VW ID.3

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

No, 33k is price gouging(because German tax payers are financing this) for a car that is so empty of extras there is an echo inside.

I've no idea what you are talking about , I was in an ID.3 1st Plus at the pre-bookers event. The car will be available in Germany for around the 35k mark after the eco grant and was generally a nice place to be. Car interiors are very subjective taste just looked at the mixed reviews of the Kona. Some people love it, some hate it.

heron_joe

liamog wrote: »

That's the point I'm making, the German series prices from the press release look like they are aligned with the 1st prices with the manufacturer discount priced in.

So in other words, it doesn't look like anybody is getting screwed by purchasing a 1st edition, but it also doesn't look like there is a huge advantage (excluding the lease discount)

And the 'free access at public charging points for one year or a maximum of 2,000 kWh'.

Shango

return guide wrote: »

I am sure the fog will clear over the next few days, but whatever the conclusion is VW have certainly grasped defeat from the claws of victory in the PR department.

I for one am reconsidering the whole thing and may let the dust settle, luckily didn't sign anything when ordering.

Yeh the Pro S or the Family would suit me better than the Plus, feels kind of pointless getting behind this whole 1st thing, also we get to be guinea pigs for all the inevitable software issues/bugs which the average punter will benefit from with updated software when they get theirs in October/November...:(

liamog

I think that's probably the shadiest bit of the whole process, would of been nice to have the series configurator and prices here locked in before the final go/no go on converting the pre-orders

liamog

liamog wrote: »

I've no idea what you are talking about , I was in an ID.3 1st Plus at the pre-bookers event. The car will be available in Germany for around the 35k mark after the eco grant and was generally a nice place to be. Car interiors are very subjective taste just looked at the mixed reviews of the Kona. Some people love it, some hate it.

By "plus" you mean "pro performance"???
That car is almost empty inside, running on steelies and is flat grey in colour with no warm pump.

heron_joe

heron_joe wrote: »

And the 'free access at public charging points for one year or a maximum of 2,000 kWh'.

at 50kw max I believe.

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

By "plus" you mean "pro performance"???
That car is almost empty inside, running on steelies and is flat grey in colour with no warm pump.

Oh sorry when you said 33k, I assumed you weren't talking about the car that will be €29,500 after German grants, with navigation, cruise control and the telephony package? Also has the 150kW motor upgrade, honestly it's pretty much the ID.3 1st without dual zone climate control. For the Irish market, it's the model we're expecting to be available for around 33k after our grants, which compares reasonably well with other electric compact family hatches available here.

Why don't you wait the 5 days until the configurator is open before condemning something based on rumour. The ID.3 has been plagued by this kind of fud, and is honestly getting old at this point.

For anybody considering waiting for an ID.3 Series edition, this is the equipment in the 'barebones' model, according to information shared by VW Ireland, it's worth pointing out that the prices we've been discussing are for the performance upgraded ID.3 with 150kW motor, and 100kW charging.

redcup342

Deleted User wrote: »

at 50kw max I believe.

Source ?

I don't see how that's possible, Ionity would be crippling their own customers :pac:

Miscreant

liamog wrote: »

Oh sorry when you said 33k, I assumed you weren't talking about the car that will be €29,500 after German grants, with navigation, cruise control and the telephony package? Also has the 150kW motor upgrade, honestly it's pretty much the ID.3 1st without dual zone climate control. For the Irish market, it's the model we're expecting to be available for around 33k after our grants, which compares reasonably well with other electric compact family hatches available here.

Why don't you wait the 5 days until the configurator is open before condemning something based on rumour. The ID.3 has been plagued by this kind of fud, and is honestly getting old at this point.

For anybody considering waiting for an ID.3 Series edition, this is the equipment in the 'barebones' model, according to information shared by VW Ireland, it's worth pointing out that the prices we've been discussing are for the performance upgraded ID.3 with 150kW motor, and 100kW charging.

Other than the Onboard charger, 16 amp cable and the steel wheels (I never even knew they came in 18s ), I don't think that spec is all that bad TBH. It is more than I have in my current car and a lot more than most would have too. As long as the price can remain reasonably low (around the €30k or just below), then I think it is not too bad.

The Peugeot e208 is about the same price for the GT Line but you don't even get heated seats until you are at the top GT trim level, and that is north of €32k. I know the ID3 will be the 110KW version in that spec but it still works out at close to 150bhp, which is more than most current family cars generally produce anyway. I think that is more than adequate for most and certainly would be for me.

redcup342

Miscreant wrote: »

Other than the Onboard charger, 16 amp cable and the steel wheels (I never even knew they came in 18s ), I don't think that spec is all that bad TBH. It is more than I have in my current car and a lot more than most would have too. As long as the price can remain reasonably low (around the €30k or just below), then I think it is not too bad.

The Peugeot e208 is about the same price for the GT Line but you don't even get heated seats until you are at the top GT trim level, and that is north of €32k. I know the ID3 will be the 110KW version in that spec but it still works out at close to 150bhp, which is more than most current family cars generally produce anyway. I think that is more than adequate for most and certainly would be for me.

Went for a look at the e-208 GT line, was not great to be honest and felt rather cheap and plasticy on the inside.

redcup342

redcup342 wrote: »

Went for a look at the e-208 GT line, was not great to be honest and felt rather cheap and plasticy on the inside.

wait until you see an ID3 then. it is even more grim.
You are going to have to adjust your expectations if you are in the market for an affordable EV.
Worst issue with the e208 is all the piano black plastic and it registered with me that I'm going to need to always have a cloth available to wipe it down and thankfully I won't have kids dirtying it up. I'll probably keep the cloth in the flip down stowage space ahead of the gear shifter if I buy this car.

liamog

Miscreant wrote: »

Other than the Onboard charger, 16 amp cable and the steel wheels (I never even knew they came in 18s ), I don't think that spec is all that bad TBH. It is more than I have in my current car and a lot more than most would have too. As long as the price can remain reasonably low (around the €30k or just below), then I think it is not too bad.

The Peugeot e208 is about the same price for the GT Line but you don't even get heated seats until you are at the top GT trim level, and that is north of €32k. I know the ID3 will be the 110KW version in that spec but it still works out at close to 150bhp, which is more than most current family cars generally produce anyway. I think that is more than adequate for most and certainly would be for me.

Yeah that's the absolute baseline for the ID.3, as it's a VW if you are really offended by steel wheels then I'm sure there will be an option to upgrade. There's a few people here and online who like to push the narrative that the ID.3 is a bare shell of a car, and that the interior is of the same standard as a Dacia Duster. The interior is the only thing they have left now, as we can use spec sheets to prove them wrong on the contents.

Cyrus

redcup342 wrote: »

Went for a look at the e-208 GT line, was not great to be honest and felt rather cheap and plasticy on the inside.

er im not being funny but its a peugeot what were you expecting :P

I'm not pushing a line. It is in fact a bare shell of a car and I'm being pushed about six thousand euro higher to get the specification I expect to match ICE cars in the same price range.

I'm trying to decide at the moment between an ID3 Tech and a Peugeot e208 GT. The Peugeot is the more joyful place to be wanting for nothing while all I can say for the ID3 is that it is bigger(which I don't need), marginally faster(which I don't need), has 90km more range and rear wheel drive. A large part of that 90km range will be eaten up because VW don't include the heat pump.

Have you seen the steel wheel covers? You have to buy the exterior design pack to get VW to put a little bit of black paint on the spokes of the same wheel cover to make them look a little bit less cheap and nasty.

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not pushing a line. It is in fact a bare shell of a car and I'm being pushed about six thousand euro higher to get the specification I expect to match ICE cars in the same price range.

I'm trying to decide at the moment between an ID3 Tech and a Peugeot e208 GT. The Peugeot is the more joyful place to be wanting for nothing while all I can say for the ID3 is that it is bigger(which I don't need), marginally faster(which I don't need), has 90km more range and rear wheel drive. A large part of that 90km range will be eaten up because VW don't include the heat pump.

Have you seen the steel wheel covers? You have to buy the exterior design pack to get VW to put a little bit of black paint on the spokes of the same wheel cover to make them look a little bit less cheap and nasty.

whats the differential between a golf and the equivalent Peugeot? 90km more range is a lot, 70km more range is an extra 20k in an etron (plus 50 bhp or so)

you haven't seen the curves for consumption. Outside summer that 90km range advantage shrinks very, very quickly.
It is discussed on goingelectric.de.
One made the comment that he'll be burning 6kw of that battery on a 2 hour drive just because there is no heatpump. There is a picture of a poster in a room showing the drop in range with heatpump dependent on temperature and humidity.

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not pushing a line. It is in fact a bare shell of a car and I'm being pushed about six thousand euro higher to get the specification I expect to match ICE cars in the same price range.

Again, I point you to the spec sheet, that's quite a lot of equipment for a car you are describing as a "bare shell".
For instance the ID.3 1st has a rough spec level to the currently available Golf Style which is €32,550 for the 150HP version, that's around €2,000 less than the ID.3 1st.

Personally I think that's an absolute bargain, and well worth consideration if you were thinking about buying the Golf instead.

Shango

Was out in a tesla Mod3 (75 kWh) there today, thought it felt heavy in turns, then realized its approx. 1600 kg whereas the ID.3 is coming in at 2200 kg with a smaller battery... Be interesting in the corners! Maybe rich rebuilds will help me switch a Tesla battery in…

Jack lemmon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not pushing a line. It is in fact a bare shell of a car and I'm being pushed about six thousand euro higher to get the specification I expect to match ICE cars in the same price range.

I'm trying to decide at the moment between an ID3 Tech and a Peugeot e208 GT. The Peugeot is the more joyful place to be wanting for nothing while all I can say for the ID3 is that it is bigger(which I don't need), marginally faster(which I don't need), has 90km more range and rear wheel drive. A large part of that 90km range will be eaten up because VW don't include the heat pump.

Have you seen the steel wheel covers? You have to buy the exterior design pack to get VW to put a little bit of black paint on the spokes of the same wheel cover to make them look a little bit less cheap and nasty.

Sure just buy the Peugeot then. If the ID3 isn’t for you that’s fair enough, there’s a car for everyone’s needs out there.

liamog

The ID.3 has a gross vehicle weight of 2,260kg (maxium allowed weight including passengers and cargo). I think the curb weight of the 1st is only 1700kg, so about 100kg more.

eagerv

Shango wrote: »

Was out in a tesla Mod3 (75 kWh) there today, thought it felt heavy in turns, then realized its approx. 1600 kg whereas the ID.3 is coming in at 2200 kg with a smaller battery... Be interesting in the corners! Maybe rich rebuilds will help me switch a Tesla battery in…

A list of Kerb weights of a few EVs.


i3 42kWh

---

1345kg.
Ioniq 28kWh

---

1420kg.
ID.3 58kWh

---

1600kg.
Model 3 54kWh-- 1645kg.
Kona 64kWh

---

1685kg.
E-Niro 64kWh---- 1737kg.

Shango

liamog wrote: »

The ID.3 has a gross vehicle weight of 2,260kg (maxium allowed weight including passengers and cargo). I think the curb weight of the 1st is only 1700kg, so about 100kg more.

Oh thanks god, thanks for clearing that up!

timsey tiger

redcup342 wrote: »

Went for a look at the e-208 GT line, was not great to be honest and felt rather cheap and plasticy on the inside.

And tiny inside too.

liamog

timsey tiger wrote: »

And tiny inside too.

I do find it amazing that some EV buyers are surprised when compact family cars (ID.3) cost more than Supermini's (e208), then they completely discount the size of the car when doing the comparison.

There's a lot more choice on the market now, so we can look beyond comparing cars solely because they have a battery, and start looking at where it fit's within it's segment.

A supermini costs basically no less that a compact class car to manufacture especially a compact car that has been hollowed out of all accouterments that one would normally expect to find in a car of that size\class.

eagerv

I imagine the ID3 will have a modern uncluttered spacious feel to the interior, unfortunately I was out of the country when the viewing day was held last year.
Not as uncluttered as say a Model 3, but certainly less fussy than say a e-208.


Depends on your preferences..

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

A supermini costs basically no less that a compact class car to manufacture especially a compact car that has been hollowed out of all accouterments that one would normally expect to find in a car of that size\class.

Which critical piece of equipment is missing from the ID.3 that is causing you to ignore all the other equipment on the spec sheet.
You clearly have a bee in your bonnet about something to keep spouting this nonsense.

Pricing of cars is based on the market. VW will be releasing the ID.2 to fulfil the Supermini requirement and price point.

Do a spec compare between an ID3 base and tech and then you get an idea of how calculated VW has been in stripping out features.

redcup342

Shango wrote: »

Was out in a tesla Mod3 (75 kWh) there today, thought it felt heavy in turns, then realized its approx. 1600 kg whereas the ID.3 is coming in at 2200 kg with a smaller battery... Be interesting in the corners! Maybe rich rebuilds will help me switch a Tesla battery in…

You had the Sport Setting enabled on the steering most likely, its makes the steering a bit heavier.

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

Do a spec compare between an ID3 base and tech and then you get an idea of how calculated VW has been in stripping out features.

Be specific, we've already shared the ID.3 base list of equipment which you claim to "barebones" which everyone else agrees it to a pretty good standard.