Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Shefwedfan

FrannoFan wrote: »

I'd say ironing out details of them being eligible for Europe the only delay. (And the competition could really use the shot in the arm they would provide)

16 teams you'd imagine two conferences and maybe do away with the messy home countries teams twice. Revive the interprovincial cup and play the non conference teams as an extra fixture somewhere maybe? (Interpros worth a decent gate)

If you had super rugby teams coming on a regular basis then crowds would swell for the Pro14 games. No harm to Ceetahs but they don’t have the same pull as the Bulls etc

Shefwedfan

swiwi_ wrote: »

The phrase is rugby snobbery. SH has frilly rugby while the NH has real man’s “proper” rugby. A tired cliche that you’d expect from the likes of Stephen Jones. I doubt shefwedfan is looking for a walrus comparison though.

Ahh I know it get the old SH people going nuts so just worth throwing it in.... :-)

FrannoFan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you had super rugby teams coming on a regular basis then crowds would swell for the Pro14 games. No harm to Ceetahs but they don’t have the same pull as the Bulls etc

Absolutely! A fully locked super rugby side vs Leinster you could move it to Aviva.

Podge_irl

I think you are overestimating how many of the people in the RDS or Aviva for a Leinster game even know who the Bulls are.

The Lost Sheep

FrannoFan wrote: »

Absolutely! A fully locked super rugby side vs Leinster you could move it to Aviva.

you really couldnt. Interest wouldnt really be there.

pickarooney

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think you are overestimating how many of the people in the RDS or Aviva for a Leinster game even know who the Bulls are.

A lot of people would be expecting Jordan and Pippen to line out

aloooof

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you really couldnt. Interest wouldnt really be there.

Agreed, tbh. I could maybe see some interest in an annual Super Rugby winners vs Champions Cup winners game, but I don't think it'd make any appreciable difference beyond that.

Scottmactom

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you really couldnt. Interest wouldnt really be there.

:rolleyes:

Shefwedfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think you are overestimating how many of the people in the RDS or Aviva for a Leinster game even know who the Bulls are.

Ahh come on, with Super Rugby on Sky Sports you will find most fans will know who they are but amybe not watch them all that much

Podge_irl

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ahh come on, with Super Rugby on Sky Sports you will find most fans will know who they are but amybe not watch them all that much

Most people who go to watch Leinster don't have Sky Sports.

I would consider myself a pretty close fan of European rugby, and while I obviously know of the existence of the Super Rugby teams I know piss all about them, basically never watch them and have no overriding desire to watch Leinster play them.

VANG1

You wont be sending a second rate squad down to play a top SA team at home, no holidays in the sun against them. The NZ teams struggled against them away so I guess with time they would get the respect of insular D4 fans who never leave the RDS.

thomond2006

I don't see a spike in demand to see SA teams over a Scarlets or Glasgow. Someone who knows Super Rugby can correct me if I'm wrong but the Super Rugby sides don't appear as strong as they used to be. The days of the 2009/2010 Bulls which was an incredible team full of superstars are long gone. If you look at the 23 that won the RWC final, many of them will be playing in Europe or Japan soon.

Things would change quickly however if a Bulls or Sharks came to Ireland and won games against full strength sides. That would make filthy casuals take notice!

Shefwedfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't see a spike in demand to see SA teams over a Scarlets or Glasgow. Someone who knows Super Rugby can correct me if I'm wrong but the Super Rugby sides don't appear as strong as they used to be. The days of the 2009 Bulls which was an incredible team full of superstars are long gone. If you look at the 23 that won the RWC final, many of them will be playing in Europe or Japan soon.

Things would change quickly however if a Bulls or Sharks came to Ireland and won games. That would make filthy casuals take notice!

From what I can gather the plan for SA especially from Rassie is to start to bring player back, if they move the Super Rugby team to NH rugby they expect bigger TV money, especially if they can get into HC. This will give them more money to keep the stars.

At the moment, I might be wrong, but majority of money for Super Rugby is coming from SA and not from the other nations.

thomond2006

Shefwedfan wrote: »

From what I can gather the plan for SA especially from Rassie is to start to bring player back, if they move the Super Rugby team to NH rugby they expect bigger TV money, especially if they can get into HC. This will give them more money to keep the stars.

At the moment, I might be wrong, but majority of money for Super Rugby is coming from SA and not from the other nations.

Keeping the Springboks in SA is one thing, but the Super Rugby need the depth of the players not on the Springbok radar as well. The recent attendances in SA haven't been great either: https://www.news24.com/sport/Rugby/SuperRugby/crowds-increasing-challenge-in-super-rugby-20200210

The name recognition is equally an issue in SA. Would a Bulls fan be more interesting in seeing a Scarlets or Ulster over an NZ province?

I think 10 years ago this would have been potentially amazing. Have a look at the lineups of the 2010 SR Final for example. I wouldn't write off a Pro16 by no means but I'm a lot less optimistic than some.

VANG1

Rassie was the Trojan Horse and got the full inside at Munster and see a better future in the NH for the Boks

Quin_Dub

The Prize for the SA teams is the European Cup , the Pro 14/16 would just be a means to an end.

They will treat the Pro14 much as we do - Only play full strength teams a handful of times a year aligned with knock-out phases or as prep for a big European game.

Outside of the 1st few fixtures between the big names where everyone will be looking to make a statement , it will settle into largely the same pattern as we have now.

Scottmactom

Breaking news from EPCR who confirm Marseille will no longer host this year's finals, but will do next year with Spurs pushed back until 2021

arsebiscuits1

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The Prize for the SA teams is the European Cup , the Pro 14/16 would just be a means to an end.

They will treat the Pro14 much as we do - Only play full strength teams a handful of times a year aligned with knock-out phases or as prep for a big European game.

Outside of the 1st few fixtures between the big names where everyone will be looking to make a statement , it will settle into largely the same pattern as we have now.

I agree with this.

From a marketing POV, it's very attractive to say that Kolisi or Pollard or du Toit or Etzebeth could be lining out. But I can't see them playing a mid winter dead rubber in Independent Park or the RDS.

But the concept is pretty sound. I think big names like that would get bums on seats?

It's possible if the Teams come to Europe that they wont be eligible for Europe for a season or 2 while English and French clubs do their usual threat of forming a new competition until they get their way. If the ProXX could get the South African teams playing exclusively for a year I think we'd definitely see a big jump in numbers

arsebiscuits1

Leinster said yesterday they expect Lowe to be back for the next block of pre season - unsure when that starts.

Lowe posted on his Insta implying his departure from New Zealand is imminent.

Looked to be having a great time back home in fairness to him. He strikes me as a home bird/ family focused guy. I'd say it's pretty tough being so far away

Richie_Rich89

molloyjh wrote: »

When you consider that Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose and Larmour are all likely to be called up to the national squad we don't have a huge number of options for those international periods.

11. Kearney
12. COB
13. ROL
14. Byrne
15. Keenan

23. JOB

That leaves just Frawley, TOB and Kelleher as injury cover. Any word on Academy intake in the back 3 this year? We could do with a prospect or 2 there.

No it doesn't leave just Frawley, TOB and Kelleher as injury cover. The current academy players - O'Sullivan, Silvester, Turner - haven't just vanished into thin air. There needs to be some gametime set aside for the year 3 players especially so they can develop. It's how the squad regenerates. There are 46 in the senior squad for next season, which is on the high side. How big a squad do you think they should be carrying?

pickarooney

VANG1 wrote: »

You wont be sending a second rate squad down to play a top SA team at home, no holidays in the sun against them. The NZ teams struggled against them away so I guess with time they would get the respect of insular D4 fans who never leave the RDS.

If there's anyone in Ireland who could afford to go to South Africa it would be D4 fans

Scottmactom

The Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) has finalised plans to facilitate the return of academy players following the return of senior squads in June.

All four provincial academy squads will return to their designated High Performance Centre on 20 July and follow the established COVID protocols to safeguard their return to rugby.

Academy players will complete an eight week pre-season before joining senior squad members to compete in a series of A fixtures in late September and early October.

There will also be three interprovincial 7s tournaments during this period which will see academy selections compete with the Ireland 7s squad.

Provincial Representative Season Outline

12 September 2020

Provincial A Fixtures Round 1

19 September 2020

Provincial 7s Tournament Round 1

26 September 2020

Provincial A Fixtures Round 2

3 October 2020

Provincial 7s Tournament Round 2

10 October 2020

Provincial A Fixtures Round 3

17 October 2020

Provincial 7s Tournament Round 3

12 December 2020

Provincial A Fixtures Round 4

16 January 2021

Provincial A Fixtures Round 5

3 April 2021

Provincial A Fixtures Round 6

Stainalert

Great way to treat the AIL clubs

IRFU rating some makey up sevens tournaments where professional sevens players "Test" themselves against another bunch of semi pro players who have very little experience of sevens over proper 15's rugby in competitions that actually have some meaning.

The Lost Sheep

Stainalert wrote: »

Great way to treat the AIL clubs

IRFU rating some makey up sevens tournaments where professional sevens players "Test" themselves against another bunch of semi pro players who have very little experience of sevens over proper 15's rugby in competitions that actually have some meaning.

its a one off season and considering the AIL wont have promotion or relegation then what's the issue?
It can help identify more 7s players and direct some towards that pathway which as we're on the world series now is quite viable for those who wont get a full contract with their province.

Shefwedfan

pickarooney wrote: »

If there's anyone in Ireland who could afford to go to South Africa it would be D4 fans

Any chance the rugny teams are along the garden route so you could do 3-4 weeks travelling along the route with a game each weekend?

Stainalert

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

its a one off season and considering the AIL wont have promotion or relegation then what's the issue?
It can help identify more 7s players and direct some towards that pathway which as we're on the world series now is quite viable for those who wont get a full contract with their province.

Not sure you have watched the Ireland 15s team recently but we would be a lot better off focussing on improving our 15s rugby than 7s.

It is an appalling statement by the IRFU on what they think of club rugby currently and it is only happening because Nucifora and Anthony Eddy are best mates.

The Lost Sheep

Stainalert wrote: »

Not sure you have watched the Ireland 15s team recently but we would be a lot better off focussing on improving our 15s rugby than 7s.

It is an appalling statement by the IRFU on what they think of club rugby currently and it is only happening because Nucifora and Anthony Eddy are best mates.

you can do both. 7s can be used very effectively like most other top countries across the world.
You would have complained about the irfu no matter what they did for the club game anyway.
What would you have done for next season then?

Could mods move these last few posts to the AIL thread?

Clegg

Just doesn't look right.

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1281303615383244801?s=19

Shefwedfan

Great to see him back in Ireland

Stainalert

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you can do both. 7s can be used very effectively like most other top countries across the world.
You would have complained about the irfu no matter what they did for the club game anyway.
What would you have done for next season then?

Could mods move these last few posts to the AIL thread?

Will ignore your cut at me and will try stick to a factual conversation.

There is no actual hard evidence that sevens rugby produces better 15s players. The main merit sevens rugby has for Ireland is that in a country with only 4 professional outfits young players have another outlet that allows them to pursue rugby professionally.

The AIL has actually produced far more club players over the last few seasons than the sevens program. The AIL has also actually produced more professional sevens players than the professional game itself.

Only thing I agree with you is that this discussion is on the wrong thread