VW ID.3

liamog

I found a PCP calculator site, http://www.pcpcal.co.uk/

I ran a few set's of numbers using 10% deposit, 50% GMFV at 1.9% over 36 months.
€35,000 comes to €428 per month.
€40,000 = €489
€45,000 = €550
€50,000 = €611

unkel

liamog wrote: »

I found a PCP calculator site, http://www.pcpcal.co.uk/

I ran a few set's of numbers using 10% deposit, 50% GMFV at 1.9% over 36 months.
€35,000 comes to €428 per month.
€40,000 = €489
€45,000 = €550
€50,000 = €611

€428 per month matches the VW Ireland presentation figure at the event. So the on the road price of the ID.3 first edition will be just €35k or are we missing something here, Liam?

Lumen

From Bob Flavin's event video.

Lumen

MM3

Anyone know if the plus or max have driver profiles for mirror or seat positions? The max looks to have electric seats so I’d assume it comes with a memory function, but maybe not. It’s one thing I’d really miss off our current car...

drunkmonkey

Max has massage seats but no memory.

rivegauche

There must be a reality distortion field fitted as standard to this car. €429 per month after lopping down a 10% deposit is simply too much to be paying for a mainstream hatchback with no kit.

rivegauche

rivegauche wrote: »

There must be a reality distortion field fitted as standard to this car. €429 per month after lopping down a 10% deposit is simply too much to be paying for a mainstream hatchback with no kit.

170 Hp of Rear Wheel Drive electric power is going to give it a fun drive, a DSG 184 Hp Golf TDI will cost more and cost a lot more to run.

I'd rather pay for a bit of fun than have useless toys, not saying I'd rather just seats and steering wheel but I'd do without some kit for a better drive.

Surely it's kitted out well enough ?

rivegauche

To give you perspective in Berlin there are lease deals for €0 on new Zoe 41kwh where the Federal and State incentives are being used to pay the cost of leasing a car for anyone willing to sign on the dotted line.

The "Danke Angie" promotion which translates as "Thank you, Angela Merkel".
https://www.autohaus-koenig.de/renault/neuwagen/zoe/891/

...and that Zoe will have more extras than a base model ID3.

KCross

rivegauche wrote: »

To give you perspective in Berlin there are lease deals for €0 on new Zoe 41kwh where the Federal and State incentives are being used to pay the cost of leasing a car for anyone willing to sign on the dotted line.

The "Danke Angie" promotion which translates as "Thank you, Angela Merkel".
https://www.autohaus-koenig.de/renault/neuwagen/zoe/891/

...and that Zoe will have more extras than a base model ID3.

Looking at other countries is pointless when we have higher taxes.

How much is the same Zoe here? And I'd be with Mad_lad in that the ID.3 is likely to be a much nicer drive than a Zoe... just an instinct, I obviously havent driven it.

How much is an equivalent spec Golf.... thats a better comparison because that's really what an ID.3 is... a Golf.

Id.3 is guaranteed to be a far better drive than a Zoe.

Zoe has what, 110 Hp V 170-180 for the ID.3 + The Id.3 is RWD that wll make a big difference, once the car has a bit of power in electric then FWD becomes very irritating if you want to floor it especially in wet.

Zoe could have all the toys in the world, I'd still drive an id.3 any day over a Zoe with more kit.

Power , RWD V Much Slower and more toys ? doesn't even require thinking about as far as I'm concerned.

More important to me would be 100 Kw charging which hopefully won't taper off to 50 Kw at 50 % lol, can't wait to see it charging on a 150 Kw DC charger.

Lumen

KCross wrote: »

How much is an equivalent spec Golf.... thats a better comparison because that's really what an ID.3 is... a Golf.

There is no equivalent spec Golf, because despite VW picking one arbitrarily to make a point about financing and TCO, electric cars are just too different.

The closest might be a large naturally aspirated petrol engine like the R32. But they don't make that any more.

ICE cars have been getting mostly worse to drive and own for the last decade or so: laggy turbos, dull electric steering, overcomplicated hybrids, unreliable high pressure fuel injection systems, dual-mass flywheels, emissions-based taxes. Ugh. It's almost like someone decided to ruin the ICE car to make us want electric cars.

rivegauche

KCross wrote: »

Looking at other countries is pointless when we have higher taxes.

How much is the same Zoe here? And I'd be with Mad_lad in that the ID.3 is likely to be a much nicer drive than a Zoe... just an instinct, I obviously havent driven it.

How much is an equivalent spec Golf.... thats a better comparison because that's really what an ID.3 is... a Golf.

4% VAT difference doesn't explain anything away. No VRT. Similar treatment of BIK.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

There is no equivalent spec Golf, because despite VW picking one arbitrarily to make a point about financing and TCO, electric cars are just too different.

The closest might be a large naturally aspirated petrol engine like the R32. But they don't make that any more.

ICE cars have been getting mostly worse to drive and own for the last decade or so: laggy turbos, dull electric steering, overcomplicated hybrids, unreliable high pressure fuel injection systems, dual-mass flywheels, emissions-based taxes. Ugh. It's almost like someone decided to ruin the ICE car to make us want electric cars.

Coming from electric for the last 5 years and around 150,000 Kms later I absolutely despise getting into an ICE car, everything from getting into a cold car with fogged up windows to as you said, lag, changing gears, clutch , the rattle and noise of an ICE and the stink of fumes, it's a horrible experience for me now.

ICE cars to me feel really 19th century, I know it doesn't bother most people but it really does me , I could never own an ICE car again.

KCross

rivegauche wrote: »

4% VAT difference doesn't explain anything away. No VRT. Similar treatment of BIK.

4% on €30k+ is not insignificant.
VRT is only exempt upto €35k RRP so there is some VRT on the ID.3 1st edition
And Paddy pricing.

Add it all up and its not zero!

Our after incentive price is around the same as the Germany before incentives price, eventhough we are offering €10k of incentives here!


Generally you cant compare pricing from massive markets like Germany to a tiny market like here.
Compare like for like within Ireland unless your point is that Irish motorists are being ripped off by the government... in which case you'll get alot of support for that argument!

Markcheese

It's wonderful that vw are comparing the Id3 to an "equivalent" golf with dsg.. Was it a highline?
Whats the most commonly sold golf (in Ireland), do they have an electric equivalent to that?
I get this is vws first serious ev, and the first use of the platform, and that development and battery costs are significant... But it's the marketing comparisons to the beetle and golf as the new "people's car" and then it's starting at 40 grand that kind of irks me...

rivegauche

KCross wrote: »

Compare like for like within Ireland unless your point is that Irish motorists are being ripped off by the government... in which case you'll get alot of support for that argument!

They're not being ripped off by the Government, they're being ripped off by the Manufacturer.
In Germany the retail price lists are only suggestive because they can't establish the depreciation and only offering them for lease.
Also, in Italy 60% are going to be the middle 1st edition specification level so probably the same in Ireland.
I don't know why I'm talking this car down. I own a lot of shares in VW. Please buy as many as you can. Buy early, Buy often.

Old diesel

Am I missing something.

Isn't there going to be cheaper versions once 1st edition is sold out and delivered.

liamog

Markcheese wrote: »

It's wonderful that vw are comparing the Id3 to an "equivalent" golf with dsg.. Was it a highline?
Whats the most commonly sold golf (in Ireland), do they have an electric equivalent to that?
I get this is vws first serious ev, and the first use of the platform, and that development and battery costs are significant... But it's the marketing comparisons to the beetle and golf as the new "people's car" and then it's starting at 40 grand that kind of irks me...

The Beetle and the Golf were cars for the people. The ID.3 is the same.
The ID.3 1st is a version of the car that has a higher spec and will be available a year earlier for 25% more.

An entry-level Golf is around €25,000. The ID.3 1st is around 25% higher than the price of an entry variant, so it's like comparing the Golf to it's €31,000 variant.

drunkmonkey

Old diesel wrote: »

Am I missing something.

Isn't there going to be cheaper versions once 1st edition is sold out and delivered.

The cheaper one is arriving in 2021 but don't forget there's another budget to get through and i'm starting to think if manufacturers keep overcharging for electric cars the government will end the SEAI grant and VRT.
VW asking 60k for the one with the heat pump is taking the piss, if grants weren't their they'd have to price it correctly. That's becoming glaringly obvious.

unkel

drunkmonkey wrote: »

VW asking 60k for the one with the heat pump is taking the piss, if grants weren't their they'd have to price it correctly. That's becoming glaringly obvious.

rivegauche, yourself and myself are all VW share owners and all three of us say VW is overcharging for the ID.3 first edition

Now if VW would get away with it, that would be good for its owners. But I'm not so sure they can. But I guess for now the likes of Kia / Hyundai / Tesla / Nissan-Renault and pretty much every other manufacturer of EVs are overcharging and seem to be getting away with it. Until at least 2021...

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The cheaper one is arriving in 2021 but don't forget there's another budget to get through and i'm starting to think if manufacturers keep overcharging for electric cars the government will end the SEAI grant and VRT.
VW asking 60k for the one with the heat pump is taking the piss, if grants weren't their they'd have to price it correctly. That's becoming glaringly obvious.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, The subsidies are keeping the cost of electric cars artificially high as manufacturers are milking the subsidies.

The taxpayer isn't really benefiting, and local Governments are too dumb to realise this.

10 K should be given to every Person who fills their roofs with Solar PV and gets a FIT for excess electricity to the Grid.

If Ireland had a car industry then I'd say subsidising our own car industry is good in the beginning but not subsidising foreign companies because in the end of the day that's what we're doing.

pdpmur

drunkmonkey wrote: »

VW asking 60k for the one with the heat pump is taking the piss, if grants weren't their they'd have to price it correctly. That's becoming glaringly obvious.

Although nordic countries are obvious candidates for heat pumps as standard, in Ireland the average mean and maximum daily temperature exceeds 10 degrees and 14 degrees respectively for only 4 months of the year, so decent car heating is probably required for the majority of the time.

To spend so much development effort on reducing drag and other friction losses for the car and then to throw all those gains away by not having a heat pump as standard is just beyond stupid from an engineering viewpoint.

Unless there's some change, I'm veering towards a refund.

liamog

pdpmur wrote: »

Although nordic countries are obvious candidates for heat pumps as standard, in Ireland the average mean and maximum daily temperature exceeds 10 degrees and 14 degrees respectively for only 4 months of the year, so decent car heating is probably required for the majority of the time.

To spend so much development effort on reducing drag and other friction losses for the car and then to throw all those gains away by not having a heat pump as standard is just beyond stupid from an engineering viewpoint.

Unless there's some change, I'm veering towards a refund.

I've sent an email to id@volkswagen.ie asking them to reconsider the heat pump. Between November and March we regularly get temperatures in the mid noughts especially during normal commute hours.

I wonder how much difference the heat pump actually makes, below 5 degrees it's not very effective below 3 degrees it's practically useless, that's what I observed in the 24 Kwh Leaf with HP.

It was handy having the energy monitoring in the Leaf, I miss that in the i3, I'd like to see the difference it makes visually because the i3 Rex has no HP.

KCross

I wonder what the effect on range actually is though by not having a heat pump, particularly shorter journeys?

The primary reason for poor winter range in EV's isnt the lack of a heat pump, its a cold battery. And of course all the other winter things... wet roads, more wind etc.

If you have cabin pre-heating (and you use it) the heat pump becomes less of an issue as it doesnt take as much to maintain that heat. It helps of course, but in this country I dont think it would make a massive difference. We should get uncle Bjorn to do a test for us.... heating on and off.


Ultimately its down to cost. Presumably it will be an optional extra. In true VW style if you want it, you pay for it. I wonder what they will charge for it?

As the range of the new EV's increases the need for a heat pump becomes even less.
e.g. I've a heat pump in my car. My commute is 60km. I need efficient heating because its a short range car so I need every Wh I can get. If I had a 300km car it would be irrelevant to me and not worth, say, €1k extra on the price of the car.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how much difference the heat pump actually makes....

Snap

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

Having attended the ID3 reveal yesterday...

I'll definitely be asking for my ID3 deposit back now. The reasons? Less range than the Niro. Much smaller boot, long range model is a 4 seater only, and won't be available until 2021 and no heat pump. Sitting in the car behind where I had the driver seat set, the Niro has a good bit more back seat knee room than the ID3. And then there's the price.

I missed that detail SilentRunning. Whats that about?
Is it to accommodate the larger pack they have removed the centre back seat?

Did they have a car on display with that configuration?

Lumen

I might actually pay 60k for a Golf-ish thing.

If it had around 450bhp and over 500km WLTP.

I hope VW make a hot hatch Id.3.