Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Dave_The_Sheep

A-Train wrote: »

I’m in the same boat. Leinster and Liverpool fan and it’s heart breaking.

Now I know I’m the grand scheme of things in the current climate it doesn’t matter but still very frustrating as you say.

Bit less frustrating now, to be fair!

molloyjh

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That’s your opinion and your entitled to it

But you did post recently saying to drop henshaw out of the Leinster team and match day squad didn’t you? In favour of COB who hasnt got near international squad?

So which is it?

Its whichever suits ensuring he can apply some sort of logic to his default position, regardless of whether or not that remains consistent with anything he's said before. I'm still not sure why so many respond....

Shefwedfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Its whichever suits ensuring he can apply some sort of logic to his default position, regardless of whether or not that remains consistent with anything he's said before. I'm still not sure why so many respond....

Normally I don’t but I did find that interesting the obvious issue with the post

molloyjh

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Normally I don’t but I did find that interesting the obvious issue with the post

Its nothing new though. There isn't a coherent & consistent position here other than "Leinster born good, others bad". And the more people respond the more thisbowrspn will spew forth. If we all just ignore it then eventually it will go away. There's nothing to be gained from engaging.

A-Train

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Bit less frustrating now, to be fair!

Very much so.

Trojan

I think Leinster management & players are doing a fantastic job all things considered.

Delighted to see the extensions for Kearney & McFadden, and re-signing Fardy is awesome. He has enormous impact outside of the 80 minutes.

I'm happy for Adam Byrne, I think he has great potential - he's shown it at times.

Every team has been disrupted. I think Leinster will come through this better than many of their counterparts elsewhere.

Scottmactom

Bryan Byrne has signed for Bristol on a one-year deal.

FrannoFan

Scottmactom wrote: »

i'd say he is under pressure to get a senior contract.

Possibly. Tricky position. I often feel as fans we are inpatient with decision making positions at times. 9/10 can take a long time to develop. Cooney being a good example. Can have all the skills but that part of the game can take longer.

I think he's a better passer than O'Sullivan but O'Sullivan clearly has a lot that they like.

Scottmactom

FrannoFan wrote: »

Possibly. Tricky position. I often feel as fans we are inpatient with decision making positions at times. 9/10 can take a long time to develop. Cooney being a good example. Can have all the skills but that part of the game can take longer.

I think he's a better passer than O'Sullivan but O'Sullivan clearly has a lot that they like.

to be fair, Cooney at the same age was coming off the bench in the euro final.

But I agree, 9's need time to develop decision making etc. More AIL rugby the better IMO.

All 5 of leinster's contracted 9's are likely out of contract in June 2021, will all 5 be retained? Unlikely JGP/McGrath go anywhere, then there's probably 2 senior contracts between HOS, Osborne and Patterson.

Cormac Foley is also rumored to be in the academy, but we await confirmation of that.

arsebiscuits1

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Leinster have six senior second rows signed up for next season - Ryan, Toner, Fardy, Baird, Molony and Dunne. Take one of them away and of course keeping Dowling on becomes a more attractive option.

I agree that Charlie Ryan is likely to ultimately become a better lock (Dowling might be more suited to blindside in the long run) but Leinster still would need a certain number of options for the here and now.

No it doesn't :pac::pac:

You're acting like there is a concrete number of players we need for each position or unit where as this is emphatically not the case. It's not a one in one out system.

If Fardy left, Dowling would have left too and any minutes he might have gotten probably will have gone to Josh Murphy (a player who is bigger and has more starts than Dowling in the second row)

Also, if you agree that Dowling will be a better blindside, why are you lamenting we let him go? Should we have kept him in the hope he can force his way ahead of the 9 senior backrows we have on the book that would all start ahead of him?

Whoever our next big signing is, whenever they arrive, I can't wait to start looking for them to be dropped in favour of Clontarf U16's player of the month.

Actually very excited for the opportunity, if only we'd go and get anyone externally!

Scottmactom

Leinster could do worse than look at this young 9

arsebiscuits1

Scottmactom wrote: »

Leinster could do worse than look at this young 9

You don't see a step that good on a 9 too often. Very impressive.

I'd like to see more of his passing before I'd be forming a proper opinion on him though.

Seems to have a lovely pass from right to left but I'd like to see if he can mimic it the other way.

If he could get some of those breaks or even half breaks it's something that the Leinster team would absolutely thrive under. Our back row especially is so good at the support play in the tight

sydthebeat

LOL what was yer man at at 1:10

Scottmactom

Same age group as HOS and Patterson, would certainly be interesting even on a trial basis obviously he is looking for a contract.

Apparently he didn't get on with Ulster academy manager so is out in the wilderness up north.

Was expecting HOS to have that sort of breaking threat when he played 9, but then HOS doesn't play that quickly and make decision so quickly, which obviously comes with time at scrumhalf, which HOS has had little of given his age.

Or James Kenny from Ldowne.

FrannoFan

The Michael's SCT 9 from two years ago looked really good.
Any sign of him anywhere?

Scottmactom

FrannoFan wrote: »

The Michael's SCT 9 from two years ago looked really good.
Any sign of him anywhere?

Rob Gilsenan, he is under-20 in this upcoming season.. played some u20's for UCD this past year but was slowed by injury.

Not sure if he is involved with Leinster this summer, hopefully so as he is very talented.

FellasFellas

Scottmactom wrote: »

Leinster could do worse than look at this young 9

This guy looks great. James Kenny surely should be looked at, going well there a LFC. Cormac Foley has gone to Lansdowne, two very good 9's in that senior squad now. I think Foley is in the academy now as well.

Scottmactom

FellasFellas wrote: »

This guy looks great. James Kenny surely should be looked at, going well there a LFC. Cormac Foley has gone to Lansdowne, two very good 9's in that senior squad now. I think Foley is in the academy now as well.

rumour is that Foley joined academy last season alright, but unconfirmed.. odd to move to Lansdowne he will be doing well to get ahead of Kenny whose is quality and worth a look again by Leinster now he has stayed healthy.

Scottmactom

Breakdown of young 9's out of school:

Hugh O'Sullivan(U22/Belvedere/Clontarf) - 5'10, dev contract
Paddy Patterson(U22/Blackrock/UCD) - 5'8, academy contract
James Kenny(U22/Gonzaga/Lansdowne) - 6'0

Kenny was injured for most his u20/u21 seasons and didn't get a good change of proving his ability while in sub-academy. HOS joined academy straight from school, while Patterson snuck into academy after his u20 season after a season in sub-academy.

Cormac Foley(U21/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - 5'11, sub academy 19/20
Jack Connolly(U20/Gonzaga/DUFC) - 6'0, sub academy 19/20
Ben Murphy(U19/Pres Bray/Clontarf) - 5'10, sub academy 19/20

Foley promoted to academy, Connolly released and Murphy to do a 2nd year in sub-academy.

Rob Gilsenan(U19/St. Michaels/UCD) - 6'1
Will Reilly(U19/Portlaoise RFC/MU Barnhall) - 5'10
Matthew Cullen(U19/Blackrock)

Gilsenan missed irish u18's and leinster 19's with injury, not involved with sub academy last season. Reilly played ireland u18, but didn't play leinster 19's, was starting 9 for Barnhall last season and is in Leinster 20's squad for summer. Cullen played leinster 19's last summer.

Breakdown of notable 9's in school next season:

Conor Duggan(U19/Castleknock) - ire u18
Oisin Devitt(U19/Clongowes)
Michael Moloney(U19/Blackrock) - ire u18
Fintan Gunne(U18/St. Michaels)
Culann Carbery(U18/Athy RFC)

Gunne/Moloney were 9's for leinster schools last summer, Duggan and Devitt were standout 9's in cup. Moloney & Duggan were 9's in ireland u18 camp at christmas. Carbery was 9 for leinster u18 clubs, as a u17.

Of this years upcoming 20's I'd rate them as such:
Gilsenan
Murphy
Reilly
Cullen

Quin_Dub

Scottmactom wrote: »

Breakdown of young 9's out of school:

Hugh O'Sullivan(U22/Belvedere/Clontarf) - 5'10, dev contract
Paddy Patterson(U22/Blackrock/UCD) - 5'8, academy contract
James Kenny(U22/Gonzaga/Lansdowne) - 6'0

Cormac Foley(U21/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - 5'11, sub academy 19/20
Jack Connolly(U20/Gonzaga/DUFC) - 6'0, sub academy 19/20
Ben Murphy(U19/Pres Bray/Clontarf) - 5'10, sub academy 19/20

Rob Gilsenan(U19/St. Michaels/UCD) - 6'1
Will Reilly(U19/Portlaoise RFC/MU Barnhall) - 5'10
Matthew Cullen(U19/Blackrock)

Breakdown of notable 9's in school next season:

Conor Duggan(U19/Castleknock) - ire u18
Oisin Devitt(U19/Clongowes)
Michael Moloney(U19/Blackrock) - ire u18
Fintan Gunne(U18/St. Michaels)
Culann Carbery(U18/Athy RFC)

Younger brother I assume?

Scottmactom

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Younger brother I assume?

Yep.

arsebiscuits1

Is Ben Murphy still eligible for U20s this year?

Scottmactom

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Is Ben Murphy still eligible for U20s this year?

Yep, was an u19 for the 2020 U20 season.

The U20 9's for the upcoming 2021 U20 season, in order of talent IMO:

Rob Gilsenan
Ben Murphy
Will Reilly
Matthew Cullen

Shefwedfan

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Younger brother I assume?

Going to Munster?

jacothelad

Scottmactom wrote: »

Leinster could do worse than look at this young 9

It is crazy that he never got a fair shot with Ulster. He is generally regarded as a better player than Stewart but it is rumoured that his face didn't fit with one member of the Academy staff.

Dave_The_Sheep

That Toulouse - Leinster game is replayed this evening at 17.45 on some social media channels.

Details (?) ... If you call them details, here.

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That’s your opinion and your entitled to it

But you did post recently saying to drop henshaw out of the Leinster team and match day squad didn’t you? In favour of COB who hasnt got near international squad?

So which is it?

I don't think those two things contradict each other? You could have more than one player who's good enough to start or bench for the top side. I don't think that Henshaw isn't good enough for the Leinster first XXIII. But I do think he's really quite a limited 12 in attack. I can't really see him coming out with the soft hands under pressure COB used for Frawley's try at home to Treviso last season (the one with the Tomane dummy line) or for the pass to Ross Byrne before Lowe's linebreak in the build up to Porter's try down in Thomond last Christmas. I was making the point that O'Brien being much more of a natural in attack at inside centre would allow the team to play with more variety.

Richie_Rich89

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

No it doesn't :pac::pac:

You're acting like there is a concrete number of players we need for each position or unit where as this is emphatically not the case. It's not a one in one out system.

No, that's not the case. I'm making no absolute statements. I'm purely talking about probabilities. With Fardy on board you're looking at (I personally would have Murphy ahead of Ruddock and Connors ahead of van der Flier, but we'll leave that argument aside for now):

1st choice:
4. Ryan, 5. Toner, 6. Ruddock, 7. Leavy, 8. Doris; 19. Fardy, 20. Deegan

2nd choice:
4. Baird, 5. Molony, 6. Murphy, 7. van der Flier, 8. Conan; 19. Dunne, 20. Connors

3rd choice:
4. Charlie Ryan, 5. Oisin Dowling/Brian Deeny, 6. Martin Moloney/Oisin Dowling, 7. Penny, 8. Sean O'Brien?: 19. Brian Deeny/Alex Soroka, 20. Martin Moloney/Mark Hernan?

In the scenario Fardy left, you're looking at:

1st choice:
4. Ryan, 5. Toner, 6. Ruddock, 7. Leavy, 8. Doris; 19. Baird, 20. Deegan

2nd choice:
4. Dunne, 5. Molony, 6. Murphy, 7. van der Flier, 8. Conan; 19. Dowling, 20. Connors

3rd choice:
4. Charlie Ryan, 5. Brian Deeny, 6. Martin Moloney, 7. Penny, 8. Sean O'Brien: 19. Alex Soroka, 20. Mark Hernan?

i.e. Dowling moves up the pecking order and into the 2nd choice XXIII. He'd have been a good fit for the bench role with his versatility. If you don't think a player being higher up the packing order improves his chances of being kept on then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

If Fardy left, Dowling would have left too and any minutes he might have gotten probably will have gone to Josh Murphy (a player who is bigger and has more starts than Dowling in the second row)

Possibly. But Murphy will also be needed at blindside quite a lot.

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Also, if you agree that Dowling will be a better blindside, why are you lamenting we let him go? Should we have kept him in the hope he can force his way ahead of the 9 senior backrows we have on the book that would all start ahead of him?

They wouldn't all start ahead of him. He replaced the injured Murphy away to Glasgow when Penny was also on the bench and could have been brought on instead. And has van der Flier ever played blindside? Don't think so. Why am I lamenting it? Because he's a 22-23 year old player with a long term future rather than a 36 yo with one year left who isn't even really needed. Giving him a one-year dev deal and more gametime would have allowed a proper decision be made about his potential.

Dog Botherer

first things first, i don’t think it ever came down to Fardy vs Dowling. how can you know that an extra year of a fringe player getting a chance to maybe force himself to at best 4th in the depth chart is better value than an extra year of the effect of the leadership and experience on the squad that Fardy brings?