VW ID.3

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

I missed that detail SilentRunning. Whats that about?
Is it to accommodate the larger pack they have removed the centre back seat?

Did they have a car on display with that configuration?

It wasn't part of any of the talks. I hung around after the talks were finished and collared some of the presenters for further questioning. The fella that did the ordering process talk was the most informative. I told him I wanted the long range version and he said that it would only be available with 4 seats as something comes up between the back seats. I don't think it can be the battery as it's a chocolate bar configuration, so not sure what it could be. When asked specifically, he confirmed that it was officially designated as a 4 seater.

He also said deliveries of the 1st are likely to be August next year. He also confirmed that buyers will have to commit at least 3 month before any test drives will be available.

unkel

Silent Running wrote: »

He also confirmed that buyers will have to commit at least 3 month before any test drives will be available.

"Commit" as in put down a non-refundable deposit? Of how much?

The car is probably great to drive, we have no reason to expect otherwise, but that's a bit of a gamble, isn't it?

liamog

They are expecting pre-bookers to financially commit in March and April. At the end of the 8 week booking period, if you haven't converted they'll refund the €1,000 and you'll lose the place in the queue.

The main reason for not having test drives is the lack of RHD models.
They said they'd investigate having test drives available on the continent.

Silent Running

unkel wrote: »

"Commit" as in put down a non-refundable deposit? Of how much?

The car is probably great to drive, we have no reason to expect otherwise, but that's a bit of a gamble, isn't it?

I assumed that he meant that you would have to convert your €1k to a non refundable order.

In all honesty, at that stage of the presentation I already knew that I was out and would be looking for the deposit back. Don't get me wrong, the car was fine.... that's the problem; it was just 'fine' and not drawing me in. The HUD was underwhelming, the boot was too small and the car I wanted was the long range, which won't be available until at least 2021, and it'll only carry 4 people. Just in case anyones looking for frunk storage, there isn't any.

I'll look again when the Buzz becomes a reality, but the cost will probably be prohibitive.

scooby77

Silent Running wrote: »

I'll look again when the Buzz becomes a reality, but the cost will probably be prohibitive.

I'm thinking likewise, but for ID4 Crozz. Based on this it could be crazy money. Skoda vision iv or an equivalent Seat offer some hope! (Say Cupra Tavascan be uber expensive!)
My VAG shares cover them too.

Phibsboro

An interesting presentation today, very well organised. The Max model looks nice, I'd love to own one. But the prices just don't make sense, I think its a Kia Soul for me (though I'll stay in the ID3 pot until the supply situation for the Soul becomes clear).

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

I told him I wanted the long range version and he said that it would only be available with 4 seats as something comes up between the back seats. I don't think it can be the battery as it's a chocolate bar configuration, so not sure what it could be. When asked specifically, he confirmed that it was officially designated as a 4 seater.

I wonder is it a type approval thing due to the extra weight of the LR battery?

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

I hope VW make a hot hatch Id.3.

To compete with the MK8 GTE, I doubt it, I expect that car to sell well for them. I think they know it's going to.

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

I wonder is it a type approval thing due to the extra weight of the LR battery?

He kinda indicated that it was a physical space problem. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

liamog

It's the first time I've heard that one, and given what we know of the MEB platform, it just doesn't make sense.

Dempsey

My brother & father went up instead of me today. The feedback from them is that I made the right choice getting the egolf

Will hold onto the deposit until the test drives

DriveSkill

Was at the presentation today also and came away liking the car more after seeing it in the flesh....it is a nice car with decent room inside for its size but the boot is small and there is no frunk.

However....unless they really get creative with the pricing I think I'm out as would want at least the mid-spec which is <45K and its just too expensive for what you get. I think overall its 10K overpriced...the base spec should be 30K, 35K for mid and I would seriously consider the max spec which was on display if it was 40K but definitely not at 50K.

Add in the fact you cant get a test drive, limited colours and no real advantages in being part of the 1st I dont really see it as an attractive offer.

Irishjg

Yes it is surprising that the 77KWh version will only have two available rear seats. Especially since VW claim Passat like interior space. When you actually look at the dimensions I think the ID3 is roughly only 4.26 meters long. That’s not really that big. The Nissan Leaf V2.0 is 4.50 meters long and is very much up to its limit with the 60KWh pack. VW would have a hell of job cramming 77KWh of cells into the smaller frame.

liamog

At this point, I just don't believe it, every single MEB skateboard picture is a flat floor. The ID.3 having 10 modules (2x5) with longer models having 12 (2x6).
My understanding is that the range options are achieved by not filling all the modules and/or using different cell capacities.

It would be a bold move to invest so much in a skateboard platform designed to underpin so many models and then accidentally need a hump that turns their Golf replacement into a 4 seater.

tw0nk

I went to the 6pm session today, went up there fulling expecting to apply for a refund when I returned home but 3 things have potentially changed my mind:
1. Genuinely impressed with the car, my commute is 230km per day round trip and I was particularly interested in quality of seat, visibility and other creature comforts, it ticked all the boxes for me. (would loooove to drive it, but if it's anything like a golf I'll be happy.
2. The ecosystem looks to be the best out there, We Charge allowing one a/c to use any/all chargers including the new ionity ones with 27 min 10-80% charging, the app functionality, the wall charger (8.5 hours 0-100%) and the fact that VW are going to be the only entity to deal with from car to installation to finance.
3. The new ID plan, I am not a fan of PCP in general, but with electric cars being so new and this being VW's first fully electric new design I prefer the idea of 'renting' the car for 3 years and handing it back for a new one. The fact that there is no deposit and flat fee (50% of car / 36) makes it affordable and the mileage saving means it could be runner for me.

One thing I will say is that I 100% agree that its overpriced, the max is the one I would go for and it is NOT worth 50k, for me the cheapest Tesla model 3 is better value at 49k as it has the glass roof and autopilot and other features at that price. They are both RWD also.

So 2 things would make me buy this in Feb:
1. Max at 45k
2. Good trade-in value on my current diesel car

Rob Thomas

I was at the 6pm session. Car is much nicer in the flesh and I think it's a great design.

I think they are clearly banking on the finance deals selling the orders because the car is well overpriced. But the zero deposit and the 50% gmv will appeal and the reality is that very few will be lumping out the money for the car. 9/10 of these are going to be pcp. One month up front and drive it out the door.

There was no detail on the pricing for the normal model in 2021 but to my mind I'm estimating the premium is going to be around 6-7k for the 1st edition and that's not acceptable to me really.

So I expect to cancel but will wait until pricing and rates are confirmed.

But it's a great car in my view and it will be a market leader in time.

McGiver

KCross wrote:

Our after incentive price is around the same as the Germany before incentives price, eventhough we are offering €10k of incentives here!

I'll repeat this until we make the government do it.

The grants and rebates are bollocks.

No VAT and no VRT on EVs. That's what needs to happen. No cap either. As in Norway.

McGiver

Deleted User wrote:

I wonder how much difference the heat pump actually makes, below 5 degrees it's not very effective below 3 degrees it's practically useless, that's what I observed in the 24 Kwh Leaf with HP.

Exactly, the heat pump is actually quite efficient in 5 to 12 C range which is exactly what we need here in Ireland!

McGiver

KCross wrote:

The primary reason for poor winter range in EV's isnt the lack of a heat pump, its a cold battery. And of course all the other winter things... wet roads, more wind etc.

For i3 94Ah they say heat pump adds 5-10km extra, that's +3-6% range. Not sure if it scales linear manner for larger batteries, also what temperature etc.

McGiver

scooby77 wrote:

I'm thinking likewise, but for ID4 Crozz. Based on this it could be crazy money. Skoda vision iv or an equivalent Seat offer some hope! (Say Cupra Tavascan be uber expensive!) My VAG shares cover them too.

Forget it Å koda Vission iV is 85kW and an SUV. It looks very premium inside out. Won't be cheap, even if if you consider only the battery pack!

Lumen

McGiver wrote: »

No VAT and no VRT on EVs. That's what needs to happen. No cap either. As in Norway.

Not allowed under EU law. From Wikipedia....

"The zero rate is not featured in the EU Sixth Directive as it was intended that the minimum VAT rate throughout Europe would be 5%. However, zero-rating remains in some member states, most notably the UK and Ireland, as a legacy of pre-EU legislation. These member states have been granted a derogation to continue existing zero-rating but cannot add new goods or services."

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

I'll repeat this until we make the government do it.

The grants and rebates are bollocks.

No VAT and no VRT on EVs. That's what needs to happen. No cap either. As in Norway.

If we remove the VRT, and reduce the VAT to 5%. VW will still charge the same money for the car. They'll just change the Irish price to make it 40,45, and 50 on the road. Manufacturers are pricing cars for each market. So long as they can make a suitable minimum margin on the car, they'll continue to sell them with or without grants.

Realistically, I'd say all the grants are doing is moving stock between different markets that will be counted towards the 2020 CO2 emissions. If you are production constrained, there is no point selling 10,000 cars in a market with a 5% margin, when you can sell it in a different country and make a 15% margin.

Ireland got 231 Ioniq EVs in 2017, the UK got 250. I suspect that's because they made more profit here.

KCross

tw0nk wrote: »

3. The new ID plan, I am not a fan of PCP in general, but with electric cars being so new and this being VW's first fully electric new design I prefer the idea of 'renting' the car for 3 years and handing it back for a new one. The fact that there is no deposit and flat fee (50% of car / 36) makes it affordable and the mileage saving means it could be runner for me.

Did they mention mileage limits at all in that PCP?

I wonder is there a sting in the tail in that the 409x36 figure was the best case scenario with some really small mileage figure?

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Did they mention mileage limits at all in that PCP?

I wonder is there a sting in the tail in that the 409x36 figure was the best case scenario with some really small mileage figure?

Using the power of maths (other peoples power on the internet), I worked out that slide is showing a car with a purchase price of €35,000. I think the mileage was 1000 km per month.
I believe he gave a figure of 8c per kWh for night saver charging, which would work out at 162.5kWh for €13, giving an efficiency of 16.25kWh/100km which sounds reasonable enough.

jonnythefox

did anyone have any problems finding the place in Weston Airport?
The google maps link they sent doesn’t appear to be working.
https://goo.gl/ maps/qKecPprNeyKcDNPG8

liamog

jonnythefox wrote: »

did anyone have any problems finding the place in Weston Airport?
The google maps link they sent doesn’t appear to be working.
https://goo.gl/ maps/qKecPprNeyKcDNPG8

Try this.

National Flight Centre Operations
Backwestonpark, Leixlip, Co. Kildare
(01) 628 2930
https://maps.app.goo.gl/w84p7rwSjDVA7xTR7

jonnythefox

liamog wrote: »

Try this.

National Flight Centre Operations
Backwestonpark, Leixlip, Co. Kildare
(01) 628 2930
https://maps.app.goo.gl/w84p7rwSjDVA7xTR7

Perfect ! Thanks a lot.

McGiver

liamog wrote:

If we remove the VRT, and reduce the VAT to 5%. VW will still charge the same money for the car. They'll just change the Irish price to make it 40,45, and 50 on the road. Manufacturers are pricing cars for each market. So long as they can make a suitable minimum margin on the car, they'll continue to sell them with or without grants.

Don't know. Check Norwegian prices.
Tax exemption isn't a grant per se. Direct 5k grant as it is now is useless, manufacturers just take the money. No incentive for them to reduce price, costs etc .

tw0nk

KCross wrote: »

Did they mention mileage limits at all in that PCP?

I wonder is there a sting in the tail in that the 409x36 figure was the best case scenario with some really small mileage figure?

No mention of mileage limits, but I will say the presentation was made up and based on guesswork I think

Silent Running

liamog wrote: »

At this point, I just don't believe it, every single MEB skateboard picture is a flat floor. The ID.3 having 10 modules (2x5) with longer models having 12 (2x6).
My understanding is that the range options are achieved by not filling all the modules and/or using different cell capacities.

It would be a bold move to invest so much in a skateboard platform designed to underpin so many models and then accidentally need a hump that turns their Golf replacement into a 4 seater.

If anyone's going to today's session, could they ask the guy doing the talk on the ordering process about this?

Maybe try to get more detail around why he's saying it's a 4 seater? What's the reason for it?