Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Cooling off period refund

Options
  • 08-05-2019 7:03pm
    #1
    Boom2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭


    I purchased a bill pay phone from Virgin Media online at the start of April.

    Upon receiving the phone I noticed a problem with the actual phone and a number of software problems so I filled out their online cooling off form as I wanted to return it.

    I didn’t hear back after filling in the online form so contacted them by phone. Explained the situation and was told I’d have to send the phone back to confirm the problem and then receive a refund.

    I sent the phone away and it came back unannounced the following week exactly the same. No repair done.

    So I rang them again and arranged again for the phone to be sent back for a refund. I haven’t heard anything since so I contacted them on their messaging service today and they said it’s down for a repair which will take at least two weeks and I will be not given a refund.

    Are they within their rights here? I thought under the cooling off period I was allowed to inspect the goods and if not happy return them for a full refund? The goods where faulty on arrival so I wanted a refund.

    I’ve paid €200 for a phone I haven’t got and the first monthly bill just went out this week.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    goodlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭goodlad


    You cannot open an item, use it then decide to send it back and claim a refund.
    The cooling off period is for a "Change of mind", you would pay the return postage cost and the item must be in a condition to resell.

    If you got an item thats faulty, a lot of stores will have good customer care and simply swap it out or refund if under 28 days, but by the law they can still offer repair, replacement or refund, their choice.

    In this instance they have opt for repair.


  • Options
    #3
    Boom2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Boom2018


    I was always under the impression one of the reasons for the cooling off period was to give you a chance to inspect the goods, as you would be able to do in a shop.
    CCPC wrote:
    When you buy online, you are given a cooling-off period of 14 days. This means you have the right to cancel an order for any reason within this period. If you buy a product online, the cooling off period ends 14 days after you receive it. You can download a sample cancellation form here.

    You must also return the item within 14 days from the day you cancelled. If you cancel the order because you change your mind, you may have to pay for the cost of returning it. But, if the item is faulty, then you do not have to pay for the cost of returning it. The business must refund you any standard delivery costs you paid. They don’t have to refund you any additional delivery costs for example if the item was delivered by priority posting.

    You are required to take good care of the goods and you may be liable for the reduced value of goods caused by handling them beyond what’s necessary to be sure they work and are what you ordered.


  • Options
    #4
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    goodlad wrote: »
    You cannot open an item, use it then decide to send it back and claim a refund.
    The cooling off period is for a "Change of mind", you would pay the return postage cost and the item must be in a condition to resell.

    If you got an item thats faulty, a lot of stores will have good customer care and simply swap it out or refund if under 28 days, but by the law they can still offer repair, replacement or refund, their choice.

    In this instance they have opt for repair.

    Oh yes you can.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Options
    #5
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,582 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    Oh yes you can.

    You really can’t, any more than you can wear a jacket out then decide you want to return it within the returns period. Sounds like the op put sim in and activated the phone, otherwise he/she wouldn’t have found the issues he/she is unhappy with.

    From Virgin T&Cs


    You can return your Device within your cooling off period, provided it is unused (seal still intact/box un-opened). Virgin Media reserves it right to refuse the return of the Device if it is used. You will be responsible for any damage and reduced value of the Device as a result of your opening, testing or playing with the Device.


  • Options
    #6
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Dav010 wrote: »
    You really can’t, any more than you can wear a jacket out then decide you want to return it within the returns period. Sounds like the op put sim in and activated the phone, otherwise he/she wouldn’t have found the issues he/she is unhappy with.

    From Virgin T&Cs


    You can return your Device within your cooling off period, provided it is unused (seal still intact/box un-opened). Virgin Media reserves it right to refuse the return of the Device if it is used. You will be responsible for any damage and reduced value of the Device as a result of your opening, testing or playing with the Device.

    You really can.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,582 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    You really can.

    So you are saying you can use an item bought online, then return it as a change of mind/cooling off period? Where are you seeing this?

    I understand that you can examine it or in the case of an item of clothing, try it on, but you really cannot use the item and then claim a change of mind.


  • Options
    #8
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Dav010 wrote: »
    So you are saying you can use an item bought online, then return it as a change of mind/cooling off period? Where are you seeing this?

    I understand that you can examine it or in the case of an item of clothing, try it on, but you really cannot use the item and then claim a change of mind.

    Incorrect.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Options
    #9
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    Incorrect.
    Source?


  • Options
    #10
    Boom2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Boom2018


    A few mixed opinions on this.

    I don’t think it’s right for a €1000 phone to have a physical fault on the phone from the start and I’m now on my second return and haven’t been able to use the phone.


  • Options
    #11
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,993 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Boom2018 wrote: »
    A few mixed opinions on this.

    I don’t think it’s right for a €1000 phone to have a physical fault on the phone from the start and I’m now on my second return and haven’t been able to use the phone.

    Your confusing issues. You have a faulty phone and need to use the repair process to get one of the 3 Rs. You are trying to use the 14 day cooling off period which is not what you need to resolve your issue.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Boom2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Boom2018


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Your confusing issues. You have a faulty phone and need to use the repair process to get one of the 3 Rs. You are trying to use the 14 day cooling off period which is not what you need to resolve your issue.

    Well to look at it another way, I inspected the goods, found it to not be of merchantable quality and wanted to return it under the cooling off period. Does the cooling off period not cover this?


  • Options
    #13
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,993 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Boom2018 wrote: »
    Well to look at it another way, I inspected the goods, found it to not be of merchantable quality and wanted to return it under the cooling off period. Does the cooling off period not cover this?

    No. The cooling off period is I don't want this item and generally it can't have been used.

    You have a faulty item and need to follow that procedure, especially since the cooling off T&Cs have been posted in this thread which means that you can't return it using the cooling off period.


  • Options
    #14
    Xterminator
    Registered Users Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    Hi Boom

    you have 3 sets of right or 3 avenues you could take to resolve the issue.

    the sale of goods and supply act, Virgin's T's&C's and the manufacturer's warranty. Dont confuse them.

    if VM were offering an unconditional refund of course that would be the ideal avenue, but its not, and someone pasted the relevant parts above so i wont rehash that.

    https://www.virginmedia.ie/pdf/Mobile/mobile-handset-terms-and-conditions.pdf

    under sale of goods and supply act your are entitled to one of the 3'rs (and you have been offered one of the 3r's)

    or you could use manufacturer warranty, where you would probably have got a replacement handset of same model.

    they are your rights. But you have no automatic right to a full refund for faulty hardware. It may seem harsh, but you made assumptions about the cooling off period, and you were wrong. it is more about cancelling the monthy contract itself than handset returns.


  • Options
    #15
    Boom2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Boom2018


    Thanks everyone for the replies. It really helps clear up the misunderstanding I had of the issue.

    What I’m annoyed about is I (probably foolishly) purchased a new phone elsewhere when I was told I’d receive a refund.

    Two different agents on two occasions told me I’d receive a refund once the device was returned and fault confirmed. Now I’m being told I won’t receive a refund so will have to sell one phone at a loss to me.


  • Options
    #16
    RossieMan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,766 ✭✭✭RossieMan


    Boom2018 wrote:
    Two different agents on two occasions told me I’d receive a refund once the device was returned and fault confirmed. Now I’m being told I won’t receive a refund so will have to sell one phone at a loss to me.


    Have they been able to confirm a fault? Is there an actual fault with the phone? What is it?

    If there's no fault, you have no right to a refund I'm afraid.

    Some of the posters here are hilarious, they disagree but offer no sources for their information.


  • Options
    #17
    Murt10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭Murt10


    Virgin Media. Don't get me going.

    By far and away the absolutely worst customer service I have ever experienced, and the problem is still not sorted.

    I ported my number over from Vodafone a month ago, just before going abroad, and I am still without data service. It's after costing me a fortune. I ended up missing a ferry and having to pay for a new booking It's also costing me a fortune buying foreign sim cards so that I can have mobile data.

    Don't mean to hijack the thread, just warning you, there's no such thing as having too low expectations for the service from Virgin Media.

    My advice would be to send the phone back to Virgin Media and run. They are the worst bunch of cowboys you will ever come across


  • Options
    #18
    Boom2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Boom2018


    RossieMan wrote: »
    Have they been able to confirm a fault? Is there an actual fault with the phone? What is it?

    If there's no fault, you have no right to a refund I'm afraid.

    Some of the posters here are hilarious, they disagree but offer no sources for their information.

    No they haven’t confirmed a fault yet. When I received the phone back from them the docket mentioned they performed a software update.

    There is a small rubber seal going around the phone (I can only presume this is for the water protection, not 100% sure though) and it was coming away from the frame.

    The wireless charging also didn’t seem to be working. Though I didn’t look too much into this once I noticed the rubber seal.


  • Options
    #19
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,042 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Surely if a product if faulty upon first receipt you are entitled to a refund not a repair, if I paid money for item A brand new then my expectations are brand new, an immediate repair should be considered reflection of a brand new item

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Options
    #20
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,042 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    From the Consumer Rights Website, OP it sounds like these problems are there from outset, pretty clear below....

    Reject item – Full refund
    If you agreed to buy something and it simply does not work from the outset, then you are entitled to reject the goods and get a refund from the seller. Examples include a new washing machine which fills with water but does not spin or drain, or a new TV set which the audio doesn’t work on. In both of these examples, the consumer has discovered a major problem/fault with the item as soon as they go to use it for the first time. In the shop they agreed to buy it, but clearly there is something wrong with the one they were given. The consumer has not “accepted” the item – they brought the item home but it does not do what it said it would and the consumer had the right to reject it. They can return it to the shop and demand a full refund. This will terminate the contract they had for the item with the seller.
    Repair
    If you start using the item for some time then it is deemed that you have accepted the item. But if you discover a fault then you are entitled to have the item repaired or replaced free of charge – provided you did not cause the damage. If the fault occurs within the first 6 months of owning the item, it is accepted that the fault was there when you bought it. In general, the seller can offer to repair the item first. This should be a permanent repair and the problem should not reoccur. If the same fault occurs again, then you should be entitled to a replacement or refund. If you are not happy with the retailer’s offer to repair the item, you can say no – but if you do this, you may have to use the Small Claims process if you want to take the matter further.
    Remember, the retailer may charge you for the repair if you have been responsible for the damage to the product.
    Replacement
    If it is impossible to repair the item, or if it is more convenient than repairing it, then the seller may replace it for you. For example, if you bought a laptop and it overheated, causing significant damage to itself, it may be very difficult or even impossible for the seller to have the laptop fixed for you, so they may offer to replace it instead. If you opt for a replacement, it should be the same as the item you bought, or of similar quality and price. You should not have to pay extra for a replacement and should be given the difference in price if the replacement costs less than the item you originally bought.

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Options
    #21
    RossieMan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,766 ✭✭✭RossieMan


    Boom2018 wrote:
    No they haven’t confirmed a fault yet. When I received the phone back from them the docket mentioned they performed a software update.


    Why would they do a software update if it's a hardware issue? A seal? What phone is it?

    This story sounds so farfetched. It's sounds like a change of mind and you're coming up with different excuses to give it back.

    You've no right to which of the 3 Rs you receive. They can refund, replace or repair.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    RossieMan wrote: »
    Why would they do a software update if it's a hardware issue? A seal? What phone is it?

    This story sounds so farfetched. It's sounds like a change of mind and you're coming up with different excuses to give it back.

    You've no right to which of the 3 Rs you receive. They can refund, replace or repair.

    They can indeed choose one of the three R's.

    However if the device is less than 6 months old when the fault occurs and they offer a repair they get one chance and must repair, if the fault exists after this attempt to repair demand a replacement.

    However if the fault occurs within the first 6 months If the fault occurs within the first 6 months of owning the item, it is accepted that the fault was there when you bought it. In general, the seller can offer to repair the item first. This should be a permanent repair and the problem should not reoccur
    https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/faulty-goods/


    OP if they repaired and returned and the fault remains ( and was not caused by you) demand a replacement under your consumer rights.


  • Options
    #23
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,042 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    They can indeed choose one of the three R's.

    However if the device is less than 6 months old when the fault occurs and they offer a repair they get one chance and must repair, if the fault exists after this attempt to repair demand a replacement.

    However if the fault occurs within the first 6 months If the fault occurs within the first 6 months of owning the item, it is accepted that the fault was there when you bought it. In general, the seller can offer to repair the item first. This should be a permanent repair and the problem should not reoccur
    https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/faulty-goods/


    OP if they repaired and returned and the fault remains ( and was not caused by you) demand a replacement under your consumer rights.

    In this scenario the consumer can demand a refund which trumps a replacement

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Options
    #24
    Boom2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Boom2018


    RossieMan wrote: »
    Why would they do a software update if it's a hardware issue? A seal? What phone is it?

    This story sounds so farfetched. It's sounds like a change of mind and you're coming up with different excuses to give it back.

    You've no right to which of the 3 Rs you receive. They can refund, replace or repair.

    I don’t know why they did a software update. Could be because I mentioned the wireless charging wasn’t working. Or maybe it’s standard to do when a phone is sent in? I’m not sure.

    What about the story seems farfetched? And how am I coming up with different excuses? Surely if I had a change of mind I would have just said that and not brought the hassle of a fault into it.

    The main reason is the rubber around the frame of the phone coming away from the body of the phone. That’s my main complaint and has been from the start. I’ve photos showing this and I’ve since seen a few other complaints about it online, so it’s not a once off.

    The wireless charging not working was mentioned in passing and as I said I didn’t go into this too much because the physical fault was my main concern.


  • Options
    #25
    Gooser14
    Registered Users Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    Provided you didn't complete the online purchase in a bricks & mortar store (click & collect) then you should have been able to cancel your order within 14 days of receipt of the phone. This is covered by an EU Distance Selling Directive (Shopping From Home). See attached links:

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/distance_selling.html

    https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-online/your-rights-online/


  • Options
    #26
    Mike3549
    Registered Users Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Mike3549


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Gooser14 wrote: »
    Provided you didn't complete the online purchase in a bricks & mortar store (click & collect) then you should have been able to cancel your order within 14 days of receipt of the phone. This is covered by an EU Distance Selling Directive (Shopping From Home). See attached links:

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/distance_selling.html

    https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-online/your-rights-online/

    I don’t think I he issue is the op’s entitlement to return the goods under distance selling directive, it is how he/she did it with the required vendor labelling sent to the email provided by the purchaser. No doubt they will argue the return label proves it was returned by the person it was sold to under change of mind entitlement rather than a third party.
    I think you got a bit mixed up between 2 similar threads.


  • Options
    #27
    Cerco
    Registered Users Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭Cerco


    RossieMan wrote: »
    Why would they do a software update if it's a hardware issue? A seal? What phone is it?

    This story sounds so farfetched. It's sounds like a change of mind and you're coming up with different excuses to give it back.

    You've no right to which of the 3 Rs you receive. They can refund, replace or repair.

    A software update is not unusual on electronic products. Enhancements, bug fixes etc are continuously evolving. So any updates after product is shipped from manufacturer are offered to end customers via an update.
    Software or more precisely firmware controls hardware. Very understandable.


Advertisement