DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Mr. Guappa

wpd wrote: »

looking for advice my longest run has been 24km had to take last week off after 16km that was supposed to be 28km on sunday
had so much pain and stiffness i wasnt running but shuffling.
Managed 10km on saturday with a bit of knee pain but back running rather than shuffling

Should i try and get 32Km this weekend and then taper or just go for approx 21-24km

not bothered really about time finishing marathon just want to finish in decent shape

thanks all advice appreciated

Hi wpd... welcome to the thread!

It's difficult to give advice without more detail on how your training has gone overall. I'd be more worried about the knee pain than what distance to run this weekend - have you seen a physio? It may be that a few simple exercises will solve the issue.

Karlos80 wrote: »

How was Week 14?
Surprisingly comfortable.
Mon 4 miles (10:10p/m)
Tues 8 miles (10:15p/m)
Thur 5 miles (10:19p/m)
Sat 20 miles (10:34p/m)
Sun 3 miles (10:58p/m)
Runs on Tues, Thurs, and Sat I ran early miles a few secs slower per mile, and took a few secs off pace as I went on, felt very easy. 20 miles on sat I felt went very well, I thought it flew, prob because I was listening to the rugby on it. Felt fine after, like there was still plenty in the tank. Maybe my tougher weeks/runs are waiting in the long grass ahead.
Are you looking forward to the taper?
Very much so, (hoping I have) more time to do other things that have been neglected.

Very nice week - especially on the back of a race. And no mention of the injury - I'll take that as a good sign on that front?

Mr. Guappa

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Just got confirmation i've been moved up to wave 3! Happy with that

How was week 14?

I found it ok tbh, challenging but i enjoyed that part of it.

Am i looking forward to the taper?

Yes & no...i love the structure of the plan & have a feeling i may feel a bit lost but also looking forward to a bit more of a rest. Its all completely new territory so if i being honest i dont really know what to expect:eek:

That's good news on the wave front. What's the plan so - run with the 4 hour pacers until Castleknock and then move ahead? Or just do your own thing anyway?

There is still plenty of structure throughout the taper, so you definitely won't be lost. There will be the same amount of runs, just slightly less miles each time - which will be very welcome if this weather sticks around!

mister paul wrote: »

How was week 14 for you?

Probably the toughest week so far. I was tired from the HM when I ran Wednesdays session and although I got through it okay, I struggled a bit more than the previous 10@MP two weeks before.

Sunday was a struggle at times as well, particularly around Milltown and Clonskeagh. First time since week 2 that I've had negative thoughts during a run, but it felt good to get to the top of Roebuck and then be able to push on for the last 0.5 mile of 22 to the DCM finish line.

Visited the physio today. Nothing much to report, just some general tightness, but at this stage of training, I'd prefer to get any hint of a niggle looked at before it becomes something more. Also booked in for the Wednesday before the marathon to get one last punishment session in.

Are you looking forward to the taper?

Definitely looking forward to the beginning of the taper madness. My plan doesn't start taper until after next Wednesday's session, so I'll be jealously listening to others while attempting 14mi @ MP.

Random question - I noticed you ran 13.31 miles in the HM. Do you think that was an accurate figure, or a bit of a Garmin glitch? It just struck me as a touch more than most - I did it 13.17, and 13.20 seems about the norm.

Sorbet

Just saw this on twitter;

KBC Dublin Marathon (@dublinmarathon) tweeted at 8:27 PM on Mon, Sep 30, 2019:

The #KBCDublinMarathon pacers are as follows: 

��Wave 1 - 3:00, 3:10 & 3:20
��Wave 2 - 3:30, 3:40 & 3:50
��Wave 3 - 4:00, 4:10 & 4:20
��Wave 4 - 4:30, 4:40, 4:50 & 5:00

Laineyfrecks

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

That's good news on the wave front. What's the plan so - run with the 4 hour pacers until Castleknock and then move ahead? Or just do your own thing anyway?

There is still plenty of structure throughout the taper, so you definitely won't be lost. There will be the same amount of runs, just slightly less miles each time - which will be very welcome if this weather sticks around!



Random question - I noticed you ran 13.31 miles in the HM. Do you think that was an accurate figure, or a bit of a Garmin glitch? It just struck me as a touch more than most - I did it 13.17, and 13.20 seems about the norm.

l think i'll decide on a plan closer to the day, i'm really happy with my training and want to wait and see how the legs feel during the taper

Mr. Guappa

eabha19 wrote: »

Week 14 started off feeling a little down and doubting myself after the HM. Also the hubby went away golfing to Portugal so been trying to work around single parenting duties too. Not quite sure when but during the week I definitely got more zen and positive about everything. I felt really grateful that I had had a tough race at the half as it gave me perspective on what I want to achieve at the marathon which basically is that I want to get the buzz of crossing that line feeling like a superhero and that has nothing to do with times!! I also felt fairly kick ass that despite himself being away that I just did it, whether it was 10:40 p.m. or 6:25 a.m. I realised that not doing it for me wasn't an option. Who is this person?!! In June if you had told me I'd be running 6 times a week for marathon training I would have pulled out thinking no way. This week I hit 70km on strava - true they were all way slower than I was running in June too but am still pretty chuffed with that. My only wobble was about doing 22 or 20 miles on Saturday. I went with the great Huzzah and stuck with 20 miles and then looked at strava when I came back and all my mates had a 35k done and I felt like a total under-achiever!! But I actually felt pretty good for the 20 miles - I mean don't get me wrong my legs were very heavy for that park run at the end but my ankle and heel felt fine and my brain was talking nice to me rather than negatively. As for the taper I'm kind of excited about the thoughts of taking it a bit easier but maybe I'll be cracking up by the end. Am mixing up my mid week runs this week as I did last week to try to get the longer runs out of the way on my days off work so I did 5 miles today and will do the MP miles tomorrow. Was delighted I got it done this morning before the torrential rain started. My one big blip is that I have't gotten on top of my food intake at all - eating rings around me of whatever the hell I like. I haven't gained any weight (miraculously) but I certainly haven't lost any either - had a half baked idea that I'd be a skinny minny size 10 running through the finish line in October but that would have needed a few less crisps and kit kats to be realised!

You have zero need to feel like an under-achiever, especially over 2 (unnecessary) miles! Just look back at the total mileage you've knocked out over the past 14 weeks. Phenomenal!

I especially liked this line:
"I realised that not doing it for me wasn't an option."

kemcloughlin wrote: »

How can this all be over in 4 weeks?!

Am I happy with last week?
Last week was ok miles wise.

Mon 3 mile easy 13:16/mile
Tue 3 mile easy 12:45/mile
Wed 4 mile easy 12.48/mile - was supposed to be 6 mile but cut short due to dark
Fri 14 mile LSR 14.39/mile - including 7 miles walking because I couldn't be bothered...
Sunday 6 mile easy 11.58/mile

I started taking Immoflex to boost my immune system and also glucosamine for my joints. Feeling good and knee is fine. Went for a massage on Saturday to loosen out tightness on the left side.

Looking forward to the taper?
Yes! Doing Longwood this weekend and then in my head it's all easy from there on...until the big day!

That's a touch more like it on the paces - not quite there yet though Great to hear the knee is improved too.

Best of luck with Longwood - just remember that it's all EASY there too!

Mr. Guappa

clickhere wrote: »

How was week 14. I think it went very well, and managed to get all runs done. Monday 6.69/km @ 6:17/km Wed13.62 @6.19/km Thurs 8.82 @6.01/km Sat 32.20/km @6:20/km Looking forward to another big week befour the taper . On the question of a finishing time for the marathon, I am looking for your advice. Now my present fitness levels are 5K 23:26. 10K 49:55. Half Marathon 1:49:18. When the taper comes along, i would like to get a sports message. Looking for suggestions in the Palmerstown Dublin area. I find this homework harder than the running. Sorry if its all over the place. Thank you.

I can't help with the physio recommendation in the Palmerstown area, but I'm sure there is someone around here who will be able to assist!

As regards finishing time - I think you are very likely to improve on your 2014 time anyway. You might be in with a shot of a sub 4 if that appeals to you, but 4:05 is definitely achievable.

DBB wrote: »

How was Week 14?
Feelings of being glad it's done, but at the same time I mostly enjoyed it despite the fatigue
I found it hard to get into *the zone* for the first 3 miles of the longer midweek run (9 miles), but I know a mental battle when I see one so kept going knowing this will surely pass, and ended up feeling strong and up for more.
I deliberately chose the last two Saturdays' LSR routes to include some challenging hills, including one in the closing miles that I'm hoping will prepare me for Heartbreak Hill
I had a knee niggle seen to on Tuesday, I've been doing my exercises and S&C for that, and already the niggle is gone. Physio said these little niggles often resolve during the taper anyway. Going back for a check-up just after the start of the taper next week.
Happy with the pre-LSR breakfast routine now, happy with gels and hydration... I tried a caffeine gel on Saturday and happy it didn't cause any ill effects... I thought it might as I don't drink coffee so not used to caffeine over and above what's in a cuppa tae.
Overall, I *think* I'm starting to feel cautiously ready for this. I think.

Am I looking forward to the taper?
Ooooh yes! I can't see taper madness being an issue for me (that'd be my inner lazy fecker coming out), and like Bananaleaf, I both want the marathon to happen now, and want it not to happen for a while yet

Longwood next Sunday! Seems to be a few of us doing it, so hopefully get to meet ye there! I'm sure the Longwood natives won't bat an eyelid at people asking them are they the internet peoples

Nice week - you are doing all the right things for a successful marathon (although those easy miles could be a bit easier )

As for a novices meeting at Longwood - if you bring flapjacks, they will come :pac:

mister paul

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Random question - I noticed you ran 13.31 miles in the HM. Do you think that was an accurate figure, or a bit of a Garmin glitch? It just struck me as a touch more than most - I did it 13.17, and 13.20 seems about the norm.

Yeah. A few runs have been measuring as long recently. I think it's related to using GPS + Galileo for tracking. It seemed to be a bit less accurate generally and on occasion would just give an incorrect reading. During the HM, when running up the last hill it has me jumping 20 metres to the right and then back on track again.

I've switched it back to GPS + Glonass and fingers crossed things will be back to normal.

frash

Had to get my 3 midweek runs in early due to well, life I guess

5, 10, 4 (was supposed to be 5 but didn't have time).
will do 20 on Saturday & then it's tapertastic!

In case any mentors are on my Strava - my GPS was acting up today & I did not run my 2nd mile @ 9 min/mile

Dante

What does tapering actually involve?

Obviously theres the significant cutting down the milage, but should you actually decrease the pace of the remaining runs as well? From what I read very little can be gained in terms of fitness during this period but quite a bit can be lost by over/under doing it.

In terms of diet I'm guessing it involves tackling a lot of carbs and protein, particularly in the last week leading up to the race.

py

py

To add to the above, my understanding of the physiology adaptions that occur during a marathon training program (perhaps mentioned earlier in this thread or I've read/watched it elsewhere) is that your muscles adapt rather quickly but your tendons take a little longer. If you take the HHN1 crew who have their 20mile/32Km LSR this weekend, the muscles will adapt rather quickly (say a few days) but the tendons can take longer (several weeks). So while we're dropping the duration of our runs over the 3 week taper to maintain our aerobic and muscle fitness, the tendons are still in adaption mode.

As per the video, the intensity (your time per mile/Km and/or HR) will remain the same, it's the distance that drops. Relating it back to the LSR this weekend for HHN1 crew, we will probably reach peak fitness after completing it and will see a very small drop off in aerobic fitness by the time we run the marathon. However, when the marathon comes around we will be in a much fresher state compared to when this week's LSR is complete. It's a bit difficult to explain in text but I mentioned the "Fitness" feature within Strava which can show how your workouts are having an effect. This is also a useful video from Training Peaks

Diet for the taper is something I've been mulling over lately too. Not going to make any drastic changes this late in the game but given the shorter mileage weeks coming up I'm going to have to monitor caloric intake and how I'm feeling during the runs.

DolG

FYI. DCM are providing gun times for each wave for this year’s marathon.

Huzzah!

DaaaaaaaaaaN wrote: »

What does tapering actually involve?

Obviously theres the significant cutting down the milage, but should you actually decrease the pace of the remaining runs as well? From what I read very little can be gained in terms of fitness during this period but quite a bit can be lost by over/under doing it.

In terms of diet I'm guessing it involves tackling a lot of carbs and protein, particularly in the last week leading up to the race.

In terms of tapering, provided you're running your runs at the correct pace, you should maintain the pace during taper. The idea for taper is that you retain two of the three, ie: you retain the number of days' running and the paces at which you run at. The third item - the mileage - decreases, so you're not cutting too much from your training. This has a number of benefits, not least of which is maintaining a routine, which will help mitigate against maranoia.

In terms of nutrition, there shouldn't be a huge need to drastically change your diet during taper. Maybe watch the snacking so you don't pack on the pounds.

Huzzah!

Ais_Byrne7 wrote: »

Week 14 was good for me! I had to mess around with the schedule a bit as I was travelling at the weekend. I had to forfeit one midweek run to squeeze in the LSR but overall the week went fine.

3 mile @ 11:16
7mile @11:06
14mile @ 11:46


Am I looking forward to taper?

Yes, can’t wait to get some rest in.

At the same time.....THE FEAR LADS, can’t believe this weekend will be our longest run and then that’s it, all about recovery and building up the energy bank till race day. Time has gone so fast and the nerves are really starting to kick in. ����������

Nice work getting most of the runs in despite a busy week. Slow the runs down a bit more for the duration of the plan. Your PMP is 11:10/m, so you should be at least running 12 minute miles.

Nothing to be nervous about. You guys will be amongst the best prepared first timers on the starting line.

kyomi wrote: »

How was Week 14?
It went well, being pretty similar to week 12. A total of 45 miles including a 20-mile LSR (covering the last 16 miles of the DCM route) and a 10-mile midweek run with 5 PMP miles. The other runs were 6 miles and 2 x 4 miles easy.

For the LSR, on the suggestion of a marathon-experienced colleague I decided to try taking gels every 4 miles rather than every 6. No bad effects but no particularly good effects either, and I ended up feeling quite full by the end. So I think I'll try taking one every 5 miles in the next LSR and see how that goes, being prepared to drop back to every 6 miles which was the original plan.

My 10-miler on Thursday evening went OK pace-wise (5 miles at PMP as per plan) but just about everything else went wrong - I got completely, wringing, soaking wet due to torrential rain, and I got terrible indigestion almost as soon as I started, which got steadily worse for the entire run. I had to stop a couple of times as I thought I might get sick (I didn't). Pace didn't seem to have any effect in terms of making the indigestion any better or any worse, but just from the sheer discomfort I was relieved to get to the end of the five PMP miles and slow down a bit. I really hope that doesn't happen on marathon day, but I think it's unlikely, as this run was an evening one and I'd had a late lunch (although I thought it was quite a small lunch) - obviously I won't be replicating this on race day.

Are you looking forward to the taper?
I'm feeling quite neutral about it. I'm still enjoying the training, and I think it's mostly because I've made a habit of doing the same runs at the same time and on the same day each week (with varying distances if necessary). I'd be enjoying all this a LOT less if I was rushing around trying to fit runs in around work and family life, organize child minding, etc., which was a big risk for me as I'm naturally quite disorganized and get stressed out easily. I think for future training blocks I'll aim to stick to the same strategy of picking times when I can fit the runs in and then just doing them every week no matter what. It also means there's a lot less "But it's raining! Maybe I'll do it later"-type arguing with myself, which is helpful.

So no, I'm not particularly waiting for a rest - I feel like I could do a good few more weeks of training at this level. (My knees might disagree though - they were a bit niggly coming down stairs the day after the LSR!)

I also worry that I'll put on weight during the taper if I keep up the eating habits I've developed over the last few months!

So, you managed a five-mile PMP run despite suffering from rotten indigestion? Fair play and well done on not giving up.

Try and get your gel strategy nailed down soon.

Mind those knees! Nice week. Well done.

py

DolG wrote: »

FYI. DCM are providing gun times for each wave for this year’s marathon.

In addition to chip timing?

Kellygirl

py wrote: »

In addition to chip timing?

Yes it would be. Last year there was just one gun time so if you started off in a wave 30 mins after the gun your gun time was your race time plus 30 mins plus whatever amount of time it took to cross the start line. Chip time is your own time and is from the time you crossed the start line to finish line.

Mr. Guappa

Just a heads up Storm Lorenzo in case anyone isn't aware.

If you've a run penciled in for tomorrow it might be wise to get it done early, if possible. Or kick it to Friday. Obviously don't take any unnecessary risks just to get a few miles in!

clickhere

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I can't help with the physio recommendation in the Palmerstown area, but I'm sure there is someone around here who will be able to assist!

As regards finishing time - I think you are very likely to improve on your 2014 time anyway. You might be in with a shot of a sub 4 if that appeals to you, but 4:05 is definitely achievable.



Nice week - you are doing all the right things for a successful marathon (although those easy miles could be a bit easier )

As for a novices meeting at Longwood - if you bring flapjacks, they will come :pac:

Thanks for the Reply Mr G. I was following the advice you have been giving about going out easy and having a negative split. I don't think I want to chase the 4 hour time with the risk of ruining my marathon. I've really enjoyed all the training and would hate to to finish it off with a bad experience on the day. As one of our fellow Novices said, we all get the same medal Thanks again to you and all the mentors for all the help and encouragement. It will take more than Lorenzo to stop the class of 2019. 🀣🀣

Sunday Runner

Huzzah! wrote: »

Delighted to hear your knee is much improved. Sounds like you're better prepared that you think for D Day, which is nice to hear. I'm sure you'll work out a way to the start. The only thing I would say about friends and family having supplies on the course is that they might be quite hard to see. Do you have a backup plan if they are?

Good luck in Longwood.

My belt holds quite a bit, so i'll have my gels with me. I'll also have a few electrolyte tablets to drop into water, in case I can't get to my fans!

My two runs so far this week, I have taken relatively handy, but my HR was through the roof. I'm running along casually and i'll look at my watch and i'm at 180+. Woke up this morning smothered with a cold and sore throat. I'll be fine, but it explains my HR. I thought I was going backwards with my fitness.

Mr. Guappa

Anyone with doubts about how all those training miles will translate to you being able to run 26.2 miles at marathon pace might find this article interesting.

Laineyfrecks

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Anyone with doubts about how all those training miles will translate to you being able to run 26.2 miles at marathon pace might find this article interesting.

Cheers i really needed to read that!

3boyz

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Anyone with doubts about how all those training miles will translate to you being able to run 26.2 miles at marathon pace might find this article interesting.

Thanks for posting, articles like this really help when you begin to lose confidence.
Good luck to everyone doing their final long run this weekend! Taper here we come 😝

kyomi

Great article, thanks!

I've had a bit of a disaster - a toe infection from what seems like an ingrown toenail. It's so painful I physically can't make my foot come down on that side. I've already missed two runs (a 4-miler yesterday and a 10-miles today) and I'm starting to panic a bit! I've a doctor's appointment booked for early tomorrow in case it doesn't improve. Luckily this week's long run isn't until Sunday, which gives me an extra day's leeway. I'd be gutted to miss it though- I'm already antsy from missing two runs.

I'm also worried about the foot generally- coming down on the outside of my foot constantly has made that area start to ache, just from walking to the bus and going from building to building at work. I'm trying to avoid walking as much as possible but it's difficult! I suppose there's no one more precious about their body than an upcoming marathoner...

py

Can I recommend you go to a chiropodist instead of a doctor? Can't imagine there's too much a doctor can do for you apart from provide a cream of some sort.

3boyz

py wrote: »

Can I recommend you go to a chiropodist instead of a doctor? Can't imagine there's too much a doctor can do for you apart from provide a cream of some sort.

kyomi wrote: »

Great article, thanks!

I've had a bit of a disaster - a toe infection from what seems like an ingrown toenail. It's so painful I physically can't make my foot come down on that side. I've already missed two runs (a 4-miler yesterday and a 10-miles today) and I'm starting to panic a bit! I've a doctor's appointment booked for early tomorrow in case it doesn't improve. Luckily this week's long run isn't until Sunday, which gives me an extra day's leeway. I'd be gutted to miss it though- I'm already antsy from missing two runs.

I'm also worried about the foot generally- coming down on the outside of my foot constantly has made that area start to ache, just from walking to the bus and going from building to building at work. I'm trying to avoid walking as much as possible but it's difficult! I suppose there's no one more precious about their body than an upcoming marathoner...

You may need both, my son suffers from this, cost me a fortune between one gp for antibiotics but who doesnt carry out the procedure to remove an ingrown toenail, then tried a chiropodist, who removed part of it, and then had to have it surgically removed by another g.p. who carries out the procedure in their office. It was a nightmare and very very painful. The chiropodist recommended shoes with a wide toe box, not sure if that would help at this stage. Hope you get sorted quickly.

py

Yeah, have had part of an ingrown toenail removed by chiropodist before, hence the recommendation. Best of luck with it.

kyomi

Thanks very much, I'd made the doctors appointment thinking an antibiotic would be required, but a few people have said I should go to a chiropodist. Never had an ingrown toenail before so I didn't realise! I'll ring a chiropodist in the morning and see what they say.

Sorbet

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Anyone with doubts about how all those training miles will translate to you being able to run 26.2 miles at marathon pace might find this article interesting.

Brilliant stuff Mr. G and perfectly timed as always.

py

Eerily quiet on here today Tomorrow's 20m mile run is a big one... But just another run imo. Hope it goes well for everyone.

rizzee

Got 2 8kms in this week on Tuesday and Thursday , one which wasn't logged & missed my 16km due to work. Not looking back on it, I have the gear set for the 32km tomorrow morning, I'll be on the road after a 9am visit to the dentist Good luck to everyone tomorrow