VW ID.3

That Isolation switch is an eyesore. I'd have put that inside somewhere.

JohnC.

No you wouldn't. I think the forum has been through this enough times by now.

TitianGerm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That Isolation switch is an eyesore. I'd have put that inside somewhere.

You can't put it inside though. Regulations say it has to beside the charger, or at least we're told in the Home Charger thread.

rocketspocket

The battery heater kicked off & the car was reading 8c. lasted for around 6 minutes..

Johnfred

Is it just me or are other people getting a dismal range from their cars? Charged to 80% now at 30%, distance covered 100km giving a range of 200 km, a long way from the wltp of 420km. I drive in eco mode rarely exceeding 80 km/h with no hard acceleration. One very disappointed id3 owner!

Jack lemmon

Johnfred wrote: »

Is it just me or are other people getting a dismal range from their cars? Charged to 80% now at 30%, distance covered 100km giving a range of 200 km, a long way from the wltp of 420km. I drive in eco mode rarely exceeding 80 km/h with no hard acceleration. One very disappointed id3 owner!

I can’t say my range is as bad as that, I travel 70km each day, 80% of that is on motorway @120/125kmh(in sport) and I use less that 100km of the range. Though 100% charge only indicates a 300km range on the display :-(.

KCross

Johnfred wrote: »

Is it just me or are other people getting a dismal range from their cars? Charged to 80% now at 30%, distance covered 100km giving a range of 200 km, a long way from the wltp of 420km. I drive in eco mode rarely exceeding 80 km/h with no hard acceleration. One very disappointed id3 owner!

Are you pre heating the car?

Is that 100km one drive or 10 drives of 10km each. It makes a huge difference.

Just to give perspective, I got a range of 260km driving at 123km/h but it was one journey.

Johnfred

KCross wrote: »

Are you pre heating the car?

Is that 100km one drive or 10 drives of 10km each. It makes a huge difference.

Just to give perspective, I got a range of 260km driving at 123km/h but it was one journey.

Mainly short journeys but it should be better. What % was your battery after 260 km?

TitianGerm

Johnfred wrote: »

Mainly short journeys but it should be better. What % was your battery after 260 km?

Short journeys are really inefficient at the moment because the battery gets heated every single time you start the car when it's below 8c outside.

the_amazing_raisin

Johnfred wrote: »

Mainly short journeys but it should be better. What % was your battery after 260 km?

It's probably using the battery heater every time you start, that'll eat up the range pretty quickly

It should balance out over a long journey

liamog

cruisey1987 wrote: »

It's probably using the battery heater every time you start, that'll eat up the range pretty quickly

I feel like people have really focussed in on the battery heaters on modern EVs, the cabin heater requires lots of energy to get the cabin up to temperature. Try an experiment one day and try driving on a winters day with no cabin heat. You will be cold but surprised at the energy usage.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

I feel like people have really focussed in on the battery heaters on modern EVs, the cabin heater requires lots of energy to get the cabin up to temperature. Try an experiment one day and try driving on a winters day with no cabin heat. You will be cold but surprised at the energy usage.

+1.
I blame Bjorn with his -25°C sleeping in the car tests in Norway! Who cares. I dont sleep in my car!

The ID.3 can use 7kW for cabin heating on its own.
If you do lots of short journeys and the cabin has to be heated each time you will lose loads of range.

Thats why cabin pre-heating before you leave is really important if you are going beyond the range of the car. If its just a bunch of short journeys then who cares, just drive and top up at night as needed. The car is more than capable in our climate on a long journey once the cabin is pre-heated.

Irishjg

It’s a learning process for many new first time EV owners. I’d imagine a good number of ID.3 owners fall into this bracket. They’ve faced a lot of worse case scenarios over the past few months. 12v battery drain, system upgrades, failed upgrades, winter conditions etc. Hopefully as the upgrades come up to speed and the weather improves some individuals disappointments with ease.

bodgerfederer

Irishjg wrote: »

It’s a learning process for many new first time EV owners. I’d imagine a good number of ID.3 owners fall into this bracket. They’ve faced a lot of worse case scenarios over the past few months. 12v battery drain, system upgrades, failed upgrades, winter conditions etc. Hopefully as the upgrades come up to speed and the weather improves some individuals disappointments with ease.

I’m hoping not and that I can pick one up 2nd hand...

McGiver

KCross wrote:

Thats why cabin pre-heating before you leave is really important if you are going beyond the range of the car. If its just a bunch of short journeys then who cares, just drive and top up at night as needed. The car is more than capable in our climate on a long journey once the cabin is pre-heated.

The problem with this is that we, the early adopters and enthusiasts, get it, perfectly and can live it.

But try explaining that to your average Joe and Mary. The reality is that it's convoluted - preheating this that, battery heating cold or not?, what's the weather?, what would be the expected range? (which can drop 50%+ in winter - and that's mild Irish climate only! - worst case vs summer), what cable to use and what charger? (different types of charging cables and chargers, 1-phase, 3-phase, fast, hyper fast etc), what fob/app to use? (dozens of charging apps and fobs)....faffing about all that is just too fiddly. EVs are fiddly for the general populace.

DaveyDave

liamog wrote: »

I feel like people have really focussed in on the battery heaters on modern EVs, the cabin heater requires lots of energy to get the cabin up to temperature. Try an experiment one day and try driving on a winters day with no cabin heat. You will be cold but surprised at the energy usage.

Next you'll be suggesting to drive with the fan off like a taxi driver!

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

The problem with this is that we, the early adopters and enthusiasts, get it, perfectly and can live it.

But try explaining that to your average Joe and Mary. The reality is that it's convoluted - preheating this that, battery heating cold or not?, what's the weather?, what would be the expected range? (which can drop 50%+ in winter - and that's mild Irish climate only! - worst case vs summer), what cable to use and what charger? (different types of charging cables and chargers, 1-phase, 3-phase, fast, hyper fast etc), what fob/app to use? (dozens of charging apps and fobs)....faffing about all that is just too fiddly. EVs are fiddly for the general populace.

According to an EPA study the winter drop in range is around 39% to 41% for mixed driving, this compares to a 30% to 34% for a hybrid and 15% to 24% for a petrol car. We're at the point where every new car will be a hybrid, by the time we get to the mass adoption phase people will be used to cars having around 2/3 of the range during winter, at which point it's not a huge leap to the EV figures. As we make engines more efficient there is less waste heat to scavenge which is why we see an impact on fuel economy.

The biggest mitigating factor for winter range is using a heat pump instead of a PTC heater, they use approx 1/3 of the power to supply the same heat. They don't need to be super fancy ones like VW offer on the ID.3, it was a €600 option on the I3.

As to your points around apps/charging connectors, again this is largely a solved problem. You either use the charger you install at home (the installer should give you the correct one, likely a 32A single phase) or the one that came with the car, it doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
When using rapid chargers, again you plug the CCS connector into the car and it should just work, there should be two options to pay, a subscription you load into your car, or a card machine that you can tap and pay.
The chargers should work like a petrol station, many hoses attached to one big tank, the driver should not have to worry about which is the 50kW/150kW/350kW connector, it should all just be handled by the charging infra.

Everything I've suggested above is available today, but just as a motoring forum will have a discussion around who's fuel additives are better (miles+ ftw) we'll always have the techy crowd arguing about the perfect charging curve and hopefully modifications we can make so the car works how we want to. We're a good few years from mass adoption, it's like saying smartphones will never catch on based on the days of Windows Mobile and Palm OS.

80sDiesel

As a EV nut I must say that since COVID I have used a little 3 cyclinder 06 car for a runabout. Used to be left idle before for.lengthy periods. Miser on fuel, heats quickly and owes me nothing. The whole right tool for the right job springs to mind .

Silent Running

liamog wrote: »

The biggest mitigating factor for winter range is using a heat pump instead of a PTC heater, they use approx 1/3 of the power to supply the same heat. They don't need to be super fancy ones like VW offer on the ID.3, it was a €600 option on the I3.

Which was barely justifiable, but it's €1,500 on the ID.3! In terms of investment, you'll never recoup that amount.

Fine if you only ever do very long runs, but for the average Joe, it's a huge waste of money. It should have been a standard feature.

The only thing going for the VW heat pump is that it doesn't use highly polluting gas as a refrigerant.

charlieIRL

Silent Running wrote: »

Which was barely justifiable, but it's €1,500 on the ID.3! In terms of investment, you'll never recoup that amount.

Fine if you only ever do very long runs, but for the average Joe, it's a huge waste of money. It should have been a standard feature..

I don't know about the recoup value - do we really factor that in? Not having a heat pump and the range consumed by my heater has been a huge factor in not using my eGolf on certain journeys that i would definitely use it in milder weather - we had to use our other car for these. Pre-restrictions, I travel a lot on my own for work etc and done the no heater experiments and my rang is only slightly less in winter than in summer when i don't use the heating (pre-heat the car too though) If i new a heat pump saved me so much range I'd have ordered it.

Agree 100% they should be standard on every EV.

There's no range reduction in the work Zoe over the last 2 winters and that has one as well - as standard!

80sDiesel

Whether it’s standard or not, surely the price increase is the same. It’s not as if they are free to give away.

Silent Running

It looks like the lower battery size of 45kWh, and lower price, ID.3 will be coming out very soon. Reports on a German forum that they'll be available to order from Thursday.

This will bring a whole new group of buyers to the ID.3. I wonder how low the price will be here. Will this be the sub €30k model?

Small battery trim levels in Germany are...

ID.3 Pure Performance (basic model)
ID.3 City
ID.3 Style

liamog

charlieIRL wrote: »

I don't know about the recoup value - do we really factor that in?

This is exactly my attitude, the psychological value is much higher than looking at it as a pure kWh saved. I suspect we'd see VW fit it as standard if manufacturers were required to publish two WLTP figures, the other being a WLTP with heating at 22°C in an ambient temperature of 2°C.

the_amazing_raisin

It'd be nice if automakers would put a bit more effort into insulating the cabin. Combined with pre-heating, a well insulated cabin would take a lot off the heating demand in winter

It's not like it's anything particularly new, we've been building passive houses for decades, they just need to take some of the ideas from that and translate them to cars

I see some of the higher ends models like the E-Tron can be fitted with double glazed windows. It's primarily for noise but would likely help a lot with keeping the heat in as well. Hopefully those kinds of options will start filtering down to the ID.3 and other cars

KCross

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I see some of the higher ends models like the E-Tron can be fitted with double glazed windows. It's primarily for noise but would likely help a lot with keeping the heat in as well. Hopefully those kinds of options will start filtering down to the ID.3 and other cars

I thought the plus and/or max had that already?

the_amazing_raisin

KCross wrote: »

I thought the plus and/or max had that already?

I think the Max has it on the front window only. E-Tron can have it on side windows as well

lafors

liamog wrote: »

According to an EPA study the winter drop in range is around 39% to 41% for mixed driving, this compares to a 30% to 34% for a hybrid and 15% to 24% for a petrol car. We're at the point where every new car will be a hybrid, by the time we get to the mass adoption phase people will be used to cars having around 2/3 of the range during winter, at which point it's not a huge leap to the EV figures. As we make engines more efficient there is less waste heat to scavenge which is why we see an impact on fuel economy.

The biggest mitigating factor for winter range is using a heat pump instead of a PTC heater, they use approx 1/3 of the power to supply the same heat. They don't need to be super fancy ones like VW offer on the ID.3, it was a €600 option on the I3.

As to your points around apps/charging connectors, again this is largely a solved problem. You either use the charger you install at home (the installer should give you the correct one, likely a 32A single phase) or the one that came with the car, it doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
When using rapid chargers, again you plug the CCS connector into the car and it should just work, there should be two options to pay, a subscription you load into your car, or a card machine that you can tap and pay.
The chargers should work like a petrol station, many hoses attached to one big tank, the driver should not have to worry about which is the 50kW/150kW/350kW connector, it should all just be handled by the charging infra.

Everything I've suggested above is available today, but just as a motoring forum will have a discussion around who's fuel additives are better (miles+ ftw) we'll always have the techy crowd arguing about the perfect charging curve and hopefully modifications we can make so the car works how we want to. We're a good few years from mass adoption, it's like saying smartphones will never catch on based on the days of Windows Mobile and Palm OS.

Best post I've seen on the EV forum for a while!

There's a false sense of confusion around electric cars. For example range anxiety is something 90% of drivers would ever know about as they would be charging at home all of the time and rarely drive further then the max range of the car, yet the media etc. would have people believe it.

I've been driving the Hyundai Ioniq for the last 3 years, the range I get is about 220km in summer, 180km in winter, have I ever needed to worry about it? No. I've only taken 4 trips in 3 years in it that have been greater than my range. I knew I was doing them so marked off a few places I could stop and had no issues doing them.

I'm swapping to an ID.3 next month so it will be interesting to see the difference between it and the Ioniq. Everyone here seems to complain about the range difference and lack of heat pump as standard, guess I'll see coming from having one to not. The software is my bigger worry. I asked for the newest to be installed before I collect it so hopefully it's out before mid feb. I don't fancy collecting and then having to give it back for a day to do an update.

TitianGerm

https://twitter.com/vwmanufaktur_de/status/1351480232553930753?s=19

Production to start in Dresden soon.

the_amazing_raisin

TitianGerm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/vwmanufaktur_de/status/1351480232553930753?s=19

Production to start in Dresden soon.

Is that the glass factory? I'd love to do the tour at some point

I looked into collecting my ID.4 from there and unfortunately they'll only let German customers drive away in their new cars

That would be some road trip home in an unfamiliar car

kris_2021

just joined 12v dead battery club ( no problem for last 4 months and today completely dead. VW ID3 assistance team is looking into this now for me....