Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

fitz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I’m not sure why everyone is so surprised at Larmour quality

He had a dodgy game v Toulouse last season in terms of positioning but Tomane was new to system and got hammered in air v Argentina when none of the wings gave him a hand

Apart from that he has always played decent, chopping position from one week to next was never going to help....some people saying he wasn’t a 15

He is a class act , always has been

I don't disagree, he's always been exciting, but my point was that I think he's rounding out his game impressively. Nailed on starting full back for the 6 Nations based on current form imo.

Shefwedfan

fitz wrote: »

I don't disagree, he's always been exciting, but my point was that I think he's rounding out his game impressively. Nailed on starting full back for the 6 Nations based on current form imo.

Yes he has rounded but as I have been banging on he needs experience.


His breakout season was a year too early, the plan was for him to get a few games off the bench in Pro14 and a strong year in the A's. Next thing he was playing in the Grand Slam decider in Twickers....that was a huge jump in very little time


People then seemed to decide it was good to compare him to a 10 year vet and complain about some parts of his game.



If he stays fit this should be his big season. So far it is looking good

whatawaster

Larmour's decision making has come on leaps and bounds. Last season, he was trying to step everyone, sometimes 2 or 3 times in one move. He's picking his moments now, and he looks much more effective.

errlloyd

whatawaster wrote: »

Larmour's decision making has come on leaps and bounds. Last season, he was trying to step everyone, sometimes 2 or 3 times in one move. He's picking his moments now, and he looks much more effective.

The classic over eager Larmour was that semi final against Scarlets. Sexton was interviewed after the game, and he (was smiling while he) described a moment where someone had made a break down the blindside and we had quick ball about 15 m out from their line. There was a quite a small blindside with Larmour and about 7 Scarlets defenders on it. Anyway, ball goes to Sexton on the openside, who passes it back to Larmour who was apparently screaming he was in an overlap, only to end up marked by about half the scarlets team.

Anyway, it feels like he now knows when to go. And him and Lowe seem to be the best of mates.

arsebiscuits1

Thoughts on the game.

It was a very big performance with a lot of lads stepping up.

I thought Tracy was brilliant in his start. His darts were absolutely on the money. Hit every jumper at the apex. He has really impressed me this season with his all around game. He brings a very good energy off the bench and that translated into this start. Scrum struggled a bit but I think Healy was more at fault/ hard done by depending on your POV.

Furlong rewound the years and gave one of the classic Tadgh performances. Bouncing fellas and line breaking and laying the law down at ruck time. Great to see. Nothing warms the cockles more than a tighthead making a clean break.

Second row pairing of Ryan and Fardy brings an engine that few can match. Good to see Ryan continuing to call the lineouts and making some very good decisions there. Ballsy to call to the back from 5 out but he backed his hooker and he delivered.

Doris the pick of the pack for me. Carried hard, tackled harder and worked himself to the bone out there. Used in the lineout a lot to very good effect. Seems to be a real strength of his. His Rugby IQ just seems through the roof. As much as I like Max we can see now that Doris is very much in the driving seat.

Lukes passing and kicking was much improved this week. Best performance I'd seen in a while.

Jordan Larmour was simply taking the piss out there at times. They couldn't lay a hand on him. He left Biggar for dead which was heartening to see. He was doing a wonderful Kearney impression with how imperious he was in the air and his distribution was fantastic.

There was a moment where Larmour comes from 30 metres to get on first reciever on the short side to release Lowe. Unfortunately Lowe only had Ruddock and Tracy supporting him. If that was a back or even a VDF or Doris that would have been a score all day. But encouraging to see Jordan building on his first receiver chops.

Finally, Naiyaravoro is a total liability to have on the team. Everyone likes to big up how he breaks tackles and offloads but James Lowe does it much better and actually looks interested in defence. This fella phoned it in the last 2 weeks and Leinster never looked troubled by him. Give me a hard working winger like Dave Kearney over a fella who'd lose in a race to a tectonic plate every day of the week

Zzippy

errlloyd wrote: »

The classic over eager Larmour was that semi final against Scarlets. Sexton was interviewed after the game, and he (was smiling while he) described a moment where someone had made a break down the blindside and we had quick ball about 15 m out from their line. There was a quite a small blindside with Larmour and about 7 Scarlets defenders on it. Anyway, ball goes to Sexton on the openside, who passes it back to Larmour who was apparently screaming he was in an overlap, only to end up marked by about half the scarlets team.

Anyway, it feels like he now knows when to go. And him and Lowe seem to be the best of mates.

The way he steps defenders he probably thinks 7 v 1 is an overlap!

Quin_Dub

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Thoughts on the game.

It was a very big performance with a lot of lads stepping up.

I thought Tracy was brilliant in his start. His darts were absolutely on the money. Hit every jumper at the apex. He has really impressed me this season with his all around game. He brings a very good energy off the bench and that translated into this start. Scrum struggled a bit but I think Healy was more at fault/ hard done by depending on your POV.

Furlong rewound the years and gave one of the classic Tadgh performances. Bouncing fellas and line breaking and laying the law down at ruck time. Great to see. Nothing warms the cockles more than a tighthead making a clean break.

Second row pairing of Ryan and Fardy brings an engine that few can match. Good to see Ryan continuing to call the lineouts and making some very good decisions there. Ballsy to call to the back from 5 out but he backed his hooker and he delivered.

Doris the pick of the pack for me. Carried hard, tackled harder and worked himself to the bone out there. Used in the lineout a lot to very good effect. Seems to be a real strength of his. His Rugby IQ just seems through the roof. As much as I like Max we can see now that Doris is very much in the driving seat.

Lukes passing and kicking was much improved this week. Best performance I'd seen in a while.

Jordan Larmour was simply taking the piss out there at times. They couldn't lay a hand on him. He left Biggar for dead which was heartening to see. He was doing a wonderful Kearney impression with how imperious he was in the air and his distribution was fantastic.

There was a moment where Larmour comes from 30 metres to get on first reciever on the short side to release Lowe. Unfortunately Lowe only had Ruddock and Tracy supporting him. If that was a back or even a VDF or Doris that would have been a score all day. But encouraging to see Jordan building on his first receiver chops.

Finally, Naiyaravoro is a total liability to have on the team. Everyone likes to big up how he breaks tackles and offloads but James Lowe does it much better and actually looks interested in defence. This fella phoned it in the last 2 weeks and Leinster never looked troubled by him. Give me a hard working winger like Dave Kearney over a fella who'd lose in a race to a tectonic plate every day of the week

Totally agree here - All the "Supersize" wingers are the same , a few eye catching bursts where they bounce a few defenders , but the rest of the game they are a waste of a jersey.

As you say , I'll take a regular sized winger that actually puts in a full shift all day long.

kingofthekong

Few thoughts from the game:

Pack immense again, VDF outstanding as always, Ruddock powerful, Doris really looking like a player ready to pick up a green jersey - he has a great reading of the game consistently made the gain line and had some great pressure relieving runs of the base of the scrum. Whats also impressed me is his physicality in defense which is great to see he matches the carries with the dirty work in equal measure,

Also thought Deegan really added an aggression and work rate off the bench which was great to see. I think Penny, Connors, Doris and Deegan will be in rotation in leinsters backrow for the next 10 years, hope we can keep them all and who knows who else will be coming up through the age grades.

Furlong was solid but nothing exceptional still hasnt managed to get back to his world beater form of a couple years ago, but still one of the most important players in the team ,

Tracy - got stuck in to everything, not the most physically gifted but is game and gives 100% every time,

Healy - seems to get his body position horribly wrong and can get driven back badly on occasion - however makes up for it with the odd exceptional run

Ryan doing the dirty stuff as usual, always plays well

Ross Byrne making consistant progress and maturing nicely into a very good 10, if he stayed on longer he was in line for man of the match, some lovely tempo, handling, touch finds and defense

Henshaw - still not the player he was - hopefully with more gametime can get back in form, still solid performance

Ringrose - enough said, MOM, quality performance, one error in defence but some ridiculous skill at times

Kearney - really impressed with him last couple games has nullified their biggest attacking threat in nayarovoro and made him a non factor, abrassive carries - always makes metres, no mistakes and finished well

Larmour - ive always been a believer but now he starting to convince the wider public he can play at the highest level at 15, did the flash we all know he can do and also matched it with high ball takes, great defensive positioning and very nice passing/distribution

Lowe - such an asset in attack as always, has that game breaking ability when he gets the ball

Frawley - what a luxury it is to have a 3rd choice flyhalf come on and look so composed and confident.

Exclamation Marc

So Munster will be without all their World Cup players for the Leinster game at the end of December due to them requiring two consecutive weekends off.

Will certainly be some challenge for Munster given how stretched they are as is and how well Leinster play without its WC players.

arsebiscuits1

kingofthekong wrote: »

Few thoughts from the game:

Furlong was solid but nothing exceptional still hasnt managed to get back to his world beater form of a couple years ago, but still one of the most important players in the team ,

I think that's harsh on Tadgh. One instance he beat 2 players for his linebreak and another he spun away from 2 tacklers when he was the one out runner. That is an exceptionally difficult thing to do.

Best performance out of Tadgh in a long while I reckon and a real reminder to everyone that while Porter is the real deal, there are still highs he needs to hit to dethrone Furlong

FrannoFan

So much to be positive about.

We have back up nearly everywhere.

I'd worry about an injury to Healy. Not sure Byrne or Dooley are capable of the big scrum days.

Henshaw looks a key cog as well. Tomane or cob or O'Loughlin look a bit off top end Europe.

I'd put Sexton in that category as well just because he can be so good rather than a slight on Byrne but his importance is diminishing

Dubinusa

I'm really looking forward to the interpro's! I know most top players are rested, but I love to watch the players of the future. There's a lot on here who don't rate these fixtures, but where else do we get to see the young up and comers?
I think some of these lads are really coming through. J.O.B looks the business and is really kicking on. C.O.B will get a shot and he too, is very impressive. I think Frawley will start a couple of these fixtures with the younger Byrne on the bench.
In the pack, we get to see Baird. Dowling ang hopefully Dunne. A chance for them to impress. And of course Penny and Connors! It's an opportunity to see what Aungier can do and Milne also. Leo has no qualms about giving the lads game time.
It's not only beneficial for us, but the other provinces also. Win or lose, Leinster will get to rest the top players and be ready for the next block of Euros!

Granny15

Dubinusa wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to the interpro's! I know most top players are rested, but I love to watch the players of the future. There's a lot on here who don't rate these fixtures, but where else do we get to see the young up and comers?
I think some of these lads are really coming through. J.O.B looks the business and is really kicking on. C.O.B will get a shot and he too, is very impressive. I think Frawley will start a couple of these fixtures with the younger Byrne on the bench.
In the pack, we get to see Baird. Dowling ang hopefully Dunne. A chance for them to impress. And of course Penny and Connors! It's an opportunity to see what Aungier can do and Milne also. Leo has no qualms about giving the lads game time.
It's not only beneficial for us, but the other provinces also. Win or lose, Leinster will get to rest the top players and be ready for the next block of Euros!

I'd also like to see Turner and Hawkshaw get a run out this season. That partnership worked very well for the U20's last season.

It's been a good two weeks for Leinster, I thought the game away in Northampton was very impressive.

I was less impressed at the weekend, not that we didn't show up and play well - but Northampton were utter dross and never in the game. They didn't completely give up as a team but plenty of individuals in their 23 were on the plane home before kick off.

I know he is unpopular on here but Biggar was really good and anything of note from Northampton generally came from him. He'll be starting at 10 for Wales in the six nations.

It will be interesting to see what team Ulster show up with this weekend. They are contenders for both competitions this year and rightly so - they need to start showing up for these away interpro's and I think we'll see a solid enough travelling team this weekend.

antietam1

FrannoFan wrote: »

So much to be positive about.

We have back up nearly everywhere.

I'd worry about an injury to Healy. Not sure Byrne or Dooley are capable of the big scrum days.

Henshaw looks a key cog as well. Tomane or cob or O'Loughlin look a bit off top end Europe.

I'd put Sexton in that category as well just because he can be so good rather than a slight on Byrne but his importance is diminishing

If no Healy wasn't Bent originally a loosehead? desperate break glass measure I know.

Granny15

FrannoFan wrote: »

So much to be positive about.

We have back up nearly everywhere.

I'd worry about an injury to Healy. Not sure Byrne or Dooley are capable of the big scrum days.

Henshaw looks a key cog as well. Tomane or cob or O'Loughlin look a bit off top end Europe.

I'd put Sexton in that category as well just because he can be so good rather than a slight on Byrne but his importance is diminishing

I wouldn't say COB is that far away from Henshaw - maybe Robbies reading ability and effort swing it at the moment but COB has pace where Henshaw looks a yard or two off for Champions Cup/International level.

I'm not saying COB is international level with that statement just that he has the raw materials to surpass Robbie if he gets everything right in his game. Plus he has an attacking game which surpass Robbies at the moment. It's hard to say as the opposition hasn't been as good but I'd say it will be a very interesting battle over the coming seasons.

Squidgy Black

antietam1 wrote: »

If no Healy wasn't Bent originally a loosehead? desperate break glass measure I know.

Porter too. But I'd still rather throw Dooley or Byrne rather than having a TH starting at LH.

Shefwedfan

A few people are forgetting Henshaw is only 26. As he has been around so long a lot of people expect him to be nearly 30.

For two seasons now he hasn't had a run of games. I think the last time was prior to the 6 nations 2018. He would pick up injury, rush back to fitness and then pick up another injury. Similar to Rob kearney a few years back

He should be rotated now as much as possible to keep him fit and get game time. I wouldn't expect him to be firing on all cylinders yet. If he can stay fit from now till 6 nations he will probably peak just as he is heading into camp.

With COB and tomane he has very capable back up to give him the rest

antietam1

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Porter too. But I'd still rather throw Dooley or Byrne rather than having a TH starting at LH.

From lh to th is tough, not so much the other way around.
Anyway who can keep the refs happy these days, I thought Dooley would go all the way I expect little from him now.

errlloyd

Shefwedfan wrote: »

With COB and tomane he has very capable back up to give him the rest

Agreed, but Tomane is out for 8 weeks. So really it's just COB then we're down to Hackshaw or ROL / Frawley slighly out of position. Though ROL has been an adequate centre.

Dubinusa

For the weekend
1 Dooley
2 Cronin
3. Bent
4. Molony
5. Dowling
6. Murphy
7. Connors
8. Deegan
9. O'Sullivan
10. Frawley
11. Kelleher
12 C.O.B
13. J.O.B
14. Byrne
15. Keenan

16. Byrne
17. Milne
18. Aungier
19. Baird
20. Penny
21. Osborn
22. H. Byrne
23. Gavin Mullin.

Shefwedfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

For the weekend
1 Dooley
2 Cronin
3. Bent
4. Molony
5. Dowling
6. Murphy
7. Connors
8. Deegan
9. O'Sullivan
10. Frawley
11. Kelleher
12 C.O.B
13. J.O.B
14. Byrne
15. Keenan

16. Byrne
17. Milne
18. Aungier
19. Baird
20. Penny
21. Osborn
22. H. Byrne
23. Gavin Mullin.

I doubt that team will get run out


JGP I would expect to get a start. Maybe Fardy to help out the pack.....

Squidgy Black

Just looking back over the squad announcement for the Ireland camp, it's still mind blowing the production line we have of young players.

Doris, Deegan, Kelleher, Connors, Ryan, Larmour and Porter are all 23 or under and are part of an international training squad and likely to be a part of the 6 Nations squad.

molloyjh

Didnt realise that Molony was injured and out for the game this week. Fardy will probably start as Toner had been involved in every 23 since Dragons. Dowling to partner him with Baird on the bench?

Think Molony is expected back next week.

Dubinusa

It's a great chance to give Baird or Dowling a run out too!
I think Ulster will send a strong side though. Think we could be turned over. At the same time, the experience for the younger boys will be beneficial and I would expect them to be competitive.
We do have a cushion at the top of the league. So resting up would probably be the best way forward. The young lads will be chomping at the bit! Several of them have been very good this far. If R.O.L has recovered from injury, he will probably play?
The following match in Thomond is not as important so we might see an 'A' side down there.

Shefwedfan

Was just listening to ROG on off them ball and asked for player from 2010-2020. He said Healy, I would have said Sexton

It was very interesting and thinking about it he is maybe right, to play at that level in front row for this duration is a serious achievement for Healy

You just forget how good he is because he is always their and playing well

whatawaster

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Was just listening to ROG on off them ball and asked for player from 2010-2020. He said Healy, I would have said Sexton

It was very interesting and thinking about it he is maybe right, to play at that level in front row for this duration is a serious achievement for Healy

You just forget how good he is because he is always their and playing well

He did have a few years with a serious drop-off in form though.

Sexton probably the one who was most consistently brilliant over the decade.

Rigor Mortis

He had a drop in form that co-incided with Jack McGrath playing brilliantly. He didnt have a serious drop for more than a few months.

Sexton has had a number of drops in form. I think Healy was a great shout for this to be honest.

durthacht

whatawaster wrote: »

He did have a few years with a serious drop-off in form though.

Sexton probably the one who was most consistently brilliant over the decade.

That was due to the injury which almost forced him to retire. To fight back from that injury is impressive.

I would say Sexton too, but Healy is almost taken for granted.

Buer

The interview with Healy on Fitzgerald's podcast was a massive eye opener. The bloke was playing injured for a long, long time with nerve damage. He went on holiday having signed his retirement papers but some movement returned and he gave it another shot.

His level of performance and consistency has been world class when fit and available. He's unfortunate that his injuries and issues have coincided with major moments such as Lions tours otherwise he'd be thought of as a likely candidate for best loosehead in the world over the past decade.