Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

D14Rugby

Jesus I had to turn that off. No prizes going for guessing why Rock flopped anymore.

Edit: just btw because he doesn't actually say it Rock never actually crossed over with Schmidt, Schmidt left Leinster in May 2013, Rock sat the LC in June 2013. So God knows how he noticed any differences when he never experienced one of them

Squidgy Black

The Parish King wrote: »

Good interview with former academy scrum half Charlie Rock on the Tackling Sport podcast this week.

Gives a good perspective of what it’s like coming up through the underage and academy system, and the changes he noticed between Joe Schmidt (and although he’s not discussed, I suspect MOC too), with the current regime.

It’s interesting to hear this perspective from someone who just fell short of the grade, and the impact the uncertainty can have on one’s mental health and ultimately your performance. There’s also a discussion around the difficulties associated with keeping players such as Rock in the game at a good level to continue a professional career which may be of interest to some.

I could be wrong, but had Schmidt not left before Rock would've been in the Leinster setup? Schmidt left at the end of the 2012/13 season, and Rock would've been playing SCT that year. Feels a bit disingenuous for him to be commenting on the differences considering he wouldn't have been a part of it and seen it himself.

Even talking about players not getting a chance under Schmidt etc, it feels like he might have been mixing him up with MOC instead.

The Parish King

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I could be wrong, but had Schmidt not left before Rock would've been in the Leinster setup? Schmidt left at the end of the 2012/13 season, and Rock would've been playing SCT that year. Feels a bit disingenuous for him to be commenting on the differences considering he wouldn't have been a part of it and seen it himself.

Even talking about players not getting a chance under Schmidt etc, it feels like he might have been mixing him up with MOC instead.

Yeah that’s a fair point actually - I hadn’t thought too hard about the timelines! I guess he was trying to outline the change in environment and culture with Leo and Stu, but not mentioning MOC is a bit of a strange one!

Although I guess it does support the view around here that the younger players weren’t really trusted during MOC’s time in charge with the different changing rooms and training timetables etc., even if that was a hangover from Schmidt’s time.

Former Former

The Parish King wrote: »

Yeah that’s a fair point actually - I hadn’t thought too hard about the timelines! I guess he was trying to outline the change in environment and culture with Leo and Stu, but not mentioning MOC is a bit of a strange one!

Although I guess it does support the view around here that the younger players weren’t really trusted during MOC’s time in charge with the different changing rooms and training timetables etc., even if that was a hangover from Schmidt’s time.

Rock's first year in the academy was 2015/16 so he wasn't around for the MOC era either.

Listening to it now, he's very complimentary of Lancaster. Leo, not so much.

Richie_Rich89

Scottmactom wrote: »

Who are the 4 players or coaches that make up your Leinster Mount Rushmore?

I'd probably go with Leo Cullen, Isa Nacewa, Brian O'Driscoll & Jonny Sexton.

Coaching is the thing that has the biggest influence, so I'd go with Cheika, Schmidt, Feek and Lancaster. We saw the effect sub-standard coaching can have during 2014/2015 with the dismal league display and lack of player development in the backs and in 2015/2016 with the abysmal performance in the European Cup. Having quality coaching is so important.

If I had to pick a player I'd probably go for Mike Ross. What he went through and came out the other side of in the 2011 Heineken Final was so challenging. O'Driscoll was good too.

swiwi_

The Parish King wrote: »

Good interview with former academy scrum half Charlie Rock on the Tackling Sport podcast this week.

It’s interesting to hear this perspective from someone who just fell short of the grade, and the impact the uncertainty can have on one’s mental health and ultimately your performance.

tdlr Rock and a hard place

sydthebeat

swiwi_ wrote: »

tdlr Rock and a hard place

How has your wife not strangled you yet?

Buer

Day 131 since Leinster played.

I miss rugby. Oh how I miss rugby. I think I might book a day off for when the league resumes just so I can fully absorb all the coverage and immerse myself in beer and takeaways for a few days.

salmocab

Buer wrote: »

Day 131 since Leinster played.

I miss rugby. Oh how I miss rugby. I think I might book a day off for when the league resumes just so I can fully absorb all the coverage and immerse myself in beer and takeaways for a few days.

Wait a minute were we not already immersing ourselves in takeaways?

Scottmactom

Possible outside back depth chart, next season:

11. James Lowe(28)/Cian Kelleher(26)/Tommy O'Brien(22)
12. Robbie Henshaw(27)/Conor O'Brien(24)/Ciaran Frawley(22)
13. Garry Ringrose(25)/Rory O'Loughlin(26)/Jimmy O'Brien(23)
14. Dave Kearney(31)/Adam Byrne(26)/Tommy O'Brien(22)
15. Jordan Larmour(23)/Hugo Keenan(24)/Jimmy O'Brien(23)

Thrashssacre

Nearly an O'Brien for every position.

Scottmactom

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Nearly an O'Brien for every position.

you'd expect some day soon COB, TOB and JOB will all be on the field at the same time.

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

Day 131 since Leinster played.

I miss rugby. Oh how I miss rugby. I think I might book a day off for when the league resumes just so I can fully absorb all the coverage and immerse myself in beer and takeaways for a few days.

You know it’s got bad when Buer’s taken to watching the 13-man code

Shefwedfan

swiwi_ wrote: »

You know it’s got bad when Buer’s taken to watching the 13-man code

It got so bad at the weekend I actually switch on Super Rugby


10 mins of watching that s**t and I just couldn't do it anymore so wento back to a classic Leinster match

molloyjh

Scottmactom wrote: »

Possible outside back depth chart, next season:

11. James Lowe(28)/Cian Kelleher(26)/Tommy O'Brien(22)
12. Robbie Henshaw(27)/Conor O'Brien(24)/Ciaran Frawley(22)
13. Garry Ringrose(25)/Rory O'Loughlin(26)/Jimmy O'Brien(23)
14. Dave Kearney(31)/Adam Byrne(26)/Tommy O'Brien(22)
15. Jordan Larmour(23)/Hugo Keenan(24)/Jimmy O'Brien(23)

When you consider that Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose and Larmour are all likely to be called up to the national squad we don't have a huge number of options for those international periods.

11. Kearney
12. COB
13. ROL
14. Byrne
15. Keenan

23. JOB

That leaves just Frawley, TOB and Kelleher as injury cover. Any word on Academy intake in the back 3 this year? We could do with a prospect or 2 there.

Scottmactom

molloyjh wrote: »

When you consider that Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose and Larmour are all likely to be called up to the national squad we don't have a huge number of options for those international periods.

11. Kearney
12. COB
13. ROL
14. Byrne
15. Keenan

23. JOB

That leaves just Frawley, TOB and Kelleher as injury cover. Any word on Academy intake in the back 3 this year? We could do with a prospect or 2 there.

Andrew Smith is there anyway, some talk that Rob Russell was added after celtic cup, but that's unclear.

Chris Cosgrave, Josh O'Connor and Jamie Osborne are as strong a trio of back three players as leinster have had in awhile, all three are U20 in the upcoming season.. if they'll be announced in the academy whenever the times comes. TBD

O'Connor is probably physically ready for pro rugby, while Osborne/Cosgrave need a year of S&C.

Yeah_Right

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It got so bad at the weekend I actually switch on Super Rugby


10 mins of watching that s**t and I just couldn't do it anymore so wento back to a classic Leinster match

I'm assuming it was the Chiefs v Canes match. That was pretty average.

Shefwedfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'm assuming it was the Chiefs v Canes match. That was pretty average.

Reds v Brumbies


F**king awful stuff

Yeah_Right

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Reds v Brumbies


F**king awful stuff

Haha. I actually forgot that Australia had started playing again. Thats the equivalent of the Dragons v Zebre in the Pro 14

Shefwedfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Haha. I actually forgot that Australia had started playing again. Thats the equivalent of the Dragons v Zebre in the Pro 14

Dragons v Zebre would be better

sydthebeat

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Reds v Brumbies


F**king awful stuff

thats not 'super rugby'... that's 'mediocre rugby'

watch saturday morning at 8am for a cracking match

Shefwedfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

thats not 'super rugby'... that's 'mediocre rugby'

watch saturday morning at 8am for a cracking match

At best it is good tag rugby. No wonder SA is trying to get out and move to Pro 14


I seen today Ceetahs and Southern Kings will be closed down and "Super" Rugby teams will be in Pro14 2021/22 season

sydthebeat

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At best it is good tag rugby. No wonder SA is trying to get out and move to Pro 14


I seen today Ceetahs and Southern Kings will be closed down and "Super" Rugby teams will be in Pro14 2021/22 season

excellent

any of the 3 super rugby SA teams of lions stormers and sharks could be good enough to win the Pro14, and the bulls would do damage to other title contenders.

interested to see what the make up of it would look like, and hopefully there some way for them into european rugby

hahashake

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At best it is good tag rugby. No wonder SA is trying to get out and move to Pro 14


I seen today Ceetahs and Southern Kings will be closed down and "Super" Rugby teams will be in Pro14 2021/22 season

What an utterly bizarre comment. Super rugby players don't put on magic underwear before playing tests and winning world cups (8/9 - but who's counting). We all know that middle of the road SR players can excel in NH comps.


Also the idea that SA sides are trying to get out based on the quality of the rugby is laughable, it comes down to money and time zones. I think you'll find once the world club comp is finalised then NZ and Aus will be happy to see the end of the SA sides as well, hence why they are pushing for it too.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At best it is good tag rugby. No wonder SA is trying to get out and move to Pro 14

Ya, being in Super Rugby really stood against them last year when they.... won the World Cup??

On a more serious note tho, I've just finished reading Donald McRae's Winter Colours (excellent book) and it's obvious this kind of sentiment about SR has been around since the late 90's by the Northern Hemisphere in general. However, in that time, NH teams have won 5 RWC's vs SH's 1. They're obviously doing something right.

I'd agree with hahashake; any manoeuvring to move to the Pro14 is far more down the money than the quality of the rugby opposition.

hahashake

aloooof wrote: »

Ya, being in Super Rugby really stood against them last year when they.... won the World Cup??

On a more serious note tho, I've just finished reading Donald McRae's Winter Colours (excellent book) and it's obvious this kind of sentiment about SR has been around since the late 90's by the Northern Hemisphere in general. However, in that time, SH teams have won 5 RWC's vs NH's 1. They're obviously doing something right.

I'd agree with hahashake; any manoeuvring to move to the Pro14 is far more down the money than the quality of the rugby opposition.

It's an outdated stereotype, every comp has teams playing different styles. You would think with all the lavish praise that some players and coaches get who go from SR to NH comps, that you might also twig there is plenty of quality being produced also. I doubt Lowe would have been on many radars up here until he signed for Leinster.

Shefwedfan

hahashake wrote: »

What an utterly bizarre comment. Super rugby players don't put on magic underwear before playing tests and winning world cups (8/9 - but who's counting). We all know that middle of the road SR players can excel in NH comps.


Also the idea that SA sides are trying to get out based on the quality of the rugby is laughable, it comes down to money and time zones. I think you'll find once the world club comp is finalised then NZ and Aus will be happy to see the end of the SA sides as well, hence why they are pushing for it too.

It was a joke

The move as I have discussed before on here is for money, SA has paid tv deal and props up the NZ and Aus money in Super rugby, moving to paid deals in NH means they will get a bigger cut and hold onto more players instead of them moving to clubs in France etc

From the reports I have seen and talk in SA is the deal is more or less done

swiwi_

The phrase is rugby snobbery. SH has frilly rugby while the NH has real man’s “proper” rugby. A tired cliche that you’d expect from the likes of Stephen Jones. I doubt shefwedfan is looking for a walrus comparison though.

FrannoFan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It was a joke

The move as I have discussed before on here is for money, SA has paid tv deal and props up the NZ and Aus money in Super rugby, moving to paid deals in NH means they will get a bigger cut and hold onto more players instead of them moving to clubs in France etc

From the reports I have seen and talk in SA is the deal is more or less done

I'd say ironing out details of them being eligible for Europe the only delay. (And the competition could really use the shot in the arm they would provide)

16 teams you'd imagine two conferences and maybe do away with the messy home countries teams twice. Revive the interprovincial cup and play the non conference teams as an extra fixture somewhere maybe? (Interpros worth a decent gate)

Buer

hahashake wrote: »

We all know that middle of the road SR players can excel in NH comps.

Agreed. Even the standard of our coaching is far better.