VW ID.3

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

He didn't mention any competition though .

It's decent value for money.

Full stop.

ID.3 is an absolute bargain compared to the rest of the EV market. The ID.3 1st is good value vs an automatic diesel Golf.

L-M

Kramer wrote: »

He didn't mention any competition though .

It's decent value for money.

Full stop.

But my point is he’s saying it’s the only one that decent value. For it to be decent value you have to compare it to something, ie it’s competitors.

I’ve worked for Vw for years and I’m shocked and the value and spec that’s in the basic model, for 34k it would make Mr Nissan and Mrs Kia have sleepless nights.

People giving upwards of 40k for a Nissan Leaf and this very good spec Plus model is 41k. Wood from the trees and all that.

L-M

liamog wrote: »

ID.3 is an absolute bargain compared to the rest of the EV market. The ID.3 1st is good value vs an automatic diesel Golf.

Pretty much what I’m trying to say.

liamog

L-M wrote: »

Pretty much what I’m trying to say.

I think it's the second car where the EV version is good value compared to it's ICE brother from the same manufacturer.

Akabusi

Met with the dealer today, he had a look at my car for a trade in and this evening he rang me with his offer, it was actually insulting. 5k difference to what I want. Went in open minded thinking if they give me a good trade in id go for the plus. When I told him how far they were out he said he'd have another look at the numbers and come back to me. The 4.9% is bad enough but they also want to make a killing on my car. It has left a bad taste in my mouth.

L-M

What are you trading and what were you offered?

What people seem to forget is we won’t be taking your car into stock for September/October and if the price is wrong it could very easily sit until January and end up losing money. These are small margin cars and just because it’s a new model doesn’t mean any different for a dealer, they still need to make money.

5k does sound very off though so either You’re being unrealistic, the dealer is, or something in the middle

jordan191

I put a deposit on an ID last May 2019 when they were released but then it looked like a long wait, no prices confirmed etc etc, so as a back up plan put down another deposit on a model 3 in July. But then vw kept pushing back delivery time lines and local vw dealer had no real interest either, picked up my model 3 last November and am glad I ditched the ID probably very few deliveries untin Jan '21. Bit of a shambles to be honest

80sDiesel

Irishjg wrote: »

VW Ireland has an opportunity to take a large slice of EV sales with this car. It would appear from the reports on this forum they cannot supply enough cars at the lower price point. It’s a far stretch for most people to accept paying an extra 7K for a few extras. I’d expect to pay that much extra for the longer range 77kw version coming down the line. Not for a reversing camera a few other gimmicks added to the first.

Isn’t the biggest difference the interior quality and the seats.

Akabusi

L-M wrote: »

What are you trading and what were you offered?

What people seem to forget is we won’t be taking your car into stock for September/October and if the price is wrong it could very easily sit until January and end up losing money. These are small margin cars and just because it’s a new model doesn’t mean any different for a dealer, they still need to make money.

5k does sound very off though so either You’re being unrealistic, the dealer is, or something in the middle

I'm not been unrealistic, I have seen what my make and model of car is selling for privately and through the dealers. I think I will just sell it privately myself but might now just wait for the el born or another option next year.

pearsefitz

Akabusi wrote: »

Met with the dealer today, he had a look at my car for a trade in and this evening he rang me with his offer, it was actually insulting. 5k difference to what I want. Went in open minded thinking if they give me a good trade in id go for the plus. When I told him how far they were out he said he'd have another look at the numbers and come back to me. The 4.9% is bad enough but they also want to make a killing on my car. It has left a bad taste in my mouth.

I have a egolf with pcp payments remaining. Got it when demand was high and stock low. But basically my trade in minus my owed money was crap. Offered 22k trade in on a 182 egolf which was 37k 23 months ago.
Really considering walking away for this and mentioned 4.9.

So long as VAG get the volumes they expect to recoup the development costs they'll be making great profit on these.
Apart from the drivetrain the rest of the car costs basically near as little as a base model Skoda Fabia which sells for just over 10k in eastern Europe.
Electric motors aren't expensive. It is just the battery that costs money and they can work to get that down in price.
According to a video I saw there is near 4 times the amount of Cobalt in the cells as in a Tesla cell but they can work on that. Over 10g per cell versus 2.8

650Ginge

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So long as VAG get the volumes they expect to recoup the development costs they'll be making great profit on these.
Apart from the drivetrain the rest of the car costs basically near as little as a base model Skoda Fabia which sells for just over 10k in eastern Europe.
Electric motors aren't expensive. It is just the battery that costs money and they can work to get that down in price.
According to a video I saw there is near 4 times the amount of Cobalt in the cells as in a Tesla cell but they can work on that. Over 10g per cell versus 2.8

VW don't make great profits without volume. They have one of the lowest margins in the car industry, literally half of what PSA make. Hopefully this car will be different, I don't know.

L-M

Akabusi wrote: »

I'm not been unrealistic, I have seen what my make and model of car is selling for privately and through the dealers. I think I will just sell it privately myself but might now just wait for the el born or another option next year.

Why cant you just say the male model and the year?

McGiver

eagerv wrote:

Looks like a lot of our rural roads where there is a max speed limit of 80km/h but where in reality you would rarely get much over 60km/h. I love the way many people say EVs are only useful for city driving. IMO they are probably equally suited to the country,

Oh yeah. Been driving around the Burren in Clare and Connemara, i3 is excellent, the handling is great. I don't really enjoy driving at all but driving in hilly terrain is fun.

McGiver

redcup342 wrote:

7 kw AC Charging on the ID 3 is a bit of a mistake I would say, it'll be the same pain in the ass as the i-Pace. (You'll be relying on rapid chargers for long journeys)

There's 7 and upgrade to 11 kW. The 1st has the upgrade to 11 kW included.

But I agree - 11 kW should have been standard and 22 kW upgrade. Then it would be a perfect car (almost).

timsey tiger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

According to a video I saw there is near 4 times the amount of Cobalt in the cells as in a Tesla cell but they can work on that. Over 10g per cell versus 2.8

If this is true, we might expect pretty decent cold weather performance.

drunkmonkey

McGiver wrote: »

There's 7 and upgrade to 11 kW. The 1st has the upgrade to 11 kW included.

But I agree - 11 kW should have been standard and 22 kW upgrade. Then it would be a perfect car (almost).

Noob question, is that for when your out and about, it's nothing to do with your home charger?
I know at one of my regular destination there's only a 22kW charger.

liamog

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Noob question, is that for when your out and about, it's nothing to do with your home charger?
I know at one of my regular destination there's only a 22kW charger.

There are two methods to charge the car. AC Charging (sometimes called slow, sometimes called standard) and DC Charging (fast charging, rapid charging). AC charging requires onboard equipment to convert AC electricity from the charge point into DC for the battery. For DC charging the equipment is held inside the rapid charger.

The ID.3 1st has an 11kW three phase on board AC charger. Each phase of the ID.3 charger can utilise 16A to run the charger so we end up with 3 x 16A x 230V = 11,040W or 11kW. It's common in Ireland to install a single phase 32A charge point. This allows the car to charge at up to 1 x 32A x 230V = 7,360W or 7.4kW. The on board charger of the car is not 100% efficient, but each car is slightly different. People will often refer to the home charge point as 6.6kW which is 90% of the 7,360W which is a good rule of thumb. The ID.3 can run two portions of the onboard charger in a special mode to enable single phase 32A charging (i.e. 7.4kW). Not all 11kW capable cars have this ability.

When you plug in to an AC charge point, the car, charge point, and cable negotiate to find the highest compatible combination of charging profiles. So for instance when you plug into the 22kW point which a three phase 32A (3x32A), the ID.3 is limited to 3x16A (11kW) so that's what you'll get.

timsey tiger

liamog wrote: »

There are two methods to charge the car. AC Charging (sometimes called slow, sometimes called standard) and DC Charging (fast charging, rapid charging). AC charging requires onboard equipment to convert AC electricity from the charge point into DC for the battery. For DC charging the equipment is held inside the rapid charger.

The ID.3 1st has an 11kW three phase on board AC charger. Each phase of the ID.3 charger can utilise 16A to run the charger so we end up with 3 x 16A x 230V = 11,040W or 11kW. It's common in Ireland to install a single phase 32A charge point. This allows the car to charge at up to 1 x 32A x 230V = 7,360W or 7.4kW. The on board charger of the car is not 100% efficient, but each car is slightly different. People will often refer to the home charge point as 6.6kW which is 90% of the 7,360W which is a good rule of thumb. The ID.3 can run two portions of the onboard charger in a special mode to enable single phase 32A charging (i.e. 7.4kW). Not all 11kW capable cars have this ability.

When you plug in to an AC charge point, the car, charge point, and cable negotiate to find the highest compatible combination of charging profiles. So for instance when you plug into the 22kW point which a three phase 32A (3x32A), the ID.3 is limited to 3x16A (11kW) so that's what you'll get.

Thanks. Is the cable that comes as standard with the car appropriate for 3 phase 16amp or single phase 32amp? I guess I mean if one had an un-tethered home charger would anextra cable be needed to take advantage of the single phase 32amp.

Casati

pearsefitz wrote: »

I have a egolf with pcp payments remaining. Got it when demand was high and stock low. But basically my trade in minus my owed money was crap. Offered 22k trade in on a 182 egolf which was 37k 23 months ago.
Really considering walking away for this and mentioned 4.9.

What did you think would be acceptable value for the eGolf?

Lumen

Casati wrote: »

What did you think would be acceptable value for the eGolf?

40% depreciation over 2 years seems high but looking on Carzone the two dealer listings of 2018 models are 24 and 25k, so 22k doesn't seem like an outrageously low number for a trade-in considering margin and warranty risk.

Maybe EVs are sufficiently mainstream now that they depreciate like everything else.

KCross

timsey tiger wrote: »

Thanks. Is the cable that comes as standard with the car appropriate for 3 phase 16amp or single phase 32amp? I guess I mean if one had an un-tethered home charger would anextra cable be needed to take advantage of the single phase 32amp.

Only time will tell. When the first cars are delivered we'll know.

The brochure has "Charging cable Mode 3 Type 2, 16 A"

I'm hoping thats a typo on their part otherwise the best you'll get at home is 3.6kW(with that cable) but you'll get the 11kW when at an eCars AC charge point.

If you have a tethered charge point at home you'll get the 7kW and then use the cable in the car for out and about to get 11kW when on 3 phase.

KCross

pearsefitz wrote: »

I have a egolf ...Offered 22k trade in on a 182 egolf which was 37k 23 months ago.

The eGolf was always overpriced and on the basis that there is imminently a new eGolf(ID.3) with much better spec coming on the market for <€30k I think they've offered you what its worth to them on a trade-in... maybe a tad low but not significantly so.

Thats a bitter pill but from their point of view they need to shift it and who is going to pay, lets say €28k for your eGolf when they can get a new ID.3 for much the same money.

€37k for the eGolf was just too high to begin with.

Casati

Lumen wrote: »

40% depreciation over 2 years seems high but looking on Carzone the two dealer listings of 2018 models are 24 and 25k, so 22k doesn't seem like an outrageously low number for a trade-in considering margin and warranty risk.

Maybe EVs are sufficiently mainstream now that they depreciate like everything else.

Think the price dropped this year 3 or 4K so presumably the dealer has to base his value not off what the car cost new but rather the latest new price. If the eGolf range works I’d be keeping it till the end of PCP at which point a lot more options will be competing with the ID 4

L-M

The E Golf executive was dropped to just over 33k this year new.

I would of thought 22 was a very fair price.

Dayor Knight

L-M wrote: »

Why cant you just say the male model and the year?

Ah listen, it's just cars he's looking at...

Mike3287

L-M wrote: »

The E Golf executive was dropped to just over 33k this year new.

I would of thought 22 was a very fair price.

It does seem fair

ID3 in plus and max versions will have the same faith, buyers should be aware of that.

€41,000 and €48,000 versions will see massive depreciation, the 1st edition priced at €34,000 will see to that.

Battery prices are going to drop massively too in a year or 2, cobalt free lfp batteries below €80 per kWh at pack level will be on the market soon

VW bought into a company that specialises in those batteries recently, good specs too

200w/kg at pack leve, 3c charging ( 58kWh battery charging at 174kW), very long cycle life, 50% cheaper than current cells at pack level

I would not be suprised to see the 77kWh ID3 come in at the same price as 58kWh ID3 plus and max edition in a years time, battery tech seems to be moving very quickly now, didn't think it would happen for years myself, great news

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-guoxuan-volkswagen-m-a-electric/volkswagen-becomes-biggest-shareholder-of-chinas-ev-battery-maker-guoxuan-idUSKBN2342S7

Akabusi

Dayor Knight wrote: »

Ah listen, it's just cars he's looking at...

For sure its a car i'm looking for. Sorry, its a 5 door TDI A3 I have to trade.

Casati

pearsefitz wrote: »

I have a egolf with pcp payments remaining. Got it when demand was high and stock low. But basically my trade in minus my owed money was crap. Offered 22k trade in on a 182 egolf which was 37k 23 months ago.
Really considering walking away for this and mentioned 4.9.

I really think you'd be mad now to get the ID 3 - based on your numbers above your monthly's are going to go up and in return you get the new tech but equally a smaller car that might not have the same build quality as yours.

Unless you've got an issue with the range on your Golf I'd enjoy it till the end of the PCP and then see what options are available

pearsefitz

Mike3287 wrote: »

It does seem fair

ID3 in plus and max versions will have the same faith, buyers should be aware of that.

€41,000 and €48,000 versions will see massive depreciation, the 1st edition priced at €34,000 will see to that.

Battery prices are going to drop massively too in a year or 2, cobalt free lfp batteries below €80 per kWh at pack level will be on the market soon

VW bought into a company that specialises in those batteries recently, good specs too

200w/kg at pack leve, 3c charging ( 58kWh battery charging at 174kW), very long cycle life, 50% cheaper than current cells at pack level

I would not be suprised to see the 77kWh ID3 come in at the same price as 58kWh ID3 plus and max edition in a years time, battery tech seems to be moving very quickly now, didn't think it would happen for years myself, great news

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-guoxuan-volkswagen-m-a-electric/volkswagen-becomes-biggest-shareholder-of-chinas-ev-battery-maker-guoxuan-idUSKBN2342S7

Exactly "buyers be aware of this".
36 months from now who knows what any EV will be worth, VW can't say.
If VW are saying you have to pay 4.9% they want to get 36 good months of payments or the high cash price now for id.3.

To that point what would be least risky approach to getting car considering the depreciation unknown?
The ID Plan?