DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Irishder

Another question! it looks like I will be doing a lot of travelling in the coming months and i really dont want it to effect my training. In June alone i have the following:

- Family holiday in Spain, 11 days
- business trip Amsterdam, 4 days
- business trip Berlin, 3 days
- Then in July i will prob have to go to Berlin again with a trip to South Korea on the cards.

Any tips on training when travelling. Flying plays havoc with my stomach at the best of time and energy levels will prob be low.

I presume the advice is eat as well as possible and get out and run, just like home really?

Thanks

Huzzah!

Irishder wrote: »

Another question! it looks like I will be doing a lot of travelling in the coming months and i really dont want it to effect my training. In June alone i have the following:

- Family holiday in Spain, 11 days
- business trip Amsterdam, 4 days
- business trip Berlin, 3 days
- Then in July i will prob have to go to Berlin again with a trip to South Korea on the cards.

Any tips on training when travelling. Flying plays havoc with my stomach at the best of time and energy levels will prob be low.

I presume the advice is eat as well as possible and get out and run, just like home really?

Thanks

I quite enjoy running when away; it's a great way to see a place. I also suffer from a sensitive tummy, so I empathise.

The best thing you can do is plan your runs. Google running routes near where you're staying and even ask here, people might be able to help. If the weather is warm, try and get your runs done before it gets too hot. It might also be worth trying to plan to get long runs done while you're home. Decide the times/days you're going to run and stick to it.

South Korea will have the added complication of jet lag, so be kind to yourself on those runs and keep them super easy.

rizzee

Just printed off a few copies to stick on the walls of the Marathon Plan (That's attached on page 1) commencing 24/06/2019. Can't wait! Also converted the Miles to KMS for myself. My only issue is i'm away for a week end of July but I'll work around it and get extra steps in on holidays.

Signed up for my local Dunshaughlin 10KM on the 22/06 too! New shoes in the next week or two that will carry me through for the marathon training. Looking forward to the next few weeks and months (Hopefully injury free ! )

ReeReeG

Irishder wrote: »

Another question! it looks like I will be doing a lot of travelling in the coming months and i really dont want it to effect my training. In June alone i have the following:

- Family holiday in Spain, 11 days
- business trip Amsterdam, 4 days
- business trip Berlin, 3 days
- Then in July i will prob have to go to Berlin again with a trip to South Korea on the cards.

Any tips on training when travelling. Flying plays havoc with my stomach at the best of time and energy levels will prob be low.

I presume the advice is eat as well as possible and get out and run, just like home really?

Thanks

When I'm travelling with work, I absolutely have to plan when I will be doing my runs - generally on a treadmill early as I find your evenings tend to be taken with events or being expected to dine with colleagues etc. Once you know your daily schedule, I'd include the running time and I find its easier to get the run done as its part of the schedule now too.


Flying also messes with my tummy (yay) but I've actually found a run helps that so win-win in that respect, for me at least. Drink plenty of water on the flights as well though, that should help a little.

ReeReeG

Paperstraw wrote: »

Hi all, headed about this thread from my sister who did dcm last year so went looking for it for myself and my first dcm this year. Looking forward to getting loads of tips!

Hey Paperstraw, great to have you on here Have a look at the questions in the first post and join in the fun!

Lexidoh

Hi All,

Delighted to stubble across this... Signed up for DCM, first time... I'll answer the questions to shed a bit more light...

•Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? No problem if you do)... 10KM the furthest... 60mins
•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level: Currently running 2/3 days and doing strength and conditioning 3/4 days
•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? Under 5
•How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? 5/6 realistically
•What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? Getting injured, not being able for it... :-/
•Why are you running this marathon? Bucket list stuff... always in awe of people every year and I want my turn!!

Thanks and looking forward to reading and running
Lexi

Rega

Irishder wrote: »

Another question! it looks like I will be doing a lot of travelling in the coming months and i really dont want it to effect my training. In June alone i have the following:

- Family holiday in Spain, 11 days
- business trip Amsterdam, 4 days
- business trip Berlin, 3 days
- Then in July i will prob have to go to Berlin again with a trip to South Korea on the cards.

Any tips on training when travelling. Flying plays havoc with my stomach at the best of time and energy levels will prob be low.

I presume the advice is eat as well as possible and get out and run, just like home really?

Thanks

Like you, Irishder, I'm away on a family holiday for two weeks (weeks 3 and 4 of the training plans.) I'm going to begin the plan 2 weeks earlier and hope to get out for a few 3 or 4 mile runs in those two weeks while the kids are in the kids club.

Huzzah!

Lexidoh wrote: »

Hi All,

Delighted to stubble across this... Signed up for DCM, first time... I'll answer the questions to shed a bit more light...

•Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? No problem if you do)... 10KM the furthest... 60mins
•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level: Currently running 2/3 days and doing strength and conditioning 3/4 days
•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? Under 5
•How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? 5/6 realistically
•What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? Getting injured, not being able for it... :-/
•Why are you running this marathon? Bucket list stuff... always in awe of people every year and I want my turn!!

Thanks and looking forward to reading and running
Lexi

Welcome, Lexi. It might be worth considering reducing some of your strength and conditioning days and increasing your running days. Have a look at the Hal Higdon plan in the opening post and see what you think.

Bananaleaf

Hi all

I have a question - I am trying to personalise the training plan and would like to work out my planned marathon pace.

Given my PBs, what would be a realistic finish time for me?

5k - 27:44 (Jan)
10k - 57:20 (Feb)
1/2 - 2:10:17 (March)

I would love 4:30 but I think 4:40 is probably more realistic. Am I way out? I am working in kms too (sorry, I have such a mental block when it comes to miles) and I think I have correctly worked out that if I was to aim for 4:30, my PMP would be 6:20min/kms. I feel that running my other runs very slow will make this fairly manageable. Am I wrong?

May I also ask, 'easy' and 'LSR' - is it okay for them to be run at the same pace? If my PMP is 6.20min/kms, is it okay that all my other ones (easy and LSR) are run at an average of about 9min kms?

Thank you

Treviso

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Hi all

I have a question - I am trying to personalise the training plan and would like to work out my planned marathon pace.

Given my PBs, what would be a realistic finish time for me?

5k - 27:44 (Jan)
10k - 57:20 (Feb)
1/2 - 2:10:17 (March)

I would love 4:30 but I think 4:40 is probably more realistic. Am I way out? I am working in kms too (sorry, I have such a mental block when it comes to miles) and I think I have correctly worked out that if I was to aim for 4:30, my PMP would be 6:20min/kms. I feel that running my other runs very slow will make this fairly manageable. Am I wrong?

May I also ask, 'easy' and 'LSR' - is it okay for them to be run at the same pace? If my PMP is 6.20min/kms, is it okay that all my other ones (easy and LSR) are run at an average of about 9min kms?

Thank you

Have a look at some pacing calculators for running paces (they are in miles)

http://www.runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php
https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/

I would go off your latest race time for pacing your runs. If your training goes well then 4hr30 is certainly achievable.

Convert miles to km using the chart here - https://www.depicus.com/swim-bike-run/pace-conversion-chart

Mr. Guappa

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Hi all

I have a question - I am trying to personalise the training plan and would like to work out my planned marathon pace.

Given my PBs, what would be a realistic finish time for me?

5k - 27:44 (Jan)
10k - 57:20 (Feb)
1/2 - 2:10:17 (March)

I would love 4:30 but I think 4:40 is probably more realistic. Am I way out? I am working in kms too (sorry, I have such a mental block when it comes to miles) and I think I have correctly worked out that if I was to aim for 4:30, my PMP would be 6:20min/kms. I feel that running my other runs very slow will make this fairly manageable. Am I wrong?

May I also ask, 'easy' and 'LSR' - is it okay for them to be run at the same pace? If my PMP is 6.20min/kms, is it okay that all my other ones (easy and LSR) are run at an average of about 9min kms?

Thank you

Don't worry too much about target times at this stage, but 4:30 - 4:40 looks to be in about the right ballpark for you based on that HM time. The general rule of thumb is:
Marathon Time = HM time x 2, plus 20 mins
Massive health warning attached to those predictions though, as everyone's endurance will be different and the marathon is such a jump, even from the half, that it shouldn't be taken as gospel.

Additionally we would advise to keep the easy and long runs at least 60-90 seconds per mile (40-60s per km) slower than PMP. That would be at the upper end of what the McMillan calculator gives based on your HM time.

Limerick91

I cannot access the Strava DCM Novices group, can one of the admins please accept me request.
Cheers

Huzzah!

Limerick91 wrote: »

I cannot access the Strava DCM Novices group, can one of the admins please accept me request.
Cheers

Hi, if you PM me (or Mr Guappa/ReeReeG) with your name, I can accept the request.

Huzzah!

Good luck to all racing this weekend. I know Treviso has Cork half and I'm sure some of you will participate in the mini marathon. Be sure and report back with how you got on.

Bananaleaf

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Don't worry too much about target times at this stage, but 4:30 - 4:40 looks to be in about the right ballpark for you based on that HM time. The general rule of thumb is:
Marathon Time = HM time x 2, plus 20 mins
Massive health warning attached to those predictions though, as everyone's endurance will be different and the marathon is such a jump, even from the half, that it shouldn't be taken as gospel.

Additionally we would advise to keep the easy and long runs at least 60-90 seconds per mile (40-60s per km) slower than PMP. That would be at the upper end of what the McMillan calculator gives based on your HM time.

Thank you Treviso and Mr Guappa.

So is it okay if 'easy' and LSR are the same pace? And is 180mins slower okay?

Mr. Guappa

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Thank you Treviso and Mr Guappa.

So is it okay if 'easy' and LSR are the same pace? And is 180mins slower okay?

Yeah, easy and LSR pace are about the same - McMillan gives a slightly larger range for the long runs, so they can be a touch slower than easy if required. Also remember not to be a slave to a prescribed pace range, if easy doesn't feel easy on a particular day, wind the pace back.

Are you going to be training by paces, or will you continue to train by HR?

I had noticed that your easy runs were very, very easy alright - I guess there is no such thing as too slow as long as your form is not being impacted.

Bananaleaf

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Yeah, easy and LSR pace are about the same - McMillan gives a slightly larger range for the long runs, so they can be a touch slower than easy if required. Also remember not to be a slave to a prescribed pace range, if easy doesn't feel easy on a particular day, wind the pace back.

Are you going to be training by paces, or will you continue to train by HR?

I had noticed that your easy runs were very, very easy alright - I guess there is no such thing as too slow as long as your form is not being impacted.

Yes, good point. If easy doesn't feel easy, then it's no longer easy, regardless of pace.

I will do the PMP work by pace. For the remainder I will try to stick to HR for as long as is possible. My hope that by the time I start hitting the longer runs, my average pace at HR will have caught up to about 120secs slower than PMP.

My most recent LSR training by HR was 2hrs 30mins. But in that time I covered just 16.5km.

At that pace, if I haven't managed to reduce the pace, when I get to week 14, the LSR will take me 4hrs 52mins to complete. Maybe that's ok though?

Thanks for all the answers

skyblue46

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Yes, good point. If easy doesn't feel easy, then it's no longer easy, regardless of pace.

I will do the PMP work by pace. For the remainder I will try to stick to HR for as long as is possible. My hope that by the time I start hitting the longer runs, my average pace at HR will have caught up to about 120secs slower than PMP.

My most recent LSR training by HR was 2hrs 30mins. But in that time I covered just 16.5km.

At that pace, if I haven't managed to reduce the pace, when I get to week 14, the LSR will take me 4hrs 52mins to complete. Maybe that's ok though?

Thanks for all the answers

I'm going to have to take a look back at your recent running because the recent posts have me perplexed! One thing I can say with certainty....do not do 4:52 long runs. EVER

Bananaleaf

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm going to have to take a look back at your recent running because the recent posts have me perplexed! One thing I can say with certainty....do not do 4:52 long runs. EVER

Okay, thanks. Em, maybe I've gotten something wrong in my calculations and that's what is confusing you. But, if it clears anything up for you I haven't done a run longer than 16km while I have been HR training. Purely because of how long they are taking me. My pace was about 10min kms at first and I am somewhere around 9minkms now.

The hope would be that I would have this reduced to 8.30min kms by the time the 32km LSRs begin, but that would still mean a 4hr30min LSR by week 14

skyblue46

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Okay, thanks. Em, maybe I've gotten something wrong in my calculations and that's what is confusing you. But, if it clears anything up for you I haven't done a run longer than 16km while I have been HR training. Purely because of how long they are taking me. My pace was about 10min kms at first and I am somewhere around 9minkms now.

The hope would be that I would have this reduced to 8.30min kms by the time the 32km LSRs begin, but that would still mean a 4hr30min LSR by week 14

No, I need to have a look. Something about the paces you have raced and HR doesn't compute. Personally I'd cap a long run at 3 hours irrespective of distance covered.

Bananaleaf

skyblue46 wrote: »

No, I need to have a look. Something about the paces you have raced and HR doesn't compute. Personally I'd cap a long run at 3 hours irrespective of distance covered.

I have been running all my training runs at HR (under 150) but not for the races I got those times in. Those were me going as hard as I could. I will PM you a link to my Strava so you can see.

ReeReeG

Bananaleaf wrote:

I have been running all my training runs at HR (under 150) but not for the races I got those times in. Those were me going as hard as I could. I will PM you a link to my Strava so you can see.

What are you using for HR monitoring? A strap or just the wristwatch? Be interesting to know how accurate it might be...
The gains from doing a long run beyond 3.5 hours are very small, if any. You'd be running the risk of injury and tiring yourself far too much for subsequent training runs.

Bananaleaf

ReeReeG wrote: »

What are you using for HR monitoring? A strap or just the wristwatch? Be interesting to know how accurate it might be...
The gains from doing a long run beyond 3.5 hours are very small, if any. You'd be running the risk of injury and tiring yourself far too much for subsequent training runs.

I am just using my watch with monitor. I did have a strap but I gave it away thinking that I would never need it since the watch has one, but I have since heard that the straps are more accurate.

Would you suggest that once it gets to the time for the plan that I aim to make the LSRs and easy runs roughly 120sec slower only? Not to be too rigid about it as has already been mentioned of course, but just wondering.

Is there a risk that if I run at that slow a pace for too long into the plan that I will struggle to up the pace to PMP?

ReeReeG

Bananaleaf wrote:

Would you suggest that once it gets to the time for the plan that I aim to make the LSRs and easy runs roughly 120sec slower only? Not to be too rigid about it as has already been mentioned of course, but just wondering.

As Mr Guappa said above, if that easy or LSR pace doesn't actually feel easy, then don't worry about being 3 mins slower than PMP or more. You could always cap the runs at 3.5 hours or whatever. But look, there is a lot of training to be done between now and those later LSRs. You'll have a better idea of where you're at coming up to those weeks. Have you noticed improvements in pace with HR training already?

Bananaleaf wrote:

Is there a risk that if I run at that slow a pace for too long into the plan that I will struggle to up the pace to PMP?

I wouldn't think so..if your PMP is in keeping with predictions or expectations from races in the lead up of course. But will also request input from more experienced runners here

Bananaleaf

ReeReeG wrote: »

As Mr Guappa said above, if that easy or LSR pace doesn't actually feel easy, then don't worry about being 3 mins slower than PMP or more. You could always cap the runs at 3.5 hours or whatever. But look, there is a lot of training to be done between now and those later LSRs. You'll have a better idea of where you're at coming up to those weeks. Have you noticed improvements in pace with HR training already?



I wouldn't think so..if your PMP is in keeping with predictions or expectations from races in the lead up of course. But will also request input from more experienced runners here

That's a good point about the slow runs again, yes. Thank you. And you're right, there is a lot of time to go before we get to week 14 (thank god!)

I have noticed an improvement with HR training. Looking at my manual diary, I committed to it properly from 25th February onwards and then I was logging most of my kms at 10:30min per km pace. Now I would say that I am at about 9min/km on average, with the very odd 5k being done under 9min/km average pace.

So sorry for all of the questions and for hogging the thread a bit. I'm acutely aware that if I am going to succeed on 27th October, it will be as a result of what I do from now onwards. This will be hard enough for me to do as I'm not a great runner. I just want to give myself the best possible opportunity.

ReeReeG

Bananaleaf wrote:

So sorry for all of the questions and for hogging the thread a bit. I'm acutely aware that if I am going to succeed on 27th October, it will be as a result of what I do from now onwards. This will be hard enough for me to do as I'm not a great runner. I just want to give myself the best possible opportunity.

Don't apologise! This is exactly what this thread was set up for; most posting on here have been in your shoes facing their marathon and had all types of questions too!
And I'm going to ignore what you said about not being a great runner; to me a great runner is someone who has passion for the sport and is willing to put in the hard work. You tick those boxes.

skyblue46

Bananaleaf wrote: »

So sorry for all of the questions and for hogging the thread a bit. I'm acutely aware that if I am going to succeed on 27th October, it will be as a result of what I do from now onwards. This will be hard enough for me to do as I'm not a great runner. I just want to give myself the best possible opportunity.

Firstly I'll echo RRG's sentiments regarding "hogging" the thread. Any question is a good question and the deeper it's delved into the better. That's what this thread should be, a big Q&A thread!

As for your 4:30 dream...why not! My own opinion is that based on what you have been doing and your commitment to carry on training in the right way that it is a very realistic goal.

Anyway, back to the original question about paces. I'll preface what I am about to say by pointing out that I have no idea about the HR training zones you are using and whether they are calculated from accurate resting and max heart rates. I can't make a guess at the accuracy of the watch HR monitor either. Feel free to fill me in.

I'm just looking at this from a race pace point of view for that reason. I have to say there is lots of really good stuff in there and plenty to be positive about. Your race paces of 5:32, 5:43 and 6:10 per Km are bang in line with the best anyone could hope for and indicate a good level of endurance. There is no fall off the edge of a cliff as race distances increased. They also show a consistency that allows for reliable training pace planning.

Bearing that in mind I would have no hesitation in saying that you could do your very easy runs in the 8:10-8:45 range for now. You are more than capable of it. It will feel different after running a bit slower but I think you would find it easy very quickly.

Your esteemed mentors know my avowed views on the benefits of running slowly hahaha which makes this a first...they probably never thought they'd hear me give advice to someone to feel free to train faster!!!

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

Your esteemed mentors know my avowed views on the benefits of running slowly hahaha which makes this a first...they probably never thought they'd hear me give advice to someone to feel free to train faster!!!

"Dear diary,


today, something quite incredible happened........."

Lombardo123

Glad to get another week of training in this week and sticking to the planned mileage. Weekend away last week everything was sandwiched at the start of last week and the end of this week but got it done.

Had an interesting feeling this morning on LSR. Felt very sluggish coming up to halfway and a little past halfway I got a great surge of energy and ended up feeling great through for the whole second half . Never had that feeling before, ever. I always started feeling great and slowly declined the further I ran. What was it?!

Either way another solid week of base building and committing to the planned days. Rearing to go for the start of the plan

Will probably need a nap later though

Bananaleaf

skyblue46 wrote: »

Firstly I'll echo RRG's sentiments regarding "hogging" the thread. Any question is a good question and the deeper it's delved into the better. That's what this thread should be, a big Q&A thread!

As for your 4:30 dream...why not! My own opinion is that based on what you have been doing and your commitment to carry on training in the right way that it is a very realistic goal.

Anyway, back to the original question about paces. I'll preface what I am about to say by pointing out that I have no idea about the HR training zones you are using and whether they are calculated from accurate resting and max heart rates. I can't make a guess at the accuracy of the watch HR monitor either. Feel free to fill me in.

I'm just looking at this from a race pace point of view for that reason. I have to say there is lots of really good stuff in there and plenty to be positive about. Your race paces of 5:32, 5:43 and 6:10 per Km are bang in line with the best anyone could hope for and indicate a good level of endurance. There is no fall off the edge of a cliff as race distances increased. They also show a consistency that allows for reliable training pace planning.

Bearing that in mind I would have no hesitation in saying that you could do your very easy runs in the 8:10-8:45 range for now. You are more than capable of it. It will feel different after running a bit slower but I think you would find it easy very quickly.

Your esteemed mentors know my avowed views on the benefits of running slowly hahaha which makes this a first...they probably never thought they'd hear me give advice to someone to feel free to train faster!!!

Thanks very much for the detailed reply.

This morning I went to parkrun and said I would do it by feel - didn't look at the watch once.

It felt easy enough although I sensed that I was going faster than normal. At the end it registered an average pace of 7:12 which would be faster than what you suggest above. My HR was 176 but again I understand that this might not be accurate.

Regarding the potential hernia situation, advice from my GP on Wed was to carry on running as normal but to get physio advice on stretching and gym work. So, with that in mind I am going to ease back into my training. Today went well. Will do just a 10km tomorrow and will take things from there.

Will see how the 8:10 - 8:45 pace goes for me.

Thank you again