Aeroflot Sukhoi Superjet 100 Catches Fire

BowSideChamp

Pilots may not have been qualified to fly the plane per news reports https://nypost.com/2019/05/06/both-flight-recorders-recovered-from-burned-russian-plane/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

Hector Savage

Nijmegen wrote: »

Russia, and its precursor state (from where most high officials in office today would have trained) does not have the best reputation for honesty and transparency in any field, no.

Agreed, just look at Chernobyl

Brennus335

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Pilots may not have been qualified to fly the plane per news reports https://nypost.com/2019/05/06/both-flight-recorders-recovered-from-burned-russian-plane/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

I wouldn't read that into that report. Sounds just like a standard media "holding statement" from somebody who really doesn't know what they're doing.

skallywag

Nijmegen wrote: »

The passenger luggage thing will get a lot of attention...

It will, but I wonder will any thing change? Somehow I am skeptical. I can recall the exact same happening in any similar event, with the same outrage at the time.

I think that the only way to prevent this will be to lock the overhead storage from the cockpit and insist that no bags or computers etc. are allowed outside of it at any time.

You just cannot rely on people to act in any pre-determined way in such an event, you need to take the element of choice out of the equation.

wdmfapq4zs83hv

Carry on should be stopped. No exceptions. All luggage in hold. It's a pain and holds everyone up, trying to find space in the overhead bins. And that's without the contribution to loss of life yesterday.

Tenger

Deagol wrote: »

Is it just my imagination or is that crew member with hand luggage plus she appears to be wearing high heels??

Not sure what black item is but item to the right is a megaphone.

Back in my day we were instructed to take (if possible) megaphone, first aid kit and extinguisher.

martinsvi

Although I'm happy this accident is yet again bringing attention to evacuation procedures and why people should leave their bags behind, this time around I'm feeling that the bag issue is blown out of the proportion a little bit.

In the videos posted here and around the web I have not seen a single suitcase or any larger item of baggage - the largest item I saw was a backpack, all other items seem to be personal items like jackets, purses and other items that might have been on the person the entire time.

There was a comment posted in one of the media outlets from one of the CC, she said people were pushing for exits before even plane had come to a halt. It doesn't sound like a sort of scenario where people in the mid/back section would wait patiently for the pax upfront to grab their bags. The evacuation from the video seems prompt, people are getting out without gaps or stops that would suggest any bag-grabbing-delay.

People all over the web are jumping to blame the survivors of manslaughter without any substantial evidence. For all we know, flames could have gotten into midsection cornering people into back without any usable exits there.

..this is the time when I would like to remind the justice warriors of the web about a certain Vitaly Kaloyev who went on to murder a German ATCo simply because there were media reports pointing their fingers before any sort of investigation was finished. The names of the surviving passengers have been published and there's a lot of people who might be seeking for some form of "justice".

Nijmegen

Martinsvi-If you view the videos of people coming down the slide, there’s a distinct slowdown as soon as people are coming out with bags.

martinsvi

Nijmegen wrote: »

Martinsvi-If you view the videos of people coming down the slide, there’s a distinct slowdown as soon as people are coming out with bags.

the videos I've seen are so grainy you cant distinctly tell whether someone is holding a bag or a jacket, you can't tell if they're slowing down because they're carrying something or because they have inhaled lots of smoke, have suffered some trauma or are of certain age where moving is difficult

2011abc

ED E wrote: »

Fintan Ryan is a terrrrrible radio guest. All over the shop. Surely MI could get somebody better...

Is this the guy who defended Boeing like he was a shareholder the morning after the 737 Max crash/es?

Nijmegen

martinsvi wrote: »

the videos I've seen are so grainy you cant distinctly tell whether someone is holding a bag or a jacket, you can't tell if they're slowing down because they're carrying something or because they have inhaled lots of smoke, have suffered some trauma or are of certain age where moving is difficult

You can see it pretty clearly in the video I posted in #34.

martinsvi

Nijmegen wrote: »

You can see it pretty clearly in the video I posted in #34.

I can see that at around 25th second of the video there seems to be a pause in between otherwise very rapid evacuation and then when the flow resumes there seems to be a pax going down the slide what looks like a sizable bag flying over his/her head. At the same time evacuation is uninterrupted on the opposite slide and this is effectively fed through the same aisle. We don't know for sure whether this person actually slowed anybody down or he was one of the last ones capable of leaving and was simply in position to grab his bag without hurting anyone.

Again I want to stress this - I completely condemn this sort of action but I don't think there's enough evidence to claim that this particular passenger or any other of them slowed the evacuation down or doomed the stranded victims

There are lots of angry folk on the web shaking their heads in disgust but you never know how you would act in this sort of scenario, don't be too quick with throwing stones. As pax people are programmed to behave a certain way - you get on the plane, put your bag down, sit down, buckle up. To get out of the plane you do the same sequence the opposite way. Once you face panic, you don't think, you don't consider your belongings, your looks, whatever else, you revert to your motor memory - in this case - unbuckle, get up, grab your bag, go! Even trained professionals get things wrong during emergencies, you can't expect untrained pax to do everything correctly and in a rational way!

On a final note - I was listening to a talk by a Psychologist recently where she was discussing peoples behavior regarding road-rage. She mentioned "an office paradox" - it's a situation where if you as an individual leave dirty dishes behind on a shared lunch table, you always have an excuse - you are late for something, you got called in a meeting, you are tired, you have to take an important call etc... however once you see someone else do the same, you just assume they did it because they are lazy and ignorant! Your mistakes always have an excuse, other people mistakes come down to their personalities! I draw a lot of parallels here to this accident - you have outraged sofa people in their hundreds slamming their keyboards, but if they would face a similar situation, trust me, they would all have an excuse!

Nijmegen

Yeah, I've been reading a bit into it today. The BA flight into Las Vegas for example, people explicitly reported telling others to leave their bags behind and were ignored. The Emirates plane that caught fire - and a fire fighter subsequently died in the blaze - also had a lot of onboard footage of people essentially milling around not in a panic. I think it has more to do with selfishness.

Mahony0509

I'm struggling to understand why emergency services weren't on standby beside the runway. Any other country and the plane would be followed down the runway but an engine.

john boye

Nijmegen wrote: »

Yeah, I've been reading a bit into it today. The BA flight into Las Vegas for example, people explicitly reported telling others to leave their bags behind and were ignored. The Emirates plane that caught fire - and a fire fighter subsequently died in the blaze - also had a lot of onboard footage of people essentially milling around not in a panic. I think it has more to do with selfishness.

I've often wondered if all the successful evacuations the last few years have made people kind of nonchalant about them and images of people getting off planes in emergency situations with their bags in hand with no fatalities lead people to think it's absolutely fine to do it. Perhaps this one will change attitudes?

road_high

Mahony0509 wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why emergency services weren't on standby beside the runway. Any other country and the plane would be followed down the runway but an engine.

Indeed. And in most cases as a precaution and not needed...this was very definitely an incident where they needed instant fire assistance and it wasn’t there, sadly

vicwatson

ED E wrote: »

Fintan Ryan is a terrrrrible radio guest. All over the shop. Surely MI could get somebody better...

Absolutely dreadful

Gaoth Laidir

The idea that there were no thunderstorms just because the metars or SIGMETs didn't show them (if that's true) is wrong. Around the time of the accident the metars reported scattered Cb at 5500-6000 ft. High-based Cb like that can easily produce lightning without thunder being heard by an observer on the ground. In any case the plane was not right overhead the airport when struck so local reports are irrelevant. Satellite images show some patchy cells in a wide area around Moscow and further beyond at that time.