MG ZS BEV, 44kWh

Black_Knight

Markcheese wrote: »

Does Regen really return all that much energy to the battery ?
I just assumed it's s largeish car ,probably not optimised for electric drive ,

Look at what regen does for hybrids consumption. It's not nothing

unkel

Regen helps a lot in start stop traffic. It is pretty useless on longer trips like a 1000km test though. To maximise range, you'd mostly do better switching regen off altogether. Problem with the ZS was the inefficiency of the drivetrain (but what do we expect from a cheap Chinese EV that is based on an ICE car, really?). Possibly not half as bad in milder climates though.

It does seem a real rushed in design but the battery cooling system seems very solid. But that user experience with those prompts and sounds would drive anybody demented. And what's the story with no battery percentage display or an outside thermometer?

unkel

To be fair to the car, it's still a lot of value for money. It's the cheapest EV money can buy. It's the Dacia Sandero of EVs

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

Regen helps a lot in start stop traffic. It is pretty useless on longer trips like a 1000km test though. To maximise range, you'd mostly do better switching regen off altogether. Problem with the ZS was the inefficiency of the drivetrain (but what do we expect from a cheap Chinese EV that is based on an ICE car, really?). Possibly not half as bad in milder climates though.

The problem Bjorn was seeing was when on cruise control and going down hills, the car was braking with zero regen. Turn off cruise control and it started regening

unkel

That's not a great setup for sure, friction brakes should never be used on an EV unless the required breaking effort exceeds the max regen the system can take. But that said, cruise control is worse again than regen. If you want to maximise range, both should be off no matter what EV you're driving.

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

That's not a great setup for sure, friction brakes should never be used on an EV unless the required breaking effort exceeds the max regen the system can take. But that said, cruise control is worse again than regen. If you want to maximise range, both should be off no matter what EV you're driving.

Driving 1000km in as short a period of time might change your tune.

unkel

Eh?

I use ACC and regen all the time, but if I got caught out with insufficient range, I would stop using either if it made the difference of getting to my destination or not.

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

Eh?
.

I'm saying Bjorn is driving 1000km in a day. He's sure as coldgate going to use cruise control. Rightly so. Exposes a stupid flaw in the MG

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

Look at what regen does for hybrids consumption. It's not nothing

The engine does most of the charging in a bybrid believe it or not, they batteries in the Toyota are only 1 Kwh and only 500 watt hrs usable, to put that into perspective, my electric bike came with a 400 watt hr battery and today comes with 500-600 Watt hrs.

I'm not sure but the NiMh battery patents probably still prevent any car manufacturer from using a larger battery, thanks to Chevron Texaco, they put severe limits on the development of electric cars back in around 2001 when GM sold the patents to an oil company shortly after scrapping their electric car program and crushing all the cars.

The engine charges the battery on the open road and tries to use the motor/engine efficiently when in town using this energy in the battery to minimise pollution and even funnier than all the above, the greatest advancements in the Toyota Hybrids since 2004 have come from the engines and not the hybrid system.

Hills makes the greatest difference when using regen but for normal driving you won't get back much but you will greatly reduce the wear on the friction brakes. I suppose all the regen does add up over the years.

So when Toyota proudly announce "self charging hybrids" they sure are that all at great expense to the driver compared to an electric car.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

That's not a great setup for sure, friction brakes should never be used on an EV unless the required breaking effort exceeds the max regen the system can take. But that said, cruise control is worse again than regen. If you want to maximise range, both should be off no matter what EV you're driving.

That depends on the driver. Cruise can maintain a steady speed on the motorway a human will always slow down and speed up again. The difference is probably not worth worrying about.

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Does Regen really return all that much energy to the battery ?
I just assumed it's s largeish car ,probably not optimised for electric drive ,

Unless going down long steep hills then no regen won't give back much to be honest but it improves efficiency so all the Kwh put back in the battery add up + it saves wear on the brakes.

It's probably better in town start stop driving but no point speeding up to use regen to slow you down thinking you're going to get loads back in the battery because you can only put a tiny fraction back int he battery. But every bit back is energy saved but on a particular trip on one charge regen is "mostly" insignificant, there are some exceptions, for instance coming down the Wicklow or sally Gap hills for example.

Pulse and glide in the Prius was a good trick to save most energy that is using coasting and a gentle push of the motor to keep momentum. Most electric cars have a neutral position on the throttle, the i3 has it, my old leaf had it but it's easier to do on the Ioniq by setting regen to 0 and using the brake pedal to regen. The Kona and Esoul, Niro etc have that same feature.

The idea here is to keep momentum going using the energy already used without having to use more until needed, it takes practice but it does work, in other words, use any form or braking, regen or friction as possible.

John Dough

Only £21995 basic model now from Omagh dealer but can one claim back vat if car is registered here as new and irish vat paid does anyone know as VRT is rated as zero from revenue.

Would have to be serviced every year in UK /Nire within the warranty period and battery warranty is a grey area.


Seems a little less attractive now with sterling at .79 and no grant aid of 5K might wait for the e-Niro mk 3 due this year.

unkel

John Dough wrote: »

Only £21995 basic model now from Omagh dealer but can one claim back vat if car is registered here as new and irish vat paid does anyone know as VRT is rated as zero from revenue.

Would have to be serviced every year in UK /Nire within the warranty period and battery warranty is a grey area.


Seems a little less attractive now with sterling at .79 and no grant aid of 5K

Won't be easy finding a UK address (so you get the GBP3,500 grant) and get the car VAT free

If you do, GBP21,995 => GBP18,329 = EUR21,940, no VRT, but 23% VAT => EUR27k plus a few hundred quid to get the car here and get it on a reg

Not such a bargain any more. Maybe you can find a demonstrator that you can get landed for around EUR22k on Irish plates?

stesaurus

I should have mine this weekend. Waiting on a transporter the last two weekends. The weather was too bad with the storms for him to travel.

A demo is the only option really without a UK address.
Exchange rate has bounced back a bit today. If you're buying at 0.79 then you're doing something wrong. I can't remember it ever being that low. 0.835 at the moment

unkel

Why do you need a transporter, do you not want to go pick it up yourself?

stesaurus

unkel wrote: »

Why do you need a transporter, do you not want to go pick it up yourself?

Too busy the last few weekends and can't take time off during the week. €450 to get it transported while I make use of my time off seems the better bet.
I've done the drive home from UK with a new car plenty of times so not much novelty to it anymore. Maybe if I was a bit more excited but it's a Chinese econobox at the end of the day

irishgrover

stesaurus wrote: »

Too busy the last few weekends and can't take time off during the week. €450 to get it transported while I make use of my time off seems the better bet.
I've done the drive home from UK with a new car plenty of times so not much novelty to it anymore. Maybe if I was a bit more excited but it's a Chinese econobox at the end of the day

in fairness €450 is a good price. B the time you take cheap flights, taxi to dealer, effort in registering for UK charge points, cost of ferry, cost of food, etc etc, is all adds up

ba_barabus

unkel wrote: »

Buyer happy (but insane)

Yep.

Insane. Owners forums for the MG ZSe are now starting to crop up with rust issues. To fit the battery pack they cut the floor and don't rust proof it. So several owners have posted pictures of the issues.

Add to that parts are on back order with no delivery dates and electrical issues are already cropping up it's starting to become a familiar tale to what others with modern MGs have experience.

stesaurus

So the transporter let me down but I managed to get a day off work so I collected it on Tuesday and came home via Holyhead. Trip went pretty well and range was fine even with the constant snow showers and freezing temps.
Happy with the car but Android auto is buggy as hell. When it works its amazing but when it doesn't the head unit freezes up and no way of restarting it while driving.
Driving itself, well its an SUV so it's not going to be the greatest drive but it has plenty of poke in sport up to the max speed so no issues there. It's comfy and roomy. Panoramic roof looks great. Heating is fiddly as it doesn't have climate control. There's no outside temp gauge for some reason and no way of bringing up the battery % only the GOM/Gauge but it's actually quite accurate compared to other EVs I've driven.
Fiddly quirks aside, which i'm sure can be sorted with software updates, there's a fair bit of tech. Lane assist, ACC and MG Pilot. So the car will attempt to prevent collisions and also keep within lane and maintain specified distances/speed while engaged. Regen level is something which can be altered also.
Already mentioned earlier in the thread but ACC uses conventional brakes which is just dumb. There's talk they are looking into it and will adjust to use regen breaking in future. No app as yet but someone has had it confirmed they are working on one for Europe. It may mean you need to pay to have the HW installed to support as rumors are it's not present in the European models.

irishgrover

stesaurus wrote: »

So the transporter let me down but I managed to get a day off work so I collected it on Tuesday and came home via Holyhead. Trip went pretty well and range was fine even with the constant snow showers and freezing temps.
Happy with the car but Android auto is buggy as hell. When it works its amazing but when it doesn't the head unit freezes up and no way of restarting it while driving.
Driving itself, well its an SUV so it's not going to be the greatest drive but it has plenty of poke in sport up to the max speed so no issues there. It's comfy and roomy. Panoramic roof looks great. Heating is fiddly as it doesn't have climate control. There's no outside temp gauge for some reason and no way of bringing up the battery % only the GOM/Gauge but it's actually quite accurate compared to other EVs I've driven.
Fiddly quirks aside, which i'm sure can be sorted with software updates, there's a fair bit of tech. Lane assist, ACC and MG Pilot. So the car will attempt to prevent collisions and also keep within lane and maintain specified distances/speed while engaged. Regen level is something which can be altered also.
Already mentioned earlier in the thread but ACC uses conventional brakes which is just dumb. There's talk they are looking into it and will adjust to use regen breaking in future. No app as yet but someone has had it confirmed they are working on one for Europe. It may mean you need to pay to have the HW installed to support as rumors are it's not present in the European models.

best of luck driving and owning. It looks like it could be a really great car (especially at that price point). You have obviously clearly done your research and are aware of many of the details of the car. I've been following this car since it was announced and almost pulled the trigger.
However for my use case it just did not add up, when compared to my ioniq 28 which I would have been replacing. However if I was coming from a Leaf or if it was my first EV this is what I would have bought. So I'm a smiggin jealous :-)

unkel

Good point, irishgrover. Ioniq (new) is no longer a budget EV, so if you need the space and / or 3 back seat passengers, Leaf40 is the only choice. Which is a lot more expensive than MG ZS BEV and also has far less motorway range. Making the MG the only budget option really.

irishgrover

unkel wrote: »

Good point, irishgrover. Ioniq (new) is no longer a budget EV, so if you need the space and / or 3 back seat passengers, Leaf40 is the only choice. Which is a lot more expensive than MG ZS BEV and also has far less motorway range. Making the MG the only budget option really.

To be fair, I'm not sure that that the MG would go much further @ motorway speed than a Leaf 40 - should be interesting...

However, if we are playing this game....

MG (the higher spec) Versus New Leaf 40 - - I'd go MG because of cost and specs

MG (the higher spec) Versus New Ioniq 38 -- depends on use case. MG is better value for money, but I suspect Ioniq would have better range at speed. However for normal usage I'd go MG

MG (the higher spec) Versus New Zeo - if you need space the MG, if not it might be a close call with the new Zeo.. not sure

Once concern I would have with MG is lack of dealer network. You'ld have to go north to get it serviced to keep warranty. Not too big a deal if you live in Dublin or north of it. However it I was a Healy Ray in Kerry I might reconsider :-)

Idbatterim

irishgrover wrote: »

To be fair, I'm not sure that that the MG would go much further @ motorway speed than a Leaf 40 - should be interesting...

However, if we are playing this game....

MG (the higher spec) Versus New Leaf 40 - - I'd go MG because of cost and specs

MG (the higher spec) Versus New Ioniq 38 -- depends on use case. MG is better value for money, but I suspect Ioniq would have better range at speed. However for normal usage I'd go MG

MG (the higher spec) Versus New Zeo - if you need space the MG, if not it might be a close call with the new Zeo.. not sure

Once concern I would have with MG is lack of dealer network. You'ld have to go north to get it serviced to keep warranty. Not too big a deal if you live in Dublin or north of it. However it I was a Healy Ray in Kerry I might reconsider :-)

can you get this serviced up north? once a year or whatever you service an ev at, wouldnt be that bad. Given that it is an ev, surely not servicing it, wouldnt matter no ? what do they service in an ev, that actually matters?

KCross

So, how much are the demo models of these selling for in the UK?

irishgrover

Idbatterim wrote: »

can you get this serviced up north? once a year or whatever you service an ev at, wouldnt be that bad. Given that it is an ev, surely not servicing it, wouldnt matter no ? what do they service in an ev, that actually matters?

yes, there are a number of dealers up North, for purchase or service
EV's should need less servicing due to less mechanical parts but there are still moving parts, suspensions, breaks, filters etc as well as software and firmware updates, recalls etc.
Not servicing would matter insofar as not getting it serviced would have an impact on warranty.

Idbatterim

irishgrover wrote: »

yes, there are a number of dealers up North, for purchase or service
EV's should need less servicing due to less mechanical parts but there are still moving parts, suspensions, breaks, filters etc as well as software and firmware updates, recalls etc.
Not servicing would matter insofar as not getting it serviced would have an impact on warranty.

yeah, but there is no way it is anywhere near as critical as oil change, air filters, sparks etc on an ICE. Would it matter for example? If you dont get it serviced every year or whatever it is, would it effect the warranty?

KCross

Idbatterim wrote: »

If you dont get it serviced every year or whatever it is, would it effect the warranty?

It would.

You could get it "serviced" locally and say that you adhered to manufacturers guidelines etc but it might be a little harder to prove or get goodwill from MG if something did actually go wrong as they could question the qualifications of your local indie to be able to service the car.

Ultimately it would come down to the nature of the fault...
e.g. if it was something like a broken door handle which isnt a service item then you'd probably be fine.

Idbatterim

yeah it just seems to me, that they arent actually doing anything that is important to the car, with an electric "service" this isnt like leaving oil unchanged for two or three years etc...

irishgrover

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah it just seems to me, that they arent actually doing anything that is important to the car, with an electric "service" this isnt like leaving oil unchanged for two or three years etc...

I'll put it to you like this. If my car was out of warranty I would not be getting it serviced as frequently as I am

stesaurus

Yearly service to maintain warranty. I've heard a rumour of a local Wexford garage trying to get an MG dealership. I've also asked MG directly and they hinted something might be in the works also.
It will be very interesting after Brexit if there are still no dealerships down South though.
I could see Ice MGs selling quite well here when you see how many Dacias there are out there.

Boot is blooming huge compared to other EVs. It's much quicker than I anticipated for such a brick. 0-60 is definitely around the 7 second mark in sport.

It's absolutely fine as a budget EV and I'm not regretting it yet. Quite pleased actually

stesaurus

KCross wrote: »

So, how much are the demo models of these selling for in the UK?

Ask again in a few weeks. Once they roll over to the 20 plate they'll be moving on the current 69s they have in stock.
Waiting list seems to have disappeared also so most dealers have stock.
I'd say you should be able to get a demo Exclusive for £19,000 ex VAT, the Excite for maybe £16,000 and then add Irish VAT.
FX is back around 0.86 also so that's looking up too.

ba_barabus

stesaurus wrote: »

Yearly service to maintain warranty. I've heard a rumour of a local Wexford garage trying to get an MG dealership. I've also asked MG directly and they hinted something might be in the works also.
It will be very interesting after Brexit if there are still no dealerships down South though.
I could see Ice MGs selling quite well here when you see how many Dacias there are out there.

Boot is blooming huge compared to other EVs. It's much quicker than I anticipated for such a brick. 0-60 is definitely around the 7 second mark in sport.

It's absolutely fine as a budget EV and I'm not regretting it yet. Quite pleased actually

They've been hinting at it since 2011 when I looked at importing an MG6 so I wouldn't put much faith in what they say. In relation to the petrol models they won't sell here as the emissions are high on all models. Dacia can get into the low tax bands with theirs so the comparison isn't fair.

Their after sales, no matter how long the warranty is, is very much dependant on the dealership as owners forums will tell you. They have on occasion not honoured it but this seems to be dependant on the dealership.

AMKC

stesaurus wrote: »

Yearly service to maintain warranty. I've heard a rumour of a local Wexford garage trying to get an MG dealership. I've also asked MG directly and they hinted something might be in the works also.
It will be very interesting after Brexit if there are still no dealerships down South though.
I could see Ice MGs selling quite well here when you see how many Dacias there are out there.

Boot is blooming huge compared to other EVs. It's much quicker than I anticipated for such a brick. 0-60 is definitely around the 7 second mark in sport.

It's absolutely fine as a budget EV and I'm not regretting it yet. Quite pleased actually

What colour did you get it in? How about a picture of it?

unkel

1000km challenge in winter was pretty bad, but in summer (Thailand) it was even worse, which is quite surprising. I guess this is not the right motor for you if you regularly do long distance travelling, unless you have lots of time on your hands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP4dlxoEudA

stesaurus

They are limiting the pack quite substantially in terms of charging. They have the potential to use water cooling or heating to help. The hardware is there but they haven't allowed it's use to help with charging speeds.
I've seen videos of charging speeds up to 80kW so the potential is there in the BMS to allow for it. I'd say our moderate summer climate will show the best results.

unkel

Ireland is ideal for EVs. Pretty good for solar PV too

And we have the best wind in the world for electricity generation. We should really have been 100% renewable electricity years ago (for very little cost), but that's a discussion for another thread / forum...

BuzzFish

Considering picking up an MG ZS Exclusive from the UK.

Anyone care to share an update on how you're getting on with yours:

1. What kind of range are you seeing?
   
2. I see some software updates have been released allowing for delayed charging and turns off some of the annoying noises the car makes warning the driver of various things. How have folks gotten these updates? Are the dealers in NI accommodating?
   
3. How do folks plan to service (going north or are there options in the republic?

Any other advise for me on picking one up?

stesaurus

There's a UK MG EV owners group on FB which is pretty handy to see the latest goings on. I'd say most owners are really happy with theirs and I am too. I've done a lot less mileage than my original plans due to COVID so the savings I had anticipated haven't materialized but I still don't have any regrets.
It's a real shame there's still no dealers down south to offer to the Irish market because as far as I'm concerned its the best pound for pound(€ for €) EV on the market. Interior and boot size, range, extras and obviously price being the major factors.
The software update is annoying. Has to be done by the dealer and takes a number of hours. MG also insisted that its not covered under warranty for the UK market but yes for Europe. So that means most dealers are forced to charge for it. As such I'm leaving it for the moment until closer the end of the year when I'll service it anyway and hopefully be thrown in as part of that. The biggest thing on the SW update is the removal of the various annoying bongs. TBH they're easily ignored unless you have someone new in the car and they start worrying what all these warnings are. Other than that there's more info related to battery % available and you can actually see the temperature. Quite a few owners had bought ridiculous temp gauges to glue onto their dash prior to this.
I'd say there's potentially a few more important SW updates due that will better control the charge curve and allow for faster charging and also changing the ACC to use regen over friction brakes. Now those updates would have me traveling sooner.

stesaurus

I probably should mention range. Now I'm certainly not someone who has a light foot so I'm very much an outlier when it comes to efficiency. I've seen as low as 150km range in winter when I've had it close to max in the rain. My usual efficiency is somewhere in the 22kWh/100km, more often though closer to 26kWh/100km when really hammering it.
Bare in mind my i3 efficiency was very seldom less than 20kWh/100km so I'm not exactly a good measure. You'd easily get 200km out of it at ~120km/h.

slave1

MG ZS EV (Pre Reg - 20) Exclusive Trim - £21,995 at Richmond MG
Nice for you if in the UK, £6k off

https://www.richmondmotorgroup.com/mg-zs-ev-offer.aspx

stesaurus

I finally got the my ZS VRT'd last week. Combination of being lazy and then COVID meant it took quite a while.
Anyway OMSP valued it at 41K and then 6 months depreciation meant I needed to pay €450 in VRT.
I've obviously appealed it but with zero on sale in Ireland they'll likely just stick to their unrealistic OMSP.
Just something to consider if importing.

Andy From Sligo

stesaurus wrote: »

I finally got the my ZS VRT'd last week. Combination of being lazy and then COVID meant it took quite a while.
Anyway OMSP valued it at 41K and then 6 months depreciation meant I needed to pay €450 in VRT.
I've obviously appealed it but with zero on sale in Ireland they'll likely just stick to their unrealistic OMSP.
Just something to consider if importing.

fancy them valuing it at 41k when you wouldnt have paid anything near 41k for it ! (you didnt did ye?) - thats pretty unfair TBH

BuzzFish

Put a deposit on one Friday but it was registered on the 12th march so it'll be a few weeks before I collect to make 100% sure I avoid the VAT. Seems to be a little debate on whether they go by date of vrt or sale.

Got a red exclusive and can't wait to have it home. Coming from MG dealers who will get the comfort and any other updates applied in advance.

Anything else to be aware of??

stesaurus

BuzzFish wrote: »

Put a deposit on one Friday but it was registered on the 12th march so it'll be a few weeks before I collect to make 100% sure I avoid the VAT. Seems to be a little debate on whether they go by date of vrt or sale.

Got a red exclusive and can't wait to have it home. Coming from MG dealers who will get the comfort and any other updates applied in advance.

Anything else to be aware of??

Nothing major I can think of other than the updates. I'd maybe suggest getting the back windows tinted to cut out a little of the sun as there's a lot of glass. Get a decent cable for your phone to handle android auto also. It can be picky about cheap cables.
I've a black exclusive and it can get very warm just parked up for a few mins.
Someone posted up in the FB group a discount for click in blinds so I've just ordered a full set.

KCross

BuzzFish wrote: »

Put a deposit on one Friday but it was registered on the 12th march so it'll be a few weeks before I collect to make 100% sure I avoid the VAT. Seems to be a little debate on whether they go by date of vrt or sale.

The 6 month requirement to avoid VAT will be based on the date on the invoice that you produce when at the VRT appointment.

The 6000km requirement is based on what is on the car at that appointment so you can clock up extra miles to avoid that but the invoice can’t be easily changed so make sure that says 13 Sep or later.

BuzzFish

Thanks for the tips. The windows are tinted already and it comes with mats also.

It'll be the week of the 13th I'm planning to travel alright ��

Doc el brown

BuzzFish wrote: »

Put a deposit on one Friday but it was registered on the 12th march so it'll be a few weeks before I collect to make 100% sure I avoid the VAT. Seems to be a little debate on whether they go by date of vrt or sale.

Got a red exclusive and can't wait to have it home. Coming from MG dealers who will get the comfort and any other updates applied in advance.

Anything else to be aware of??

I bought one from MG in telford this week, a red exclusive. Registered in january 2020, 5000 miles on the clock. I will avoid the duty.

In terms of anything else to be aware of:
There was a recall on them for the driver side wiring loom- thats getting done tomorrow.
Obviously the software- that is done.
There is also a bms software update that they said was done too.

They are shipping it to pembroke for me on sat week, and it is being brought over by irish ferries as unaccompanied freight. Be aware if you are getting it shipped there is a 24 hour quarantine period at the port in Pembrook and 72 hours in hollyhead due to covid.

Hope that helps.

stesaurus

Doc el brown wrote: »

I bought one from MG in telford this week, a red exclusive. Registered in january 2020, 5000 miles on the clock. I will avoid the duty.

In terms of anything else to be aware of:
There was a recall on them for the driver side wiring loom- thats getting done tomorrow.
Obviously the software- that is done.
There is also a bms software update that they said was done too.

They are shipping it to pembroke for me on sat week, and it is being brought over by irish ferries as unaccompanied freight. Be aware if you are getting it shipped there is a 24 hour quarantine period at the port in Pembrook and 72 hours in hollyhead due to covid.

Hope that helps.

I got hit with VRT and submitted an appeal. Revenue system is still saying the same amount of VRT due so they haven't yet updated the OMSP. So be prepared to pay 400+ on the day.

Good luck with the car, hopefully see you around at some point, red will stand out!

Doc el brown

stesaurus wrote: »

I got hit with VRT and submitted an appeal. Revenue system is still saying the same amount of VRT due so they haven't yet updated the OMSP. So be prepared to pay 400+ on the day.

Good luck with the car, hopefully see you around at some point, red will stand out!

I have taken a screen grab of the vrt calculation I did a few weeks ago and it is 439€. Are you saying it should be cheaper as the OMSP is wrong? Ill appeal it then too.

Thanks, and best of luck to you too. It will certainly stand out. Where are you based?