VW ID.3

flyguy

timsey tiger wrote: »

Then a steal at €49,000 go for it.

I sense sarcasm;-)
No obviously it’s not a “steal” but compared to the ID3 1st it does make more “sense”.
If you’re considering getting the ID3 with any options (plus/max) then the telsa just seems the better choice.
If you’re going for the base/bare ID3 1st (which you should cause the plus/max options aren’t worth 5/10k) then maybe stick with the ID3....

drunkmonkey

The 1st is over priced. The ones coming after will drive a serious price wedge in VW's favour between the id3 and model 3 though. That should trigger accelerated depreciation on the Tesla's some part of 2021/22.

unkel

timsey tiger wrote: »

Well they won't, so you should cancel now and order your Tesla for €49,000 except it will cost you at least €55,000 if you want autopilot.

No it won't. Autopilot is standard on all Tesla Model 3.

Irishjg

I didn’t think there was legislation for autopilot on Irish roads. I saw it as an option for the M3 on the Tesla website. Never thought the SR3 actually had it as a standard feature

drunkmonkey

Irishjg wrote: »

I didn’t think there was legislation for autopilot on Irish roads. I saw it as an option for the M3 on the Tesla website. Never thought the SR3 actually had it as a standard feature

It's not allowed fully in Europe, good thing too as it seems like a work in progress rather than the finished article. There's also a restriction on the distance you can auto summon.

timsey tiger

"Autopilot" is not full self driving,

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit if that isn't misselling I don't know what is.

flyguy

Ok very much a thread drift, but Tesla’s autopilot is probably the best system around. The legislation in EU is a load of BS, but a lot of features still work.
Yes there has been an occasional issue which we’ll all see all over every news outlet, what we don’t see is how many accidents/deaths autopilot and it’s driver aids has prevented daily. Tesla’s goal is that it is safer than a human driving, that doesn’t mean no accidents just less.
As Tesla says it’s not full self driving you still need to look where you’re going and take over if/when required.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-europe-restrictions-explained-video/

unkel

Tesla Autopilot is already safer than human driving. Earlier in the year, when it was still an optional extra on Model 3, you got an insurance discount if you went for AP.

KCross

timsey tiger wrote: »

"Autopilot" is not full self driving,

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit if that isn't misselling I don't know what is.

I dont know.
Auto-pilot obviously comes from the aeronautical world and it doesnt mean that both pilots can go and sit back with the passengers or go to sleep. They still have to monitor instruments and ensure everything is OK.

Autopilot in a Tesla is similar. It will stop/start, avoid other traffic, stay in lane etc but you still need to be at the wheel and ready to take over if required. Like a pilot!

FSD is a different thing and marketed as such and rightly requires a much higher level of regulation.

drunkmonkey

BMW have had something similar for a few years but you need to keep tipping the steering wheel every now and again. I see lads are hanging fruit from the tesla wheel. I get it may be safer than some drivers you only need to drive down to road to see there's a good few haven't a clue. I'd like a figure of 0 deaths/serious injuries if we were to hand control over to the machines though.

timsey tiger

KCross wrote: »

I dont know.
Auto-pilot obviously comes from the aeronautical world and it doesnt mean that both pilots can go and sit back with the passengers or go to sleep. They still have to monitor instruments and ensure everything is OK.

Autopilot in a Tesla is similar. It will stop/start, avoid other traffic, stay in lane etc but you still need to be at the wheel and ready to take over if required. Like a pilot!

FSD is a different thing and marketed as such and rightly requires a much higher level of regulation.

Modern autopilot systems can take off fly to destination and land an aircraft, under the pilots supervision.

KCross

timsey tiger wrote: »

Modern autopilot systems can take off fly to destination and land an aircraft, under the pilots supervision.

Exactly

timsey tiger

KCross wrote: »

Exactly

So you are saying if I get a tesla I can just sit in it outside my house plug in my work address and the autopilot will do the rest and all I need to do is intervene if things look like they are going to go tits up and keep my hand on wheel to reassure the system that I'm not asleep or what ever? Because I'd love that I hate commuting.

KCross

timsey tiger wrote: »

So you are saying if I get a tesla I can just sit in it outside my house plug in my work address and the autopilot will do the rest and all I need to do is intervene if things look like they are going to go tits up and keep my hand on wheel to reassure the system that I'm not asleep or what ever? Because I'd love that I hate commuting.

It does what I said.... keep between the lines, avoid other cars/pedestrians etc, stop/start in traffic etc.

How many times you'll need to intervene on your commute is dependent on that commute. How many times a pilot has to intervene is variable too.

I'm not saying autopilot in a plane is exactly the same as autopilot in a Tesla. Just saying that its not mis-selling as long as its clear that the driver is still meant to be able to take back control at any moment.... same as in a plane.

Casati

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The 1st is over priced. The ones coming after will drive a serious price wedge in VW's favour between the id3 and model 3 though. That should trigger accelerated depreciation on the Tesla's some part of 2021/22.

If VW are over-pricing the 1st edition for their loyal customers who placed orders a year out, then its madness to think they won’t overprice every other model that comes after it

drunkmonkey

Casati wrote: »

If VW are over-pricing the 1st edition for their loyal customers who placed orders a year out, then its madness to think they won’t overprice every other model that comes after it

I'll be shocked if it outsells the golf. Unless the Golf is going way up in price which it might especially the performance models. I can see the Next Golf R starting at 65k, spitting fire and eating Tesla's for breakfast.

KCross

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I can see the Next Golf R starting at 65k, spitting fire and eating Tesla's for breakfast.

The current one is €50k. Why do you think it might go up €15k? That would be a massive increase?!

unkel

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'll be shocked if it outsells the golf.

Ill be shocked if it doesn't outsell the Golf in 2022

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I can see the Next Golf R starting at 65k, spitting fire and eating Tesla's for breakfast.

Is that ignorance or trolling? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former. The cheapest non-EV that can do 0-60 in 2s costs USD 1 million + taxes

You think a EUR65k Golf can do better?

drunkmonkey

unkel wrote: »

Ill be shocked if it doesn't outsell the Golf in 2022




Is that ignorance or trolling? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former. The cheapest non-EV that can do 0-60 in 2s costs USD 1 million + taxes

You think a EUR65k Golf can do better?

Ah your forgetting lads are knocking sub 3 seconds out of Golf's, I'm sure VW have something factory tuned in mind if the intercooler on the MK8 is anything to go by.

Casati

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ah your forgetting lads are knocking sub 3 seconds out of Golf's, I'm sure VW have something factory tuned in mind if the intercooler on the MK8 is anything to go by.

I drive up to 50k a year and what I see is that 99% of people don’t even use 100bhp. If you accelerate away from the lights at a rate of even 10 seconds to 100kmph you will generally leave everybody for dead.

unkel

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ah your forgetting lads are knocking sub 3 seconds out of Golf's, I'm sure VW have something factory tuned in mind if the intercooler on the MK8 is anything to go by.

A 2s ICE Golf for EUR65k from VW is not gonna happen. Wanna bet? I thought not

You act the thick sometimes, but I'd say you're smarter than you're letting on and you've been a regular on this forum long enough now to have a good idea of the state of play

Mike9832

Casati wrote: »

I drive up to 50k a year and what I see is that 99% of people don’t even use 100bhp. If you accelerate away from the lights at a rate of even 10 seconds to 100kmph you will generally leave everybody for dead.

Very true

Most change at 2000rpm barely on boost, not many normal cars make 100bhp at those revs

drunkmonkey

unkel wrote: »

A 2s ICE Golf for EUR65k from VW is not gonna happen. Wanna bet? I thought not

You act the thick sometimes, but I'd say you're smarter than you're letting on and you've been a regular on this forum long enough now to have a good idea of the state of play

I reckon around 3.5 seconds out of the box, this is supposed to be a shot of the next R, https://i.postimg.cc/Y0C64fCk/unnamed.png
that doesn't look like no ordinary fly catcher popping out through the front bumper.
Mid 3's is only a second faster than the outgoing model, pair that up with a hybrid motor and it'll be easy in the 2's.
That's my 2cent on the Tesla killer.

unkel

1.5s is a Tesla killer

3.5s sure isn't

flyguy

timsey tiger wrote: »

Modern autopilot systems can take off fly to destination and land an aircraft, under the pilots supervision.

As already said; under the pilots supervision and actually no they can’t do that. No airliner takes off on autopilot and automatic landings are rare (mainly done in extreme fog) and require a lot of additional conditions to be met before it can be done. Also airplanes can’t autoland in extreme wind conditions. The autopilot only does what the pilots tells it to do and when to do it. My username is a hint to how much you can trust my knowledge on this.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'll be shocked if it outsells the golf. Unless the Golf is going way up in price which it might especially the performance models. I can see the Next Golf R starting at 65k, spitting fire and eating Tesla's for breakfast.

If VW does well and can make them quick enough the ID3 will probably outsell the golf in 2021.......

if you look at global sales.

VW doesn’t make cars for Ireland, it probably still makes the golf for countries like Ireland where the uptake of BeV is slow due to government lack of regulation and incentive.
In the Netherlands the model 3 is the most sold car, not in its class, not most sold electric car, no of all of them (and the price is the same as in Ireland).
Norway is up there as well.
Cars in the Netherlands are very similarly priced to Ireland (also have VRT) but there is extra VRT on diesel cars and road tax on a diesel is double that of an equivalent petrol (diesel and petrol have different tax band and are not solely scored on CO2).
Just to p!ss petrol drivers off again they make (tax) petrol €0.30/ltr more expensive than diesel.
Netherlands pretty much has a charger on every street and car park (including offices, supermarkets etc).
Tax on hybrids is starting to get close to petrol as they are no good (especially the non plug in versions) so their sales are on the way down.
Even the incentives on BeV aren’t as good as they were in the past, but they’re making non BeV driving more and more expensive...
This is the way the whole of the EU will be going. We will be priced/taxed out of IcE cars. We might as well stop comparing them.

L-M

unkel wrote: »

Ill be shocked if it doesn't outsell the Golf in 2022

I think you’ll be the one who’s shocked.

Genuinely can’t see them producing enough of them, nor for the infrastructure to even be half ready for them to outsell the Golf.

I’d be very very surprised.

drunkmonkey

Did Unkle actually say that. Lol, he acts the thick sometimes, but I'd say he's smarter than he lets on...

Irishjg

This thread should be renamed VW Golf MK8 Launch Edition ! I’d swear I’m in the wrong forum LOL ��

liamog

Mod Note: Topic is ID.3 1st Edition, comparison with the Golf MK8 is ok, but if you want a wholesale discussion of Tesla's position in the market, do it on the Tesla thread.

liamog

ID.3 Pre-bookers in the UK finally got a date for their pre-booking event. London on the 25/1. I wonder if NI bookers are expected to go there.