VW ID.3

liamog

timsey tiger wrote: »

so ordering without test drive . I didn't get to go to prebookers event as had to work.

Yes, that's one downside of the preorder process.

Silent Running

liamog wrote: »

Yes, that's one downside of the preorder process.

I asked my local dealer what would happen if you didn't like it after you took delivery. All he said is that it wouldn't be like Tesla, where you could hand it back for a full refund.

liamog

I wonder how that works with distance selling rules and cancellation rights?

pdpmur

[/LEFT]

liamog wrote: »

I wonder how that works with distance selling rules and cancellation rights?

Looks like distance selling rules don't apply to cars -

See Section 4 of the Revenue document at the following link:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/value-added-tax/Part04-place-of-taxable-transactions-place-of-supply/Distance-Dales/goods-distance-sales.pdf

liamog

pdpmur wrote: »

Looks like distance selling rules don't apply to cars -

See Section 4 of the Revenue document at the following link:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/value-added-tax/Part04-place-of-taxable-transactions-place-of-supply/Distance-Dales/goods-distance-sales.pdf

That's distance selling for VAT purposes, is it the same for consumer protection?

JohnC.

liamog wrote: »

That's distance selling for VAT purposes, is it the same for consumer protection?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/si/484/made/en/print

These Regulations do not apply to any of the following contracts concluded between a trader and a consumer:

(a) contracts for social services;

(b) contracts for healthcare;

(c) contracts for gambling;

(d) contracts for financial services;

(e) contracts for the creation, acquisition or transfer of immovable property or of rights in immovable property;

(f) contracts for the construction of new buildings or the substantial conversion of existing buildings;

(g) contracts for rental of accommodation for residential purposes;

(h) contracts within the scope of Council Directive 90/314/EEC2 ;

(i) contracts within the scope of Directive 2008/122/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council3 ;

(j) contracts established, in accordance with the law of a Member State, by a public office-holder who has a statutory duty to be independent and impartial and who must ensure, by providing comprehensive legal information, that the consumer only concludes the contract on the basis of careful legal consideration and with knowledge of its legal scope;

(k) contracts for the supply of foodstuffs, beverages or other goods intended for current consumption in the household which are physically supplied by the trader on frequent and regular rounds to the consumer’s home, residence or workplace;

(l) contracts concluded by means of automatic vending machines or automated commercial premises;

(m) contracts concluded with a telecommunications operator through a public pay telephone for the use of the telephone;

(n) contracts concluded for the use of one single connection by telephone, Internet or fax established by a consumer.

pdpmur

So, according to the SI, would it be true to say that, on the basis that the the contract for sale of the ID3 1st edition will be made with the local dealer, it will be an "on premises contract" and then the right to cancel for an "off premises contract" or "distance sales contract" do not apply?

timsey tiger

buy it under pcp and then cancel within 14 day cooling off period for (d) contracts for financial services?

pdpmur

But if I sign a sales contract in March/April and the car isn't delivered until "summer" then the 14 day period is somewhat moot for the purposes of returning a car that I just don't like (e.g. bad back ache due to no lumbar adjustment) after driving it for a week or two?
It could be a bit of a show stopper..

L-M

timsey tiger wrote: »

buy it under pcp and then cancel within 14 day cooling off period for (d) contracts for financial services?

There’s a 10 day cooling off period with hire purchase agreement, and you will always be asking to waive your right to this period if you want to take the car, otherwise you have to leave the car in the garage for the 10 days.

timsey tiger

Well that's cool because it would mean that if I absolutely hated it for some wierd reason like the left foot rest was uncomfortable to me. I could just walk away.

Last three cars I bought after just short test drives, that's all I want.

adunis

When the car turns up test drive it then,if you don't like it then don't sign up then get your deposit back it's not like they won't have another person on the list to take it...

timsey tiger

Yes that is what I would expect to do, but above posters have suggested that one has to order (enter contract to buy I assume) in March/April and there won't be an oppurtunity to test drive until July or later.

Silent Running

timsey tiger wrote: »

Yes that is what I would expect to do, but above posters have suggested that one has to order (enter contract to buy I assume) in March/April and there won't be an oppurtunity to test drive until July or later.

That's exactly what they said at the launch event in Weston... except they said June for test cars. So probably August.:P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAwG_mjZA_o
some confirmation about 1st edition not being dual zone, first deliveries being in summer which is probably august and the big battery version is too heavy to be rated with 5 seats, pano roof and bike carrier.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

the big battery version is too heavy to be rated with 5 seats, pano roof and bike carrier.

That is consistent with the reasons the guy demonstrating the car gave me when I specifically asked him at the Weston event if the long range version was 4 seat only and he confirmed it.

Still doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me. What's an extra 100-150kg on a car already weighing about 1600kg or something like that? 150kW and presumably >300Nm torque would be plenty to rapidly get that car moving.

KCross

And you'd wonder if the ID.3 cant get type approval as a 5 seater for that large battery how would the other cars, that use the same MEB platform, get it particularly the CROZZ and BUZZ.

I think we'd need someone that understands EU type approval to figure it out.

drunkmonkey

Is it a height thing, taller batteries in the taller car. A 4 seater is a gigantic step backwards for something billed as the next golf.

KCross

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Is it a height thing, taller batteries in the taller car.

I thought the battery compartment was the same across all versions just some space unused in the entry models.
i.e. I doubt the long range ID.3 is higher than the entry level ID.3.

Its more likely a simple weight per axle issue and that long range battery has just tipped it over the edge for EU regulations.

I guess in the future when there is another leap in battery density they might be able to type approve it for 5 seats then.


It is a step back alright though. Shows that making an EV is not as simple as it might appear to be.

liamog

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Is it a height thing, taller batteries in the taller car. A 4 seater is a gigantic step backwards for something billed as the next golf.

It's not a height thing, it's weight. It's only the weight of the extra batteries that is causing the 77kWh version to exceed its load weight with 5 people (or the heavier pano roof).

The 58kWh version and the 45 kWh are both 5 seaters.

zoom_cool

Maybe they don't want to sell too many 77kwh battery versions they will make more profit on 58kwh

sk8board

just coming to this news late, but not being able to have the longer range in a 5-seat car, thats sold as the ev replacement for the worlds best 5-seater car (and we have a new Golf as our family car), is honestly disappointing.

KCross

I see this in the volkswagen website

"Free home charging point installation through the ESB (upon succesful application) "

ESB used give free charge points for the first 2000 EV's in the country but that programme is long gone (well before ID.3 was revealed). Have VW done a deal with ESB for free charge point installation?

Thats a nice twist if they have as you can use the grant to buy a decent charge point and get ESB to install it. Should be completely free if thats not a typo on VW's part.

Was this free install mentioned at the launch event?

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

I see this in the volkswagen website

"Free home charging point installation through the ESB (upon succesful application) "

ESB used give free charge points for the first 2000 EV's in the country but that programme is long gone (well before ID.3 was revealed). Have VW done a deal with ESB for free charge point installation?

Thats a nice twist if they have as you can use the grant to buy a decent charge point and get ESB to install it. Should be completely free if thats not a typo on VW's part.

Was this free install mentioned at the launch event?

As far as I can tell, it's for VW's own wallbox. I can't see it applying to any old charger.

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

As far as I can tell, it's for VW's own wallbox. I can't see it applying to any old charger.

Even so, it would still be 100% free and Im sure their wallbox isnt bad.

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

Even so, it would still be 100% free and Im sure their wallbox isnt bad.

My impression from the launch event was that the VW charger was quite expensive. "Free" installation is probably already priced in.

liamog

€399 for the ID Charger, €599 the ID Charger Connect and €849 for the ID Charger Pro.

pdpmur

Quoted from the Speakev site by a person who attended the recent pre-bookers event in London:

"What they did mention is that if those extra features not on the 1st edition are important to me, then when they invite me to order the 1st, I should mention that I want to order a fully loaded "series" car, and VW will ensure my order for a "series" car will be one the first to be delivered, given I'm a pre-booker for the 1st edition. However, if I were to cancel my reservation now, get my deposit back and then place an order for a fully loaded "series" car, I would just be in the normal public queue"

Did anyone who attended the event in Dublin in November hear about this in an Irish context?

rx8

Nothing like this was ever mentioned at the event in Weston.

On the Facebook group, some UK pre-bookers from their event this week are saying that, also, that UK spec hasn't been fully decided, whether Plus or Max model. Apparently being finalized at the dealers event in Wolfsburg at the end of Feb.

pdpmur

From what I have read it sounds like the paddy-spec 1st will be the bog basic version though, with one or two "extras" thrown in (that probably cost VW next to nothing anyway, like the uprated electric motor)

What are the chances of influencing Irish 1st spec at this stage?

For me the new fancy CO2 heat pump would be top priority of must-haves, given our prevailing temperatures. It would give such an easy real-world range gain.