DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

DBB · 19-10-2019 1:46pm

frash wrote: »

Still waiting for these "fresh legs" despite missing a run midweek and doing some runs shorter than in the plan.

Did 6 instead of 8 this morning.

Hopefully they freshen up this week.

You're not alone frash

I didn't have any fresh leg feeling during the week. Felt a little better on this morning's LSR but I'm still not feeling exactly gazelle-like

Bananaleaf · 19-10-2019 1:53pm

The Black Oil wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odM6POAQfNQ

Official course video just appeared.

Oh jaysus :eek:

Mr. Guappa · 19-10-2019 2:20pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Oh jaysus :eek:

Goosebumps!

8 days to go

eabha19 · 19-10-2019 2:26pm

DBB wrote: »

You're not alone frash
I didn't have any fresh leg feeling during the week. Felt a little better on this morning's LSR but I'm still not feeling exactly gazelle-like

Snap for me too. I was feeling more 'meh' this week than fresh. Having said that I was guilty of both upping the pace and running more miles than planned today. The dog was mostly to blame for upping the pace - my first four miles were with her and she was hyper after two days without a walk, it was just easier to let her drag me than have to hold her back! I thought my route was a 9 miler but turned out to be almost 11 miles - since the miles reduced I've stopped my Saturday evening route planning on strava and it shows!! So close now lads - me nerves!

Mr. Guappa · 19-10-2019 3:47pm

Charliebull wrote: »

I have lots of awareness thank you, it’s a serious question, I know a lad who ran a 3-09 marathon and crossed the line with his kids, he said crossing the line with them was better than any time,
And if the rules allow I will do it, if it’s a problem and banned then I won’t, your pb is your right to follow but if I want to experience it with my kids I will too
It was a simple question and only required a simple answer
Not a lecture

Ah here... that's not a lecture. You asked a genuine question and received a perfectly valid response, complete with explanation. Answers are always better when accompanied by some reasoning or personal experience.

Mr. Guappa · 19-10-2019 4:07pm

Prospector1989 wrote: »

Haven't posted since my incident at the Half Marathon.

Still following the plans but not as strictly as I wasn't enjoying my running after the HM.

Just wanted to focus on enjoying it (after all that's why I'm doing this).

I had initially started the training with a goal of a sub 4 marathon.

Following a busy summer I realised sub 4 was probably unrealistic but said I'd set a goal closer to the time.

Completed last years DCM in 4:47:xx on a lot less training setting my optimistic goal for this at 4:20 with my backup goal to get in under last year's time.

I don't post often in the thread but read it every day. It's an invaluable resource.

Best of luck all!

Most important thing is to try enjoy the day!

Good to hear you've bounced back after the Half Marathon.

I would just like to sound a note of caution on your target time - 4:20 strikes me as wildly optimistic. My advice would be to follow the 4:50 pacers until the Walkinstown roundabout and assess things after that. If you go out at 4:20 pace it's not going to end well.

py · 19-10-2019 5:39pm

Some long range weather from windy.com for 10am on DCM day:

Temperature
Humidity
Wind
Rain

passinginterest · 19-10-2019 6:00pm

py wrote: »

Some long range weather from windy.com for 10am on DCM day:

Temperature
Humidity
Wind
Rain

Hope it’s not as warm as 16. It was like that in 2014 and it was extremely difficult. Accuweather is predicting high of 13 which would be grand.

frash · 19-10-2019 6:09pm

passinginterest wrote: »

Hope it’s not as warm as 16. It was like that in 2014 and it was extremely difficult. Accuweather is predicting high of 13 which would be grand.

Yr.no saying 13 too and I find them very reliable

Singer · 19-10-2019 6:23pm

frash wrote: »

Yr.no saying 13 too and I find them very reliable

It’s good fun looking at the long term forecasts, but we won’t get anything actually reliable until later in the week. Doesn’t stop me from checking every day though

Mr. Guappa · 19-10-2019 8:20pm

frash wrote: »

Still waiting for these "fresh legs" despite missing a run midweek and doing some runs shorter than in the plan.

Did 6 instead of 8 this morning.

Hopefully they freshen up this week.

DBB wrote: »

You're not alone frash
I didn't have any fresh leg feeling during the week. Felt a little better on this morning's LSR but I'm still not feeling exactly gazelle-like

Everyone will react differently to the taper. The absence of that "fresh legs" feeling could be due to your body and legs working extra hard to recover, and also due to more glycogen being stored in the muscles. This is a perfectly normal feeling, so don't worry if you're not bounding about the place - You will be ready come race day!

DBB · 19-10-2019 8:27pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Everyone will react differently to the taper. The absence of that "fresh legs" feeling could be due to your body and legs working extra hard to recover, and also due to more glycogen being stored in the muscles. This is a perfectly normal feeling, so don't worry if you're not bounding about the place - You will be ready come race day!

If I could thank your post a hundred times, I would

Thanks Mr G, that's much appreciated

frash · 19-10-2019 8:31pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Everyone will react differently to the taper. The absence of that "fresh legs" feeling could be due to your body and legs working extra hard to recover, and also due to more glycogen being stored in the muscles. This is a perfectly normal feeling, so don't worry if you're not bounding about the place - You will be ready come race day!

I did 6 miles today instead of 8

It's there anything to be said for maybe doing only one or two of the remaining runs to get the legs that bit fresher quicker.

Instead of the 3 in the plan I mean.

Mr. Guappa · 19-10-2019 8:41pm

frash wrote: »

I did 6 miles today instead of 8

It's there anything to be said for maybe doing only one or two of the remaining runs to get the legs that bit fresher quicker.

Instead of the 3 in the plan I mean.

Unless you're worried about an injury, then I'd stick to the plan for next week. Our bodies like consistency and routine, which is why the number of days stays the same and just the distance decreases.

Bananaleaf · 19-10-2019 8:47pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Everyone will react differently to the taper. The absence of that "fresh legs" feeling could be due to your body and legs working extra hard to recover, and also due to more glycogen being stored in the muscles. This is a perfectly normal feeling, so don't worry if you're not bounding about the place - You will be ready come race day!

Thank god for that. I aint feeling them either :eek:

I worked out my pacing plan during the week. It's pretty basic. I want to give myself the best possible chance of finishing in under 5hrs, so I've come up with the following:

1st 7miles @12min/m pace (bringing me up to 1:24)
gel at miles 4 + 7
miles 7 - 13 @11:30min/m pace (up to 2:33)
banana at mile 10
13 - 26.2 miles @11min/m pace (to arrive at a finish of 4:58:12)
gel at miles 14, 17 + 24, banana at mile 21
Assess at mile 24 and if I can, speed it up a bit (too late?)

Is this okay? Used two calculators and cool running pace calculator so hopefully my maths are right. Checking it again as we speak ...

Mr. Guappa · 19-10-2019 9:34pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Thank god for that. I aint feeling them either :eek:

I worked out my pacing plan during the week. It's pretty basic. I want to give myself the best possible chance of finishing in under 5hrs, so I've come up with the following:

1st 7miles @12min/m pace (bringing me up to 1:24)
gel at miles 4 + 7
miles 7 - 13 @11:30min/m pace (up to 2:33)
banana at mile 10
13 - 26.2 miles @11min/m pace (to arrive at a finish of 4:58:12)
gel at miles 14, 17 + 24, banana at mile 21
Assess at mile 24 and if I can, speed it up a bit (too late?)

Is this okay? Used two calculators and cool running pace calculator so hopefully my maths are right. Checking it again as we speak ...

First off - congratulations on hitting the 1,000 miles milestone for the year - a great achievement!

I'd have a couple of issues with your pacing plan:

I think you are being too conservative with your goal time. 4:45 should be attainable.
You are being far too cautious at the start. Yes, it is smart to aim to run a negative split on this course, but what you propose there is too drastic.

Would you consider starting with the 4:50 pacers, and seeing how you are after the Walkinstown roundabout (mile 15)?

A gel at mile 24 is probably too late - it will take up to 20 minutes for your body to process the gel so it will just be fueling your jouney form the finish to McGrattans

rainbow kirby · 19-10-2019 9:41pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Thank god for that. I aint feeling them either :eek:

I worked out my pacing plan during the week. It's pretty basic. I want to give myself the best possible chance of finishing in under 5hrs, so I've come up with the following:

1st 7miles @12min/m pace (bringing me up to 1:24)
gel at miles 4 + 7
miles 7 - 13 @11:30min/m pace (up to 2:33)
banana at mile 10
13 - 26.2 miles @11min/m pace (to arrive at a finish of 4:58:12)
gel at miles 14, 17 + 24, banana at mile 21
Assess at mile 24 and if I can, speed it up a bit (too late?)

Is this okay? Used two calculators and cool running pace calculator so hopefully my maths are right. Checking it again as we speak ...

Honestly, I would prefer to plan for a steady pace. I don't ever put much faith in being able to run a negative split. Safest option is to start with the 5 hour pacers (or 4:50 if you are feeling confident!) or if you just want to run to your own watch I would probably shoot for 7 min/km pace from the outset, 5 hour pace is 7:07/km.

Bananaleaf · 19-10-2019 9:47pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

First off - congratulations on hitting the 1,000 miles milestone for the year - a great achievement!

I'd have a couple of issues with your pacing plan:
I think you are being too conservative with your goal time. 4:45 should be attainable.

You are being far too cautious at the start. Yes, it is smart to aim to run a negative split on this course, but what you propose there is too drastic.

Would you consider starting with the 4:50 pacers, and seeing how you are after the Walkinstown roundabout (mile 15)?

A gel at mile 24 is probably too late - it will take up to 20 minutes for your body to process the gel so it will just be fueling your jouney form the finish to McGrattans

Thank you

I am delighted to hit 1,000 miles.

Mr Guappa - you have more faith in me than I have in myself! Starting with 4:50 pacers would mean an 11min/m start, which is the PMP that I trained at, so in theory I suppose I should be able to maintain that, but I am really really REALLY scared of running out of juice.

I know you have addressed this above too, but I think that not feeling these fresh taper legs has me further convinced that I cant run the whole thing at PMP.

Although I guess that if I started with 4:50 pacers and felt it was too much at the beginning I could then slow down?

I will change gels to 13m, 16m and 22m and the banana at 19m. That way I am taking fuel every 3 miles, from mile 4 onwards.

Thanks Mr G for the great feedback and for believing in me!

DeepBlue · 19-10-2019 10:40pm

Would anyone like to collect a race pack for me?

Found out during the week that I'm working next Saturday with noone available to swap (kinda unsurprising on a Bank Holiday weekend).
It's possible I might make it to Dublin in time to collect my pack but it's equally likely that I'll be delayed.

Mr. Guappa · 20-10-2019 10:59am

DeepBlue wrote: »

Would anyone like to collect a race pack for me?

Found out during the week that I'm working next Saturday with noone available to swap (kinda unsurprising on a Bank Holiday weekend).
It's possible I might make it to Dublin in time to collect my pack but it's equally likely that I'll be delayed.

I'm happy to collect it for you if it helps. In order to do so, I think I have to produce a signed letter from you as well as a copy of your passport or drivers license. It will be Saturday afternoon when I'll be heading to the expo. Drop me a PM if it suits.

py · 20-10-2019 12:03pm

The book "Two Hours: The Quest to Run the Impossible Marathon" was mentioned in this week's episode of Marathon Talk so I picked it up and I'm a little way in to it. There are some interesting comments on marathoning within:

Twenty-six miles and 385 yards is not just a distance. It has become a metaphor. Nobody finds the marathon easy – even professionals, especially professionals. The distance is democratic that way. Everyone who runs a marathon is running against his or her limits. Everyone is forced to manage a certain amount of pain and to recruit hidden reserves. Whatever one’s talent or preparation, nobody runs an easy marathon.

This follows just afterwards...

On the other side of the coin, the marathon is also a race that is possible for almost anyone with enough patience and willpower to complete. The distance is democratic that way, too. For this reason, it has become an event against which hordes of everyday people – fat people, thin people; people crooked by time and people sprightly as foals; rich people and people in need – test themselves.

the marathon is not primarily a test of athletic talent, but a test of character.

Doc76 · 20-10-2019 6:38pm

Something I was thinking about on my run today and was hoping some Dublin marathon veterans out there could chime in... the last time I did a marathon many many moons ago the support of spectators really made a difference especially later on in the race... wondering now that I will be out there for 5 hours or so what’s the support like for slower runners? Are the crowds still around or will it be thinning out/waning by then? Just want to be prepared if there’s deafening silence especially in the last hour or so!!

Doc76 · 20-10-2019 6:40pm

py wrote: »

The book "Two Hours: The Quest to Run the Impossible Marathon" was mentioned in this week's episode of Marathon Talk so I picked it up and I'm a little way in to it. There are some interesting comments on marathoning within:

This follows just afterwards...

Great stuff there thanks for sharing! I need a new book now might pick that one up to motivate me for next year

passinginterest · 20-10-2019 6:51pm

Doc76 wrote: »

Something I was thinking about on my run today and was hoping some Dublin marathon veterans out there could chime in... the last time I did a marathon many many moons ago the support of spectators really made a difference especially later on in the race... wondering now that I will be out there for 5 hours or so what’s the support like for slower runners? Are the crowds still around or will it be thinning out/waning by then? Just want to be prepared if there’s deafening silence especially in the last hour or so!!

I’ve been out supporting at a few different points and I’d say the 4-5 hour finishers probably get the peak crowds. No shortage of support up to 6 hours at least.

Bananaleaf · 20-10-2019 7:00pm

passinginterest wrote: »

I’ve been out supporting at a few different points and I’d say the 4-5 hour finishers probably get the peak crowds. No shortage of support up to 6 hours at least.

I've only supported once but I can back this up.

Doc76 · 20-10-2019 7:43pm

Phew that’s good to hear...thanks passinginterest and bananaleaf!

Mr. Guappa · 20-10-2019 9:48pm

WEEK 18 - THE FINAL COUNTDOWN

You may have heard about the idea of carb loading before a race. It's true that we will try and top up our glycogen stores before Sunday, but that's not an excuse to eat all round you this week. A little extra in portion size should do it, with particular focus on simple carbs such as pasta. We will come back to this as the week progresses.

ariana' produced a nice checklist for us last year, so I may as well re-use it now. Use the early part of the week to have all this organised, and avoid any last-minute hassle:

- Race outfit is clean and ready to go
- Any additional race kit - waist belt, sun visor, sunglasses etc.
- Body glide if you use it
- Throw away clothes to keep warm beforehand
- Race fuel & hydration
- Evening before meal (you may need to book a restaurant if you're staying in Dublin over-night?)
- Pre-race breakfast (if you're staying in a hotel you may want to check if they provide breakfast or bring your own - porridge pots are very handy for this)
- Pre-race snack (something to eat in the half hour before you start)
- Book bus/train if you're using it to get to Dublin on Saturday
- Check and double check public transport times if you're using it
- Cut your toe nails :eek:
- Pin down arrangements for your supporters to see you on the course

To those of you who are dealing with injury - we've all got our fingers crossed for you. Whichever way it turns out, you've achieved a great deal in getting to this point and can be very proud of what you've accomplished this summer.

As is tradition, we'll put up a table this week, probably tomorrow, for you all to populate with your target times. Over the past while, we've given our thoughts on what you should be aiming for, so hopefully you'll take that advice on board! As always, if you've any queries on race strategy or target times, just ask

Homework:
Are you ready?

Have a great week folks - marathon training really is a heck of a journey.

SEVEN MORE SLEEPS :pac:

py · 20-10-2019 10:34pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Are you ready?

I think so

Week is lined up as follows:
Monday - Sports massage
Tuesday - Cut toenails
Wednesday - Finalise post race contents of backpack to be dropped off at bag area and also my hydration pack (excluding liquid of course

)
Thursday - Final DCM 2019 training run

but also :cool:
Friday - DCM Expo at lunch time
Saturday - try not to lose my mind and get some sleep
Sunday - Run this town... and pending other stuff, hit McGrattans for a beverage.

I think I've nailed down a race plan but if it's too complicated/optimistic then I'm just going to stick the 4:00 pacers. As a 4:00 time equates to 5:41min/Km, I've done a +/- total at the end of each line as to how I should be at the stage of my plan. Thoughts/comments on it are welcome:

5:50min/Km up until Castleknock (end of 11Km) +99sec
5:30min/Km until re-entry to Phoenix Park (12-13Km) +77sec
Ease up on re-entry to Phoenix Park
5:30min/Km up until St Laurence’s drag/hill +44sec
6:00min/Km for St. Laurence’s drag/hill (end of 17) +63sec
5:30min/Km until Coombe +30sec
5:50min/Km until Crumlin Hospital +48sec
5:30min/Km until Clonskeagh/Ashtons -62sec
6:00min/Km until Heartbreak hill -5sec
Last 6Km… TBD/Try hang in there for Sub-4

Lastly, big thank you Mr. Guappa/ReeReeG/Huzzah. Your guidance, knowledge and patience is what has made the novices training program so enjoyable for me. Also, the flapjacks, they played a huge part. :pac:

Huzzah! · 21-10-2019 7:57am

py wrote: »

I think so

Week is lined up as follows:
Monday - Sports massage
Tuesday - Cut toenails
Wednesday - Finalise post race contents of backpack to be dropped off at bag area and also my hydration pack (excluding liquid of course )
Thursday - Final DCM 2019 training run but also :cool:
Friday - DCM Expo at lunch time
Saturday - try not to lose my mind and get some sleep
Sunday - Run this town... and pending other stuff, hit McGrattans for a beverage.

I think I've nailed down a race plan but if it's too complicated/optimistic then I'm just going to stick the 4:00 pacers. As a 4:00 time equates to 5:41min/Km, I've done a +/- total at the end of each line as to how I should be at the stage of my plan. Thoughts/comments on it are welcome:
5:50min/Km up until Castleknock (end of 11Km) +99sec

5:30min/Km until re-entry to Phoenix Park (12-13Km) +77sec

Ease up on re-entry to Phoenix Park

5:30min/Km up until St Laurence’s drag/hill +44sec

6:00min/Km for St. Laurence’s drag/hill (end of 17) +63sec

5:30min/Km until Coombe +30sec

5:50min/Km until Crumlin Hospital +48sec

5:30min/Km until Clonskeagh/Ashtons -62sec

6:00min/Km until Heartbreak hill -5sec

Last 6Km… TBD/Try hang in there for Sub-4

Lastly, big thank you Mr. Guappa/ReeReeG/Huzzah. Your guidance, knowledge and patience is what has made the novices training program so enjoyable for me. Also, the flapjacks, they played a huge part. :pac:

I think Toenail Tuesday is from when the marathon was on a Monday, so I'd move cutting your toenails to today.

Singer · 21-10-2019 8:11am

Huzzah! wrote: »

I think Toenail Tuesday is from when the marathon was on a Monday, so I'd move cutting your toenails to today.

Today is “Manicure Monday”!

It doesn’t really matter if you get it done today or tomorrow, as long as it’s not done close to the marathon itself.

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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