that.

It seems extremely foolish not to at least try and protect your most valuable warriors.

If men can go into battle with armour on them I see no reason why a dragon can't.

If it isn't possible fine but at least have a small discussion about the possibility of it in the show.

They've had very clear evidence that the dragons are easy enough killed and done nothing to reduce that risk, it just smack of idiotic planning in order to move the plot forward.

Twenty Grand

I liked this episode. Sets things up well and sets characters at odds with each other.

Never liked Missandei and the Grey Worm romance was bullsh*t filler.

It has the usual logic faults (how did Dany not see the ships, don't they bother scouting?) and warp travel from Winterfell to Dragonstone to KL.

I love the political intruige though and we're right back to it

Elmer Jones wrote: »

It seems extremely foolish not to at least try and protect your most valuable warriors.
.

I doubt armour would stop those missiles.
Obviously I don't know about the mechanics of dragon flying, but would a couple tons of steel make a difference?

OneOfThem Stumbled

nix wrote: »

Say it with me, A Lannister always........


And why the **** does Tyrion (or anyone) always try to get through to Cersei? It has never worked.. ever.. not once!

Try ringing a bell behind her, I'm sure that would get her attention.

lawlolawl

weldoninhio wrote: »

She got on a skiff (a small boat) so was obviously picked up by one of Eurons fleet.

She apparently made the unusual decision to pilot her boat towards Eurons fleet.

Elmer Jones

Elmer Jones wrote: »

If men can go into battle with armour on them I see no reason why a dragon can't.

Making them too heavy to fly, a lot less agile. The dragons seem to know their own mind/are tempermental, possibly wouldn't allow it.

OptimusTractor

lawlolawl wrote: »

She apparently made the unusual decision to pilot her boat towards Eurons fleet.

The closer she is to danger, the further she is from harm.

Penn

Elmer Jones wrote: »

It seems extremely foolish not to at least try and protect your most valuable warriors.

If men can go into battle with armour on them I see no reason why a dragon can't.

If it isn't possible fine but at least have a small discussion about the possibility of it in the show.

They've had very clear evidence that the dragons are easy enough killed and done nothing to reduce that risk, it just smack of idiotic planning in order to move the plot forward.

I think nobody would be able to properly measure the dragons for armour, fit the armour to the dragons, all their resources/time were spent armouring the soldiers before the night king battle, and if the scorpion can shoot through the dragonscales, it'll go through the armour too. Plus the dragon was still shot through the neck, so even if the armour protected part of them, it's not going to protect their entire bodies.

lawlolawl

lawlolawl wrote: »

She apparently made the unusual decision to pilot her boat towards Eurons fleet.

She made it to shore with three others, Jym, Patryk and Baart. She exclaimed how dreadful their battered ships looked across the sea. She stayed five minutes on the sea edge looking for Greyworm, but she realised the tide had taken them further down the sea shore, so the four of them set off to walk along the shoreline. In fairness Jym thought it a better idea to go further inland, but was over ruled. They set out, but on the third bend they blundered (Jym kept mouthing off it was a bad idea) into a camp of Euron' soldiers.

She pretended to be a servant girl, but one of the guards recognised her from the season 7 get together climax and said, "Take her to our Queen".

Fade to black.

Better?

False Prophet

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Massively this.

I read with envy the new viewers forum where people have been watching the entire series since Christmas. Lovely big fat binge watch and then straight into the finale. Nice.

Depends binge watching means less time for an episode to sink in. If you could control yourself and watch 1 a day then yep. Otherwise it would be spoilt by overindulgence.

lawlolawl

Deleted User wrote: »

She made it to shore with three others, Jym, Patryk and Baart. She exclaimed how dreadful their battered ships looked across the sea. She stayed five minutes on the sea edge looking for Greyworm, but she realised the tide had taken them further down the sea shore, so the four of them set off to walk along the shoreline. In fairness Jym thought it a better idea to go further inland, but was over ruled. They set out, but on the third bend they blundered (Jym kept mouthing off it was a bad idea) into a camp of Euron' soldiers.

She pretended to be a servant girl, but one of the guards recognised her from the season 7 get together climax and said, "Take her to our Queen".

Fade to black.

Better?

It's certainly better than stuff happening off screen just to dramitically advance the plot.


We're getting "a wizard did it" levels of script writing now.

Tazzimus

Elmer Jones wrote: »

It seems extremely foolish not to at least try and protect your most valuable warriors.

If men can go into battle with armour on them I see no reason why a dragon can't.

If it isn't possible fine but at least have a small discussion about the possibility of it in the show.

They've had very clear evidence that the dragons are easy enough killed and done nothing to reduce that risk, it just smack of idiotic planning in order to move the plot forward.

Dragons have their own natural armour. Dragon scale is supposed to be practically like steel, so putting armour on them won't make much difference if the scorpion bolts can punch through their scales already.

Paddy Cow

awec wrote: »

How would Tyrion know what Cersei has told Euron?

Tyrion had no idea that Euron thinks the baby is his.

Tyrion wasn't doing it deliberately. It was the writers using him to let Euron know. So far Cersei has all the advantages. It's time to start some sh!t in her camp. Unless Euron is an absolute thicko, he'll have to have figured out he's not the father.

weldoninhio

lawlolawl wrote: »

She apparently made the unusual decision to pilot her boat towards Eurons fleet.

So you think she’d have the only boat with an engine?? Or that she’s a qualified skipper??

WhiteMemento9

The coffee cup speaks to how little examination the show maybe got after being written, produced and put together. They are so paranoid about spoilers that very little oversight was probably given to anyone outside a very tight-knit group. Pity as they could have done with some objective criticism throughout the whole season.

Decent episode but that doesn't really cut it at this stage of the game.

Skylinehead

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

The coffee cup speaks to how little examination the show maybe got after being written, produced and put together.

One of the best-produced series in history (Lord of the Rings) has a car in it. Mistakes happen.

PressRun

Another weird one.
There were aspects of it I liked - the return of Cersei is welcome. She's a terrific character and brilliantly played. Probably the character I've enjoyed most since season one, so was glad to see her back in the mix. And Varys had plenty to say which I enjoyed, I liked his scenes with Tyrion. The political scheming has always been more interesting to me than the white walker stuff, so I'm glad to get back to that.

On to the bad:
Still don't understand what they've done with Tyrion's character though - he seems a bit of a fool now? His trying to defend Danerys to Varys seemed odd. I guess he's frightened of her, like he sort of admitted to Sansa, but it still seems like his character has been dumbed down a bit.

The scene with Bronn bursting in on Jamie and Tyrion drinking was poor, and Jamie and Brienne wasn't believable to me. The build up to their hooking up was cringeworthy stuff. Jamie sketching then was also confusing - whose side is he on? Does he think he's lying to himself by trying to live happily ever after with Brienne or something?

I just can't stand Euron. They've obviously just been trying to fill the one-dimensional villain role since Joffrey died. First they tried it with Ramsay and now this guy. He's just so predictable. I actually don't even think there'll be any satisfaction in seeing him killed, he's that tedious. I didn't get any enjoyment in seeing him take out a dragon tbh.

Penn

Penn wrote: »

Unless Jorah was hiding some dragon eggs where the sun doesn't shine, I'd say we could start laughing at you now

I think, reading Dany's lips, she was actually saying... "If only you had asked!". Which might have explained an unexpected rising. :pac: