Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

KBurke85

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Deegan has 10 mins of rugby, Doris has 3 in last few weeks


They need to keep them match fit so I would expect at least 1 if not both would be released to get some mins

Deegan has been released

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2020/02/10/ireland-players-released-back-to-provinces-to-get-game-time/

Clegg

A lot of Leinster lads have been released. I imagine Athey want Kelleher to get more game time to be prepared for England.

https://twitter.com/rugby_ie/status/1226848658026565632?s=19

Richie_Rich89

It's interesting how Henshaw looks like a smart footballer with good awareness at 13 compared to looking very limited at 12. You don't really see any footballing ability at all from him at inside centre. He's just there for his physical quality and sound defence. But then at outside centre he's better than Rinrose in some respects.

Kinda chrystalises my view that you won't see the best of him for Leinster in a centre partership with Garry Ringrose.

I'd say a pairing of 12. COB, 13.Henshaw would ask a lot of questions of defenders.

Sangre

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's interesting how Henshaw looks like a smart footballer with good awareness at 13 compared to looking very limited at 12. You don't really see any footballing ability at all from him at inside centre. He's just there for his physical quality and sound defence. But then at outside centre he's better than Rinrose in some respects.

Kinda chrystalises my view that you won't see the best of him for Leinster in a centre partership with Garry Ringrose.

I'd say a pairing of 12. COB, 13.Henshaw would ask a lot of questions of defenders.

Henshaw had great game but lets try and remember he was playing against someone who was on their first international start.

Richie_Rich89

Sangre wrote: »

Henshaw had great game but lets try and remember he was playing against someone who was on their first international start.

Yeah, fair enough. Tompkins is also usually a 12 for Saracens, I think?

Clegg

It was great seeing Henshaw making so many metres after contact and then getting the offload away. He's a very talented player when he gets that bot of extra space and leeway to show it. He's more of a gainline player when he's at 12. He'll never get the chance to show that consistently though. Ringrose is just better.

I'd like to see a centre partner of Tomane and Henshaw for a few games. The offloading would be gas.

Quin_Dub

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Yeah, fair enough. Tompkins is also usually a 12 for Saracens, I think?

Who also doesn't start a lot of the time for them either..

Henshaw had a great game no doubt , probably his best in a good while.. him getting a run of games under his belt at that performance level is what matters for now..

He's been a bit brittle over the last couple of seasons unfortunately.

durthacht

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's interesting how Henshaw looks like a smart footballer with good awareness at 13 compared to looking very limited at 12. You don't really see any footballing ability at all from him at inside centre. He's just there for his physical quality and sound defence. But then at outside centre he's better than Rinrose in some respects.

Kinda chrystalises my view that you won't see the best of him for Leinster in a centre partership with Garry Ringrose.

I'd say a pairing of 12. COB, 13.Henshaw would ask a lot of questions of defenders.

Steady on. Ringrose is the most complete center in Ireland IMO.

Exclamation Marc

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'd say a pairing of 12. COB, 13.Henshaw would ask a lot of questions of defenders.

I think the first question they'd ask is how lucky were they to not have to face Garry Ringrose that day

I think COB is very good and could be a great player but he's far from the finished product and has less than 10 full games to his name at senior level.

Dubinusa

Henshaw was good! Albeit against a fairly poor player.
Right now Henshaw is going well and he should finish out the 6nations in pole position. Ring6should be rested imo!
Going to need him against Sarries!

Shefwedfan

Ringrose is one of the few players in the Ireland and Leinster team you could put into the World Class bracket.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ringrose is one of the few players in the Ireland and Leinster team you could put into the World Class bracket.

I'd even go as far as to assume he's been approached by Toulouse

The Parish King

Based on what Lancaster was saying to the press earlier today it sounds like Conan will be back after the 6Ns for the two games in SA which may put him back in the frame for the Sarries game. Thankfully Doris and Deegan’s form mean he’ll need to win the jersey off both of them, so the QF may ultimately come too soon for him.

In other positive back row news, it also sounds like Leavy could be back for a couple Pro 14 games after the QF. I think that’d be a great achievement for him if he gets back this season, and I’m sure he’d much prefer to hit that milestone rather than waiting a further 3 months due to the off season (assuming he is back to full fitness and not rushed back for the sake of it!).

crisco10

Someone else said it already but there is A lot to be said for leavy getting some game time to “test” himself but then having a summer off and strong preseason to work on any weakness identified in the test.

Returning in September would mean a long season straight after his return after 18 months.

Shefwedfan

crisco10 wrote: »

Someone else said it already but there is A lot to be said for leavy getting some game time to “test” himself but then having a summer off and strong preseason to work on any weakness identified in the test.

Returning in September would mean a long season straight after his return after 18 months.

He can test himself in AIL or in Leinster A.



At the end of the season the Pro14 gets fairly competitive as seen in previous years. He would be better working his way back into the team with a few games at a lower level and then having a full preseason.



Throwing him into a Pro14 game with a team potentially fighing for a play off position or a HC position might not be the best.

crisco10

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He can test himself in AIL or in Leinster A.



At the end of the season the Pro14 gets fairly competitive as seen in previous years. He would be better working his way back into the team with a few games at a lower level and then having a full preseason.



Throwing him into a Pro14 game with a team potentially fighing for a play off position or a HC position might not be the best.

Can work either way at end of season. Can also have dead rubbers with nothing to play for.

Interested Observer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At the end of the season the Pro14 gets fairly competitive as seen in previous years. He would be better working his way back into the team with a few games at a lower level and then having a full preseason.

What is this based on, how do you know what would be better for him to get back to playing? And it'll be the exact opposite of competitive at the end of the season when Leinster have won the conference with X games to spare.

sydthebeat

Interested Observer wrote: »

What is this based on, how do you know what would be better for him to get back to playing? And it'll be the exact opposite of competitive at the end of the season when Leinster have won the conference with X games to spare.

i think sheff means, without speaking for him, is that the opposition usually have something to play for, and thus the games are quite competitive and hard hitting.... which leads the numbers of losses we ship after we have qualified.

Shefwedfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

What is this based on, how do you know what would be better for him to get back to playing? And it'll be the exact opposite of competitive at the end of the season when Leinster have won the conference with X games to spare.

Towards the end of the season you will have clubs fighting for qualification into play offs, or even trying to get in the HC etc


Also the teams, the majority, will be out of Europe so they will be playing full strength teams.


So the quality of the Pro14 increases compared to games earlier in season when teams have no internationals available etc.


Look at results over last few years with the likes of Benetton winning against Leinster at RDS.



As Leavy has been out for so long I am not sure why people would want to rush him back in. Better to build his match fitness maybe at a lower level than potentially with a team fighting to get into the HC



This is just a discussion. The physio will know best of course and the player himself.

Dubinusa

I'd like to see him prep for next season. Give him the chance to be fully fit and firing! It's a massive injury and recovery and I hope he recovers fully. He's a class player. Getting him back healthy would be like signing an international!
If he does make a full recovery we are loaded!
VDF
Leavy
Conners
Penny
Good lord! Wtf? It's not fair! Jesus wept!
So, who leaves?

AbusesToilets

Dubinusa wrote: »

I'd like to see him prep for next season. Give him the chance to be fully fit and firing! It's a massive injury and recovery and I hope he recovers fully. He's a class player. Getting him back healthy would be like signing an international!
If he does make a full recovery we are loaded!
VDF
Leavy
Conners
Penny
Good lord! Wtf? It's not fair! Jesus wept!
So, who leaves?

Ruddock probably

Dubinusa

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Ruddock probably

Noooo. Say it ain't so!

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Ruddock probably

Ruddock is a 6


I would expect one of Leavy, VDF, Penney, Connors will move on.

Scottmactom

Leavys mobility will be reduced afte rhis injury. Expect him to focus on 6.

But asking who leaves when he hasn't even played a game.. Relax people sure love speculating about Leinster players.

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ruddock is a 6


I would expect one of Leavy, VDF, Penney, Connors will move on.

I was more thinking he's likely to leave given his treatment by the Irish camp. Why stick around when you get **** on repeatedly. Message couldn't be clearer as to how he's thought of my the Irish coaches.

arsebiscuits1

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I was more thinking he's likely to leave given his treatment by the Irish camp. Why stick around when you get **** on repeatedly. Message couldn't be clearer as to how he's thought of my the Irish coaches.

Selection to the National squad isn't exactly a birthright....

The coaches have deemed other players ahead of him. He was undoubtedly told of their thought process.

I don't necessarily agree - I think Ruddock is playing better that most this season.


But it's a bit much to say he constantly **** on by coaches. And it's not clear what they think of him. For all we know he needs to only work on something small and he's a shoe in.

And FWIW - if the only reason a player is willing to play at Leinster is so they can get picked for the national team - they can find another club

Serbian

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I was more thinking he's likely to leave given his treatment by the Irish camp. Why stick around when you get **** on repeatedly. Message couldn't be clearer as to how he's thought of my the Irish coaches.

This is nonsense. You're not privy to the conversations that Ruddock has had with the current or previous Irish coach, so you can't make a judgement around how he has been treated by them.

He's on The Left Wing podcast this week and addresses this exact point — he was involved in the larger Irish camp in December, he has had phone calls with Farrell where he has been given specific feedback around why he was not selected and has met with both Cullen and Lancaster to build a plan to address his shortcomings. He even covers some of the areas he personally thinks haven't been up to scratch this season despite looking like he's playing well overall.

Whether you disagree with the fact that he's not involved is up to you, but you're extrapolating a lot of information that isn't there from a simple decision to not select someone.

Dave_The_Sheep

Unable to make the Cheetah's game due to work. Two, possibly threre, tickets going free for anyone who wants them. Just PM me. Only condition is that you've posted in the Rugby forum before today. South Stand unreserved.

(I realise these aren't exactly hard to come by, but still - figured I'd offer to save someone having to buy the)

[GONE]

AbusesToilets

Serbian wrote: »

This is nonsense. You're not privy to the conversations that Ruddock has had with the current or previous Irish coach, so you can't make a judgement around how he has been treated by them.

He's on The Left Wing podcast this week and addresses this exact point — he was involved in the larger Irish camp in December, he has had phone calls with Farrell where he has been given specific feedback around why he was not selected and has met with both Cullen and Lancaster to build a plan to address his shortcomings. He even covers some of the areas he personally thinks haven't been up to scratch this season despite looking like he's playing well overall.

Whether you disagree with the fact that he's not involved is up to you, but you're extrapolating a lot of information that isn't there from a simple decision to not select someone.

I take your point that he was given work ons, but you hardly imagine He's apt to publicly criticize the coaches. I don't think anybody can look at the situation over the last couple of seasons and say that he hasn't been hard done by, when you compare his level of play relative to those who are getting selected ahead of him.

Serbian

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I take your point that he was given work ons, but you hardly imagine He's apt to publicly criticize the coaches. I don't think anybody can look at the situation over the last couple of seasons and say that he hasn't been hard done by, when you compare his level of play relative to those who are getting selected ahead of him.

Yeah, that's fair. He's clearly going to be very disappointed with not being involved because he is good enough, but the parts we just don't know are why he's not involved, if he's satisfied that his exclusion is just and whether he feels that he could potentially be included in the future if whatever's missing is worked on and improves.

Even just looking at the last two games, I don't think Ruddock would have had the impact in the line-out or the breakdown that O'Mahony has brought at 6 — maybe that's why he's not in? We just don't know.