VW ID.3

Mike9832

JohnC. wrote: »

So the base is still 50 then. If you upgrade, it's no longer base.

Exactly

Someone with sense

liamog

The point being, it's an option for people, so constantly pointing out their is only 50kW CCS on the absolute bare bones small battery version, whilst leaving out that their is an option, may give people the wrong impression.

The base model of the ID.3 1st Edition does have 100kW CCS charging and an 11kW on-board charger.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

The point being, it's an option for people, so constantly pointing out their is only 50kW CCS on the absolute bare bones small battery version, whilst leaving out that their is an option, may give people the wrong impression.

The base model of the ID.3 1st Edition does have 100kW CCS charging and an 11kW on-board charger.

Its only right it's pointed out

Base version for 30k is the car everyone is waiting for, it should be standard anyway

2021 this yoke is out, 2011 EVs had 50kw DC charging standard

I think its ridiculous they are going to charge for it,I'll say no more about it

I can keep my mouth shut if you want

It is outrageous they charge more for faster charging capability, as stated, 50 Kw is actually 2009 tech when the Leaf was a converted Tiida.

Faster charging is kind of a big deal with electric cars, skimp on tech but not on the essentials.

liamog

Just as it's only right to properly point out it's currently an option to upgrade with a unknown price.

The only people who will be bothered that the CCS charge speed is limited to 50kW will be able to pay for the faster version. I'd rather VW provide options and a cheaper starting price, than do what Hyundai do with the Kona, where they overspec the car compared to it's combustion version.
Leading to comparisons where they compare the base petrol Kona with the base electric Kona and show a €17,000 difference in price.

McGiver

Mike9832 wrote: »

Says 34k on Nissan site

27k for 40kWh

https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/offers/big-electric-switch.html

That's with scrappage, otherwise it's 38. As I said, you're not comparing like with like.

Agree with most of your post, no denying Leaf62 is a flawed yoke

It is, so no point comparing other cars with it!

ID3 base can only charge at 50kW too

It could be an option/extra and then you will have realistic high speed CCS on the ground. With L62 you won't have it because no such chargers exist and probably won't. So it's moot.

Range isn't going to be great on ID3 at speed either, coefficient drag is poor compared to best in class

It will be at least 10% better than L62, my money on it.

Nissan degradation issues are not bad here, they've improved alot in recent years, I wouldnt worry about Leaf62 there

Bound to degrade with no liquid cooling. VW battery will last years with little degradation. eGold had estimated yearly degradation of 2% (with high miliage) and that was not BEV built from scratch. ID3 will be even better something close to i3 at least.

Mike9832

McGiver wrote: »

That's with scrappage, otherwise it's 38. As I said, you're not comparing like with like.


It is, so no point comparing other cars with it!


It could be an option/extra and then you will have realistic high speed CCS on the ground. With L62 you won't have it because no such chargers exist and probably won't. So it's moot.


It will be at least 10% better than L62, my money on it.


Bound to degrade with no liquid cooling. VW battery will last years with little degradation. eGold had estimated yearly degradation of 2% (with high miliage) and that was not BEV built from scratch. ID3 will be even better something close to i3 at least.

Base 45kWh 10% more range than Leaf 62?

Ill take that bet

€100?

liamog

Mike9832 wrote: »

Range isn't going to be great on ID3 at speed either, coefficient drag is poor compared to best in class

Took a little time to gather the info on this.
The ID.3 Cd is only 0.267, versus the Ioniq which has 0.24

One key figure here is the frontal area. The ID.3 has a smaller frontal area than the Ioniq 2.63 sq m vs 2.36 sq m. You can multiply the two get the CdA, the Ioniq and ID.3 end up almost identical at around 0.630 (ID.3) vs 0.631 (Ioniq).

The ID.3 is a little heavier that the Ioniq 230kg, but it should still be pretty good at mulching motorway miles.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

Took a little time to gather the info on this.
The ID.3 Cd is only 0.267, versus the Ioniq which has 0.24

One key figure here is the frontal area. The ID.3 has a smaller frontal area than the Ioniq 2.63 sq m vs 2.36 sq m. You can multiply the two get the CdA, the Ioniq and ID.3 end up almost identical at around 0.630 (ID.3) vs 0.631 (Ioniq).

The ID.3 is a little heavier that the Ioniq 230kg, but it should still be pretty good at mulching motorway miles.

I don't know I must be crazy

Ye are so easy to please here

This is from VW

Ze Germans

The biggest car industry in the world, best in class, top engineering

For something built from the ground up and billions thrown at it, it should be alot better

Not match something thrown together by the Koreans, even the yanks led by a lunatic with no money are better

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

I don't know I must be crazy

Ye are so easy to please here

This is from VW

Ze Germans

The biggest car industry in the world, best in class, top engineering

For something built from the ground up and billions thrown at it, it should be alot better

Why should it be a whole lot better ? the company just wants to try repair the damage caused by the emissions scandal.

VW have paid a lot of money into ev R&D and fines in the U.S so they want to make as much money as possible.

To be honest the battery costs are the greatest issue and I don't think any car company can do anything about that for the foreseeable but on the other hand they could be just inflating prices to make the most of the taxpayer funded grants.

Mike9832

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why should it be a whole lot better ? the company just wants to try repair the damage caused by the emissions scandal.

VW have paid a lot of money into ev R&D and fines in the U.S so they want to make as much money as possible.

To be honest the battery costs are the greatest issue and I don't think any car company can do anything about that for the foreseeable but on the other hand they could be just inflating prices to make the most of the taxpayer funded grants.

The better the efficiency the less batteries you need, reducing cost

rivegauche

Apart from a few more battery cells there isn't much more "making" in an ID3 than there is in an e-UP yet they are charging near twice the price.
I am convinced that VW want to show that they can make electric cars in quantity and not only that but make profit selling them.
The only thing the e-UP has got going for it is that it has most of the development costs amortized over the last 8 years making about 200k units a year.

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

The better the efficiency the less batteries you need, reducing cost

Not that easy to improve efficiency while loading the car with more batteries while also giving passengers decent room.

pdpmur

rivegauche wrote: »

......and not only that but make profit selling them.
year.

What?????
A company that wants to make a profit?????
Are you sure about that?

0lddog

Will sell by the bucket load in Germany

Profit will be provided by the tax payer

https://autovistagroup.com/news-and-insights/germany-announces-expanded-ev-incentive-programme

( this is not state aid for a major german industrial sector that happens to be on it knees )

JPA

Mike9832 wrote: »

Base 45kWh 10% more range than Leaf 62?

Ill take that bet

€100?

10% more efficient is what they are saying.

Shefwedfan

I haven't posted here in ages but I guess it is the same as 5 months ago......pages and pages of Mike/Thierry saying the ID is sh*t? :-)

McGiver

Mike9832 wrote:

Base 45kWh 10% more range than Leaf 62?

No i said ID3 will be at least 10% efficient.

ID3 is 45kW net, L62 is 56 kW net.
ID3 would need to be 24% more efficient too match the range. It is possible that will be the case, I'd expect at least 10% but quite likely more.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

The ID.3 has a smaller frontal area than the Ioniq 2.63 sq m vs 2.36 sq m.

That's more than 10% less. And it is fairly high, so it must be a lot narrower. It means that even with more clever packaging the inside, it is most likely less suitable for 3 people in the back than Ioniq

Mike9832 wrote: »

For something built from the ground up and billions thrown at it, it should be alot better

Not match something thrown together by the Koreans

It looks like you are underestimating the Koreans. Read this article by Bob Lutz (I really hope you don't have to google who he is )

Linky

unkel

0lddog wrote: »

Will sell by the bucket load in Germany

Profit will be provided by the tax payer

https://autovistagroup.com/news-and-insights/germany-announces-expanded-ev-incentive-programme

( this is not state aid for a major german industrial sector that happens to be on it knees )

Thanks for sharing that. I presume your last sentence is sarcastic?

I have Porsche shares (VAG) and I'm currently very nicely in the black on them. Was contemplating selling them tomorrow and sitting on my hands for a while (I sold my Tesla shares straight after the Q3 earnings). Might wait a few days so.

Mike9832

McGiver wrote: »

No i said ID3 will be at least 10% efficient.

ID3 is 45kW net, L62 is 56 kW net.
ID3 would need to be 24% more efficient too match the range. It is possible that will be the case, I'd expect at least 10% but quite likely more.

A brick is 10% more efficient than a Leaf

liamog

Mike9832 wrote: »

A brick is 10% more efficient than a Leaf

If you don't have anything constructive to add to the ID.3 discussion, maybe just avoid it.

Mike9832

liamog wrote: »

If you don't have anything constructive to add to the ID.3 discussion, maybe just avoid it.

Its a joke

Lighten up

Old diesel

I'd like to see the following on ID3'before damning it.....

1) actual spec as standard on base and actual price.

2) cost to upgrade to faster then 50 kw charging.

Could still be a good buy.

Roomier then e208.....

Hopefully a better ride comfort then e208....

Performance should be sufficient for most needs.

rivegauche

0lddog wrote: »

Will sell by the bucket load in Germany

Profit will be provided by the tax payer

https://autovistagroup.com/news-and-insights/germany-announces-expanded-ev-incentive-programme

( this is not state aid for a major german industrial sector that happens to be on it knees )

40k threshold for 6k grant. VW will be selling more low spec ID3s than they expected and fewer high spec.
It will really incentivise them to get the Polo sized EV out earlier to catch as many sales as possible.
German forums are not certain about orders already placed getting the 6k instead of 4k grant on orders already placed and autobild says don't place an order until confirmation.

rivegauche

unkel wrote: »

Thanks for sharing that. I presume your last sentence is sarcastic?

I have Porsche shares (VAG) and I'm currently very nicely in the black on them. Was contemplating selling them tomorrow and sitting on my hands for a while (I sold my Tesla shares straight after the Q3 earnings). Might wait a few days so.

Why would you want to sell a blue chip share which consistently pays a respectable dividend.

kris_2021

quick review from Norway:
https://www.elbil24.no/tester/alt-om-den-forste-elektriske-virkelige-folkevogna-id3/71373857

just translate through chrome.
seems promising and quoting 7.2 seconds 0 to 100km/h.

unkel

rivegauche wrote: »

Why would you want to sell a blue chip share which consistently pays a respectable dividend.

I recently got that respectable dividend

The shares of blue chip companies don't always go up. I feel now is a good time to take a substantial profit and wait it out for a bit. I also have a few shares in the red, which I could sell and buy straight back to avoid capital gains tax this year.

McGiver

Old diesel wrote: »

I'd like to see the following on ID3'before damning it.....

1) actual spec as standard on base and actual price.

2) cost to upgrade to faster then 50 kw charging.

Could still be a good buy.

Roomier then e208.....

Hopefully a better ride comfort then e208....

Performance should be sufficient for most needs.

And.... It's a German car. No insult intended for the PSA Group

liamog

Closing for Review
Mod Note: Re-opened, let's all keep it civil and avoid the repetitive criticism which is not adding any value