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Changing from paying as a House to paying for a Room

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  • 08-05-2019 1:34pm
    #1
    sheepeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭


    At the moment, The full monthly rent for my apartment is paid to the landlord by myself once a month and the other housemates then transfer their monthly share to me in or around the same date.

    Due to the rent going up significantly lately and general discontent with the landlord because of it (along with other factors) I get a strong vibe that the other flatmates may delay paying their share, pay less than they owe, or in the worst case scenario move out and not pay at all leaving me holding the can.

    I plan to tell the landlord and the housemates that from now on we will pay our own share separately to his bank. Neither will be happy about this but its insurance for me against loosing and fighting for what amounts to a full paycheck.

    Is if there is anything that should stop me doing this ? Any potential issue that can arise ?

    I dont believe its written anywhere that the rent has to be paid in full by one Money transfer.


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    #2
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    sheepeasy wrote: »
    At the moment, The full monthly rent for my apartment is paid to the landlord by myself once a month and the other housemates then transfer their monthly share to me in or around the same date.

    Due to the rent going up significantly lately and general discontent with the landlord because of it (along with other factors) I get a strong vibe that the other flatmates may delay paying their share, pay less than they owe, or in the worst case scenario move out and not pay at all leaving me holding the can.

    I plan to tell the landlord and the housemates that from now on we will pay our own share separately to his bank. Neither will be happy about this but its insurance for me against loosing and fighting for what amounts to a full paycheck.

    Is if there is anything that should stop me doing this ? Any potential issue that can arise ?

    I dont believe its written anywhere that the rent has to be paid in full by one Money transfer.

    Whoever the lease is with is liable for the rent. If you all have separate leases then you pay the cost of your lease only. If you are the only person on the lease and you have sublet to others then you are liable if they don't pay.

    If you have separate leases then advise the landlord that going forward you will be discharging your rent and your rent only.


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    #3
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    By the sounds of things, you are the tenant and they are your licensees. If your name is on the lease then the LL is under no obligation to change it. You may have to terminate the tenancy to avoid paying the full amount, that has inherent risks if you want to stay there, the LL may insist that you leave if you terminate the lease.


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    #4
    sheepeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭sheepeasy


    Dav010 wrote: »
    By the sounds of things, you are the tenant and they are your licensees. If your name is on the lease then the LL is under no obligation to change it. You may have to terminate the tenancy to avoid paying the full amount, that has inherent risks if you want to stay there, the LL may insist that you leave if you terminate the lease.

    The lease is a very gray area. I am fairly confident I never signed a lease (nor anyone else I've lived with over the years)

    A lease is a full multi-page document that outlines the terms of the tenancy right ? Ive never even seen this in hard or soft copy, never mind signed it.

    The only thing I ever signed was a rent book that I have in the house and a confirmation signature when the house was registered with the PRTB. When I initially moved in, I payed the rent to another housemate and when he moved out I took over the Job. Nothing was ever agreed with the landlord officially but I would have told the landlord what was happening and asked for his bank details via email.

    As I said, the landlord is an easy going old man and is happy to have us as happy tenants and vice versa.

    Surely if one housemate refuses to pay the rent and refuses to vacate for months on end, then the landlord has to sort it and the person actually transferring the money is not the person getting done out of thousands !


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    #5
    km991148
    Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    Sounds like it should be ok to pay separately?

    Curious tho - What % is significantly anyway?


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    #6
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    A lease can be verbal it doesnt have to be multi page document as you put it.

    The best indicator is the RTB registration - check that, get a copy or ask the RTB. If you were all registered as tenants on the same date this would indicate you are all parties to the one lease agreement and so are all jointly and severally liable for the rent of the property not just your own portion. A single RTB registration with you all named as tenants would indicate this. This would be the norm.

    Unless you rented your rooms seperately from the landlord at different times. Have people moved out and been replaced over the years?


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    #7
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Have your housemates pay you before you pay the landlord, if they're genuine then they won't have an issue. If they aren't, then you'll find out before you pay their rent.


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    #8
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    +1

    OP, don't assume that paying individually will absolve you of any responsibility for any outstanding rent. Particularly if any of the housemates move out leaving you behind.

    If I were the landlord, I'd be telling you to sort it out amongst yourselves if the house was originally let as one.


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    #9
    Tomw86
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭Tomw86


    amcalester wrote: »
    Have your housemates pay you before you pay the landlord, if they're genuine then they won't have an issue. If they aren't, then you'll find out before you pay their rent.

    This - if one of them leaves you short, then you do the same to the landlord and notify him of which tenant has not paid.


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    #10
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    To which any sensible landlord will answer, here's your collective arrears notice. Sort it out amongst yourselves.


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    #11
    Tomw86
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭Tomw86


    Graham wrote: »
    To which any sensible landlord will answer, here's your collective arrears notice. Sort it out amongst yourselves.

    To which you reply that you will forward that on to the relevant party.

    This person will not be held liable in any way for a rent shortfall.


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    #12
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Yeah, that's not how most entire-property tenancy agreements work.

    E.g. rent for house = €1500. If you pay €1100 then you're in arrears.

    I certainly wouldn't expect a landlord to entertain a request to switch from a full-rental to pay-per-room.


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    #13
    sheepeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭sheepeasy


    Tomw86 wrote: »
    This - if one of them leaves you short, then you do the same to the landlord and notify him of which tenant has not paid.

    I intend to do this from now on. I've been a bit casual about it up to now. But from what others have posted, it may not be a solution depending on who is liable for the rent
    Graham wrote: »
    +1

    OP, don't assume that paying individually will absolve you of any responsibility for any outstanding rent. Particularly if any of the housemates move out leaving you behind.

    If I were the landlord, I'd be telling you to sort it out amongst yourselves if the house was originally let as one.

    I have no idea how the house was originally let. I have had multiple roommates coming and going over the years. Never a lease, only ever verbal rent agreements. The issue is if we can't sort it out amongst ourselves, then whats the next official step?
    Baby01032012 wrote: »
    A lease can be verbal it doesnt have to be multi page document as you put it.

    The best indicator is the RTB registration - check that, get a copy or ask the RTB. If you were all registered as tenants on the same date this would indicate you are all parties to the one lease agreement and so are all jointly and severally liable for the rent of the property not just your own portion. A single RTB registration with you all named as tenants would indicate this. This would be the norm.

    Unless you rented your rooms separately from the landlord at different times. Have people moved out and been replaced over the years?

    I just checked with the PRTB and the house is not currently registered. Which is unusual, as I'm sure we got letters about it recently.. ill have to double check


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    #14
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    sheepeasy wrote: »
    I have no idea how the house was originally let. I have had multiple roommates coming and going over the years. Never a lease, only ever verbal rent agreements. The issue is if we can't sort it out amongst ourselves, then whats the next official step?

    Have a conversation with the landlord and hope, or give landlord the appropriate notice.
    sheepeasy wrote: »
    I just checked with the PRTB and the house is not currently registered. Which is unusual, as I'm sure we got letters about it recently.. ill have to double check
    Might not be showing up on the register yet, that's no unheard of.


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    #15
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,498 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Currently the house is rented in full, not by room.

    The tenants cannot dictate that the landlord change the way he rents the property.

    If they try and force it, its probably grounds for eviction.

    Even if the landlord was agreeable to renting the property by room, its likely he would increase the rent even further to cover the hassle of managing multiple tenants like this.


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    #16
    sheepeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭sheepeasy


    Graham wrote: »
    Yeah, that's not how most entire-property tenancy agreements work.

    E.g. rent for house = €1500. If you pay €1100 then you're in arrears.

    I certainly wouldn't expect a landlord to entertain a request to switch from a full-rental to pay-per-room.
    certainly wouldn't expect a landlord to entertain a request to switch from a full-rental to pay-per-room.

    I dont intend to make this a permanent change, just long enough to ensure I dont get taken advantage of.

    If one housemate refuses to pay rent and/or runs off then the deposit should cover his month and the next month the landlord gets the full rent from a new tenant.


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    #17
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    sheepeasy wrote: »
    I dont intend to make this a permanent change, just long enough to ensure I dont get taken advantage of.

    If one housemate refuses to pay rent and/or runs off then the deposit should cover his month and the next month the landlord gets the full rent from a new tenant.

    So you're hoping the landlord will entertain taking on the responsibility on behalf of you and your housmates.

    If you've been good tenants and you're paying market rent, you might be lucky.


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    #18
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,498 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    sheepeasy wrote: »

    If one housemate refuses to pay rent and/or runs off then the deposit should cover his month and the next month the landlord gets the full rent from a new tenant.

    And who is responsible for finding a new tenant?
    Who is responsible for paying if no new tenant is found? The landlord will still expect the full payment.


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    #19
    sheepeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭sheepeasy


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    Currently the house is rented in full, not by room.,
    And who is responsible for finding a new tenant?
    Who is responsible for paying if no new tenant is found? The landlord will still expect the full payment.
    The tenants cannot dictate that the landlord change the way he rents the property.

    Because there is no lease, none of this has ever been spelled out.

    We simply dont know if we are paying for the house or for the room. (I am paying for the house for the sake of simplicity but I was never under the impression this was binding)

    We are good tenants and we are paying market rent (very expensive). (This is the rogue housemates issue)

    Its likely that the landlord will still get his Monthly total, but in 3 transactions. Not one.

    Ok assuming you are fully correct and If the rogue housemate decides not to pay, what can i do ?


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    #20
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    sheepeasy wrote: »
    Ok assuming you are fully correct and If the rogue housemate decides not to pay, what can i do ?

    Collectively you can decide to cover the shortfall, hope the landlord will accept the shortfall, or expect to receive a 14 day warning notice.


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    #21
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    If you never agreed to be liable for your housemates share of the rent then i can't imagine how you could possibly be held to it. It would be up to the landlord to prove that you all agreed to be responsible for the whole house and not just your own rent and without a lease or anything signed by the tenants I can't imagine how they would achieve that. It's possible they could make the case that you implicitly agreed when you agreed to pass on the other tenants rent, but that's a really weak argument.

    You mentioned rent books, is there just one or does each tenant have their own?


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    #22
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    A long established pattern of a single rent payment for the entire property would suggest to me the house is rented as a single entity.

    A single RTB registration would suggest likewise.

    OP, if you have a good relationship with your landlord it might be worthwhile having a conversation with them. Nobody here can do anything but guess what the landlord might consider the position to be.


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    #23
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    Graham wrote: »
    A long established pattern of a single rent payment for the entire property would suggest to me the house is rented as a single entity.

    A single RTB registration would suggest likewise.

    OP, if you have a good relationship with your landlord it might be worthwhile having a conversation with them. Nobody here can do anything but guess what the landlord might consider the position to be.

    The RTB registration is handled by the landlord and doesn't need the tenant to sign anything, unless things have changed dramatically in recent years.

    Properties where the tenants in house shares pay directly to the LL are still very common, especially in college towns/areas.

    If the OP never actually agreed to be held liable for the rent of their housemates then how can they possibly be held accountable for it?


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    #24
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Op. How did the situation arise where you alone pay the LL?

    If the rent is short, for whatever reason, you will be given notice of arrears and evicted.


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    #25
    sheepeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭sheepeasy


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Op. How did the situation arise where you alone pay the LL?

    If the rent is short, for whatever reason, you will be given notice of arrears and evicted.

    When I moved into the house, I payed one person my share of the rent and when that person moved out, I decided to take his role.

    I told the landlord I would pay the rent and asked for his Bank Details.

    I may also mention that the reason the Rogue housemate wants to pay less rent is because he is planning to move out in December anyway. But it looks like I have to take the hit for him not wanting to pay or else all of us get evicted


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    #26
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Sheepeasy
    No special agreement of responsibility is needed as you have been responsible. All rent has to be paid regardless of internal squabbles. It is not the responsibility of the landlord. Signing the rent book is a contract too.
    You are all jointly responsible for the rent to be paid in full. You collectively chose to live with each other and share responsibility.


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    #27
    housetypeb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    sheepeasy wrote: »

    I told the landlord I would pay the rent and asked for his Bank Details.

    You seem have a verbal lease with the landlord so you're responsible for the full rent for the house,how you collect it from the others shouldn't concern him.

    On the other hand,depending on your agreement with the landlord,that could make the others in the house, that pay rent through you, licencees.
    Licencees have less rights than tenants which would give you the upper hand in dealing with your unruly flatmate.


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    #28
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    You are all jointly and severally liable for the rent.
    If one housemate decides to be an arsehole and not pay his/her share- it is up to the others to make up the difference.
    You do not get to pay a reduced amount to the landlord (unless its by express agreement with the landlord).

    If your housemate does not pay their share- its up to the other housemates to sort it- its nothing to do with the landlord...........


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    #29
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,523 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    sheepeasy wrote: »
    When I moved into the house, I payed one person my share of the rent and when that person moved out, I decided to take his role.

    I told the landlord I would pay the rent and asked for his Bank Details.

    I may also mention that the reason the Rogue housemate wants to pay less rent is because he is planning to move out in December anyway. But it looks like I have to take the hit for him not wanting to pay or else all of us get evicted

    He may be your licencee, you can evict him today


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