"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the S" - Spoilers post 2 fo

RonanP77

I honestly don't know what all the complaining is about. It was another entertaining episode and everyone I talk to that watches it is really enjoying this season, whether they're book readers or have just watched the series.

Mr.Maroon

is_that_so wrote: »

So, the show? The thread? Or both?

The threads.

Fluorescence

RonanP77 wrote: »

I honestly don't know what all the complaining is about. It was another entertaining episode and everyone I talk to that watches it is really enjoying this season, whether they're book readers or have just watched the series.

I loved this episode, flaws and all. It felt like things were finally happening :pac:

is_that_so

Fluorescence wrote: »

I actually kinda feel for Danaerys. She gets sh*t from Sansa and the North even though they had no chance without her armies and dragons. Nobody in Westeros has any respect for her. She has lost most of her forces fighting a war that nobody has acknowledged her for. Jon is getting all the love and respect of the northerners even though his sole contribution to the Battle of Winterfell was to scream at a dragon right before Arya saved his arse. Jon has only ever had one good idea in his life (letting the wildlings cross the wall) and is being touted as some amazing leader and worthy King.

She's lost Ser Barristan, Ser Jorah, Missandei, Jon, two of her dragons/kids and can probably sense Tyrion and Varys pulling away as well.

The reasons for most of her losses are admittedly crappy writing, but I wouldn't blame Dany for going full crazy Targo at this stage, and it's certainly what they're setting up for by the look of things.

I also would love to see Jon die at this stage. He has no business surviving impossible situations one after the other. If he ends up on the throne at the end I'll be very disappointed.

I think the next one should provide for the departure of some of the top listed.

KikiLaRue

is_that_so wrote: »

Arya was for one night only and pure lust, the other one has been brewing but yeah convenient that it's "a last night in this world" scenario that brought them to the fore.

I quite like the Brienne and Jaime storyline, I just think getting together and breaking up over the course of ONE episode is extremely rushed!

is_that_so

Mr.Maroon wrote: »

The threads.

Let it go! You don't have to be here!

is_that_so

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I quite like the Brienne and Jaime storyline, I just think getting together and breaking up over the course of ONE episode is extremely rushed!

Yeah, it's like a cookery programme throwing up the one they made earlier without even preparing it.

RollieFingers

Teleporting all over the place, Dany and the gang "forgetting" about the Iron Fleet, the undead Dragon blowing a hole in Winterfells walls but not able to make a dent on the magic rock Jon Snow was hiding behind, Starbucks, just to name a few of the glaring mis-steps and inconsistencies on show. Shame to see it end like this, GOT used to feel like a show where everything mattered, it's lost it's way for me at this stage. Far from the greatest show ever on TV imo.

Sonics2k

I feel like people are really over playing the Starbucks cup thing.

There was a freaking car in the background of Braveheart, and I think in Gladiator too. These things happen quite often and you'd be amazed how many never get noticed.

Conall Cernach

Conall Cernach wrote: »

But even if the Dothraki had taken an absolute hammering and lost 90% of their forces they'd still have thousands left to face Cersei.

Exactly. So why is one of the showrunners telling us after The Long Night that "What we see is the end of the Dothraki essentially"? That's a fairly definitive statement. If there were a mere 100 of them left or even thousands as you suggest, there is no need for such a dramatic statement. The fact that Varys mentioned them in this episode as part of the army to be used in the battle for Kings Landing means there was no end to the Dothraki, "essentially" or otherwise.

That's two episodes in a row now where the writers thought they were offering insight and further exposition in their interviews, but completely contradict what they say in the interview versus what they wrote and produced for the screen.

There was "the end of the Dothraki essentially" in the last episode, and in this episode there was "Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet"...despite showing us two scenes before that her war commander Jon Snow very articulately mentioning the Iron Fleet and reassuring Dany of how they will deal with them...with her dragons.

Aside from all of that, this whole thing of the producers trying to tell more story outside the actual episode content is a joke to begin with. I like insights, 'making of' footage, anecdotes, all of that content, but not for the writers to tell me new info which their story should have shown.

Another example - D+D said that Arya stabbed the Night King in the same area of his torso where he was stabbed by the CofF in his creation, because that was the only way to kill him. Sorry...what?! When were we ever shown that in the series? Sure, that's how he was created but no character ever surmised that was the only way to kill him. Even Bran the Wise wasn't sure what would or wouldn't kill the NK when asked if dragon fire would be useful against him.

Again...it's another example of these 'Inside the Episode' interviews doing more harm than good - What we saw on screen with the NK dying was perfectly acceptable and in line with what the show had shown us so far; The Night King, a White Walker, was destroyed when stabbed with dragon glass, enough said. If they wanted us to know more than that, they should have shown it to us in the ample hours over the series, rather than told it to us in a BTS interview.

lawlolawl

RonanP77 wrote: »

I honestly don't know what all the complaining is about. It was another entertaining episode and everyone I talk to that watches it is really enjoying this season, whether they're book readers or have just watched the series.

People like that are the reason that the Kardashians are multimillionaires.


Switch off your brain and watch whatever tripe everyone else does so you'll have something to talk about during breaktime at work.


Don't put too much thought into it or wonder why big chunks of the show don't make sense at even a superficial level.

Keyzer

RollieFingers wrote: »

Teleporting all over the place, Dany and the gang "forgetting" about the Iron Fleet, the undead Dragon blowing a hole in Winterfells walls but not able to make a dent on the magic rock Jon Snow was hiding behind, Starbucks, just to name a few of the glaring mis-steps and inconsistencies on show. Shame to see it end like this, GOT used to feel like a show where everything mattered, it's lost it's way for me at this stage. Far from the greatest show ever on TV imo.

Apt and succinct.

Couldn't agree more.

walshb

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

The writing is really poor, some of the dialog is embarrassing.

I found the banter and celebrations/drinking at the start of the episode utter cringe!

Acting wise most of these people are grade C!

Skylinehead

I swear some people want to see the characters travelling for 3 weeks.

nix

Nixonbot wrote: »

I swear some people want to see the characters travelling for 3 weeks.

Nah i think they just want things to make sense, like the fundamentals of time :pac:

is_that_so

Nixonbot wrote: »

I swear some people want to see the characters travelling for 3 weeks.

It's the pacing really, One night in Winterfell lasted half an hour and they showed up in KL in three minutes flat. Even Missandei's death scene took longer than that.

SteM

I don't see a lot of this as 'pedantic criticism' to be honest, a lot a people are pointing out obvious issues with character actions, the plotting and the pacing of the season.

Sonics2k

Sonics2k wrote: »

I feel like people are really over playing the Starbucks cup thing.

There was a freaking car in the background of Braveheart, and I think in Gladiator too. These things happen quite often and you'd be amazed how many never get noticed.

I could agree and had thought the very same about Gladiator when I first saw the Starbucks pic, but then this thought immediately occurred to me - Gladiator is somewhere on the scale of a great movie to a modern masterpiece. Likewise with Braveheart. Whatever flaws they have or mistakes, you can forgive or overlook them such is the piece's overall quality.

If this Starbucks thing happened in season 4 or earlier, you would just laugh it off and put it in a similar bracket to Gladiator and Braveheart. In isolation, the Starbucks cup is not an issue. I think for many people though, it just sums up the level of care given to the show in its latter days.

.....................................................................

People are complaining of nit-picking in this thread, when mainstream US publications are running articles on how disappointed fans of the show are with its final season. The disappointment exists way outside of this thread.

To give an example of nit-picking, but something I can totally overlook - The opening scene at Winterfell in this episode with the funeral pyres. Some magnificent shots, I was moved with Jorah's farewell and Jon's speech for the dead, the whole scene was pretty effective. However, there was no sign of the huge burning trench outside Winterfell from the episode/battle before. To go even further, in all this week's Winterfell scenes...no sign that The Great War had happened at all really, that zombies over-ran and largely decimated the place, that an undead dragon plowed through walls and courtyards. It was all just normal Winterfell again apart from the funeral pyres. People can say 'sure months could have passed'...well no, months couldn't have passed, not while we see the fresh corpses of Jorah and Theon etc, not while Dany is stating how quickly she wants to keep moving towards KL and Sansa is saying 'It's too soon, sure our troops are still fúcked'.

Anyway, that would be nit-picking but because of the overall quality of that opening funeral scene, it doesn't bother me.

Sittingpretty

lawlolawl wrote: »

People like that are the reason that the Kardashians are multimillionaires.


Switch off your brain and watch whatever tripe everyone else does so you'll have something to talk about during breaktime at work.


Don't put too much thought into it or wonder why big chunks of the show don't make sense at even a superficial level.

Does being that pompous and condescending come naturally or did you require special training?

is_that_so

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Does being that pompous and condescending come naturally or did you require special training?

Winning the interweb does that to you! The challenge is to resist the temptation to rebut it!

ednwireland

Deleted User wrote: »

There was "the end of the Dothraki essentially" in the last episode, and in this episode there was "Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet"...despite showing us two scenes before that her war commander Jon Snow very articulately mentioning the Iron Fleet and reassuring Dany of how they will deal with them...with her dragons.

maybe not forgot but didnt expect them to all be armed firing scorpions if they had turned up without them they would have fried.

Tikki Wang Wang

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/05/06/every-bad-moment-from-last-nights-disappointing-game-of-thrones/amp/



Its absolutely roasted on Forbes review


“Last night’s Game of Thrones was not like the previous week’s, where you could debate whether or not the epic Battle of Winterfell was good or not. Rather, it was a bad episode made up of a string of unequivocally bad moments that I was disappointed to see unfold this late in the game.“

Skylinehead

is_that_so wrote: »

It's the pacing really, One night in Winterfell lasted half an hour and they showed up in KL in three minutes flat. Even Missandei's death scene took longer than that.

But what do you actually want? Nothing of use is going to happen in a 2 week journey to Dragonstone. I know pacing is different to the first few seasons with travel, but at this point there's nothing to gain from walking around the place.

If we have to do first-season standards for every journey at this point, there'll be twenty seasons. And that's not feasible. I do think they're rushing it a bit, some things like plot points need to be added, but not more lengthy journeys.

Ping Chow Chi

I have a feeling I'm going to be so annoyed at how this series finishes.

lawlolawl

Nixonbot wrote: »

But what do you actually want? Nothing of use is going to happen in a 2 week journey to Dragonstone. I know pacing is different to the first few seasons with travel, but at this point there's nothing to gain from walking around the place.

If we have to do first-season standards for every journey at this point, there'll be twenty seasons. And that's not feasible. I do think they're rushing it a bit, some things like plot points need to be added, but not more lengthy journeys.

Some indicator that traveling places still takes time would do.


They are literally just teleporting people 100s of miles to have scenes with each other because D&D don't give two ****s about the show making sense any more.

TerrorFirmer

It's not that it needs an exact measure of time. Just a lot more happening in between, which is why the show desperately need at least two more 10-episode runs to do justice to material that was so methodically and consistently crafted before it.

Instead they're racing to the finish line so fast they have no time for any desperately-needed world, character or arc building - even with regards to the barebone core plots, let alone doing justice to secondary plots and characters.

No-one's saying Dany should be setting off from the North in S08E01 and only arriving in S08E10, but it certainly should take longer than the time it would take to boil a kettle.

You said it yourself - more plot points needed rather than lengthy journeys. But longer journeys (and once again no-one's calling for a return to S1 standards) mean more time to devote to other important plot points in-between, as the show always did.

The way the pacing has changed, it's like asking someone to turn up the volume slightly on the TV and they immediately go from 15 to 100....instead of trying 25 or 30 first. The show runners are 100% to blame as they declined two more full season runs in favor of this format.

Looking back on S7, I thought the pacing was extremely jarring....but so far, S8 is twice as bad. There simply isn't enough time, and the show's turning into a high quality b-movie as a result.

is_that_so

Nixonbot wrote: »

But what do you actually want? Nothing of use is going to happen in a 2 week journey to Dragonstone. I know pacing is different to the first few seasons with travel, but at this point there's nothing to gain from walking around the place.

If we have to do first-season standards for every journey at this point, there'll be twenty seasons. And that's not feasible. I do think they're rushing it a bit, some things like plot points need to be added, but not more lengthy journeys.

Who said it was about journeys? I think the scene with the pyres deserved its time and more. The muddled and confused overlong carousing and bonking afterwards not so much. Some of that would have sat better in the previous scene. All of a sudden there a map room meeting and hey presto they arrive in KL, one dragon down to a guy who seems pretty thick and of a one track mind but somehow outwits everyone else. Now if they could have plugged some of these holes I think most people would be happier with it. I accept it's a bridge to the battle but they really could have used better materials.

And it's the two lads that insisted on it being the two seasons of six episodes..

They should never be let near a camera again..

The teleportation is something I just accepted as part of GoT since season 7. Once we heard there was going to be 6 episodes this season, we knew that trend would continue. At least its consistent ever since the rules were broken.

is_that_so

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

I have a feeling I'm going to be so annoyed at how this series finishes.

I think that potential does exist.

Skylinehead

lawlolawl wrote: »

Some indicator that traveling places still takes time would do.

Bigger beards?

PressRun

Ping Chow Chi wrote: »

I have a feeling I'm going to be so annoyed at how this series finishes.

I think a lot of people will be. I read somewhere recently that some of the actors in the show were not pleased with how it ended and what happened with their characters' arcs.


On the Brienne/Jamie thing, I wasn't sold on that. And what was even more weird about it was the lads essentially teasing Brienne for being a virgin? Seemed a very modern bit of banter for the times the show is set in, especially considering Jamie lost a hand in order to defend her virtue a few seasons ago. Surely unmarried women of a certain social standing would be expected to be virgins and it would actually be frowned upon for them not to be? It's even a little unseemly of Tyrion to even bring it up, I thought?

Asus X540L

Game of Thrones has officially joined the ranks of Dexter, Boardwalk Empire, Lost, (and many others) in that club of starting brilliantly, finishing ****.

I guess if you look at something like True Detective. First season was amazing, next two were crap.
For HBO there must be crazy deadlines. The writer of True Detective was probably thinking about that story all his life. Then HBO want another season within a year. Must be extremely difficult to come out with something, especially something to compare to season 1.
With Game of Thrones they ran out of source material and had to come up with stuff themselves within HBO deadlines and budgets. You could tell HBO stopped writing cheques in episode 4 with the King's Landing parlay. Looked like Dany, Tyrion, Greyworm and 50 poorly rendered CGI unsullied.
I think HBO just want to wash their hands of GoT at this stage.

NuMarvel

I think this episode would have worked better as two standard length episodes, with the first one ending on the Dragonstone ambush. It would fix the pacing issues with the episode and allow more time for characterisation.

For example, show more of Sansa deciding to break her promise to Jon and Arya deciding to leave. Build up Jamie's and Brienne's relationship in the first episode, so her reaction to him leaving is a bit more believable.

And I'd like a bit more in King's Landing, because for a city that's meant to be the capital of the country, it's feeling very insular. Have some scenes between Cersei and Missandei, if for no other reason than to let Lena Headey interact with someone other than Qyburn or Euron.

Overall, the episode wasn't bad, Euron's cloaking technology aside, but I think it would have been better served with more character focus.

lawlolawl

Deleted User wrote: »

And it's the two lads that insisted on it being the two seasons of six episodes..

They should never be let near a camera again..

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/gy8baw/the-game-of-thrones-creators-are-pivoting-to-star-wars-vgtrn

They're doing a trilogy of Star Wars movies next.

NomadicGray

lawlolawl wrote: »

Some indicator that traveling places still takes time would do.

Perhaps something obvious like cercei actually looking pregnant

namloc1980

lawlolawl wrote: »

Some indicator that traveling places still takes time would do.


They are literally just teleporting people 100s of miles to have scenes with each other because D&D don't give two ****s about the show making sense any more.

The Lord of the Rings did it excellently. A few sweeping landscape shots of our heroes on the move to set up the next scene. Only takes a few seconds but you get the sense they were traveling/on the move over large distances.

Tell me how

Asus X540L wrote: »

Game of Thrones has officially joined the ranks of Dexter, Boardwalk Empire, Lost, (and many others) in that club of starting brilliantly, finishing ****.

I guess if you look at something like True Detective. First season was amazing, next two were crap.
For HBO there must be crazy deadlines. The writer of True Detective was probably thinking about that story all his life. Then HBO want another season within a year. Must be extremely difficult to come out with something, especially something to compare to seaosn 1.
With Game of Thrones they ran out of source material and had to come up with stuff themselves within HBO deadlines and budgets. You could tell HBO stop writing cheques in episode 4 with the King's Landing parlay. Looked like Dany, Tyrion, Greyworm and 50 poorly rendered CGI unsullied.
I think HBO just want to wash their hands of GoT at this stage.

Why would this be the case?
Season 8 opener broke records in the UK and US for total number who watched it.
The numbers have increased season on season.

Asus X540L

Tell me how wrote: »

Why would this be the case?
Season 8 opener broke records in the UK and US for total number who watched it.
The numbers have increased season on season.

Be that as it may, I'd imagine the scale make this more trouble than its worth.
They probably just want to get back promoting boxing.

Effects

I'm leaning towards Sansa aiding Tyrion to become King, and she'll be Queen.

KikiLaRue

Asus X540L wrote: »

Be that as it may, I'd imagine the scale make this more trouble than its worth.
They probably just want to get back promoting boxing.

This is a very silly point of view.

An extremely popular and profitable show "Yeah let's just get this off our hands as quick as we can..."

lawred2

Asus X540L wrote: »

Game of Thrones has officially joined the ranks of Dexter, Boardwalk Empire, Lost, (and many others) in that club of starting brilliantly, finishing ****.

I guess if you look at something like True Detective. First season was amazing, next two were crap.
For HBO there must be crazy deadlines. The writer of True Detective was probably thinking about that story all his life. Then HBO want another season within a year. Must be extremely difficult to come out with something, especially something to compare to season 1.
With Game of Thrones they ran out of source material and had to come up with stuff themselves within HBO deadlines and budgets. You could tell HBO stopped writing cheques in episode 4 with the King's Landing parlay. Looked like Dany, Tyrion, Greyworm and 50 poorly rendered CGI unsullied.
I think HBO just want to wash their hands of GoT at this stage.

disagree

Asus X540L

KikiLaRue wrote: »

This is a very silly point of view.

An extremely popular and profitable show "Yeah let's just get this off our hands as quick as we can..."

Haven't really read any positive reviews of this season (from reputable sources)
I'd imagine HBO are glad its watch has ended.
It had its day in the sun.
I'd imagine if season 9 came along figures would be annihilated, especially after this mess. This season was billed as the ultimate showdown between light and darkness, good versus evil etc. Of course figures are going to start off positive. Plus remember people have invested 8 years of their lives in this.

There's a spin off coming isn't there? Hopefully D&D will have nothing to do with it.

is_that_so

Tell me how wrote: »

Why would this be the case?
Season 8 opener broke records in the UK and US for total number who watched it.
The numbers have increased season on season.

Overall it has held up as the weak in each season has consistently been outshone by some great moments but some of the more recent seasons have not been good. The problem is that by season 4 or 5 of a show you're invested and you have to keep watching, some will still enjoy it, some do it out of habit and some just can't break away. GOT is such a huge phenomenon that it will grow numbers as people moved to it out of curiosity first. Once you're in you make excuses to keep watching, find things you like and a good episode or two can reassure you your time is not being wasted.

The only thing on TV that's similar in pull is(was) TWD. That has been poor overall for at least 3 seasons yet still pulls in impressive numbers despite an equally large fall-off. It's heading for 10 and should see out a good few more seasons.

lawlolawl

KikiLaRue wrote: »

This is a very silly point of view.

An extremely popular and profitable show "Yeah let's just get this off our hands as quick as we can..."

They want shot of this particular version of it because it is too expensive.


The planned spin-offs will have no-name actors that they won't pay as much as the current crew and the CGI budget will be cut to the bone.

Brock Turnpike

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

I'm glad you've pointed this out. There was me thinking dragons, and dead armies looking to take over the world was real. Been ****ting myself watching this show.

This is the default response when someone complains about suspension of disbelief in anything which isn't a gritty drama.

The show previously showed us King Robert Baratheon succumbing to injuries and infection after being mortally wounded by a bore. The show set up this logic and 'belief' early on - that people in this world are mortal and can die in 'real' situations.

That was season 1, where Robert Baratheon was retching from the stink of his own infected wounds and eventually died from them...and where the show-writers had quality source material to adapt. Move on to Season 6 where they are creating the original material themselves - Arya Stark is gutted by a killing machine intent on killing her and ends up bleeding in the shít-filled canals of Bravos. What happens? Some rest, a bit of soup and a few words from Lady Crane later and Arya is back on her feet taking part in the most intense chase scene of the series and survives it.

That's how people can rightfully complain about suspension of disbelief in a show which features dragons and magic.

valoren

namloc1980 wrote: »

The Lord of the Rings did it excellently. A few sweeping landscape shots of our heroes on the move to set up the next scene. Only takes a few seconds but you get the sense they were traveling/on the move over large distances.

Could have also done a 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' homage with the means of travel superimposed/intercut with a travelling line over the map of Westeros along with some a swelling of the score to show major geographical movements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TY5Fp6O5iM

lawred2

Tikki Wang Wang wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/05/06/every-bad-moment-from-last-nights-disappointing-game-of-thrones/amp/



Its absolutely roasted on Forbes review


“Last night’s Game of Thrones was not like the previous week’s, where you could debate whether or not the epic Battle of Winterfell was good or not. Rather, it was a bad episode made up of a string of unequivocally bad moments that I was disappointed to see unfold this late in the game.“

I'd agree with most of those but the first one is a bit soft...

The bedding of Brienne would have better after the 'knighting' - why exactly? Because it would have been sweeter than Jaime turning up at her door hammered? Seriously - whatever... GOT is certainly open to criticism but complaining because a scene wasn't sweet enough or romantic enough is weak...

Loafing Oaf

seligehgit wrote: »

Are we to draw any significance to Tyrion and Bran's/the three eyed raven's conversation?

Most specifically Bran's response to Tyrion's comment that he was envious of Bran.

But Bran said not to be.

“Mostly I live in the past."

i think we can take it as a general rule of GoT storylines not based directly on the books that any indication of depth or subtlety is probably all in the mind of the viewer...

Paddy Cow

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I quite like the Brienne and Jaime storyline, I just think getting together and breaking up over the course of ONE episode is extremely rushed!

I'm not sold on that tbh. I always thought they had a mutual respect for each other and any love was platonic. Jamie has always been loyal to Cersei. After Tyrion embarrassed Brienne about being a virgin, I could see Jamie going to her and the two of them having sex and in the morning Brienne saying something like "I hope you don't think this means I want to marry you and have your babies". Then when Jamie was leaving, Brienne could still have tried to talk him out of it but he still leaves. Even if Cersei was already dead, I couldn't see Brienne and Jamie living as a happy couple.