Aeroflot Sukhoi Superjet 100 Catches Fire

Nijmegen

Brennus335 wrote: »

AAIU report specifically addressed it:

http://www.aaiu.ie/node/408

Interesting quote from it:

the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) of the United States, in a Safety Study of 46 emergency evacuations published in 2000, identified that nearly 50 per cent of passengers who brought carry-on luggage on board attempted to remove a bag during emergency evacuations. Reports issued by other investigative authorities on other evacuations have found that some passengers have resisted the removal of carry-on baggage by cabin crew, thereby disrupting orderly evacuation.

People are selfish d-heads, in other words, and will literally start a row over it. The only solution is to tell people that if they get off with their hand baggage they're getting an automatic 6 month sentence and a five grand fine.

notharrypotter

Nijmegen wrote: »

If there was an incident, why weren't fire and rescue ready and waiting at the airport? There's some suggestion the aircraft lost all communications, but surely a 20-30 minute circling of the field doing weird turns might have alerted someone to a danger.

Fire service would have been advised that the aircraft was on the way back.
Fire service would have assessed the situation and made a decision to turn out/not turn out to pre arranged positions based on the information available.

Nijmegen

notharrypotter wrote: »

Fire service would have been advised that the aircraft was on the way back.
Fire service would have assessed the situation and made a decision to turn out/not turn out to pre arranged positions based on the information available.

I think it's now pretty widely reported that they squawked 7600 first (lost radio) and then 7700 (emergency) before landing. Most videos I've seen haven't featured them on the scene in any hasty time.

Meanwhile to the evacuation, you can see the very first passengers were lined up and come out like machinegun rounds. But then there's noticeable delay and slowing of egress, and yup, loads of cabin bags.

PukkaStukka

Was listening to Morning Ireland earlier where they had retired Capt Fintan Ryan in studio for comment and opinion.

He mentioned that there was no thunderstorms reported or forecast at the time of the accident, and a check on the METAR provided on AVHerald reports CB's but no storms. If true, it obviously rubbishes the claim that lightning was a factor

The podcast for this interview is here :

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21550057

PukkaStukka

Podcast link

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21550057

Mebuntu

I haven't seen any mention yet of the recorders being found. It will be interesting to see if they survived the total burnout of the rear of the aircraft.

ED E

I assume that tower has primary radar to maintain a track after a full loss of power? Very dodgey that the fire and rescue weren't sitting on taxiways.

Anteayer

A small % of people can be unbelievably stupid about stuff like this. I was in a high rise hotel in London and one night the fire alarms went off. The first issue was about 60% were wandering around wondering if it was a real fire and then when the fire officers in the hotel started yelling to evacuate and mustering people with megaphones, loads of morons were trying to drag suitcases down the stairs, blocking the way!

Nothing surprises me about people's inability to prioritise getting out over their (probably insured) bag of clothes and electronics.

Deagol

Brennus335 wrote: »

It already did happen in Ireland.




AAIU report specifically addressed it:

http://www.aaiu.ie/node/408

Is it just my imagination or is that crew member with hand luggage plus she appears to be wearing high heels??

Brennus335

Mebuntu wrote: »

I haven't seen any mention yet of the recorders being found. It will be interesting to see if they survived the total burnout of the rear of the aircraft.

Both recovered.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/both-flight-recorders-recovered-from-russian-plane-after-fatal-blaze-38082619.html

billie1b

Deagol wrote: »

Is it just my imagination or is that crew member with hand luggage plus she appears to be wearing high heels??

In certain circumstances cabin crew are required to bring their bag as it will have stuff like pax counts, manifests etc in it.

billie1b

notharrypotter wrote: »

Fire service would have been advised that the aircraft was on the way back.
Fire service would have assessed the situation and made a decision to turn out/not turn out to pre arranged positions based on the information available.

The fire service do not make that decision, if the tower or flight crew put the alert out the fire service have to turn out to positions, regardless if they think it warrants it or not.

ED E

Fintan Ryan is a terrrrrible radio guest. All over the shop. Surely MI could get somebody better...

mikeymouse

Nijmegen wrote: »

Interesting quote from it:



People are selfish d-heads, in other words, and will literally start a row over it. The only solution is to tell people that if they get off with their hand baggage they're getting an automatic 6 month sentence and a five grand fine.

The 'survivor guilt'will be life sentence, baggage or no baggage.

Hector Savage

ED E wrote: »

Fintan Ryan is a terrrrrible radio guest. All over the shop. Surely MI could get somebody better...

Yeah, he had a bit of a nightmare, I know how he feels, nothing worse when you understand something fully in your head but can't articulate cos of nerves etc...

Nijmegen

The passenger luggage thing will get a lot of attention as most of us will be in the cabin rather than the cockpit if we’re ever in an accident. This is something we can control for ourselves and that will affect us from others.

The bigger issue specific to this flight is of course the circumstances of the originating incident and the response to it. As I said above, Russian flag carrier flying Russian metal into Moscow airport, I do wonder just how robust the investigation will be. Or will they just find a scapegoat and hang them high.

CiboC

Nijmegen wrote: »

I do wonder just how robust the investigation will be.

Are you aware of any suspicions over the integrity of other recent investigations in Russia regarding crashes by Russian aircraft?

dreamliner

Nijmegen wrote: »

There's a few questions raised by this incident alright, but given it's the Russian flag carrier, flying a piece of Russian hardware, into a Russian airport, I wonder if the investigation will be totally transparent and trustworthy, or be more one of those Egyptian investigations.

So far, if it was a lightning strike that took out all electronics - (a) Was it the instigator at all, and (b) if it was, losing all electronics irreparably after a strike is odd.

If there was an incident, why weren't fire and rescue ready and waiting at the airport? There's some suggestion the aircraft lost all communications, but surely a 20-30 minute circling of the field doing weird turns might have alerted someone to a danger.

And finally, yes, the perennial "people and their luggage during an evacuation". Every ground evacuation I've seen video of has had people coming off with their hand luggage. Seems there needs to be some changes in commonly accepted law around this, that if you come off a plane during an evacuation with any sort of a bag you're going to prison.

There won't be a transparent investigation, plain and simple. In Russia there must be a hero or a villain, there isn't a middle ground. Aeroflot will not be blamed as they're the national carrier. The jet itself was Putin's baby and is struggling for business as it is, that certainly won't be blamed.

Already in Russian media they are talking about the accident being surprising because the SSJ100 has such a good safety record!. Anyone believing there will be a fair and correct investigation is living in la la land and has no experience of Russia from an aviation standpoint.

Here is also a clip of the recording from a Swiss birdstrike in St Petersburg for those wondering why the fire services took too long, the charade wouldn't be any different in Moscow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lICb8p9SvvM

Nijmegen

CiboC wrote: »

Are you aware of any suspicions over the integrity of other recent investigations in Russia regarding crashes by Russian aircraft?

Russia, and its precursor state (from where most high officials in office today would have trained) does not have the best reputation for honesty and transparency in any field, no.

CiboC

That's the answer to a different question from the one I asked....

BowSideChamp

Pilots may not have been qualified to fly the plane per news reports https://nypost.com/2019/05/06/both-flight-recorders-recovered-from-burned-russian-plane/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

Hector Savage

Nijmegen wrote: »

Russia, and its precursor state (from where most high officials in office today would have trained) does not have the best reputation for honesty and transparency in any field, no.

Agreed, just look at Chernobyl

Brennus335

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Pilots may not have been qualified to fly the plane per news reports https://nypost.com/2019/05/06/both-flight-recorders-recovered-from-burned-russian-plane/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

I wouldn't read that into that report. Sounds just like a standard media "holding statement" from somebody who really doesn't know what they're doing.

skallywag

Nijmegen wrote: »

The passenger luggage thing will get a lot of attention...

It will, but I wonder will any thing change? Somehow I am skeptical. I can recall the exact same happening in any similar event, with the same outrage at the time.

I think that the only way to prevent this will be to lock the overhead storage from the cockpit and insist that no bags or computers etc. are allowed outside of it at any time.

You just cannot rely on people to act in any pre-determined way in such an event, you need to take the element of choice out of the equation.

wdmfapq4zs83hv

Carry on should be stopped. No exceptions. All luggage in hold. It's a pain and holds everyone up, trying to find space in the overhead bins. And that's without the contribution to loss of life yesterday.

Tenger

Deagol wrote: »

Is it just my imagination or is that crew member with hand luggage plus she appears to be wearing high heels??

Not sure what black item is but item to the right is a megaphone.

Back in my day we were instructed to take (if possible) megaphone, first aid kit and extinguisher.

martinsvi

Although I'm happy this accident is yet again bringing attention to evacuation procedures and why people should leave their bags behind, this time around I'm feeling that the bag issue is blown out of the proportion a little bit.

In the videos posted here and around the web I have not seen a single suitcase or any larger item of baggage - the largest item I saw was a backpack, all other items seem to be personal items like jackets, purses and other items that might have been on the person the entire time.

There was a comment posted in one of the media outlets from one of the CC, she said people were pushing for exits before even plane had come to a halt. It doesn't sound like a sort of scenario where people in the mid/back section would wait patiently for the pax upfront to grab their bags. The evacuation from the video seems prompt, people are getting out without gaps or stops that would suggest any bag-grabbing-delay.

People all over the web are jumping to blame the survivors of manslaughter without any substantial evidence. For all we know, flames could have gotten into midsection cornering people into back without any usable exits there.

..this is the time when I would like to remind the justice warriors of the web about a certain Vitaly Kaloyev who went on to murder a German ATCo simply because there were media reports pointing their fingers before any sort of investigation was finished. The names of the surviving passengers have been published and there's a lot of people who might be seeking for some form of "justice".

Nijmegen

Martinsvi-If you view the videos of people coming down the slide, there’s a distinct slowdown as soon as people are coming out with bags.

martinsvi

Nijmegen wrote: »

Martinsvi-If you view the videos of people coming down the slide, there’s a distinct slowdown as soon as people are coming out with bags.

the videos I've seen are so grainy you cant distinctly tell whether someone is holding a bag or a jacket, you can't tell if they're slowing down because they're carrying something or because they have inhaled lots of smoke, have suffered some trauma or are of certain age where moving is difficult

2011abc

ED E wrote: »

Fintan Ryan is a terrrrrible radio guest. All over the shop. Surely MI could get somebody better...

Is this the guy who defended Boeing like he was a shareholder the morning after the 737 Max crash/es?