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    #32
    Glass fused light
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    skallywag wrote: »
    Glass fused light wrote: »
    If it is the person they can get all and any data on them under GDPR.

    I really wonder though can one get access to this particular information under GDPR?

    i.e. if I go through an interview process which I believe to be fair, and I do not think that I was discriminated against in any way, then is it really my right to get access to the interview notes which were taken, assuming a private body?

    I would not have thought so. I might be wrong of course.
    Thats the whole idea of GDPR. If the data is about you, you have the right to see it.

    You dont have to feel that you were treated unfairly. But a misinterpetation of a written note could leave the organisation in trouble.
    It was one of the reasons that the org put CVs in plastic to prevent marking eg your 50 and the job went to a 25 year old. Your education dates are both underlined so now you can argue age discrimination was a reason you did not get the job


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    #33
    Glass fused light
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    skallywag wrote: »
    Glass fused light wrote: »
    If it is the person they can get all and any data on them under GDPR.

    I really wonder though can one get access to this particular information under GDPR?

    i.e. if I go through an interview process which I believe to be fair, and I do not think that I was discriminated against in any way, then is it really my right to get access to the interview notes which were taken, assuming a private body?

    I would not have thought so. I might be wrong of course.
    Thats the whole idea of GDPR. If the data is about you, you have the right to see it.

    You dont have to feel that you were treated unfairly. But a misinterpetation of a written note could leave the organisation in trouble.
    It was one of the reasons that the org put CVs in plastic to prevent marking eg your 50 and the job went to a 25 year old. Your education dates are both underlined so now you can argue age discrimination was a reason you did not get the job


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    #34
    shauna365
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭shauna365


    anyone know how long the hSE take to get back after an interview??


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    #35
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    shauna365 wrote: »
    anyone know how long the hSE take to get back after an interview??

    You already asked this twice on this thread :confused::confused:


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    #36
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭skallywag


    I had not thought about GDPR in that light before, though I am no expert on the topic so I am certainly not saying it is not the case. I can imagine that it would create a headache though if everyone decided to exercise this right.

    Coming back to the topic of interview notes, this gets we wondering now if it is mandatory to record details in writing concerning unsuccessful applicants for positions in the private sector?

    If a record is simply made saying e.g. 'applicant rejected for not meeting the technical requirements', etc, is this sufficient? I have even seen situations in smaller companies where no written record would be kept at all, or perhaps just a simple excel with the names of the unsuccessful applicants.


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    #37
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,636 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    skallywag wrote: »
    I had not thought about GDPR in that light before, though I am no expert on the topic so I am certainly not saying it is not the case. I can imagine that it would create a headache though if everyone decided to exercise this right.

    Coming back to the topic of interview notes, this gets we wondering now if it is mandatory to record details in writing concerning unsuccessful applicants for positions in the private sector?
    It's not required to keep written records, no. However, that is also opening you up to potential claims of discrimination: say you hired a man over a woman, and the woman subsequently claims she was discriminated against on the basis of gender. How are you going to show that the man was hired because he demonstrated better ability in the interview if you have no records? Particularly if the woman may have better qualifications in that area.
    skallywag wrote: »
    If a record is simply made saying e.g. 'applicant rejected for not meeting the technical requirements', etc, is this sufficient? I have even seen situations in smaller companies where no written record would be kept at all ...
    It's sufficient if you're confident you can demonstrate what is recorded - say you reject someone on technical requirements because they don't have a particular cert, but the person you hire is less technically qualified (even though they have the cert). If the unsuccessful applicant can demonstrate they're more technically qualified, you're going to find it very hard to dispute that, because you didn't keep accurate records.

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    #38
    Glass fused light
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    The technical end of a application is a pre interview qualification. If you dont meet the minimum the org should not spend time/money meeting you. This is where HR should have a process for applications, normaly spliting the must haves (or you dont get an interview) with the nice to have and soft skill. Which is where HR would weigh the soft skills to be the deciding factor as these are subjective to the person. So it would be smarter to record a did not fit our culture or something equally fluffy.


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    #39
    shauna365
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭shauna365


    no one answered before so anyone know how long it takes hse to get back after an interview???


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    #40
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    shauna365 wrote: »
    no one answered before so anyone know how long it takes hse to get back after an interview???

    Set up a new thread and you might get more responses. This thread is about interview feedback so you're query will get lost in the mix of replies to that.


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    #41
    shauna365
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭shauna365


    how do you set up a new thread ? i only joined yesterday


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    #42
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    shauna365 wrote: »
    how do you set up a new thread ? i only joined yesterday

    Go into the "work problems" forum and click on the "new thread" button at the top right hand of the page.


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    #43
    shauna365
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭shauna365


    thanks.


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    #44
    rd1izb7lvpuksx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭rd1izb7lvpuksx


    Glass fused light wrote: »
    Thats the whole idea of GDPR. If the data is about you, you have the right to see it.

    That's not entirely true. Paper records are (in general) only covered by GDPR if they are stored in a structured filing system, so you don't (necessarily) have the right to perform a DSAR for notes taken in someone's notepad. However, those notes would still be required to be kept for a one year period in case in litigation.


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    #45
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Glass fused light wrote: »
    The technical end of a application is a pre interview qualification. If you dont meet the minimum the org should not spend time/money meeting you.

    It is not always that black and white though, perhaps best illustrated by way of example.

    Let us say just for the sake of argument that I am looking for someone with a Masters degree in Chemical Engineering and a minimum of 5 years work experience in a certain aspect of the field. CVs / applications will flow into HR, and they will indeed check to make sure that this minimum criteria is met before someone ends up in front of me for a technical assessment. It will still be the case though that many applicants will still fail on technical grounds, even considering the fact that we will have had a technical call with them beforehand in most cases. Before I have someone in the same room as me, and give them a chance to rationalize scenarios, sketch out diagrams, etc, then I really have no way of knowing if they will technically be able to fulfill the role.


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    #46
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭skallywag


    Allie Fierce Tap-dancer wrote: »
    That's not entirely true. Paper records are (in general) only covered by GDPR if they are stored in a structured filing system, so you don't (necessarily) have the right to perform a DSAR for notes taken in someone's notepad. However, those notes would still be required to be kept for a one year period in case in litigation.

    That is also an interesting point. We would certainly jot down notes etc. during an interview, nothing in any way formal, just a few keywords to serve as a reminder afterwards. Nobody has in mind though that these notes may need to be kept for any period of time, etc.

    I am surprised that such information is not spreading down better than it is, and especially considering GDPR is the buzzword of the moment which all HR departments (including our own) are very much aware of.


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    #47
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Allie Fierce Tap-dancer wrote: »
    That's not entirely true. Paper records are (in general) only covered by GDPR if they are stored in a structured filing system, so you don't (necessarily) have the right to perform a DSAR for notes taken in someone's notepad. However, those notes would still be required to be kept for a one year period in case in litigation.

    There is absolutely no requirement to keep notes as you describe above. In fact, you shouldn't keep notes on someone who didn't get the job.

    And you won't get out of your GDPR requirements by claiming that your filing system is sh1te. If you have data on someone, they are entitled to a copy of it if it identifies them in any way.

    Now, if the information was disposed of shortly after the interview, then there's nothing to give them under GDPR regulations as you are holding no data on them.


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    #48
    rd1izb7lvpuksx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭rd1izb7lvpuksx


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    There is absolutely no requirement to keep notes as you describe above. In fact, you shouldn't keep notes on someone who didn't get the job.

    Our legal advice is that if any notes are taken, they should be kept for a period of one year (based on advice from the DPC), as destruction of notes taken can be problematic in the event of a disgruntled failed candidate. The advice came with case studies where destroyed notes had weakened a defence against a discrimination claim.

    Whether you keep your notes or not is up to you - I've certainly never come across an HR department that would let you take them and then destroy them.
    BattleCorp wrote: »
    And you won't get out of your GDPR requirements by claiming that your filing system is sh1te. If you have data on someone, they are entitled to a copy of it if it identifies them in any way.

    Luckily, GDPR is a freely available regulation - you can read it yourself. From Article 2 - Material scope:
    This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data wholly or partly by automated means and to the processing other than by automated means of personal data which form part of a filing system or are intended to form part of a filing system.

    Where filing system is defined in Article 4 as:
    (6) 'filing system' means any structured set of personal data which are accessible according to specific criteria, whether centralised, decentralised or dispersed on a functional or geographical basis;

    Notes in a notebook that is not structured is not normally subject to GDPR.


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    #49
    Glass fused light
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    Allie Fierce Tap-dancer wrote: »
    Our legal advice is that if any notes are taken, they should be kept for a period of one year (based on advice from the DPC), as destruction of notes taken can be problematic in the event of a disgruntled failed candidate. The advice came with case studies where destroyed notes had weakened a defence against a discrimination claim.
    .....

    Notes in a notebook that is not structured is not normally subject to GDPR.

    "1. This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data wholly or partly by automated means and to the processing other than by automated means of personal data which form part of a filing system or are intended to form part of a filing system. "


    I think that it a weak arguement that the HR policy is to keep notes to aid litigation, and then attempt to argue that they were not intended to form a part of the file of the candidate as they were/will not actually be filed until they benefited the company.


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    #50
    LimeFruitGum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭LimeFruitGum


    OP, you were rejected within 2 HOURS of a HSE interview, and you are complaining about rescheduling a feedback call. Get down off your high horse. They’re not obligated to go into this level of feedback at all!
    Why on earth would they bother spending time writing up feedback for such a candidate. There’s literally no business justification for it from their perspective. Are you not able to take notes during a phone call?
    Seriously, just leave it. You did a really poor interview if you were rejected that quickly. Chalk it up and move on.

    I came third in a panel competition for a HSE management position recently, and all I got was a 1 page feedback form after a month.


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