VW ID.3

Silent Running

Deleted User wrote: »

Who cares ? it will be much more fun to drive, RWD makes a huge difference. That alone will make it much better to drive and that is worth some loss in efficiency alone.

I do, for one. I regularly drive to near the limit of even the 64kWh battery and I wouldn't like to stop more than once on a very long drive. Efficiency is important to me. On a long run FWD or RWD makes sod all difference.

I would prefer RWD, but I wouldn't sacrifice efficiency to get it.

eagerv

eagerv wrote: »

I think any of us who will hopefully be getting the ID.3 are taking a little bit of a gamble, we don't yet know the real world efficiency.
I think it will be hard to beat the superb overall efficiency of the Koreans.


The e-Niro is a car I have had an interest in for some time, I would argue that it is a nicer place to be, with better range, than the ID.3 Plus which would be its' competitor price wise. Also from my recent dealings I feel that perhaps better deals will be available on the e-Niro than was previously possible.

The ID.3 is going to give all it's owners a lot of satisfaction, that is those who like a decent performing car that will have tonnes more grip than any FWD EV, what does this mean ? it means " and I can not over-emphasise this point enough " that pulling hard out of junctions onto Main roads in damp and wet or even dry but especially wet conditions will be much easier and safer, pulling out at roundabouts etc and 0-100 Kms times in the likes of the 40 Kwh Leaf, Kona, E-Soul and E-Niro will be severely reduced in the wet.

The id.3 has a decent interior, Nice screens in the right location facing the driver, but my pet hate in cars is touchscreens, it seems only BMW get it, their I-Drive system is vastly superior and a pleasure to use.

Touchscreens in cars should be banned!

Anyway, even if the id.3 is a little less efficient it should charge faster while serving it's daily commute needs perfectly while providing a decent level of performance for some weekend fun on the back roads, this is worth a lot more than gaining a tiny percentage in efficiency, especially the grip.

Silent Running

Silent Running wrote: »

I do, for one. I regularly drive to near the limit of even the 64kWh battery and I wouldn't like to stop more than once on a very long drive. Efficiency is important to me. On a long run FWD or RWD makes sod all difference.

I would prefer RWD, but I wouldn't sacrifice efficiency to get it.

If you regularly drive near the range limit then you may have chosen the wrong car.

Yes you are correct on a long drive RWD is less important but to me safety is more important pulling out of back country roads onto high speed main roads in damp and wet conditions or pulling out at roundabouts and I wouldn't for any reason trade RWD for 20-40 Kms more range in a FWD EV that efficiency to me wouldn't be worth the absolute frustration when I can't get traction.

Silent Running

Deleted User wrote: »

If you regularly drive near the range limit then you may have chosen the wrong car.

Yes you are correct on a long drive RWD is less important but to me safety is more important pulling out of back country roads onto high speed main roads in damp and wet conditions or pulling out at roundabouts and I wouldn't for any reason trade RWD for 20-40 Kms more range in a FWD EV that efficiency to me wouldn't be worth the absolute frustration when I can't get traction.

One of my pet hate sayings.

I bought the E-Niro because it's the right car for that job. One stop to charge and eat at the same time. Without pushing a petrol solution like the REX, what EV would you think would handle a 520km run better?

The ID3 1st might prove to be a problem with the one stop plan on that run.

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

The ID.3 is going to give all it's owners a lot of satisfaction, that is those who like a decent performing car that will have tonnes more grip than any FWD EV, what does this mean ? it means " and I can not over-emphasise this point enough " that pulling hard out of junctions onto Main roads in damp and wet or even dry but especially wet conditions will be much easier and safer, pulling out at roundabouts etc and 0-100 Kms times in the likes of the 40 Kwh Leaf, Kona, E-Soul and E-Niro will be severely reduced in the wet.

The id.3 has a decent interior, Nice screens in the right location facing the driver, but my pet hate in cars is touchscreens, it seems only BMW get it, their I-Drive system is vastly superior and a pleasure to use.

Touchscreens in cars should be banned!

Anyway, even if the id.3 is a little less efficient it should charge faster while serving it's daily commute needs perfectly while providing a decent level of performance for some weekend fun on the back roads, this is worth a lot more than gaining a tiny percentage in efficiency, especially the grip.

All valid points but perhaps some of us aren't mad lads anymore.:D


I have never had much problems with FWD cars with good torque, you usually get a feel very quickly for their limits.

JPA

eagerv wrote: »

All valid points but perhaps some of us aren't mad lads anymore.:D


I have never had much problems with FWD cars with good torque, you usually get a feel very quickly for their limits.

Ya. Mad lad must be flooring it at every junction.

Silent Running

eagerv wrote: »

All valid points but perhaps some of us aren't mad lads anymore.:D


I have never had much problems with FWD cars with good torque, you usually get a feel very quickly for their limits.

Exactly! It would seem that driving skill is in short supply with some.

Silent Running

Silent Running wrote: »

One of my pet hate sayings.

I bought the E-Niro because it's the right car for that job. One stop to charge and eat at the same time. Without pushing a petrol solution like the REX, what EV would you think would handle a 520km run better?

The ID3 1st might prove to be a problem with the one stop plan on that run.

Oh another dig at the Rex, well it meets my 142 Km daily commute + I can avoid altogether the mess of queues at chargers and a potential very long wait.

I can take the Rex anywhere I want any time with the foot to the floor and fill up in about 10 seconds or choose to charge if I want to stop and eat, it's a lot more flexible than a BEV. That bit of Petrol consumed when I need it is worth a lot more than hanging around dealing with charger queues.

BEV are getting better but the infrastructure has a long way to go and so has fast charging.

drunkmonkey

Silent Running wrote: »

One of my pet hate sayings.

I bought the E-Niro because it's the right car for that job. One stop to charge and eat at the same time. Without pushing a petrol solution like the REX, what EV would you think would handle a 520km run better?

The ID3 1st might prove to be a problem with the one stop plan on that run.

You think it will struggle to do 520km with only 1 stop? I'd be looking for a refund in that case as it's blatant false advertising.

Silent Running

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh another dig at the Rex, well it meets my 142 Km daily commute + I can avoid altogether the mess of queues at chargers and a potential very long wait.

I can take the Rex anywhere I want any time with the foot to the floor and fill up in about 10 seconds or choose to charge if I want to stop and eat, it's a lot more flexible than a BEV. That bit of Petrol consumed when I need it is worth a lot more than hanging around dealing with charger queues.

BEV are getting better but the infrastructure has a long way to go and so has fast charging.

No dig. I asked you to suggest a better EV for the job. I knew your answer would be to burn petrol, which I don't want to do.

So, a better EV for that job?

Maybe the ID3 77kWh will do it in the future. But that's not an option yet.

eagerv

eagerv wrote: »

All valid points but perhaps some of us aren't mad lads anymore.:D


I have never had much problems with FWD cars with good torque, you usually get a feel very quickly for their limits.

JPA wrote: »

Ya. Mad lad must be flooring it at every junction.

Silent Running wrote: »

Exactly! It would seem that driving skill is in short supply with some.

Haha that's funny, I lack the skill to drive a FWD ev ? so you're saying, the skill required to drive a FWD ev like Kona or E-Soul out of a junction on to a main road without spinning the wheels is to drive out gently with a car coming up the road at 100 Km/hr + ? Perhaps ye lads are the type that pull out onto a main road and don't put the foot down, that's not how I drive.

In the RWD i3 and most likely the ID,3 you won't have to resort to such madness, you can use most of the power to get out safely and quickly if needs be and yes I do drive hard a lot when I'm in the mood and conditions allow what's wrong with that ?

Mike3287

Silent Running wrote: »

Have you watched this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=ZH7V2tU3iFc&feature=emb_logo

All compared at the same time, in the same weather conditions and on the same roads. Real world, not hypothetical.

Pretty good video, Matt on carwow should do more of those

Silent Running

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You think it will struggle to do 520km with only 1 stop? I'd be looking for a refund in that case as it's blatant false advertising.

Which is why I said might. Until we have real world users reporting range, nothing is sure. That will be the best case range, what about the worst case? Will it do 520kms with one stop on a cold, wet motorway? The E-Niro will, and has done for me.

Look at all the Tesla Model 3 SR+ drivers scratching their heads over the winter wondering where all the promised range is. :P

Silent Running

Silent Running wrote: »

No dig. I asked you to suggest a better EV for the job. I knew your answer would be to burn petrol, which I don't want to do.

So, a better EV for that job?

Maybe the ID3 77kWh will do it in the future. But that's not an option yet.

So what if I burn some Petrol ?, it's the better solution for now for me when I need it, there's not nearly enough chargers around yet, the situation is dire to say the least in 2020.

"I don't want to burn Petrol" well I choose to because I choose not to waste my time at chargers and I can drive at full motorway limits and beyond if I need.

Some day this might change when I change back to BEV only, kona is grand but it charges too slow, the id.3 should charge faster and this makes a difference except the infrastructure of high power chargers is still very poor.

10 seconds to fill vs 40-50 min charge........

Mike3287

Silent Running wrote: »

One of my pet hate sayings.

I bought the E-Niro because it's the right car for that job. One stop to charge and eat at the same time. Without pushing a petrol solution like the REX, what EV would you think would handle a 520km run better?

The ID3 1st might prove to be a problem with the one stop plan on that run.

Would be disappointing if ID3 1st couldn't match the range of e-Niro @ 120km/h

I'd be suprised if didn't, having read alot on it last few day's.

It's been built from the ground up, with billions thrown at it, with massive R&D, it has to be 10% more efficient than eNiro to make up for that 10% smaller battery pack

No offence the eNiro is class machine, but it's just something the Korean's threw together, it didn't have the engineering R&D the Germans put into the ID line

If ID3 can't match e-Niro, I can't wait till the Koreans actually try, that'll be some EV

eagerv

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You think it will struggle to do 520km with only 1 stop? I'd be looking for a refund in that case as it's blatant false advertising.

City range 562 km. If I can get 10.3kWh/100km I will be very happy.:)
Perhaps possible with my rural driving, but I doubt it.

Mike3287

Deleted User wrote: »

Haha that's funny, I lack the skill to drive a FWD ev ? so you're saying, the skill required to drive a FWD ev like Kona or E-Soul out of a junction on to a main road without spinning the wheels is to drive out gently with a car coming up the road at 100 Km/hr + ? Perhaps ye lads are the type that pull out onto a main road and don't put the foot down, that's not how I drive.

In the RWD i3 and most likely the ID,3 you won't have to resort to such madness, you can use most of the power to get out safely and quickly if needs be and yes I do drive hard a lot when I'm in the mood and conditions allow what's wrong with that ?

Wouldn't like to be the kids in the back in your car Mad_Lad :pac:

Foot to the floor in the i3 pins you back, thing is quick

Silent Running

Mike3287 wrote: »

Would be disappointing if ID3 1st couldn't match the range of e-Niro @ 120km/h

I'd be suprised if didn't, having read alot on it last few day's.

It's been built from the ground up, with billions thrown at it, with massive R&D, it has to be 10% more efficient than eNiro to make up for that 10% smaller battery pack

No offence the eNiro is class machine, but it's just something the Korean's threw together, it didn't have the engineering R&D the Germans put into the ID line

If ID3 can't match e-Niro, I can't wait till the Koreans actually try, that'll be some EV

Yeah, I'm looking at the ID3 with an open mind. I'm not a fanboi of any brand. I bought the Niro a year ago and it easily does the job I need it to do. It was the very best option at the time, for me.

I still think that Hyundai set the benchmark with the Ioniq original. I don't think they threw anything together, neither did Kia. They didn't get it right by pure chance.

I'm sure Audi, Mercedes and Jaguar put more than a little effort into their EVs, but they are all piss poor regarding efficiency. Just throwing money and R&D at something doesn't guarantee a perfect result... but sometimes it happens.

I really hope the ID range gives the Koreans a run for their money, efficiency wise. But they also have to get the price/options balance right. There's ample evidence that there's work to be done there. €7,000 for a bump in spec is taking the piss and isn't going to go down well, especially when the spec comes as standard on cars with a lower price tag.

Mike3287

Deleted User wrote: »

So what if I burn some Petrol ?, it's the better solution for now for me when I need it, there's not nearly enough chargers around yet, the situation is dire to say the least in 2020.

"I don't want to burn Petrol" well I choose to because I choose not to waste my time at chargers and I can drive at full motorway limits and beyond if I need.

Some day this might change when I change back to BEV only, kona is grand but it charges too slow, the id.3 should charge faster and this makes a difference except the infrastructure of high power chargers is still very poor.

10 seconds to fill vs 40-50 min charge........

Don't know Mad_Lad

Think it would be alot closer than you think

Would love to see Bjorn do a 1000km test in a i3 rex, think it wouldn't work out too good, Tesla's would be it for sure

Your getting 150km out of your car from 100-10% at 120km/h?

Your car has a 7l petrol tank, so 100km @ 120km/h about right?

150km
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )

That's like 9 stops for 1000km challenge?

ID 3 will do 4 stops, at 30 mins a stop ( 200km range per stop )

Mike3287

Mike3287 wrote: »

Wouldn't like to be the kids in the back in your car Mad_Lad :pac:

Foot to the floor in the i3 pins you back, thing is quick

I’m in the car most of the time on my own but even if the kids are in the car, if I have to put the boot down I will.

The lads love the poke anyway

Mike3287

Mike3287 wrote: »

Don't know Mad_Lad

Think it would be alot closer than you think

Would love to see Bjorn do a 1000km test in a i3 rex, think it wouldn't work out too good, Tesla's would be it for sure

Your getting 150km out of your car from 100-10% at 120km/h?

Your car has a 7l petrol tank, so 100km @ 120km/h about right?

150km
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )
100km ( petrol stop )

That's like 9 stops for 1000km challenge?

ID 3 will do 4 stops, at 30 mins a stop ( 200km range per stop )

All I have to do is bring a 20 litre jerrycan if I need lol or 10 seconds to fill up would mean 130 odd kms at motorway speeds from first charge and 100-110 kms from Rex then each 100 kms requires a 10 second refill I know what would win.

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

All I have to do is bring a 20 litre jerrycan if I need lol or 10 seconds to fill up would mean 130 odd kms at motorway speeds from first charge and 100-110 kms from Rex then each 100 kms requires a 10 second refill I know what would win.

My god you are quick, it takes me 10 mins to even get to a pump in some of those services..

eagerv

eagerv wrote: »

My god you are quick, it takes me 10 mins to even get to a pump in some of those services..

It's one thing I never have to wait much for and that's a Petrol pump, but in fairness, just a 5 litre can in the boot can get me another 100 odd kms.

The Rex is really a great option to have, no queues if I don't want, no waiting to charge, and I still get 100% electric drive to the wheels unlike any other plug in.

If it could run on 100% bio fuel it would be even better but the Government sure killed bio fuels over night with their change in tax.

A perfect solution, a battery for 140-220 Kms Pure EV and 100% Bio Fuel generator when needed.

Shame they removed the Rex from the options list for the 44 Kwh, BMW couldn't make their minds up whether to scrap the i3 or not and wouldn't pay for re-certification because they felt there was no need as the i3 wouldn't be around for much longer so they removed it altogether and then later they decided the i3 would be around a good few years yet.

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

I bought the E-Niro because it's the right car for that job. One stop to charge and eat at the same time. Without pushing a petrol solution like the REX, what EV would you think would handle a 520km run better?

The ID3 1st might prove to be a problem with the one stop plan on that run.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You think it will struggle to do 520km with only 1 stop? I'd be looking for a refund in that case as it's blatant false advertising.

Silent Running wrote: »

Which is why I said might. Until we have real world users reporting range, nothing is sure. That will be the best case range, what about the worst case? Will it do 520kms with one stop on a cold, wet motorway? The E-Niro will, and has done for me.

Look at all the Tesla Model 3 SR+ drivers scratching their heads over the winter wondering where all the promised range is. :P

eagerv wrote: »

City range 562 km. If I can get 10.3kWh/100km I will be very happy.:)
Perhaps possible with my rural driving, but I doubt it.

Just to run a few numbers because its a slow Sunday!

For pure WLTP comparisons...
ID.3 1st (58kWh)- 424km
Model 3 SR+ (54kWh) 409km
eNiro (64kWh) 455km


As a like for like comparison there isnt much between them from those WLTP numbers.

At motorway speed the aerodynamics will play a bigger part, of course, so lets look at that...


From VW docs on the ID.3....

"... depending on the usage profile, 80 % of the drivers will be able to drive between 230 and 330 km with the smaller battery variant (45 kWh, net), between 300 and 420 km with the mid-sized battery variant (58 kWh, net) and between 390 and 550 km with the large battery variant (77 kWh, net) without having to recharge."

Im interpreting (could be wrong on that) VW's worst case figure of 300km's to be for the motorway run @ 120km/h. Note, that range they give is not WLTP... its what they claim 80% of drivers will "see" in the real world. That would give a rate of 19kWh/100km @ 120km/h

To do 520km's it would therefore need 99kWh's of energy.

For a one stop strategy it would need to take on 41kWh's during the trip. In reality it would need to take more as you are not going to drive it to 0% or get a charger perfectly positioned so lets say you need to take on 45kWh.

It peaks at 100kW charge rate and should average 70kW+ for the session so I'd say about 30-40mins should cover it.


So, it really depends on what you consider "one stop" to be, time wise.

I agree though that we need to see real world tests particularly on the charge curve and how a cold climate like ours affects it. I would expect it to behave much the same as the eNiro though as they are both LG Chem (I think?).


@SilentRunning.... on your 520km one stop journey how long do you charge for on that one stop and are you driving at 120km/h... iirc you are a bit more sedate than that (said in the nicest possible way!)?

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

@SilentRunning.... on your 520km one stop journey how long do you charge for on that one stop and are you driving at 120km/h... iirc you are a bit more sedate than that (said in the nicest possible way!)?

I normally charge at Membury services on the way over, and Cardiff gate services on the way back. Both are Ecotricity chargers so the machine will cut you off after 45 minutes. So... 45 minutes. Normally just a nice time to drain fluids and take sustenance on board.

I travel at the UK motorway speed limit of 70mph (112kph). In Ireland I run at 120kph on the motorway where possible. If sedate is keeping to speed limits, then yes, I'm sedate. :P

eagerv

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m in the car most of the time on my own but even if the kids are in the car, if I have to put the boot down I will.

The lads love the poke anyway

How much are tyres for i3? They look big and an unusual size. (I'm too lazy to google it):)

drunkmonkey

eagerv wrote: »

How much are tyres for i3? They look big and an unusual size. (I'm too lazy to google it):)

They've gone with the Bridgstones I think from having the factory Bridgestones on my GTI originally the Michelin pilot sports have a lot less road noise and are super sticky, your looking at €100 a corner. Go to tyre of choice in the GTI/R thread.

eagerv

A list of Curb weights for some popular EVs from a bit of googling :



i3 42kWh

---

1345kg.
Ioniq 28kWh

---

1420kg.
ID.3 58kWh

---

1600kg.
Model 3 54kWh-- 1645kg.
Kona 64kWh

---

1685kg.
E-Niro 64kWh---- 1737kg.

eagerv

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They've gone with the Bridgstones I think from having the factory Bridgestones on my GTI originally the Michelin pilot sports have a lot less road noise and are super sticky, your looking at €100 a corner. Go to tyre of choice in the GTI/R thread.

Thought they would have been more with their unusual size.


BTW drunkmonkey, I have to go to work shortly but will be able to look in here from time to time. If you find any more pics of the base ID.3 1st will you post.
Cheers:)

eagerv

eagerv wrote: »

How much are tyres for i3? They look big and an unusual size. (I'm too lazy to google it):)

I think the last rear set cost me 110 each on Eiretyres.

Getting the tracking done twice a year has really helped with uneven wear.