Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Scottmactom · 10-05-2020 11:17am

Buer wrote: »

Just for fun, all time non-Irish XV. Those who qualified for Ireland included. And yes, the backrow is a struggle. Honourable mentiones to Ollie Le Roux, Gopperth and JGP (coin toss with Whitaker almost).

1. Heinke VDM
2. Richardt Struss
3. Stan Wright
4. Brad Thorn
5. Scott Fardy
6. Nathan Hines
7. Cameron Jowitt
8. Rocky Elsom
9. Chris Whitaker
10. David Holwell
11. James Lowe
12. Felipe Contepomi
13. Ben Te'o
14. Isa Nacewa
15. Zane Kirchner

1. Heinke VDM
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Stan Wright
4. Brad Thorn
5. Nathan Hines
6. Scott Fardy
7. Keith Gleeson
8. Rocky Elsom
9. Chris Whitaker
10. Jimmy Gopperth
11. James Lowe
12. Felipe Contepomi
13. Ben Te'o
14. Isa Nacewa
15. Zane Kirchner

Buer · 10-05-2020 11:33am

I didn't include Gleeson for obvious reasons!

Clegg · 10-05-2020 11:45am

A unit of Fardy, Gleeson and Elsom in the prime would stand up against most test sides.

pickarooney · 10-05-2020 11:45am

I can't believe D'Arcy scored more tries than BOD for Leinster. Nugget's record is insane!

Bus Boy · 10-05-2020 11:59am

pickarooney wrote: »

I can't believe D'Arcy scored more tries than BOD for Leinster. Nugget's record is insane!

And most caps too...

Buer · 10-05-2020 12:12pm

Clegg wrote: »

A unit of Fardy, Gleeson and Elsom in the prime would stand up against most test sides.

It would but Gleeson is from Dublin so not really part of a non-Irish side.

Scottmactom · 10-05-2020 12:22pm

Buer wrote: »

It would but Gleeson is from Dublin so not really part of a non-Irish side.

born in dublin, but is he from there? I dunno.. he grew up in Oz and moved backed there after his career ended.

Rigor Mortis · 10-05-2020 12:34pm

What about Joey and Jamie :-)

Buer · 10-05-2020 12:36pm

Scottmactom wrote: »

born in dublin, but is he from there? I dunno.. he grew up in Oz and moved backed there after his career ended.

Yeah, he was born in Dublin and attended St. Michael's as a kid before his family moved to Australia. He went back there because his family business was in Sydney which he took over. I've never heard anyone ever refer to him as a foreign player.

Scottmactom · 10-05-2020 12:37pm

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

What about Joey and Jamie :-)

both grew up in Ireland.

Scottmactom · 10-05-2020 12:43pm

Likely Leinster Academy next season:

Prop
Roman Salanoa(22) Y2
Tom Clarkson(20) Y2
Marcus Hanan(20) Y1
Charlie Ward(20) Y1

Hooker
John McKee(20) Y1
Bobby Sheehan(20) Y1

Lock
Charlie Ryan(21) Y2
Brian Deeny(20) Y2
Joe McCarthy(19) Y1

Openside
Martin Moloney(20) Y2
Mark Hernan(20) Y1

Backrow
Sean O'Brien(20) Y1
Alex Soroka(19) Y1

Scrumhalf
Paddy Patterson(21) Y3

Outhalf
David Hawkshaw(21) Y3

Centre
Liam Turner(21) Y2

Back Three
Michael Silvester(22) Y3
Aaron O'Sullivan(20) Y3
Andrew Smith(20) Y1

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2020 12:47pm

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'm still unsure what Barnes called out that sounded exactly like advantage (to Clermont) just before the winning penalty for Leinster. Confused me then, still confuses me now. Have the game on my HD and watch it every now and then.

If ever there was a semi-final that seemed like the actual final (at the risk of annoying people), it was that game.

I watched the 2009 semi final against Munster the other day and the standard of reffing was terrible. I was never sure what was a penalty and it seemed so random at times.

The standard had improved greatly since then.

Clegg · 10-05-2020 12:58pm

I've always felt that D'Arcy was underrated He was just as prodigious a talent as BOD imo. We saw how good he was at 13 when BOD was injured back in the mid 00's. I think if D'Arcy were given a prolonged run at 13 he'd be the best in the world there.

They were our two best centres by miles and it was a case of getting them in somewhere whether it be 12 or 13. And no way was BOD ever losing the outside centre jersey.

AdamD · 10-05-2020 3:45pm

Clegg wrote: »

I've always felt that D'Arcy was underrated He was just as prodigious a talent as BOD imo. We saw how good he was at 13 when BOD was injured back in the mid 00's. I think if D'Arcy were given a prolonged run at 13 he'd be the best in the world there.

They were our two best centres by miles and it was a case of getting them in somewhere whether it be 12 or 13. And no way was BOD ever losing the outside centre jersey.

Sorry, I love D'Arcy and all but he wasn't close to O'Driscoll talent wise.

Buer · 10-05-2020 4:01pm

AdamD wrote: »

Sorry, I love D'Arcy and all but he wasn't close to O'Driscoll talent wise.

Eventually, no but at the start of their careers, there was more expected from D'Arcy than BOD. If he had been more dedicated and focused early in his career, he could have reached much greater heights.

The 2004 6N campaign from him was probably as good as any 6N from BOD given the team he did it in.

Dave_The_Sheep · 10-05-2020 4:12pm

2003/2004, D'Arcy was unplayable at times. He was awesome.

Richie_Rich89 · 10-05-2020 5:10pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Defence all that season was incredible. I remember a game, not sure who it was agaisnt. In RDS...coming up to half time and Leinster was on our try line for nearly 5 mins, they where getting battered but ended up turning over the ball and went in at half time

The whole place celebrated like we just scored an incredible try.....

Gone is those days, no kids, in on train first thing in morning....few beers and then a bag of cans and into the terrarce early and you would be up the back and could see f**k all.....then out on beer for the night

Bag of chip and taxi home then:p:p:p

Wouldn't agree about the defence being good. The tackles are good once the Clermont players reach them and there's obviously a lot of commitment but there's not much linespeed.

Passive defence cost Leinster big time in the league final that year. It was even more noticeable on that occasion. They were just waiting for the Ospreys to run at them. Chalk and cheese between that and Saracens' defence in the final last season.

Clegg · 10-05-2020 5:15pm

Leinster have recently posted their 5 best James Lowe trys. Some proper crackers there.

https://youtu.be/FyQUnnw2Ej8

Richie_Rich89 · 10-05-2020 5:18pm

Scottmactom wrote: »

we really dont have the same power in the current as we had in that team...

Most powerful team atm?

1. Porter
2. Kelleher
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Baird
6. Fardy/Murphy
7. Leavy
8. Conan
9. McGrath
10. Sexton
11. Lowe
12. C. O'Brien
13. Henshaw
14. D. Kearney
15. Jack Kelly

Kelly has looked pretty strong through contact with the 7s, even though he's down at only 86kg.

Salanoa's probably pretty powerful. Maybe Dan Sheehan too.

Shefwedfan · 10-05-2020 5:52pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Wouldn't agree about the defence being good. The tackles are good once the Clermont players reach them and there's obviously a lot of commitment but there's not much linespeed.

Passive defence cost Leinster big time in the league final that year. It was even more noticeable on that occasion. They were just waiting for the Ospreys to run at them. Chalk and cheese between that and Saracens' defence in the final last season.

It’s 8 years ago, of course defence is better now.....the likes of Farrell etc coming in changed the whole game

Richie_Rich89 · 10-05-2020 6:50pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It’s 8 years ago, of course defence is better now.....the likes of Farrell etc coming in changed the whole game

Even by the standards of the day the defence in the Pro12 Final that year was very passive, reactive instead of proactive.

Leinster and Ireland were probably behind the curve for a long time compared to developments in England and South Africa when it came to getting aggression into the defence.

In hindsight, the way that Crotty try was conceded at the death in 2013 should have been a wakeup call that Kiss's defence was way too passive. I'd love to know what would have happened in that attack if Matt O'Connor was the Ireland defence coach at the time. Passivity in defence was the single biggest factor in the loss to Argentina in the World Cup, I think.

AbusesToilets · 10-05-2020 7:01pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Even by the standards of the day the defence in the Pro12 Final that year was very passive, reactive instead of proactive.

Leinster and Ireland were probably behind the curve for a long time compared to developments in England and South Africa when it came to getting aggression into the defence.

In hindsight, the way that Crotty try was conceded at the death in 2013 should have been a wakeup call that Kiss's defence was way too passive. I'd love to know what would have happened in that attack if Matt O'Connor was the Ireland defence coach at the time. Passivity in defence was the single biggest factor in the loss to Argentina in the World Cup, I think.

Narrowness has been a consistent weakness too. Argentina were ruthless exploiting that.

Podge_irl · 10-05-2020 7:11pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Narrowness has been a consistent weakness too. Argentina were ruthless exploiting that.

Narrowness without an ability to slow the ball in midfield (mostly due to the absence of SOB, Payne and Sexton) was why we lost to Argentina. It wasn't because of "passive" defence. Kearney was consistently wildly isolated because Argentina were able to go around the defence by getting the ball to the wing super quickly.

molloyjh · 10-05-2020 8:49pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Narrowness without an ability to slow the ball in midfield (mostly due to the absence of SOB, Payne and Sexton) was why we lost to Argentina. It wasn't because of "passive" defence. Kearney was consistently wildly isolated because Argentina were able to go around the defence by getting the ball to the wing super quickly.

One of the tries came directly from the fact that the shooters in midfield were Best and Ross. Two of our slowest players. Defensive systems all have their strengths & weaknesses. If one key part fails (the midfield shooters in this case) then the system as a whole is in serious trouble.

Bridge93 · 10-05-2020 9:03pm

In fairness that 2012 final was a week after the European cup final and was played on an extremely hot day. I remember melting on the south terrace. They totally ran out of legs in the last 20

Shefwedfan · 10-05-2020 9:08pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

In fairness that 2012 final was a week after the European cup final and was played on an extremely hot day. I remember melting on the south terrace. They totally ran out of legs in the last 20

Wasnt that the day we lost Ross in the scrum as well and got hammered by Poite in the scrum....or maybe I am thinking of wrong final

Yes it was incredibly warm that day as well

El_Duderino 09 · 10-05-2020 10:26pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Most powerful team atm?

1. Porter
2. Kelleher
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Baird
6. Fardy/Murphy
7. Leavy
8. Conan
9. McGrath
10. Sexton
11. Lowe
12. C. O'Brien
13. Henshaw
14. D. Kearney
15. Jack Kelly

Kelly has looked pretty strong through contact with the 7s, even though he's down at only 86kg.

Salanoa's probably pretty powerful. Maybe Dan Sheehan too.

Fine with a lot of that but Leavy has to prove his ability to play after that horrific injury and rehab.

COB can't be in ahead of ringrose.

Jack Kelly can't be ahead of Larmour or even Hugo Keenan. Keenan's been solid this season.

Those lass might progress but they really can't be dropped into a strongest side right now.

Scottmactom · 11-05-2020 7:55am

Leinster players elsewhere XV:

1. Eric O'Sullivan(Templeogue)
2. Shane Delahunt(Kilkenny)
3. Martin Moore(Castleknock)
4. Alan O'Connor(Skerries RFC)
5. Gavin Thornbury(Blackrock)
6. Tadgh Beirne(Clongowes)
7. Sean O'Brien(Tullow RFC)
8. Jordi Murphy(Blackrock)
9. John Cooney(Gonzaga)
10. Ian Madigan(Blackrock)
11. Matt Healy(Gonzaga)
12. Noel Reid(St. Michaels)
13. Tom Farrell(Castleknock)
14. Andrew Conway(Blackrock)
15. Joey Carbery(Athy RFC-Blackrock)

pickarooney · 11-05-2020 9:11am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Fine with a lot of that but Leavy has to prove his ability to play after that horrific injury and rehab.

COB can't be in ahead of ringrose.

Jack Kelly can't be ahead of Larmour or even Hugo Keenan. Keenan's been solid this season.

Those lass might progress but they really can't be dropped into a strongest side right now.

Ringrose is a lot of things but raw power wouldn't be a ton attribute of his.

Richie_Rich89 · 11-05-2020 9:33pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Narrowness has been a consistent weakness too. Argentina were ruthless exploiting that.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Narrowness without an ability to slow the ball in midfield (mostly due to the absence of SOB, Payne and Sexton) was why we lost to Argentina. It wasn't because of "passive" defence. Kearney was consistently wildly isolated because Argentina were able to go around the defence by getting the ball to the wing super quickly.

I suppose they go hand-in-hand to some extent. Was it Ringrose a couple of years ago who said what they were trying to do under Farrell was get width in the defensive line so they could come up aggressively without fear of being beaten on the outside?

Anyway, you can't watch the endgame of the 2012 Wales 6N game where Wales marched 60m upfield before scoring the winning penalty or the Argentina quarter final or the 2013 All Blacks endgame and tell me that Ireland didn't employ a very passive defensive system. NZ got a lot of credit for going through all those phases without a mistake, but when the ball actually did go to deck where was the pressure from the Irish defence? Nowhere. That's where. Nonu was able to pick it up under no pressure like he was going for a stroll in the park. Even when NZ take the tap after McGrath is penalised the majority of the Ireland players retreat to the halfway line, giving them 12m instead of nine and a half.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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