VW ID.3

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Just bear in mind that DC charging is a little less healthier for the overall health of your battery.

If AC charging is available, and you have the time to leave the car AC charging for a few hours, I'd always choose this over DC charging, but I'm planning on keeping my EV for 10+ years, and want the minimum amount of battery degradation as possible..... More DC charging over the life of an EV battery will degrade it faster.

Did that not get disproved for cars with active cooling of the battery?

redcup342

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Did that not get disproved for cars with active cooling of the battery?

Even with active cooling.

It's more to do with end user behavior than the charging method itself.

Generally people are going in to a DC Charger with a low SOC to get the maximum amount of kWh in the minimum amount of time.

Deep discharges are what reduces the life of the battery.

Someone that plugs in daily and doesn't really go below 50 percent for long periods of time is going to have a longer battery life than someone that is sitting below 50 and rolling into a Rapid charger with 5-10% SOC and charging up to 80-85 or even 100%

liamog

redcup342 wrote: »

Someone that plugs in daily and doesn't really go below 50 percent for long periods of time is going to have a longer battery life than someone that is sitting below 50 and rolling into a Rapid charger with 5-10% SOC and charging up to 80-85 or even 100%

It's more complicated than that, if you want to maximise your battery life it's better to maintain an average state of charge at 50%. I.E. 60% to 40% will result in more cycles than 50% to 30%.

But the important thing to note, the chemistry in current lithium ion batteries is rated for around 1000 cycles with a 100% depth of discharge. Your car has built in buffer at the top and bottom, so your actual depth of discharge is closer to 90%, which should give around 1250 cycles. A cycle is approx the range of the car when full. So if the ID.3 1st has a real world range of 340km, then the expected life of the battery should be around 425,000km. This means that your unlikely to see any degradation in range until around the 200,00km mark. It's basically not worth bothering about.

September1

liamog wrote: »

This means that your unlikely to see any degradation in range until around the 200,00km mark. It's basically not worth bothering about.

What about age related degradation? Is it affected by SOC levels?

redcup342

liamog wrote: »

It's more complicated than that, if you want to maximise your battery life it's better to maintain an average state of charge at 50%. I.E. 60% to 40% will result in more cycles than 50% to 30%.

But the important thing to note, the chemistry in current lithium ion batteries is rated for around 1000 cycles with a 100% depth of discharge. Your car has built in buffer at the top and bottom, so your actual depth of discharge is closer to 90%, which should give around 1250 cycles. A cycle is approx the range of the car when full. So if the ID.3 1st has a real world range of 340km, then the expected life of the battery should be around 425,000km. This means that your unlikely to see any degradation in range until around the 200,00km mark. It's basically not worth bothering about.

The question was if DC Charging causes extra wear or not, merely pointing out that the process itself does not, just the general behavior of the user when they rely purely on DC Charging can do.

They aren't going to go to a DC Charger every day to keep the battery between 50-80%

Nor are many people going to rapid charge at the end of their journey (when it makes sense as leaving the car overnight with a low SOC and trying to rapid charge the next day would be very slow)

Best option for long battery life is to have the car plugged in as much as possible when it's stationary keep in that 50-80% area.

Zenith74

September1 wrote: »

What about age related degradation? Is it affected by SOC levels?

SOC degradation already has a time component in there, it's not about a momentary burst up to 100% that causes an issue, it's about sustained high levels of charge over long periods of time.

When we talk about age related degradation we're talking about the fact that regardless of the whether you've caused extra damage to your battery by holding it at a high state of charge for long period of time or not, batteries degrade a small amount over time. So a 5/6/7 year old battery will have some age related degradation.

liamog

redcup342 wrote: »

Best option for long battery life is to have the car plugged in as much as possible when it's stationary keep in that 50-80% area.

Do not follow this advice, it is not the best way to keep a lithium ion battery healthy. The optimum rest state for a lithium ion battery is 40%.
If you keep the car always plugged in, then you are going to spend a lot more time at higher states of charge.

If you are going to attempt to baby the battery, your only going to start seeing a payoff after very high mileages anyway, it's just not worth the effort that you are recommending.

redcup342

liamog wrote: »

Do not follow this advice, it is not the best way to keep a lithium ion battery healthy. The optimum rest state for a lithium ion battery is 40%.
If you keep the car always plugged in, then you are going to spend a lot more time at higher states of charge.

If you are going to attempt to baby the battery, your only going to start seeing a payoff after very high mileages anyway, it's just not worth the effort that you are recommending.

There's no effort, for Tesla at least you manage the target charge in the app. If I'm going on a long drive I'll set it off charging up to 95% to match up with when I'm leaving, but i'll set the target SOC to match my plans.

Especially handy in very cold winter, if you can even plug into a 13 amp plug socket the action charging will keep the battery warm so you can rapid charge at a much fast rate later.

Have you ever left your EV overnight then tried to Rapid charge it next morning after a cold night ? It's pretty slow :pac:

liamog

redcup342 wrote: »

There's no effort, for Tesla at least you manage the target charge in the app. If I'm going on a long drive I'll set it off charging up to 95% to match up with when I'm leaving, but i'll set the target SOC to match my plans.

Especially handy in very cold winter, if you can even plug into a 13 amp plug socket the action charging will keep the battery warm so you can rapid charge at a much fast rate later.

Have you ever left your EV overnight then tried to Rapid charge it next morning after a cold night ? It's pretty slow :pac:

This is the VW ID.3 thread, VW use battery buffers at both the top and the bottom of the battery to prevent users experiencing degradation of the battery. It's a different approach to Tesla, but it's very common amongst all the other EV manufacturers. The BMS protects the user and prevents you from going to such a high state of charge.

I don't think we have info on cold charging the ID.3 yet, so not sure as to it's behaviour, my former e-Up! and our Ioniq only see a marginal if any reduction in charging speed when cold especially when you don't sit in the car with the heating on. Not sure what the Mini does yet.

Rusky rusky

slave1 wrote: »

No confusion, DC charging is fast, AC is "slow".
The 22kW charge points are AC, therefore "slow" and there is no overstay fee currently on AC chargers.

Can't see there ever be a need for an overstay fee on the AC chargers as they are basically spider homes since fees were introduced...

There no overstay fee from the esb side but there’s one on we charge app.

Rusky rusky

rocketspocket wrote: »

There was talk on this thread about a week back about installing dashcams onto the ID.3 - anyone completed one? If so, How did you run the cables and was it easy? What cable lengths did you need?

I run both front and back camera cables through the upper door seals (main camera on the driver side as the 12v is on this side in the boot). Standard lengths of the 12v power cable (4m) and back camera cable (6m) is enough. I had to pull the plastic ceiling cover near the boot to hide the excess cable. Back camera works ok even with this massive overhanging spoiler.

eagerv

Rusky rusky wrote: »

I run both front and back camera cables through the upper door seals (main camera on the driver side as the 12v is on this side in the boot). Standard lengths of the 12v power cable (4m) and back camera cable (6m) is enough. I had to pull the plastic ceiling cover near the boot to hide the excess cable. Back camera works ok even with this massive overhanging spoiler.

Interested in fitting a camera, which model did you go for?

Rusky rusky

eagerv wrote: »

Interested in fitting a camera, which model did you go for?

Nextbase 522gw with a rear view camera.

eagerv

Rusky rusky wrote: »

Nextbase 522gw with a rear view camera.

Thanks for that, they seem to be a good system.
Did you wire it directly or use USB?

rx8

eagerv wrote: »

Thanks for that, they seem to be a good system.
Did you wire it directly or use USB?

I'm using one too, I think Rusky did the same as me and used the 12v socket in the boot.

heron_joe

Rusky rusky wrote: »

Nextbase 522gw with a rear view camera.

I was looking at this model for my previous car but didn’t go through with it. Would you mind sharing pics to see how they appear in ID.3?

redcup342

liamog wrote: »

This is the VW ID.3 thread, VW use battery buffers at both the top and the bottom of the battery to prevent users experiencing degradation of the battery. It's a different approach to Tesla, but it's very common amongst all the other EV manufacturers. The BMS protects the user and prevents you from going to such a high state of charge.

I don't think we have info on cold charging the ID.3 yet, so not sure as to it's behaviour, my former e-Up! and our Ioniq only see a marginal if any reduction in charging speed when cold especially when you don't sit in the car with the heating on. Not sure what the Mini does yet.

Definitely more awkward alright, I hope VW Improve it in the future.
Easy to manage though by setting your charging schedule.

Mr Q

Do the Plus models have speakers in the rear doors or will the Max only get these?

drunkmonkey

Any idea why charging is so slow for me at Ionity, was at the same charger point last week and it was way quicker

drunkmonkey

Mr Q wrote: »

Do the Plus models have speakers in the rear doors or will the Max only get these?

Only max there's chaps trying to figure out how to to add them on the 1st movers forum. They should have been standard considering the cost of the car, unnecessary penny pinching.

redcup342

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Any idea why charging is so slow for me at Ionity, was at the same charger point last week and it was way quicker

Battery is cold ? How long were you driving before you reached the Charging point ?

Battery needs to be around 25 degrees to charge at full speed.

I was out at the Hilden Supercharger on Saturday and there was an ID3 First with the same behavior, was charging at around 28 kWh on a Hypercharger (Fastned) on around 40% SOC.

If you drive for around an hour before reaching the charger should be good then.

Nice Charging location as well

liamog

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Any idea why charging is so slow for me at Ionity, was at the same charger point last week and it was way quicker

Which charger is it, some of the Irish Ionity chargers are known to play up and offer reduced charge rate.

redcup342 wrote: »

Definitely more awkward alright, I hope VW Improve it in the future.
Easy to manage though by setting your charging schedule.

Why would they improve it, it's already a better approach than Tesla. No need to worry about a high state of charge or degradation because the buffer is already built in to the batter. It's far more friendly to the normal consumer.

redcup342

liamog wrote: »

Why would they improve it, it's already a better approach than Tesla. No need to worry about a high state of charge or degradation because the buffer is already built in to the batter. It's far more friendly to the normal consumer.

Like you said this isn't a Tesla thread.

But I set mine between 60-80 percent for normal weekly driving, it'll charge to that point and stop.

Then Sentry mode isn't draining the battery. If I know I'm going on a longer trip then I can just use the app to start charging to whatever is desired for the trip I want to take.

Bonus then is that if my SOC is quite low even 30 minutes of AC Charging on 11kW it will warm up the battery significantly and drastically increase rapid charging performance if it's a bit cold (under 10 degrees outside)

But i generally leave it plugged in whenever it's parked if I can, I won't necessarily be charging.

I've experienced the same behavior on the E-Tron, the i-Pace and the i3 (although it's less noticeable on the i3 as it only charges at 50kW anyway)

Also parking indoors makes a big difference during the winter.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Any idea why charging is so slow for me at Ionity, was at the same charger point last week and it was way quicker

Almost certain to be a cold battery, I remember when the Leaf first came out there was uproar because People thought the ESB were throttling chargers but it was one of two things, Cold battery and charging curve, after around 50% the MK 1 Leaf charged around 30-35 KW.

The id.3 has a battery heater but like the i3 it might only heat the battery when plugged into AC and a depart time set and it may only heat to the temp required for max regen and acceleration, it could be the case where it might not heat up enough to allow max charging power on DC just like the i3 but would mean that setting off from 100% charge by the time you need to charge on DC it should be warm enough for decent charge rate.

If the weather gets colder charging will get slower the colder it gets as the internal resistance increases the chemical reactions slow in the battery.

Be good to have a Leaf spy version for the id.3 to see what's going on.

eagerv

Just in relation to the Cruise Control.


I haven't used it much due to the nature of my driving, but I am finding the speed up/down control almost impossible. My understanding is it should go up/down by 1km/h with a light/quick touch and 10km/h with heavy press. But in reality it almost always seems to go in 10km/h jumps. Makes for uncomfortable speed changes.


Am I doing something wrong, are others finding the same problem?

the_amazing_raisin

eagerv wrote: »

Just in relation to the Cruise Control.


I haven't used it much due to the nature of my driving, but I am finding the speed up/down control almost impossible. My understanding is it should go up/down by 1km/h with a light/quick touch and 10km/h with heavy press. But in reality it almost always seems to go in 10km/h jumps. Makes for uncomfortable speed changes.


Am I doing something wrong, are others finding the same problem?

I've only seen videos but I know Bjorn Nyland was having some trouble with this as well. I think it's long press for 10km/h and short tap for 1km/h but it seemed to take multiple taps as a long press.


I'd hope with the radar guidance you at least won't suddenly crash into the car in front :eek:

timsey tiger

eagerv wrote: »

Just in relation to the Cruise Control.


I haven't used it much due to the nature of my driving, but I am finding the speed up/down control almost impossible. My understanding is it should go up/down by 1km/h with a light/quick touch and 10km/h with heavy press. But in reality it almost always seems to go in 10km/h jumps. Makes for uncomfortable speed changes.


Am I doing something wrong, are others finding the same problem?

It's a bit fiddly, as tne long tap for 10km jumps isn't that long, but a bit more practice should dial in your fingers to the feel of it.

drunkmonkey

Plugged in at an esb charger the last 30 minutes have less charge than when I left it, going to try find another one passing back by the city.
Car was on about an hour when I got to the Ionity. It's went from cashel to west cork since I plugged it in again.

eagerv

timsey tiger wrote: »

It's a bit fiddly, as tne long tap for 10km jumps isn't that long, but a bit more practice should dial in your fingers to the feel of it.

Even a quick tap seems to increase by 10km/h most of the time for me. Perhaps more practice needed. Or increase speed by accelerator and then press "set" again.

timsey tiger

eagerv wrote: »

Even a quick tap seems to increase by 10km/h most of the time for me. Perhaps more practice needed. Or increase speed by accelerator and then press "set" again.

The funny thing is that I'm the other way round. I normally only use it when it jumps down 20kmph due to reading a sign on a slip road or something and I want it back to 120 quickly, so jumps of 10 and I end up with increasing it by 2kmph or something.