How safe are houses with attic conversions?

Corca Baiscinn

kceire wrote: »

That's where your families evacuation plan comes into play.
Make sure there's no key on the final exit.
Make sure there's smoke detection in every room (even battery operated units)
Make sure all bedroom doors and living room doors that open onto the stair core and hall are closed at night when going to bed.

Then the usual, no smoking, ashtrays left ignited. Cookers, ovens etc

Sorry if I'm being dumb but can you explain that first one, "no key on the final exit".?So, say final exit is via front door, it needs key to open, we dont keep it in door as then someone else with a key trying to come in from outside can't. Plus you're told not to leave a key near door accessible to burglars. So I can see that's it's not a good idea to be locked in if its the kitchen that's on fire, key is hanging in kitchen, front door is locked and obviously back door is unusable. So is the alternative to keep a spare front door key in bedside locker? That's still a key to exit though.

L1011

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Sorry if I'm being dumb but can you explain that first one, "no key on the final exit".?So, say final exit is via front door, it needs key to open, we dont keep it in door as then someone else with a key trying to come in from outside can't. Plus you're told not to leave a key near door accessible to burglars. So I can see that's it's not a good idea to be locked in if its the kitchen that's on fire, key is hanging in kitchen, front door is locked and obviously back door is unusable. So is the alternative to keep a spare front door key in bedside locker? That's still a key to exit though.

Exit doors should have thumb turns or other non-key based systems to exit. Modern doors don't have letterboxes by default (yes, you can still get them) so the old key-fished-out thing is gone.

Breaking the triple glazing on my front door to get at the thumb turn from outside would be difficult, messy and very noisy albeit obviously still possible.

Gumbo

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Sorry if I'm being dumb but can you explain that first one, "no key on the final exit".?So, say final exit is via front door, it needs key to open, we dont keep it in door as then someone else with a key trying to come in from outside can't. Plus you're told not to leave a key near door accessible to burglars. So I can see that's it's not a good idea to be locked in if its the kitchen that's on fire, key is hanging in kitchen, front door is locked and obviously back door is unusable. So is the alternative to keep a spare front door key in bedside locker? That's still a key to exit though.

This is exactly the reason you shouldn’t have a key internally on a final exit door. Too many variables to go wrong and trying to sort that out while escaping from smoke or fire with tour family, kids, pets etc will be fatal.

Thumb turn internally is the only simple fastening that I certify.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-house-evacuated-after-electric-scooter-went-on-fire-1.4126683%3fmode=amp

There’s a video of the above event I seen and it’s scary how quick the room fills with smoke and I don’t care what keyboard warrior comes on and says I wouldn’t get scared, disorientated while fumbling for keys in the middle of the night carrying screaming kids etc

awec

L1011 wrote: »

Exit doors should have thumb turns or other non-key based systems to exit. Modern doors don't have letterboxes by default (yes, you can still get them) so the old key-fished-out thing is gone.

Breaking the triple glazing on my front door to get at the thumb turn from outside would be difficult, messy and very noisy albeit obviously still possible.

If a burglar is willing to smash a window to get into your property then it won't matter what sort of lock is on your front door.

L1011

awec wrote: »

If a burglar is willing to smash a window to get into your property then it won't matter what sort of lock is on your front door.

True - the absolutely giant double glazed pane on the room beside the door will be easier to break and easier to get through if they wanted.

Either will set the alarm off regardless


For very old doors with panelled glass you could sometimes break a small pane to either fish keys or turn a thumbturn but new doors don't do that.

kceire

It also means even if a burgled gains access through small opening they can easily open the door to exit with things they steal rather than be forced back out the small opening if they can’t open doors without a key.

kceire wrote: »

I guess my assumption just means the 3 cowboys are the same person. Builder, owner and profession are cow boys. Let’s hope he’s not too busy in his professional line of work if that’s the attitude he takes to regulations.
.

What someone does in their own home and what they do when working aren’t the same thing. Any house you oversee as soon as you are gone they could change the locks to ones they want for all you know.

Just because you are so against key locks on doors on exit points and bedrooms doesn’t mean others share your views and people are entitled to do as they want in their own home. As I said I’ve yet to live in a house that didn’t require a key to open the door (be it at home, places I rent or my wife’s house) and I’ve always been happy with this setup.

On my own self build I’d put in key locks if I wasn’t planning to fit smart locks (on the normal doors, sliding patio door obviously won’t have a smart lock). Thumb locks on bedrooms in a family home I have no problem with, but key locks are a must in a rented house. I always locked my door when leaving the house and when in my room when renting and this has been highlighted again recently with a family member currently arranging to get the key for their bedroom door as their room is being entered by housemates (or their guests) when they are in the room and when they are out.

Corca Baiscinn

kceire wrote: »

This is exactly the reason you shouldn’t have a key internally on a final exit door. Too many variables to go wrong and trying to sort that out while escaping from smoke or fire with tour family, kids, pets etc will be fatal.

Thumb turn internally is the only simple fastening that I certify.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-house-evacuated-after-electric-scooter-went-on-fire-1.4126683%3fmode=amp

thanks, I dont doubt you at all, its just that I didn't think of the issue until i saw the thread and your recommendation, because to me door locks always came with keys. Our front door is in since 2004, replacement for an earlier one so we still think of it as "new"! Friend's much newer one also uses key to lock from inside. So do you have to get a new door or can you replace the lock and does a "thumb turn" lock still use a key from outside?

L1011

Yes, a thumb turn uses a key from the outside.

Corca Baiscinn

L1011 wrote: »

Yes, a thumb turn uses a key from the outside.

Thanks and can you just replace existing lock with a thumb turn one?

L1011

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Thanks and can you just replace existing lock with a thumb turn one?

In most cases yes; and vice versa. Specialist/weird cases exist obviously.

The majority of external doors use "Eurocylinder" locks which are very easily available and usually facile to replace.

Yellow_Fern

kceire wrote: »

Your incorrect here. I over saw the construction of 5 new Creche’s in Dublin this year. Not one of these had key Locks internally on escape routes.

No I am not. Your experience doesnt mean they met the regulation though does it? Creches have been complaining about this regulation in the press lately. If there is a loop hole that allows what you saw that is great but that the fact that some old creches feel they have to (as highlighted in the press) shows by awful the regulation regime is.

Gumbo

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

No I am not. Your experience doesnt mean they met the regulation though does it? Creches have been complaining about this regulation in the press lately. If there is a loop hole that allows what you saw that is great but that the fact that some old creches feel they have to (as highlighted in the press) shows by awful the regulation regime is.

Can you link to one of these articles as it’s very unclear now what you are talking about.

Creche’s are currently complaining about having to apply for Fire Certs to continue getting Tulsa support and recognition. As
Part of their fire cert application some Creche’s may have to remove key locks and put in simple fasteners so this is where you might be getting confused.


Post a link to these media complaints you mention and see if I can understand what you are saying.