Energy infrastructure

1huge1

bk wrote: »

Remeber the goal is 70% renewables by 2030, not 100%, that is very doable.

Whats the most up to date info on our our electricity generation mix, I'm after finding that renewables contributed 33% in 2018 (SEAI), is there a 2020 figure available?

Presumably households who sell power back to the grid (e.g. solar) is included in the numbers?

Sam Russell

1huge1 wrote: »

Whats the most up to date info on our our electricity generation mix, I'm after finding that renewables contributed 33% in 2018 (SEAI), is there a 2020 figure available?

Presumably households who sell power back to the grid (e.g. solar) is included in the numbers?

Can households sell power back to the grid? I thought they could only donate it.

We need smart meters and a feed-in tariff.

ted1

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Will higher winds be an issue for stability of the floating platform?

Are the floating platforms deep?

you know oil drilling platforms float using the same way

Capt'n Midnight

1huge1 wrote: »

Whats the most up to date info on our our electricity generation mix, I'm after finding that renewables contributed 33% in 2018 (SEAI), is there a 2020 figure available?

Presumably households who sell power back to the grid (e.g. solar) is included in the numbers?

live info

https://www.eirgridgroup.com/how-the-grid-works/system-information/
https://www.smartgriddashboard.com/#all

IIRC you might as well divert extra energy to heat water here because of the fees and rates and connection charges , unless you have a very large setup.

bk

1huge1 wrote: »

Whats the most up to date info on our our electricity generation mix, I'm after finding that renewables contributed 33% in 2018 (SEAI), is there a 2020 figure available?

A pretty impressive 43% in 2020:
http://www.eirgridgroup.com/newsroom/electricity-consumption-f/index.xml

1huge1

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

live info

https://www.eirgridgroup.com/how-the-grid-works/system-information/
https://www.smartgriddashboard.com/#all

IIRC you might as well divert extra energy to heat water here because of the fees and rates and connection charges , unless you have a very large setup.

bk wrote: »

A pretty impressive 43% in 2020:
http://www.eirgridgroup.com/newsroom/electricity-consumption-f/index.xml

Thanks both, great progress being made. Those links are fascinating, today in particular, renewables (wind primarily) are responsible for the majority of energy production today, at certain points reaching 85% of demand. Incredible

Sam Russell wrote: »

Can households sell power back to the grid? I thought they could only donate it.

We need smart meters and a feed-in tariff.

Perhaps I am jumping a few years into the future, I thought it was already the case but perhaps not in Ireland.

ted1

1huge1 wrote: »

Thanks both, great progress being made. Those links are fascinating, today in particular, renewables (wind primarily) are responsible for the majority of energy production today, at certain points reaching 85% of demand. Incredible



Perhaps I am jumping a few years into the future, I thought it was already the case but perhaps not in Ireland.

Feed in tariffs will be here later this year. For some reason the government decided giving grants for battery storage was more beneficial...

Sam Russell

ted1 wrote: »

Feed in tariffs will be here later this year. For some reason the government decided giving grants for battery storage was more beneficial...

Both are needed. There is no point in feeding in if the grid is in surplus.

Markcheese

ted1 wrote: »

Feed in tariffs will be here later this year. For some reason the government decided giving grants for battery storage was more beneficial...

I always thought grant aiding householders to produce and use their own power ( panels and batteries ) ,was a bit more sensible than exporting electricity at a uneconomicaly high feed in tarrif and then buying back electricity at a relatively cheap price to run your home ...

Pete_Cavan

The Commission for Regulation of Utilities has just published a tender for Consultancy Support for Development of a Smart Meter Data Access Code;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/189617/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

From the accompanying document;

1.1 The Contracting Authority invites Tenders in response to this RFT from Tenderers for the provision of the Services as described in Appendix 1 to this RFT. In summary, the Services comprise consultancy support for the development of a smart meter data access code for the Irish retail electricity market. Smart meters for electricity are currently being rolled out across Ireland. These meters can collect and transmit granular information on electricity consumption which will enable the distribution system operator to provide better system services and suppliers to offer smart services to customers like time-of-use tariffs. The smart meter data access code will be a key instrument for the Contracting Authority in setting the rules around access to smart meter data of the final customer by the distribution system operator, the suppliers, and other eligible parties. The Contracting Authority is seeking consultancy support for drafting this code and engaging with stakeholders regarding the delivery of this project. The open procedure is being used for this Competition.

cnocbui

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The Commission for Regulation of Utilities has just published a tender for Consultancy Support for Development of a Smart Meter Data Access Code;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/189617/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

From the accompanying document;

Nothing in that mentions or applies to a feed in tarrif that I can see, it spefically addresses consumption, with no mention of production.

dubhthach

Ireland’s first green hydrogen facility is planned for Cork Harbour
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/companies/arid-40297886.html

Plans have been announced for Ireland's first green hydrogen facility that will be located in Cork Harbour.

Green energy firm EI-H2 intends to seek planning permission for a 50MW electrolysis plant in Aghada, County Cork, which when operational will remove 63,000 tonnes of carbon emissions annually from Irish industry and power generation.

Upon completion, the site will be one of the biggest green energy facilities of its kind in the world. EI-H2 is to commence an intensive round of pre-planning discussions with Cork County Council, the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications and other parties ahead of the formal lodging of planning permission later this year.

...

1huge1

From my understanding, one of the big benefits of this is that it will remove some excess production from the system, e.g. wind turbines running during the night when demand is low?

dubhthach

1huge1 wrote: »

From my understanding, one of the big benefits of this is that it will remove some excess production from the system, e.g. wind turbines running during the night when demand is low?

Well it makes wind farms more economically viable form an investment point of view. At the moment if you finance a Wind farm you have to factor into the financing costs that there's gonna be set amount of time when even though you can produce electricity that's there is no demand from the grid.

In such scenarios if there are alternative means to soak up usage (Hydrogen production) that hedges this issue.

Also of course it helps to decarbonise other sectors such as for example Ammonia production which would help with decarbonising Fertiliser production (remove need to use Natural Gas)



"Green Ammonia" is been pushed as potential way to decarbonise global Shipping as well. See articles here:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/marine/why-the-shipping-industry-is-betting-big-on-ammonia



Potentially if 'Green Hydrogen'/'Green Ammonia' production is economically viable in Ireland it could result in a possibility of been an energy exporter in that regard.

There's also work going on with using Ammonia in powerstations, which could be useful for peaker plants (replacing Natural Gas plants). Mitsubishi Power have developed a 40MW Ammonia powered Turbine.

https://www.powermag.com/mitsubishi-power-developing-100-ammonia-capable-gas-turbine/

If you look at recent planning permissions for Data Centers that require onsite power generation they are generally in this class. For example the recent permission that Microsoft got out in Grangecastle:
http://www.sdublincoco.ie/Planning/Details?p=1&r=SD21A%2F0042&l=grange%20castle%20data%20centres&prop=data%20centre&regref=SD21A%2F0042

Of course there is also work ongoing with converting Natural Gas plants to purely Hydrogen, like for example this one in the Netherlands:

1. Mitsubishi Hitachi Power Systems (MHPS) is supporting the Carbon-Free Gas Power project at Vattenfall’s Magnum power plant in the Netherlands. The project aims to convert one of the three 440-MW combined cycle gas turbines to operate on 100% hydrogen, which will significantly reduce CO2 emissions.

Having something like that as an option would allow us to hedge power generation to cover scenarios when wind production is low (we also need to ramp us Solar for same reason)

1huge1

Thats very interesting regarding the financing side of wind energy projects, in theory, they should be even more viable now that their ability to generate income will be higher. Will hopefully lead to a further acceleration of their roll out.

This hydrogen facility really helps on a number of fronts. Delighted to see it.

ted1

Sam Russell wrote: »

Both are needed. There is no point in feeding in if the grid is in surplus.

Battery grants cost the state, feed in tariffs would be a much cheaper place to start.

There really isn’t enough rooftop solar that would cause an excess and affect the system load

ted1

Markcheese wrote: »

I always thought grant aiding householders to produce and use their own power ( panels and batteries ) ,was a bit more sensible than exporting electricity at a uneconomicaly high feed in tarrif and then buying back electricity at a relatively cheap price to run your home ...

To recover the battery grand of 600 would take a long time on FIT. Aldo grants just increase prices.

Who mentioned an uneconomical high FIT? 5-8c/ KWh would do.

Capt'n Midnight

An electricity sink can act like spinning reserve.

When you cut the power , there's more electricity for everyone else. But without extra capital or O&M costs.

ted1

If there’s a power cut. The batteries are disconnected yo the grid. Individual batteries are much more expensive than large centralised ones. So if you want reserve grants for domestic batteries isn’t the way to go about it

Apogee

Irish Times wrote:

Scandinavian energy giant Statkraft will seek backing for six Irish wind farms in the next round of the State’s green energy support scheme. Statkraft, one of several big players lured here by the scheme, plans to seek support for six wind farms around the Republic that will generate a total of 320 mega-watts of power at full capacity.

Donal O’Sullivan, Statkraft head of development, said all six had planning permission and offers of connection to the national electricity grid.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/scandinavian-energy-giant-statkraft-to-seek-backing-for-six-irish-wind-farms-1.4576188

antoinolachtnai

ted1 wrote: »

If there’s a power cut. The batteries are disconnected yo the grid. Individual batteries are much more expensive than large centralised ones. So if you want reserve grants for domestic batteries isn’t the way to go about it

Complicated and important topic.

1. What you say also applies about the cost of domestic batteries also applies to domestic PV.

2. Distributed batteries can potentially play a role that large centralised batteries cannot, ie they can potentially provide support to the local low voltage grid at times of peak demand.

Sam Russell

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Complicated and important topic.

1. What you say also applies about the cost of domestic batteries also applies to domestic PV.

2. Distributed batteries can potentially play a role that large centralised batteries cannot, ie they can potentially provide support to the local low voltage grid at times of peak demand.

I have been thinking if I could benefit from PV and Battery set plus solar water heating. I have a fairly extensive southern roof at the correct angle.

My thoughts.

I use, say 10KWh per day, so a battery of 10 KWh would provide a full day, but maybe 20 KWh might be better as the additional cost would be not a huge exra cost PV capable of 4 KWh might be enough to get the battery charged during the day, and low cost grid electricity during the night.

If there is a shortage on the grid, the smart meter will sell my battery energy at a good price, and I can buy it back at a cheaper rate.

Could that work. [Figures are guesses]

Markcheese

1huge1 wrote: »

From my understanding, one of the big benefits of this is that it will remove some excess production from the system, e.g. wind turbines running during the night when demand is low?

How likely is this to go ahead - it's an odd site for a start - not very big , right on the road to the refinery , tennis club on one side , being over looked by a lot of very very expensive houses ,
The guy is putting his money where his mouth is though , spent a lot buying the site - apparently has bought a very big site on the other side of the harbour as well , and very into offshore wind ..

1huge1

Markcheese wrote: »

How likely is this to go ahead - it's an odd site for a start - not very big , right on the road to the refinery , tennis club on one side , being over looked by a lot of very very expensive houses ,
The guy is putting his money where his mouth is though , spent a lot buying the site - apparently has bought a very big site on the other side of the harbour as well , and very into offshore wind ..

All good points, but this does seem to have strong government support.

MAULBROOK

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have been thinking if I could benefit from PV and Battery set plus solar water heating. I have a fairly extensive southern roof at the correct angle.

My thoughts.

I use, say 10KWh per day, so a battery of 10 KWh would provide a full day, but maybe 20 KWh might be better as the additional cost would be not a huge exra cost PV capable of 4 KWh might be enough to get the battery charged during the day, and low cost grid electricity during the night.

If there is a shortage on the grid, the smart meter will sell my battery energy at a good price, and I can buy it back at a cheaper rate.

Could that work. [Figures are guesses]

You don't need 10kw of battery to cover the full day, a good solar pv system will cover the day (march to October) and a 5 to 7kw battery to cover the night.
Winter time charge the battery at night time rate to be discharged during the day.
With the feed in tariff coming in soon you can sell the excess.

With your roof it would be no brainer to check it out. Its the best thing I have done from a home improvement point of view.

cnocbui

MAULBROOK wrote: »

You don't need 10kw of battery to cover the full day, a good solar pv system will cover the day (march to October) and a 5 to 7kw battery to cover the night.
Winter time charge the battery at night time rate to be discharged during the day.
With the feed in tariff coming in soon you can sell the excess.

With your roof it would be no brainer to check it out. Its the best thing I have done from a home improvement point of view.

What is the break even payback period?

MAULBROOK

cnocbui wrote: »

What is the break even payback period?

Lots of variables. How much you use how many in the house, do you have a EV. and so on, for me 6 years on my set up.
power prices are only going on way.

Sam Russell

Actually, pa back is important, but security of supply is important as well.

If solar water heating, PV electricity, EV car, feed in tariff coupled with smart meters - all these coupled with intelligent meters - so energy can be sold back to the grid at a profit.

Sounds good to me.

MAULBROOK

Sam Russell wrote: »

Actually, pa back is important, but security of supply is important as well.

If solar water heating, PV electricity, EV car, feed in tariff coupled with smart meters - all these coupled with intelligent meters - so energy can be sold back to the grid at a profit.

Sounds good to me.

PM sent

Markcheese

Sam Russell wrote: »

Actually, pa back is important, but security of supply is important as well.

If solar water heating, PV electricity, EV car, feed in tariff coupled with smart meters - all these coupled with intelligent meters - so energy can be sold back to the grid at a profit.

Sounds good to me.

I assume if we as nation move to more evs , and more electric heating ,( water and space ),and then use smart metering the grid utilization should increase -which should help keep electricity costs down , even with more use of hydrogen ,and batteries ect
( And I know there'll be massive grid investment, but spread out over the whole population and time )