"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the S" - Spoilers post 2 fo

NaiveMelodies

Giggernaut wrote: »

Maybe it's obvious but how did Euron and the lads know Dany was en route to Kings Landing.

Seems like the decision to head south was made pretty quick post Winterfell battle.

Do we think there's a rat in Danys crew?

There's always rats Nidge.

lawred2

The timelines are a joke at this stage... for some much to and froing of armies up and down the length of the Seven Kingdoms while Cersei still not showing a bump is stupid...

At this stage - to enjoy GOT (it being obvious fantasy aside) suspension of disbelief is required.

ASOT

In fairness how do we know she's even pregnant? It could all be her scheming to keep Jaime and Euron in check.

yourdeadwright

The show had to wrap up this season but it has suffered because of it,

They could have easily had another season and fleshed it out a bit more and taken a little more time over things ,

Again considering the cast is so huge and actors are moving on its understandable that things seem rushed as they are ,

yourdeadwright

Tell me how wrote: »

Can anyone explain why this season was shortened to 6 episodes?

Surely given the popularity, the budget could have been there to extend it to 8 or 10 episodes.

I'm enjoying it but think there is too much happening which is not shown onscreen. Various characters have disappeared for too long and we're left with what feels like watching the extended highlights.

Last season was also 6 episodes ,they where having trouble hanging onto all the actors so they needed to start wrapping it up ,

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Read a good theory on Reddit about how it was Sansa who let King's Landing know Dany was heading south.. No Northmen are with Dany, it weakens both of Sansa's enemies etc.

And then the reality hits that the chances of the clowns writing this ever even considering using Sansa's newly forced intelligence to do something so smart is slim. If they do, it'll be great to have some intrigue again and it could save the season; The North can fight the broken winners of KL or something.


And this write up about cause and effect is good: https://old.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bld2j5/spoilers_extended_how_surprise_does_and_doesnt/

This is pushing the boat out a bit. This close to the end it just looks like rushing things along on the assumption viewers will think it's credible. Why would she do it, especially given Cersie's track record? There's only so far the enemy of my enemy can stretch and that's paper thin. There are intrigues at work but shafting her brother hardly seems like one of them.

Tell me how

is_that_so wrote: »

This is pushing the boat out a bit. This close to the end it just looks like rushing things along on the assumption viewers will think it's credible. Why would she do it, especially given Cersie's track record? There's only so far the enemy of my enemy can stretch and that's paper thin. There are intrigues at work but shafting her brother hardly seems like one of them.

She did seem to have a smile when she learned that they had been attacked, also, her comment to the Hound that but for Little Finger and Ramsey, she would still be a little bird rather than what she has become is a strong indicator that she is playing some game.

Greyfox

Excellent episode, loved it.
Yes the pace is a little fast but theres nothing that can be done about that now, Season 8 is still better than season 5. Were never going to get another show that has so many great characters, the fact than there's only 2 episodes left just makes me appreciate every minute of GOT that bit more.

EarlyStorms

It's shame the show runners have tried to wrapped this series up as quickly as possible. If they really wanted to move on to other projects they could have got somebody else to take over their role. What we have now feels like 2 series worth of content being forced into 6 episodes. It's still very enjoyable but it feels so rushed and it could've been so much better with more time.

is_that_so

Tell me how wrote: »

She did seem to have a smile when she learned that they had been attacked, also, her comment to the Hound that but for Little Finger and Ramsey, she would still be a little bird rather than what she has become is a strong indicator that she is playing some game.

It's more likely to show that she accepted that such experiences have made her who she is. She could be, the whole GOT world is set up that way and a lot of it red herrings. Could just as well have been delighted that someone she disliked got her ass kicked. I think it's safe to say nobody wins in deals with Cersei!

Joshua J

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The show had to wrap up this season but it has suffered because of it,

They could have easily had another season and fleshed it out a bit more and taken a little more time over things ,

Again considering the cast is so huge and actors are moving on its understandable that things seem rushed as they are ,

They could have wrapped it up in one season but we've spent 3 out of 4 episodes flapping around doing little of note. I get a feeling the writers care more about being front and centre rather than just telling a good story what with them being in the actual episode dressed as wildlings and the after show they do were they get interviewed.

Having Tyrion and Daenerys stand a few hundred feet in front of Cersei as she makes a declaration of war, and yet with many longbowmen doesn't just shoot them both. Ludicrous nonsense

namloc1980

Could have easily wiped out all 40 of them standing there in the open with the ballistas and longbows. Drogon could have been taken down too as we've seen dragons on the ground are slow and take a bit to get them airborne. Nonsense.

I'm surprised people have an issue with Brienne. She's possibly the only character who hasn't been made a balls of at this stage.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm surprised people have an issue with Brienne. She's possibly the only character who hasn't been made a balls of at this stage.

Might have agreed with you before this last episode..

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

Having Tyrion and Daenerys stand a few hundred feet in front of Cersei as she makes a declaration of war, and yet with many longbowmen doesn't just shoot them both. Ludicrous nonsense

There are rules of war, Cersei is trying to make out she is a good queen to her subjects and that Danny is the tyrant

Don'ts forget she still need's the iron bank and there is still a whole world outside of Westeros .She can not come across as a savage,

Plus she is standing there herself and could easy be killed by one blast of the Dragon or by an arrow in the chaos,

Mantis Toboggan

namloc1980 wrote: »

Could have easily wiped out all 40 of them standing there in the open with the ballistas and longbows. Drogon could have been taken down too as we've seen dragons on the ground are slow and take a bit to get them airborne. Nonsense.

Doesn't make any sense does it?

It really has nosedived. The quicker it gets finished the better. The writing is really poor, some of the dialog is embarrassing.

How Soon Is Now

The last two episodes where written by and dumb and dumber and the remaining ones are the same so don't be expected things to magically get better!

Said it once and ill say it again the main reason for the drop in quality in certain areas is because they had the bones of the show given to them at the start. All they had to do was steer the ship in the right direction! Once this was gone and they actually had to write there own story and flesh out how to finish and tie it together themselves they have shown there not actually up to the job!

The plot holes have become more and more. Issues which where small and not that important at first are now becoming major draw backs to the story.

Characters who where brilliantly written and made to look very impressive for most of the start have become flawed washed up of versions of what used to be. All while others are given roles they never needed and in some cases elevated to things they should never of even been involved in. If it had of been this way from the start this show would be no where near the level its reached globally.

Its really simple for me i love this show and i still try and enjoy it as much as possible. The buzz is still there and i think most of that is down to the fact i know how amazing this show can be and i want it to somehow stay that way in my mind. I know its not over yet but i think its very clear at this stage where not getting the ending that we could of got.

For whatever reasons the show runners have other things in mind and wrapping this up in a way that will keep the average tv viewer happy is the best they can do.

namloc1980

yourdeadwright wrote: »

There are rules of war, Cersei is trying to make out she is a good queen to her subjects and that Danny is the tyrant

Don'ts forget she still need's the iron bank and there is still a whole world outside of Westeros .She can not come across as a savage,

Plus she is standing there herself and could easy be killed by one blast of the Dragon or by an arrow in the chaos,

Chaos? There's only about 40 of them standing there. We saw already that the ballistas are deadly accurate over some distance taking down all of the fleet earlier in the episode.

Also she had an unarmed woman beheaded on the city gate and previously she destroyed the Sept of Baelor and leveled a part of the city....bit late now to be establishing that she's worried about her image all of a sudden.

Cianos

In two minds about the episode.

It's GOT so it's of course going to be interesting to see how the plot develops given how invested everyone is in the show. But I think that's what they're skimming by on by now and can get away with what seems like a fairly sloppy episode in and of itself.

What's most disappointing is how fickle they are with the world and its rules - show some time having passed between Winterfell and Kingslanding, 3-4 seconds worth of shots showing the boats traverse the seas, or the dragons flying across the landscape. This teleportation back and forth really takes you out of it as your brain is trying to catch up with what might be happening.

Also, they've essentially negated any impact or weight the dragons have on the war. After such a long buildup of their relevance and how revered they were across the world, they're actually not that useful at all because they can be taken out in an instant where their mother is simply enjoying her flight around her enemy's stronghold (I rechecked and she's smiling away, admiring her dragon). Is it recklessness on Dany's part because how can't you see a fleet of enemy ships, from the air, or just that they want to get rid of another dragon to even the odds and make it easier to create uncertainty. Just feels like super lazy story writing to me.

Tikki Wang Wang

Cianos wrote: »

In two minds about the episode.

It's GOT so it's of course going to be interesting to see how the plot develops given how invested everyone is in the show. But I think that's what they're skimming by on by now and can get away with what seems like a fairly sloppy episode in and of itself.

What's most disappointing is how fickle they are with the world and its rules - show some time having passed between Winterfell and Kingslanding, 3-4 seconds worth of shots showing the boats traverse the seas, or the dragons flying across the landscape. This teleportation back and forth really takes you out of it as your brain is trying to catch up with what might be happening.

Also, they've essentially negated any impact or weight the dragons have on the war. After such a long buildup of their relevance and how revered they were across the world, they're actually not that useful at all because they can be taken out in an instant where their mother is simply enjoying her flight around her enemy's stronghold (I rechecked and she's smiling away, admiring her dragon). Is it recklessness on Dany's part because how can't you see a fleet of enemy ships, from the air, or just that they want to get rid of another dragon to even the odds and make it easier to create uncertainty. Just feels like super lazy story writing to me.

It’s just poor poor writing. A sickening end to what was a great show

How Soon Is Now

Cianos wrote: »

In two minds about the episode.

It's GOT so it's of course going to be interesting to see how the plot develops given how invested everyone is in the show. But I think that's what they're skimming by on by now and can get away with what seems like a fairly sloppy episode in and of itself.

What's most disappointing is how fickle they are with the world and its rules - show some time having passed between Winterfell and Kingslanding, 3-4 seconds worth of shots showing the boats traverse the seas, or the dragons flying across the landscape. This teleportation back and forth really takes you out of it as your brain is trying to catch up with what might be happening.

Also, they've essentially negated any impact or weight the dragons have on the war. After such a long buildup of their relevance and how revered they were across the world, they're actually not that useful at all because they can be taken out in an instant where their mother is simply enjoying her flight around her enemy's stronghold (I rechecked and she's smiling away, admiring her dragon). Is it recklessness on Dany's part because how can't you see a fleet of enemy ships, from the air, or just that they want to get rid of another dragon to even the odds and make it easier to create uncertainty. Just feels like super lazy story writing to me.

Everything in this show that was once made to look incredibly powerful has been made to look weak late in the game.

lawlolawl

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blfyty/written_by_david_benioff_db_weiss/

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Might have agreed with you before this last episode..

It's been explained in this thread why she broke down like she did. I thought it made perfect sense.

How Soon Is Now

lawlolawl wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blfyty/written_by_david_benioff_db_weiss/

Ive never seen that before this moment now it all makes sense :pac:

namloc1980

Brienne being heartbroken was about the only thing that actually made sense in this episode, nearly everything else was nonsense:

Jon/Aegon: I have something to tell you.
Sansa/Arya: Ok.
Jon/Aegon: Bran, tell them.
CUT TO NEXT SCENE.

WTF?

Tired Gardener

The only good things about this episode were the scene with Sansa and the Hound.

Varys finally remembered he has the ability to talk. Always liked his scheming and plotting. Him and Tyrion have great dialogue.

Made me awful thirsty for a Starbucks coffee for some reason... can't quite point my finger on it.

At this stage, it is what it is... popcorn entertainment.

lawlolawl

https://twitter.com/HashtagGriswold/status/1125476882760327169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1125476882760327169&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.somethingawful.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Fthreadid%3D3821570%26userid%3D0%26perpage%3D40%26pagenumber%3D327

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgVt_toaEzg

Paddy Cow

Cianos wrote: »

Also, they've essentially negated any impact or weight the dragons have on the war.

The logical solution to the scorpions is to simply attack at night. Dany would still be able to see her target from the air but they wouldn't be able to see her. Of course everyone including Dany is going to be too stupid to think of that.

The scorpions shouldn't even be that big of a deal. After Dany managed to evade every shot Euron fired at her, she should've had enough time before they reloaded to BBQ the entire fleet. Instead she retreated when her enemy was at their most vulnerable They could've easily made that scene more believable by having Euron stagger the launches and having a continuous attack which would be harder to evade.

Mr Crispy

For people complaining about Kings Landing looking different, even looking like it's in a different location, Cersei has clearly had a mock up built á la Blazing Saddles. It will be seen as the greatest military manoeuvre in Westerosi history.

lawlolawl

lawlolawl wrote: »

https://twitter.com/HashtagGriswold/status/1125476882760327169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1125476882760327169&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.somethingawful.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Fthreadid%3D3821570%26userid%3D0%26perpage%3D40%26pagenumber%3D327

It's mad, they're actually doing way more harm than good with these 'Inside the episode' pieces.

After The Battle of Winterfell, they said it was effectively the end of the Dothraki. In the very next episode, Varys is talking about using the Dothraki against Cersei's forces at Kings Landing.

But sure, D+D look half asleep or disinterested when giving those interviews.

5star02707

this closing season is all very ham-fisted.

tying things up and endings are often the weakest points of movies and tv series.

proving to be very much the case here also.

Brock Turnpike

lawred2 wrote: »

At this stage - to enjoy GOT (it being obvious fantasy aside) suspension of disbelief is required.

I'm glad you've pointed this out. There was me thinking dragons, and dead armies looking to take over the world was real. Been ****ting myself watching this show.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

The timelines are a joke at this stage... for some much to and froing of armies up and down the length of the Seven Kingdoms while Cersei still not showing a bump is stupid...

At this stage - to enjoy GOT (it being obvious fantasy aside) suspension of disbelief is required.

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

I'm glad you've pointed this out. There was me thinking dragons, and dead armies looking to take over the world was real. Been ****ting myself watching this show.

yeah top burnz dude

pity I made that exact point already though - you even quoted it

Conall Cernach

Deleted User wrote: »

It's mad, they're actually doing way more harm than good with these 'Inside the episode' pieces.

After The Battle of Winterfell, they said it was effectively the end of the Dothraki. In the very next episode, Varys is talking about using the Dothraki against Cersei's forces at Kings Landing.

But sure, D+D look half asleep or disinterested when giving those interviews.

But even if the Dothraki had taken an absolute hammering and lost 90% of their forces they'd still have thousands left to face Cersei.

OptimusTractor

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

For people complaining about Kings Landing looking different, even looking like it's in a different location, Cersei has clearly had a mock up built á la Blazing Saddles. It will be seen as the greatest military manoeuvre in Westerosi history.

Where's Mongo?

Melodeon

OptimusTractor wrote: »

Where's Mongo?

"Mongo only pawn in game of life thrones!"

is_that_so

Brendan Filone wrote: »

I don't agree here, the showrunners haven’t done anything to justify the “Mad Queen” angle they are forcing Dany towards. Almost nothing she’s done over the course of these past two seasons has been out of the realm of practicality or reason. She risked her life and her Dragon’s life to go help Jon and bring proof that the White Walker threat was real. She then put her own ambitions for the throne on hold to bring her entire army North to assist in the great war, fought in said war, proving herself a courageous leader, and gets shit in return from the Northerners. Now she justlearns that the man she loves is her relative, with a stronger claim to the throne, and her first thought isn’t to kill or hurt him but to ask him to simply keep quiet about it.

I mean honestly, what the fuck has Dany done to incite such distrust in Varys to the point where he’s openly speaking of having her removed in favour of Jon?

Well, he needs to justify what they pay him! When was the last time he had any useful part to play in anything?

seligehgit

Are we to draw any significance to Tyrion and Bran's/the three eyed raven's conversation?

Most specifically Bran's response to Tyrion's comment that he was envious of Bran.

But Bran said not to be.

“Mostly I live in the past."

seligehgit

seligehgit wrote: »

Are we to draw any significance to Tyrion and Bran's/the three eyed raven's conversation?

Most specifically Bran's response to Tyrion's comment that he was envious of Bran.

But Bran said not to be.

“Mostly I live in the past."

Probably doesn't like to think of the last couple of seasons..

KikiLaRue

I'm finding the love stories between Arya and Gendry and Brienne and Jaime very rushed. It's hard to see what was the point in even doing them. Maybe they just needed a couple of women to lose their virginity in a manner that wasn't rape.

Tell me how

I foresee an appearance on Jeremy Kyle of Cersei, Jamie and Euron.

"The father of the baby is......... join us after the break".

Sonics2k

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I'm finding the love stories between Arya and Gendry and Brienne and Jaime very rushed. It's hard to see what was the point in even doing them. Maybe they just needed a couple of women to lose their virginity in a manner that wasn't rape.

I think the Arya/Gendry thing was a bit more fan service than anything, but it also doesn't appear Arya actually loves him (so far), more like she just wanted a shag.

The Jaime/Brienne thing has been a long time coming imo, basically built up since they both ventured together, Jaime becoming a new man and learning a lot more about what it means to be a Knight.

is_that_so

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I'm finding the love stories between Arya and Gendry and Brienne and Jaime very rushed. It's hard to see what was the point in even doing them. Maybe they just needed a couple of women to lose their virginity in a manner that wasn't rape.

Arya was for one night only and pure lust, the other one has been brewing but yeah convenient that it's "a last night in this world" scenario that brought them to the fore.

Mr.Maroon

Four episodes in and I can't do it anymore.... The moaning and pedantic criticism in these episode threads is too much.

I'm done!

is_that_so

Mr.Maroon wrote: »

Four episodes in and I can't do it anymore.... The moaning and pedantic criticism in these episode threads is too much.

I'm done!

So, the show? The thread? Or both?

NuMarvel

Brendan Filone wrote: »

I don't agree here, the showrunners haven’t done anything to justify the “Mad Queen” angle they are forcing Dany towards. Almost nothing she’s done over the course of these past two seasons has been out of the realm of practicality or reason.

She risked her life and her dragon’s life to go help Jon and bring proof that the White Walker threat was real. She then put her own ambitions for the throne on hold to bring her entire army North to assist in the great war, fought in said war, proving herself a courageous leader, and gets shit in return from the Northerners. Now she just learns that the man she loves is her relative, with a stronger claim to the throne, and her first thought isn’t to kill or hurt him but to ask him to simply keep quiet about it.

I mean honestly, what has Dany done to incite such distrust in Varys to the point where he’s openly speaking of having her removed in favour of Jon?

Since she got to Westeros, Dany's preferred, and only, strategy to take King's Landing is a full on assault on the city, innocents be damned. She's had to be talked out of this at least three times.

If Varys is really worried about protecting the realm, and the people in it, then it would make sense that he'd start questioning her suitability.

Fluorescence

I actually kinda feel for Danaerys. She gets sh*t from Sansa and the North even though they had no chance without her armies and dragons. Nobody in Westeros has any respect for her. She has lost most of her forces fighting a war that nobody has acknowledged her for. Jon is getting all the love and respect of the northerners even though his sole contribution to the Battle of Winterfell was to scream at a dragon right before Arya saved his arse. Jon has only ever had one good idea in his life (letting the wildlings cross the wall) and is being touted as some amazing leader and worthy King.

She's lost Ser Barristan, Ser Jorah, Missandei, Jon, two of her dragons/kids and can probably sense Tyrion and Varys pulling away as well.

The reasons for most of her losses are admittedly crappy writing, but I wouldn't blame Dany for going full crazy Targo at this stage, and it's certainly what they're setting up for by the look of things.

I also would love to see Jon die at this stage. He has no business surviving impossible situations one after the other. If he ends up on the throne at the end I'll be very disappointed.