Energy infrastructure

marno21

https://www.radiokerry.ie/news/shannon-lng-awarded-state-funding-to-provide-electricity-to-the-grid-pending-planning-approval-325518

Apogee

ESB video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxym0AsTVVU

SSE applying for an investigative foreshore licence for a potential 1GW windfarm off Tarbert:

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/sse-renewables-exploring-new-wind-farm-off-kerry-coast-42419910.html

Apogee

SBP: Commercial LNG likely to be approved by Gov

https://mobile.twitter.com/DanielTMurray/status/1644995161636712449

timmyntc

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/04/08/national/politics-diplomacy/g7-nuclear-energy-promotion/

G7 policy shifting toward the N word in order to develop a more independent, reliable and greener energy grid.

Will it prompt any changes here? Who knows

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457938#Comment_120457938

That is a super weird article, it really doesn’t say anything, other then the G7 will be supportive of Japan pumping irradiated waste water from Fukushima into the sea! A frankly really terrible look for the Nuclear industry overall and certainly not good publicity of any kind.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457596#Comment_120457596

Was always going to happen given the realities of running a modern grid

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457938#Comment_120457938

Paddy will be the last to cop on - especially with that clown Ryan in charge of Energy policies

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460495#Comment_120460495

The clue was in the grandiose plan for storing lots of NG instead of hydrogen.

bk

Lads, this has always largely been the plan!

By 2030, we get to 70 to 80% of electricity generated by renewables, with the last 20 to 30% being fossil fuels, mostly gas.

This will mostly be the case until 2050, by which time we need to have tackled that last 20 to 30%. Ideally over that period of 2030 to 2050, we will be gradually moving to green hydrogen, more storage, biogas, CCS, etc.

The only new thing here is a greater emphasise on security of supply due to the fall out of the Ukraine War.

I think it is very obvious that we need a gas storage facility, Kinsale should have never been closed! However the question if we need a LNG import facility or not is far more questionable, given the existing interconnectors to the UK.

Again I think it needs to be emphasised that the conversation around energy has changed over the last year. Over a year ago, it was just about decarbonsing electricity supply. It is still that, however now there is also an emphasise on security of supply too.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463390#Comment_120463390

Won't Corrib have run out by 2030 and could it be used for storage?

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460748#Comment_120460748

Storing NG will be a huge step towards our 2030 targets of 80% emissions reduction. The storage capacity would be in the order of global lithium battery production over the last decade. Terrawatt-hours. Gigawatt-months.

Storing hydrogen is one way of meeting our 2050 targets.

That's 30 years to transition.

Hydrogen technology isn't new. Coal gas is roughly 50% hydrogen and we've been using it for ages. "Dublin Gas, as an entity, dates back further than living memory, having been founded in the first half of the 19th century by Daniel O'Connell."

Other hydrogen carriers might be possible as energy to fuel processes improve. Ammonia isn't energy efficient to produce, but is very easy to store and use as a liquid fuel for shipping and trains. We used to send train loads of the stuff through Dublin.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463416#Comment_120463416

Yes, while the above article talks about LNG, the security of supply review seems to be putting forward multiple options which include:

• Paying Corrib to actually leave gas in the ground as an emergency reserve, rather then them running it dry. I suspect in time this would be upgraded to actual storage too, depending on what happens with Kinsale and other projects.
• Reopen Kinsale as a gas storage facility.

Actually there are like almost a dozen different options they are considering, including a second interconnector to France, a big biomass plant, another pumped hydro facility, etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464366#Comment_120464366

including a second interconnector to France, a big biomass plant, another pumped hydro facility, etc.

All 3 of those are happening or in various stages of development.

The interconnector is due to begin construction

I know of 1 biogas plant happening near Gort. There are probably others

Silvermines is the pumped hydro location. Was supposed to go for planning approval last year, no idea what the delay is

getoutadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464800#Comment_120464800

Hard to understand the delay on Silvermines. They probably screwed up the EIB application for co funding. Similar delay with the GRAZE Mitchelstown biogas plant. Don't rush yourselves...

bk

"The interconnector is due to begin construction"

FYI the proposal seems to be for a second interconnector to France, in addition to the Celtic Interconnector which is to begin construction soon.

You are right, the pumped hydro appears to be Silvermines. I'm not sure if the Biogas is Gort or additional plant/s.

BTW The plan for LNG under the consultation, was to put a floating LNG FSRU in place, fill it, but not actually use it. It would only be used in an emergency, like if the gas interconectors to the UK went down. Other then that, it wouldn't be used day to day for LNG importantion, instead we would continue to import over the interconnectors from the UK.

Markcheese

Just having the connection point for a floating LNG plant would be fine for a local/ national crisis , but not much use for a Europe wide gas crisis ( like the current one ) .. if every European country is competing to get (a) floating regasification ships (b) ships to transport the gas (c) contracts for liquid natural gas .

But If we have a decent level of storage as well , it may be enough ..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468278#Comment_120468278

Is there a legit proposal from the relevant players for a second one? I know there was a report from some group saying that we should do another one but I haven't seen anything more than that.

bk

"Just having the connection point for a floating LNG plant would be fine for a local/ national crisis , but not much use for a Europe wide gas crisis ( like the current one ) .. if every European country is competing to get (a) floating regasification ships (b) ships to transport the gas (c) contracts for liquid natural gas .

But If we have a decent level of storage as well , it may be enough .."

I was thinking the same myself. A European wide emergency like the current Ukraine one is unlikely to happen again. Europe is quickly diverserifying away from Russia now, with multiple suppliers and multiple entry points.

The most likely emergency is that something happens to the gas interconnectors or the extremely unlikely situation that the British decide to cut off supply. In which case it would become an EU priority to move one of the FSRU's to Ireland and get supply here.

Hiring a FSRU at the moment would be very hard/expensive given the current demand for them, but in say 5 or 6 years there should be a glut of FSRU's on the market, as the Germans, etc. are planning to build large fixed LNG facilities to replace the FSRU's they are currently rushing to use. Plus new gas pipelines from other locations.

"Is there a legit proposal from the relevant players for a second one? I know there was a report from some group saying that we should do another one but I haven't seen anything more than that"

I don't think it matters either way. If the government were to decide to go this route, then I'm certain they can make it happen by working with the folks who are building the Celtic Interconnector or another supplier.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468604#Comment_120468604

I don't think it matters either way. If the government were to decide to go this route, then I'm certain they can make it happen by working with the folks who are building the Celtic Interconnector or another supplier.

Oh no doubt and more interconnectors are definitely a good thing, was just wondering if there were announcements by Eirgrid/govt etc that I'd missed

bk

"Oh no doubt and more interconnectors are definitely a good thing, was just wondering if there were announcements by Eirgrid/govt etc that I'd missed"

Interconnectors are the type of project that only start to move forward, if they are first green lighted by the government. More so for interconnectors, given you need the agreement of two countries.

323

Agree, for years believe interconnectors are a good part of the mix.

Have not seen any announcements by Eirgrid/govt either but seen in industry news that contract was awarded to Nexans last year.

https://www.offshore-energy.biz/with-celtic-interconnector-deal-in-the-bag-nexans-tucks-important-milestone-under-its-belt/

Shallow end shore approach route engineering and UXO survey begins in the next week or so on the Irish side first. So looks like progressing.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472655#Comment_120472655

10 years from feasibility study to (planned) operational. Would those timescales be shorter for a 2nd interconnector?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472722#Comment_120472722

Most of that time is political and more to do with if the grid actually requires it or not. If the political will is there and the grid needs it, it likely would be built FAR quicker.

marno21

Ireland is highly dependent on gas for a wide variety of reasons and our gas supply has a single point of failure (Moffat Interconnector).

In the world of 2019, we would have been fine depending on the status quo. But imo the world has changed too much to be that reliant on a single point of failure. Diversified supply is becoming more and more important

While we may not be NATO members or militarily aligned, we are now host to a number of strategic manufacturing facilities owned by foreign (mainly US) companies. It's naive to think we're immune to attacks (of various natures) in an increasingly multipolar world and we need to plan accordingly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472857#Comment_120472857

While we may not be NATO members or militarily aligned, we are now host to a number of strategic manufacturing facilities owned by foreign (mainly US) companies. It's naive to think we're immune to attacks (of various natures) in an increasingly multipolar world and we need to plan accordingly.

Indeed and this has always been the strategy i.e. Eggs in one basket

It's why it makes sense for wind, solar, pumped hydro, hydrogen production etc, all of which will allow us to be self sufficient and export excess.

The sooner we are self reliant the better

marno21

It's why it makes sense for wind, solar, pumped hydro, hydrogen production etc, all of which will allow us to be self sufficient and export excess.

They are all wonderful technologies and one day hopefully we will rely on them but we can't rely on them in the short/medium term for energy security. If we could the NDP wouldn't be proposing 2GW of additional gas powered generation.

We need to put lots of eggs in the gas basket for the next 15-30 years which will allow us to phase out the dirtier stuff like coal and oil where possible.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473570#Comment_120473570

Well, yeah

The plan is 80% renewable by 2030, and 100% by 2050

Gas was always planned to be a part of the transition plans, nothing new there. As we come closer to 2050 that "gas" will become hydrogen

Oil is pretty much gone from our generation with only Tarbert left and thats not got long left and Moneypoint is the only coal facility. Both of these are flagged for transitioning over to more sustainable generation sources and they will end up with gas/hydrogen and are marked as landing points for offshore generation sources which will plug into the grid at those locations

Sam Russell

I think that there will be a role for domestic generation and storage.

Solar PV is an obvious starting point for now because it has become cheap enough recently, and it is relatively straight forward. Add a 10k battery (or more) and it will go a long way to allowing the average house to be largely self sufficient in the summer time. [Assuming that an appropriate roof is available - about 50% of homes have that.] Current estimates suggest a 7 year payback.

Add commercial properties (inc farm buildings) and another tranche of consumers are covered. Again, it looks like a commercial payback would be possible.

I saw a roadside PV panel on top of a road sign with the addition of a small wind turbine which made me think - would small scale wind generation be possible on domestic buildings? How big would a 1 kw wind turbine be?

We do not need one huge solution to sustainable generation or one approach like wind, or hydrogen, but many many small ones will add up to do enough.

The Ember Global Electricity Review 2023 has been released and its predicting that 2023 marks the peak of energy generation for fossil fuel sources globally.

https://ember-climate.org/insights/research/global-electricity-review-2023

It also comes with a VERY HANDY tool for looking at national grid make-ups across the globe

https://ember-climate.org/data/data-tools/data-explorer/

Here's a few snapshots of Ireland

It also allows for comparison of grids, in the examples below I put Ireland up against China, Germany, UK & USA to compare the % of wind & solar in the respective grids

The report itself is 150+ pages and I've only gone through some of it so far but it paints a sad picture for fossil fuels in terms of power generation. 80% of new generation added in 2022 was from wind & solar

Its the same across the globe, with all regions heading the same way, albeit at different rates of change

The projections into the future show, in terms of clean sources, that wind & solar will lead the way

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120473698#Comment_120473698

I'm not sure about your payback estimate if you include a battery. I think it blows the payback period to hell. Panels on their own are about 6/7 years, obviously less when electric prices are higher

I saw a roadside PV panel on top of a road sign with the addition of a small wind turbine which made me think - would small scale wind generation be possible on domestic buildings? How big would a 1 kw wind turbine be?

Domestic wind generation doesn't make sense for the most part due to a number of factors

• small size
• vibration if mounted on the house
• too much air disturbance from surrounding buildings

That being said, if you live rurally and have some space, they can make sense if they are ground mounted and you have the space around the to eliminate turbulence issues

Matt Ferrell did a good video on the various issues

https://youtu.be/nPvTH7Siclg