DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Huzzah!

Doc76 wrote: »

Hi room for another? I don’t have a number yet but hoping to get one on July 1. Training anyway and signed up for the race series half in September.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
Have raced loads (including 26.2s along time ago) but PBs are a distant past! Just run/race for fun now. I’ve been running for 25 years.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? no
How much training do you currently do ? 4 jogs a week (18 miles thereabouts) but also strength train 2x per week and do 3 cardio classes a week (will definitely scale this back as training for marathon progresses if I get a spot)
What do you want to achieve? I’d love to finish under 5 hours (4:45ish?!) I want to feel good though throughout the race and injury free.
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? Realistically 4 days and plan to follow HH novice 1 which I have used successfully in the past.
What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? It’s been so long since I’ve run a marathon or any race longer than a 1/2 marathon I worry about the last 10k but hope properly training will make it work. Also hope I actually get a number when they reopen entries on July 1!
Why are you running this marathon? Just to experience a marathon again especially in Dublin as I’ve never done it.

Thanks for the welcome. I don’t usually track my runs in Strava (I use Runkeeper) but have just signed up for it.

You're very welcome, Doc. Fingers crossed you get a spot come 1 July. If you've some recent race times, it would be good to get an idea for your training paces but no worries if not. Just keep your runs super easy for now.

Doc76

Huzzah! wrote: »

You're very welcome, Doc. Fingers crossed you get a spot come 1 July. If you've some recent race times, it would be good to get an idea for your training paces but no worries if not. Just keep your runs super easy for now.

Thank you! I ran the women’s mini marathon at the start of June in 1:07:47, the Gaelforce Bray Cliff run in April in 1:13:37 (running in sand in Greystones and in rocks at the Bray seafront slowed me down significantly!) and the Rock N Roll half last August in 2:33:33... did not train for that one and took it very slow (and am slow already!)

passinginterest

Some great stuff in here recently. As I’ve mentioned on my training log, I took most of the week off last week. I’d pushed from a half marathon plan to a five mile plan and started into another half plan straight after some pleasing results in the 5 mile and a couple of 5k’s shortly afterwards. After giving it some thought and feeling a bit run down, I realized I was at risk of over doing thinks and burning out before the main marathon plan even started. Similar to what I did in my previous marathon attempt when I ran everything too hard and started missing lots of runs at the crucial part of the plan.

So I’m resetting this week and building again. Hoping the recovery week will pay off and I can be really consistent for the next 20 weeks without burning out and skipping important parts of the plan.

The nutrition stuff that’s been discussed recently is interesting. I tend to run fairly lightly fueled, partly due to tummy issues. I’ve used the hi-5 gels and find them ok, but find I can’t tolerate too many. On thing I’d advise anyone to avoid before a run is anything with dried cranberries, not something I’d have ever thought would be an issue, but it was something I discovered the hard way and apparently it’s a fairly common issue. I’m not great with dairy either, so it tends to be porridge made with water with maybe a dollop if peanut butter or Nutella and a banana on race days.

py

Cycling event out of the way so now sole focus is on running. Planning to do a few show 5Km during this week and then try a 10Km effort this weekend to get a fitness baseline. Also going the Docklands 5Km next week. Then it's Hal Higdon plan till October.

Huzzah!

py wrote: »

Cycling event out of the way so now sole focus is on running. Planning to do a few show 5Km during this week and then try a 10Km effort this weekend to get a fitness baseline. Also going the Docklands 5Km next week. Then it's Hal Higdon plan till October.

Congrats on the cycling event. Just a suggestion but you could keep the 10k at an easy effort and use the Docklands 5k as your fitness baseline?

py

Huzzah! wrote: »

Congrats on the cycling event. Just a suggestion but you could keep the 10k at an easy effort and use the Docklands 5k as your fitness baseline?

Yup, no real preference on it tbh.

Mr. Guappa

Huge news: Lidl have their running socks in this week (from Thursday). €3 a pair - stock up!

ReeReeG

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Huge news: Lidl have their running socks in this week (from Thursday). €3 a pair - stock up!

Fantastic news! I was only thinking last week I need a few new pairs

skyblue46

ReeReeG wrote: »

Fantastic news! I was only thinking last week I need a few new pairs

The quality of their last few offerings has been very mixed.

Ballybog

After reading about slowing down (so much good info here !), I have decided to give it a go this week, like properly slowing down.

I have been very haphazard on my runs in the past month, so need to get more disciplined before the plan starts and no better time than today

What's the best way to find out the pace for my runs - plan for this week is to do two 6km runs, fitness class tomorrow and a long run of 10km+ over the weekend?
Should all runs be at the same pace or should the shorter ones be a but faster ?

KSU

Ballybog wrote: »

Should all runs be at the same pace or should the shorter ones be a but faster ?

Overall running pace should always be on a sliding scale

The longer a run is, the slower pace wise it should be (this goes for intervals/tempos/ long runs etc)

Likewise the more you run a week the slower you should be running on easy days so you can prob run the easy shorter runs a little faster if you are running 3 days a week then can be on the faster end of easy ranges, of running 5 should be a little slower etc.

You will gain more from running consistently rather than running faster on particular days so best advice you will get is to run slow enough to allow you be consistent. For the majority of people this is slower than they think.

Mr. Guappa

Ballybog wrote: »

After reading about slowing down (so much good info here !), I have decided to give it a go this week, like properly slowing down.

I have been very haphazard on my runs in the past month, so need to get more disciplined before the plan starts and no better time than today

What's the best way to find out the pace for my runs - plan for this week is to do two 6km runs, fitness class tomorrow and a long run of 10km+ over the weekend?
Should all runs be at the same pace or should the shorter ones be a but faster ?

It's a good idea to start trying to get some consistency, well done. Based on your 10k time, the McMillan calculator would suggest 6:30-7:00 per km for your easy runs, and 6:30-7:15 for the long run. I'd lean towards the slower end of those ranges, and don't be afraid to go even slower.

Edit: Your HM time would indicate even slower paces, but as that was an extremely hilly route I've used the 10k time.

Mr. Guappa

Lombardo123 wrote: »

Nice PMP run in the sun this week, a welcome change of scenery.

Wouldn't be a fan of doing a full marathon in it!

I missed this yesterday! Nice one, enjoy the break. And fair play for bringing the runners with you.

kyomi

Some advice needed! I think I overdid it on my LSR (11 miles) on Sunday and I'm feeling a bit wiped out. I ran with a friend and, to avoid having to check my HR constantly (so we could chat!), we stuck to ~9.40 min miles, which I suppose is more like the kind of pace I do on my shorter easy runs. I probably should have been doing at least 10 min miles. Anyway, by the end I was struggling a bit and was wiped out for the rest of the day, which would be unusual for me (I'm fairly used to 11-mile runs at this stage).

As Monday is my rest day anyway, I thought I would be recovered by today so I went for my usual speed session this evening. I thought I felt fine today - I wasn't too tired - but as soon as I started to run I knew I was going to find it hard. I was much slower than usual in the reps and had to drop out on the last one. I just felt really unfit, like I had to nearly lie down after each rep, whereas usually I'm able to jog around between them.

So anyway, my plan for this week was to do 3 miles tomorrow, 8 on Thursday, rest on Friday, 4 on Saturday and 12 on Sunday, all at easy pace, for a total of 33. But I think I do need to cut it back a bit, so here's where I need the advice from someone more experienced!

What's the best way to pull back a bit without scuppering the training? Should I cut out a day (e.g. the 3 miles tomorrow)? Or maintain all the days but shorten the distance? Or maintain all the days and distance but just run extra slow?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts! It would be great to get a handle on what to do in situations like this before the actual training starts.

Mr. Guappa

kyomi wrote: »

Some advice needed! I think I overdid it on my LSR (11 miles) on Sunday and I'm feeling a bit wiped out. I ran with a friend and, to avoid having to check my HR constantly (so we could chat!), we stuck to ~9.40 min miles, which I suppose is more like the kind of pace I do on my shorter easy runs. I probably should have been doing at least 10 min miles. Anyway, by the end I was struggling a bit and was wiped out for the rest of the day, which would be unusual for me (I'm fairly used to 11-mile runs at this stage).

As Monday is my rest day anyway, I thought I would be recovered by today so I went for my usual speed session this evening. I thought I felt fine today - I wasn't too tired - but as soon as I started to run I knew I was going to find it hard. I was much slower than usual in the reps and had to drop out on the last one. I just felt really unfit, like I had to nearly lie down after each rep, whereas usually I'm able to jog around between them.

So anyway, my plan for this week was to do 3 miles tomorrow, 8 on Thursday, rest on Friday, 4 on Saturday and 12 on Sunday, all at easy pace, for a total of 33. But I think I do need to cut it back a bit, so here's where I need the advice from someone more experienced!

What's the best way to pull back a bit without scuppering the training? Should I cut out a day (e.g. the 3 miles tomorrow)? Or maintain all the days but shorten the distance? Or maintain all the days and distance but just run extra slow?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts! It would be great to get a handle on what to do in situations like this before the actual training starts.

I think what you're experiencing over the past couple of runs comes from what we talked about before... you've far too many hard days in your schedule. I'd much rather see you do one midweek session, the weekend long run, and everything else easy.

For the rest of this week, everything easy is a good call. I wouldn't worry about scuppering the training, listening to your body and knowing when it needs a break is an important skill to develop. If it were me, I'd give tomorrow's run a miss, try for maybe 5 miles on Thursday but being prepared to cut it short if it's not working. Then see how you feel come the weekend.

Coming back to your plan; given that you've a very good base built up, I'm going to suggest that you take a look at the boards graduates plans. These are typically recommended for people who have come through this thread and are looking for a step up, but as I say you have a good base, and these plans have enough sessions so you find it challenging. The plans are here (check out the beginners marathon tab) and the paces are based on this calculator. It's up to yourself of course, but either way, I'd highly recommend far less sessions and far more easy days than you've currently planned.

Ballybog

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

It's a good idea to start trying to get some consistency, well done. Based on your 10k time, the McMillan calculator would suggest 6:30-7:00 per km for your easy runs, and 6:30-7:15 for the long run. I'd lean towards the slower end of those ranges, and don't be afraid to go even slower.

Edit: Your HM time would indicate even slower paces, but as that was an extremely hilly route I've used the 10k time.

Fantastic, I couldn't get my head round the paces needed - will take this onboard now and slow down my runs to these times. 6.30 per KM is a nice easy pace, so will aim to do my runs at 6.30-7 min per km going forward.

Agreed, the half was on a brutal course - but I do love them Wicklow hills

Mr. Guappa

Ballybog wrote: »

Fantastic, I couldn't get my head round the paces needed - will take this onboard now and slow down my runs to these times. 6.30 per KM is a nice easy pace, so will aim to do my runs at 6.30-7 min per km going forward.

Agreed, the half was on a brutal course - but I do love them Wicklow hills

Nice one Ballybog, easy and often. As KSU mentioned above, consistency is where the improvements come from. So, as you run more often, and further, it's fine to slow it down even more if required.

A note to all novices, pay particular attention to anything KSU says... He is a fountain of knowledge when it comes to running.

Ballybog

One more question (for now) ... I carry a bit of extra weight, trying to shift it to make the running easier. I'd like to add a spinning session to the week to help things along, but would this be too much on top of the training ?
Probably being very idealistic here, once the miles start building up with the training, there is probably no time for anything else

Current plan:
Fitness class on Wed
Long run over the weekend
3 shorter runs during the week

Ok, looking at he above, there probably is no room for spinning until after the training block ?

Soulsun

is it important to stretch before going for a run or is it a myth?

Irishder

More advice needed. I have signed up for the waterford half on June 22nd. I was training well then i went on my holidays and only got out once for 5 miles found it very tough in the heat. I am thinking about pulling out of the half now as i dont think i have enough miles in the legs. My longest run to date is 9 miles and that was on the 19th May.

Also i am travelling next week mon - thurs for work so not too sure how much running I will get in.

Feeling really demotivated at the minute as i was going well and now feel I messed up by missing training.

I am thinking about going for a 7 mile run tonight and see how that feels. If it goes well i will try a 10 miler this weekend.

Next week then try do a few short runs whilst i'm away.

all advice appreciated,

Thanks

Mr. Guappa

Ballybog wrote: »

One more question (for now) ... I carry a bit of extra weight, trying to shift it to make the running easier. I'd like to add a spinning session to the week to help things along, but would this be too much on top of the training ?
Probably being very idealistic here, once the miles start building up with the training, there is probably no time for anything else

Current plan:
Fitness class on Wed
Long run over the weekend
3 shorter runs during the week

Ok, looking at he above, there probably is no room for spinning until after the training block ?

Are you going with the Hal Higdon plan so? I know before you mentioned finding it tricky to squeeze everything in so I'd agree with your assessment that adding the spin class now might be too much. Aside from the availability factor, there is the consideration that you will be ramping up the miles and hours spent running, so adding another new activity into the mix at the same time, could take it's toll. One of the big mantra's around here is to "keep the main thing, the main thing" - the main thing in this case being DCM.

At the same time, the plans do call for some cross-training, but you have that covered with your existing Wednesday fitness class. I'm all about incremental, sustainable improvements, so yeah, build up the running first, then when that has become routine (and hopefully you stick with it post-DCM!), add in the spin class.

Mr. Guappa

Soulsun wrote: »

is it important to stretch before going for a run or is it a myth?

We'd recommend dynamic stretching before a run, and static stretching after a run. Also, I hope everyone has s foam roller at this stage? I find it great for keeping the niggles at bay, and at preventing niggles turning into full blown injuries.

I find that anytime I slack off on the foam rolling and stretching that I soon notice the aches and niggles popping up. A couple of minutes stretching pre-run, maybe a bit extra after, and some foam rolling every night will help no end with recovery.

Mr. Guappa

Irishder wrote: »

More advice needed. I have signed up for the waterford half on June 22nd. I was training well then i went on my holidays and only got out once for 5 miles found it very tough in the heat. I am thinking about pulling out of the half now as i dont think i have enough miles in the legs. My longest run to date is 9 miles and that was on the 19th May.

Also i am travelling next week mon - thurs for work so not too sure how much running I will get in.

Feeling really demotivated at the minute as i was going well and now feel I messed up by missing training.

I am thinking about going for a 7 mile run tonight and see how that feels. If it goes well i will try a 10 miler this weekend.

Next week then try do a few short runs whilst i'm away.

all advice appreciated,

Thanks

Don't worry too much about the missed training, as you say training was going well and you've a nice steady base built up over the past few months, so you are well set to attack the DCM training, which is the main thing.

Would you be planning on racing the Half? Or just happy to treat it as a long run at an easy pace? Is there an option to drop down to the Quarter Marathon?

Irishder

Happy yo treat it as a long training run, i can drop down to the quarter but to be honest i wouldnt see that as much as a challange as i am doing that distance fairly regularly in training. Think i will do the 1/2 and see how i do.

skyblue46

Irishder wrote: »

Happy yo treat it as a long training run, i can drop down to the quarter but to be honest i wouldnt see that as much as a challange as i am doing that distance fairly regularly in training. Think i will do the 1/2 and see how i do.

Would the quarter not be a challenge if you raced it to do the best time you could as distinct from the pace you regularly do in training? It would also give you very up to date training paces. Apologies if you already have a recent race to calculate training paces from.

Irishder

Thanks i might do that. ill see how tonights and the weekends run goes and make a call then

Bananaleaf

I have a couple more questions if that is ok.

For cross training Friday I think I will cycle. Am looking into a bike on the bike to work scheme. Is there any guide as to how long or intense this cycle should/could be?

Also, would it be okay to do a cycle AND pilates on that day if I had the time?

Last question - I would like to drive out to PP to do some runs over the next few months. No real hills where I am so I was thinking of going out the days that call for hill sprints and doing a run in the park and the hill sprints somewhere there too. Only way I know how to do this is go out and drive around the park, measuring out a route with the odometer and hopefully don't get lost. Is there a better way to figure out routes, or are there marked/suggested routes on an information board around the park anywhere? Not familiar with the park at all sorry.

Thank you

Kellygirl

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I have a couple more questions if that is ok.

For cross training Friday I think I will cycle. Am looking into a bike on the bike to work scheme. Is there any guide as to how long or intense this cycle should/could be?

Also, would it be okay to do a cycle AND pilates on that day if I had the time?

Last question - I would like to drive out to PP to do some runs over the next few months. No real hills where I am so I was thinking of going out the days that call for hill sprints and doing a run in the park and the hill sprints somewhere there too. Only way I know how to do this is go out and drive around the park, measuring out a route with the odometer and hopefully don't get lost. Is there a better way to figure out routes, or are there marked/suggested routes on an information board around the park anywhere? Not familiar with the park at all sorry.

Thank you

I don’t know if it works on paths and trails in the PP but I regularly use Google Pedometer to calculate routes and distance before runs. You can save your routes so I often go back to check out routes of varying distances then.

coogy

I use Rungo app for mapping out all my runs. I know some route planners dont recognise secondary roads or let you wander off the beaten track so it's great for that.

Soulsun

When is the boards and HH plan commencing?
only back from injury