VW ID.3

KCross

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's what I was thinking, not charging to 100% isn't something the first owner needs to worry about if there only keeping it a couple of years. It's more about protecting Tesla/VW from battery warranty claims.

Its also to protect your resale value. In 3-5 years time when you are selling it on the prospective buyer might shun your car over another if they see the range has dropped... which is what happens with degradation.

How much it will drop is dependent on how VW have packaged this battery and how much buffer they have built in etc.... ultimately no one will know until a few years have passed and we see how the batteries are doing. Its not a foregone conclusion that VW will get it right, but hopefully since the packs are big enough that it wont matter much.

liamog

VW have been making EVs since 2013, so I think they know what they are doing.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

VW have been making EVs since 2013, so I think they know what they are doing.

Nissan have been making them since 2009 and have battery issues. Tesla have been making them just as long as well and have some battery issues in some packs..... whats your point liam?.... that past experience is a marker for future reliability?.... i think not.... particularly on a component that they dont make themselves.

Dont put all your faith in them just becuase they are a big OEM.

the_amazing_raisin

KCross wrote: »

Its also to protect your resale value. In 3-5 years time when you are selling it on the prospective buyer might shun your car over another if they see the range has dropped... which is what happens with degradation.

How much it will drop is dependent on how VW have packaged this battery and how much buffer they have built in etc.... ultimately no one will know until a few years have passed and we see how the batteries are doing. Its not a foregone conclusion that VW will get it right, but hopefully since the packs are big enough that it wont matter much.

Assuming the buyer knows how to check for battery degradation. I suspect there's going to be a lot of people getting a quick education in the next few years as more 2nd hand EVs come on the market.


Hopefully someone will update the buyers guides to reflect this

jspuds

Was only charging to 80% until I watched this and makes me think charging up to 100% maybe once a month is a good idea?
https://youtu.be/QRPze4f0gsQ

eagerv

I pay very little attention to these so called tests. When Bjorn gets one it will give a better idea of real world efficiency, but hopefully will have my own before that..:)


When I took a one hour test drive in my present ICE I think IIRC that according to the computer my consumption was about 9L/100km. However my real world fill to fill over 3 years is about 5.6L/100.


Any car depends very much how it's driven and on what type of roads and a quick test certainly isn't much indication of a cars potential.

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Nissan have been making them since 2009 and have battery issues. Tesla have been making them just as long as well and have some battery issues in some packs..... whats your point liam?.... that past experience is a marker for future reliability?.... i think not.... particularly on a component that they dont make themselves.

Dont put all your faith in them just becuase they are a big OEM.

When you apply past engineering knowledge to a problem, I expect you to learn from it. VW did the right thing with the top and bottom buffers on the e-Up! and e-Golf and they don't suffer from large degradation issues. From the ID.3 we can see they are applying the same buffer policy. They are also implementing active cooling. It would be relatively unusual to take what you have learnt, throw out the results, and fail to implement the measures you did in previous models.

Nissan have always had a degradation problem and do not appear to have implemented mitigation measures in any of the Leaf models.

the_amazing_raisin

Hi all, I'm trying to purchase the ID Charger for my mum who's getting the ID.3 1st Plus.

I think she gets the 1st movers offer of €1000 off the charger purchase and installation. Any idea how to claim this?

Do I do it as part of buying the charger or later through VW?

eagerv

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Hi all, I'm trying to purchase the ID Charger for my mum who's getting the ID.3 1st Plus.

I think she gets the 1st movers offer of €1000 off the charger purchase and installation. Any idea how to claim this?

Do I do it as part of buying the charger or later through VW?

Have you talked to your dealer about this?


When I dropped in yesterday one of the things they asked me was would I be requiring a charge point. (Already have one).

the_amazing_raisin

eagerv wrote: »

Have you talked to your dealer about this?


When I dropped in yesterday one of the things they asked me was would I be requiring a charge point. (Already have one).

Don't think she has, just applied for the charger grant for her and we'll be ordering the charger when the letter of offer comes through


Dealer is a bit clueless, seems to be struggling with all these new offers :rolleyes:

slave1

The other aspect of charging to 100% is your efficiency, it will be less efficient as your car will not be taking advantage of regeneration braking until the SOC drops to whatever BMS the particular car requires before it allows this power to go back to the battery....
Anecdotally Tesla has massive regen capture so Musk not a fan of charging to 100% from an efficiency perspective...

KCross

liamog wrote: »

When you apply past engineering knowledge to a problem, I expect you to learn from it.

Of course. That doesnt mean it always happens. I've had alot of VAG cars over the years and some were a disaster. By your statement you are saying cars will always be better as they move forward. Thats simply not the case.

Your statement was a bit matter of fact to the point of saying VW can do no wrong. i.e. It will be perfect because they have 7 years of EV experience.... 7 years of EV experience is nothing really in a new tech space that is changing "quickly".

By VW's own admission they are struggling with software as well and are hiring lots of software engineers and trying to master that part of the EV experience. VW are still in learning mode.

We dont know until this battery pack hits the road and has a few years under its belt. Thats all Im saying. If you have 100% faith in VW then I think that puts you in fanboy territory.

liamog wrote: »

Nissan have always had a degradation problem and do not appear to have implemented mitigation measures in any of the Leaf models.

They did improve the pack from 2013 on so your engineering expectations applies to Nissan too just that they didnt go as far as you'd like them to have. The point is that big OEM's make mistakes all the time. One good car doesnt mean all subsequent cars will match that.

Cyrus

I only need to charge the etron once a week but it’s to 100 percent , Audi have buffers on the battery and I’ll only have it 2-3 years max and the range is short enough that I’m ok with my charging pattern.

liamog

KCross wrote: »

They did improve the pack from 2013 on so your engineering expectations applies to Nissan too just that they didnt go as far as you'd like them to have. The point is that big OEM's make mistakes all the time. One good car doesnt mean all subsequent cars will match that.

I put the 2013 improvements down to the work done be AESC (joint Nissan/NEC) on the cells, rather than automotive engineers integrating the pack into the car. I get what you are saying, but VW do have experience with EVs, so it's not like this is their first production model. I don't think any manufacturer has made a retrograde step when it comes to battery degradation, so it's fair to point out that as VW will probably be able to manage it.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

... as VW will probably be able to manage it.

I'd agree, to the point that I may actually put my money on them!

eagerv

A video from "Transport Evolved" today:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i2h3B0QAv8

arch_stanton

eagerv wrote: »

A video from "Transport Evolved" today:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i2h3B0QAv8

I made it about 30 seconds into the sneering tone before giving up. I assume it's just rehashing old stories and stock footage.

My dealer was in touch and reflected more or less what others have said. Volkswagen are recalculating the price to reflect the VAT change and once confirmed he'll be able to apply for the grants. Hopefully we get more videos of train and truckloads of cars shipping out soon.

JohnC.

How long does it take to calculate a different VAT rate on a small range of cars?

the_amazing_raisin

JohnC. wrote: »

How long does it take to calculate a different VAT rate on a small range of cars?

Given they should already know the cost of the car and all accessories and services before VAT, about 5 seconds

unkel

Silent Running wrote: »

I hear this a lot on here. Is it a Tesla thing?

Yes. A bit. Tesla allows you to use more of the gross capacity of the battery as usable than most other manufacturers. So it is a tiny bit less of a non-issue, the charging to 100% and down to 0% (as visible to the user, these are not the real percentages)

If you want your grandchildren to still drive your car with its original battery, long after you're dead, then yeah, keep the battery between 25% and 75% and don't let it go hot or cold.

For everyone else, just charge as you need and don't worry about the battery.

unkel

arch_stanton wrote: »

I made it about 30 seconds into the sneering tone before giving up.

I can understand why you gave up, she did start with a bit of a sneering tone to match the sneering title of the video: "Why Volkswagen Is Making Itself A Laughing Stock With Its ID Electric Vehicles"

I've just watched the video though and I can't fault it. Which doesn't surprise me as Nikki is very well informed and fair and unbiased in her videos. I'd urge you to re-watch it with an open mind.

liamog

The talk of delays were always based on rumours in the first place. The car was publicly indicated as available in Summer 2020, first deliveries look they will be made available in September. Given the global pandemic, that's a somewhat expected delay.
Many of the manager magazine complaints were based on VW's approach of build the cars and software in parallel, an approach that should be familiar to anybody with knowledge of modern consumer hardware.
Games consoles and Mobile phones almost always come with a day 1 update.

The software gaps are due to Android Auto, Apple CarPlay, the Augmented part of the HUD, and the ability to apply over the air updates, not ideal, but far from the sky is falling attitude than many report.
As mentioned in the last couple of pages, VW have shot themselves in the foot with the weight limit and the bigger battery.

Johnfred

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Given they should already know the cost of the car and all accessories and services before VAT, about 5 seconds

Spoke to my dealer and they said VW will up the prices and the VAT reduction might be only €200-€300. We’ll have to wait and see!

liamog

Johnfred wrote: »

Spoke to my dealer and they said VW will up the prices and the VAT reduction might be only €200-€300. We’ll have to wait and see!

Had the dealer given you a price before? I can't imagine VW will increase the price, but I can see the dealers manipulating the delivery fee. The aim is to get money back into the local economy, far better for it to end up in the dealers hands that VW.

Thierry12

unkel wrote: »

I can understand why you gave up, she did start with a bit of a sneering tone to match the sneering title of the video: "Why Volkswagen Is Making Itself A Laughing Stock With Its ID Electric Vehicles"

I've just watched the video though and I can't fault it. Which doesn't surprise me as Nikki is very well informed and fair and unbiased in her videos. I'd urge you to re-watch it with an open mind.

Ahhh Unkel

It's biased rubbish

Tesla has all those issues and more, never hear Nikki on about that

I hate VW as much anyone, but software issues etc are minor things, ID3 is going to be huge

It has 4 wheels, a big battery and costs less than €35,000

Tesla for all the talk over the years, haven't come close to that

unkel

Thierry12 wrote: »

Ahhh Unkel

It's biased rubbish

Tesla has all those issues and more, never hear Nikki on about that

You obviously don't watch her channel. Give me one point in the above video that is untrue and plainly biased rubbish.

Mr Q

unkel wrote: »

You obviously don't watch her channel. Give me one point in the above video that is untrue and plainly biased rubbish.

Like when she talks about a 54kWh battery or states the 1st doesn't have dual zone climate control?

Or that they wont be delivered until December. BS

liamog

unkel wrote: »

You obviously don't watch her channel. Give me one point in the above video that is untrue and plainly biased rubbish.

I don't think she's biased, but she is parroting alot of the same information that's being pushed by the Tesla invested press. The car was due to go on sale at the end of the Euro's any other date was just speculation and rumours.

unkel

Mr Q wrote: »

Like when she talks about a 54kWh battery

She correctly mentions 45kWh, 58kWh and 77kWh as the three battery pack options. Later she mentioned 54kWh, not sure why, perhaps she was referring to the available capacity of the 58kWh pack or maybe it was just a verbal typo and she meant the 45kWh.

Mr Q wrote: »

or states the 1st doesn't have dual zone climate control?

She said:

"VW confirmed back in January to Chris from the Battery Life YT channel that the ID.3.....wouldn't get the dual zone....." when it was launched but that these features would later be added via a software update

A bit of research shows this was widely reported at the time. Here is the video all these publications refer to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMIwQ1uwMGI

So hardly her own claim

Mr Q wrote: »

Or that they wont be delivered until December. BS

She said:

"while I haven't been able to corroborate the latest rumours that it's now gonna be pushed back to December this year, I frankly wouldn't be surprised if the planned September launch suffers some further setback"

Again she is not claiming they won't be delivered until December

jonnythefox

unkel wrote: »

She correctly mentions 45kWh, 58kWh and 77kWh as the three battery pack options. Later she clearly misspoke (like a verbal typo ) about the first option and indeed called it the 54kWh



She said:

"VW confirmed back in January to Chris from the Battery Life YT channel that the ID.3.....wouldn't get the dual zone....." when it was launched but that these features would later be added via a software update

A bit of research shows this was widely reported at the time. Here is the video all these publications refer to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMIwQ1uwMGI

So hardly her own claim



She said:

"while I haven't been able to corroborate the latest rumours that it's now gonna be pushed back to December this year, I frankly wouldn't be surprised if the planned September launch suffers some further setback"

Again she is not claiming they won't be delivered until December

Who is suggesting a possible delay until December? Where did she get this infi/rumour.