VW ID.3

When you think of it basic model 3 is "only" 8 K more expensive, 5.5 second 0-60 or 0-100 ? anyway much faster.

slave1

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is that ? that's unreal ?

The id.3 is becoming more of a disappointment .

Between availability, pricing and fast charging are they not all a disappointment

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

Between availability, pricing and fast charging are they not all a disappointment

How do you mean ?

unkel

I think slave1 means that pretty much all EVs are overpriced at the moment, there are not enough different models of EVs out, ones that are reasonably good value are scooped up and there are long waiting lists and delays. There is not enough competition, and many of the latest EV offerings offer slower charging speeds than budget cars launched years ago.

From €49k (before incentives) Kona EV, a cross over supermini with a poor spec to a Tesla Model 3 base model that should be cheaper in Ireland than in most other EU countries, but isn't. To the ID.3 base model where they have lowered the charging speed to 50kWh (just over 1C :rolleyes:) because they want you to fork out extra for the optional 100kW charging

If that's what he means, then I fully agree. All very disappointing

Bring forward those stricter EU CO2 rules and we will finally see mass production of EVs and competition, giving us much better value for money...

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Bring forward those stricter EU CO2 rules and we will finally see mass production of EVs and competition, giving us much better value for money...

I think thats exactly what its going to take so probably 2021 before they start adjusting prices down to force EV sales up.... its also basically what Honda have said...
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111275624&postcount=54

unkel

Agreed. 2021 will finally be the year of the EV.

Old diesel

The Model 3 isn't THAT bad when you consider what is on the market new for 50 k (pre budget).

To get the wow factor of a Model 3 anywhere else would cost you a lot more than 50 k.

Let's see how much a new Land Rover Defender will cost for example.

See how much a proper powerful BMW 3 series that isnt a 320d would cost.

And try and imagine what Audi would cost for a 2019 equivalent (in awesomeness and legendary status) of the 1980s Ur Quattro. That's what they'd need to match Model 3 cool factor. And they would want more then 50 k for it if they could even bother to make it.

A lot more then 50 k.

listermint

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Probably no point VW doing anything until after the 8th of October here. They drop the bik limit to the 40k or get rid of it that'll end a lot of pre orders.
Meanwhile Leo is over telling US banks they should stop supporting fossil fuel businesses. I'd say they'll laugh their heads off at him later after a few drinks.

Doubt it.

The markets moving against fossil fuels.

Hell fossil fuels business is diversified away from it.

Nothing amusing about it. The trends away from it. Not to soon either.

scooby77

unkel wrote: »

Agreed. 2021 will finally be the year of the EV.

That would be great, but I think it'll be a few years later. If one looks at this from a business point of view, as opposed to motoring or environmental, it's hard to see prices coming down. Some are saying battery prices will fall thus car prices will. However all current and potential ev manufacturers are experiencing/ facing massive R & D costs. This has to be recouped, and shareholders will only have some patience.
A theme is developing in financial/business media of doubts emerging regarding the rate of of ev uptake. A common thought is "It's alright to say you're building a million vehicles, but who is going to buy them?" Doubts have been triggered by, as mentioned, spiralling development costs, research showing falling enthusiasm in large markets for conversion, particularly & recently in Germany, and most importantly a disproportionate fall of ev sales due to reductions in subsidies, most notably in China. (Ev sales as a proportion of all sales). Government subsidies/incentives will reduce.
Business media are not particularly anti-ev. Bloomberg for example have many positive stories. I hope my next car (2021/22) is an ev. But there are speedbumps on the road, and possible diversions.
I'm not a huge Musk fan, but I do acknowledge his intelligence. Even he, by his own admission greatly underestimated how difficult it is to bring a mass market ev to production - easier to put a rocket in space to loosely paraphrase.
Hopefully the next decade will see a watershed, but I dont believe it will be in the first half of it.

The id.3 will sell.

People are paying 40 K for a Kona , the petrol Kona costs a lot less and the id.3 is a lot nicer and will be a lot better to drive, it will sell well.

drunkmonkey

listermint wrote: »

The markets moving against fossil fuels.

US banks have invested $1.9 trillion in fossil fuel projects since 2016. It's an expanding sector. When you see the price of fossil fuels start to drop then you know Green/Electric power is having an impact. I don't think we're anywhere near that point.

sk8board

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The id.3 will sell.

People are paying 40 K for a Kona , the petrol Kona costs a lot less and the id.3 is a lot nicer and will be a lot better to drive, it will sell well.

It depends - no EV has been tested at mass market pricing here in Ireland yet. It’s all still early adopters that are buying, just 2 in every 100 cars sold so far this year are EVs. Irrespective of the pent up demand on forums like this, the reality is far removed. That volume will improve, but it has years to go, not in EV availability, but in EV cost.

Two examples of what the mass market spends on cars:
1.
According to the news reports yesterday, the average cost of the 100,000+ imports was €16,100.

2.
There are 38,000 cars for sale on carzone this morning. 35,000 are less that €40k.

The % of people spending €40k+ on a car (new or 2nd hand), is very much the minority.

unkel

sk8board wrote: »

It depends - no EV has been tested at mass market pricing here in Ireland yet. It’s all still early adopters that are buying, just 2 in every 100 cars sold so far this year are EVs.

We are very far behind. We need an almighty stick & carrot approach in the next few years. And then get to a similar state as in Norway, where 60 in every 100 cars sold this year are EVs. The best selling car this year in the Netherlands is the Tesla Model 3!

Miscreant

sk8board wrote: »

Two examples of what the mass market spends on cars:
1.
According to the news reports yesterday, the average cost of the 100,000+ imports was €16,100.

2.
There are 38,000 cars for sale on carzone this morning. 35,000 are less that €40k.

The % of people spending €40k+ on a car (new or 2nd hand), is very much the minority.

This is exactly the point. Until the price of an EV drops to the level where the ordinary motorist can afford one then we're a while off adoption. IF (and yes, I am using all CAPS here, because it looks like a big if at the moment) Volkswagen can deliver on their earlier promise of having the ID3 at very close to the price of a diesel Golf then I think they are on to a winner. Announcing a €3k price increase does not bode well for this.

There are only so many "early adopters" to go around and pay the inflated prices at the moment so the market will run dry if it stays at the €40k mark. I read posters saying that if you're going to pay that for an EV then you may as well go for a Model 3 at €48k as it is a better car overall. That is like telling someone to go for a base model 3 series BMW instead of their Ford Focus and not realistic for the vast majority of motorists. Where is this extra money going to come from? Most people are already stretching themselves at anything over €15k second hand, otherwise they go for a PCP deal at a monthly rate they can afford on a new car (I would imagine this to be under the €300 mark for most) and at that rate they are locked in to change every 3 years so it is a seemingly never ending cycle.

I'm still holding fire on my opinion of the ID3 at the moment and I am hopeful that VW deliver what they promised.

unkel

Miscreant wrote: »

This is exactly the point. Until the price of an EV drops to the level where the ordinary motorist can afford one then we're a while off adoption. IF (and yes, I am using all CAPS here, because it looks like a big if at the moment) Volkswagen can deliver on their earlier promise of having the ID3 at very close to the price of a diesel Golf then I think they are on to a winner.

I bought my EV nearly 3 years ago for the price of a (similar size) Skoda Octavia diesel. So it could be done even way back then. That said, I acknowledge that today all EVs are overpriced as the manufacturers can ask very high prices as demand is bigger than supply and they are not yet forced to mass manufacture them as there are no fines for high average emissions yet, so there are no economies of scale in mass manufacturing and there is very little competition

We'll just have to wait it out until there is more supply in 2021, and at that same time start taxing the bejaysus out of new diesel cars so that nobody buys those anymore

Johnboy1951

unkel wrote: »

I bought my EV nearly 3 years ago for the price of a (similar size) Skoda Octavia diesel. So it could be done even way back then. That said, I acknowledge that today all EVs are overpriced as the manufacturers can ask very high prices as demand is bigger than supply and they are not yet forced to mass manufacture them as there are no fines for high average emissions yet, so there are no economies of scale in mass manufacturing and there is very little competition

We'll just have to wait it out until there is more supply in 2021, and at that same time start taxing the bejaysus out of new diesel cars so that nobody buys those anymore

When there is a BEV Octavia available, for the price of an Octavia DSG Diesel, then I will buy ........ the price BEFORE there are any artificial taxes to drive people to EV.

The cars do not exist today, and not for the next few years, to compete with the ICE vehicles, and what are available are overpriced.

When would you expect to see a range of cars close to what are available in ICE on the forecourts?
10 years? 20 years?

By then I expect the battery technology to have changed considerably, which might well provide a reduction in price.

jonnythefox

Just received a pre booking form from VW Ireland

Asking for preferences such as :
Trim level
Exterior Colour
Interior Colour

liamog

Email or snail mail. I've not had anything yet.

kris_2021

jonnythefox wrote: »

Just received a pre booking form from VW Ireland

Asking for preferences such as :
Trim level
Exterior Colour
Interior Colour

Can u add the price to your preferences: below 30k 😎

jonnythefox

liamog wrote: »

Email or snail mail. I've not had anything yet.

Email .....

Silent Running

liamog wrote: »

Email or snail mail. I've not had anything yet.

I got a call from the dealer last week asking what colour combination and spec level I wanted. I was asked if I was going to follow through with an order, but as there were no prices available, I said I wouldn't make that call until I had the price.

There absolutely will be PCP available, but the % rate isn't known at the moment.

jonnythefox

kris_2021 wrote: »

Can u add the price to your preferences: below 30k 😎

No prices yet. Just the usual “below 40k” jargon.
It states that orders open Nov/early Dec
Your preferences that you choose now are non binding and only for planning purposes.

jonnythefox

Silent Running wrote: »

I got a call from the dealer last week asking what colour combination and spec level I wanted. I was asked if I was going to follow through with an order, but as there were no prices available, I said I wouldn't make that call until I had the price.

There absolutely will be PCP available, but the % rate isn't known at the moment.

0% PCP would be nice .... wishful thinking

drunkmonkey

What spec are people picking and colours?

We only have 4 colour options? White, Green/Blue, Grey and Moonstone grey?

Silent Running

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What spec are people picking and colours?

We only have 4 colour options? White, Green/Blue, Grey and Moonstone grey?

I'd like to get a clear picture of the Moonstone that was on the car on the right of the stage at the launch. Maybe someone going to Frankfurt could get a picture that represents the colour fairly accurately.

I think I like it, but it's hard to judge the colour under the lights. :cool:

drunkmonkey

There's 2 Grey's I think...

The moonstone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIgyRyXjwJM

Go to 30 seconds in here think that's the other grey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOgzvonUwp0

Sensible me says the second one i've a similar color on my GTi and it's very easy to keep. I like the moonstone but I'm not sure how easy that color would be to keep clean.

One thing I've thought of and it's a problem in the GTI is going to a car wash they can never clean the back window with the massive spoiler on the id3 that back window could be a nusance keep clean.

rx8

Silent Running wrote: »

I'd like to get a clear picture of the Moonstone that was on the car on the right of the stage at the launch. Maybe someone going to Frankfurt could get a picture that represents the colour fairly accurately.

I think I like it, but it's hard to judge the colour under the lights. :cool:

Any good to you...

Silent Running

rx8 wrote: »

Any good to you...

Great pictures, thanks. They show both the grey and the moonstone and the difference is clear. The picture close up, with the bike on the back... would you say that the picture accurately reflects the colour of the car in the metal?

rx8

Silent Running wrote: »

Great pictures, thanks. They show both the grey and the moonstone and the difference is clear. The picture close up, with the bike on the back... would you say that the picture accurately reflects the colour of the car in the metal?

Pictures 2,3 and 5 are the same car, that had the bike attached. 1&4 are the lighter grey. This new S10 phone does take some super pictures also!.

Silent Running

rx8 wrote: »

Pictures 2,3 and 5 are the same car, that had the bike attached. 1&4 are the lighter grey. This new S10 phone does take some super pictures also!.

That would be my colour choice so.

Thanks for the piccies.