Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Buer

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

More skilled than Horgan? Don't know about that. Horgan was an excellent passer, and would Henshaw come out with that "Gidley" pass Horgan did for BOD to score in the corner that time?

I think Horgan's handling was underrated. Neither player are/were great passers but could pop up with some decent moments and lovely offloads. Henshaw is generally a more frequent offloader though, I think.

I'd also include their respective kicking games when I mention their skills and, as much as I liked Horgan, I cannot fathom how a lad that played intercounty at minor level was such a sloppy kicker.

Richie_Rich89

Buer wrote: »

I think Horgan's handling was underrated. Neither player are/were great passers but could pop up with some decent moments and lovely offloads. Henshaw is generally a more frequent offloader though, I think.

I'd also include their respective kicking games when I mention their skills and, as much as I liked Horgan, I cannot fathom how a lad that played intercounty at minor level was such a sloppy kicker.

I think Horgan was a standout passer. He was able to throw fast, flat and accurate long passes.

His kicking was very agricultural.

sydthebeat

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I think Horgan was a standout passer. He was able to throw fast, flat and accurate long passes.
.

i think if you watched a highlight reel of Henshaw you might be surprised with his range of passing.

Its just that his first instinct is to look for the break or crash means you dont get to see so much of it.... but i recall some very deft offloads and some pin point long range passing ... actually even Murray Kinsella made a point of henshaws perfect long range pass against munster....

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

i think if you watched a highlight reel of Henshaw you might be surprised with his range of passing.

Its just that his first instinct is to look for the break or crash means you dont get to see so much of it.... but i recall some very deft offloads and some pin point long range passing ... actually even Murray Kinsella made a point of henshaws perfect long range pass against munster....

There have been a few nice bits of skill down through the years - the offload to Aki when Connacht beat Munster in Thomond Park in '15/'16 springs to mind.

The pass against Munster was a nice pass, but, honestly, it's the type of thing an international centre should be able to do in his sleep. It wasn't really Dylan Leyds offload level stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHfb0oRmJXk

ionadnapokot

Buer wrote: »

I wasn't born! I just like my rugby history and watching old games.

Kiernan swapped between 12 and 13 for a chunk of his career. Played on the wing a bit too.

Sticking with the nostalgia...
I used to hear this from my father every January for 35 years.
"That '75 side had our greatest ever footballers. Billy "The Kid" McCombe, Mike Gibson and Dick Milliken.
Pity they played in the same era as Gareth Edwards & Bennet. Those two were the greatest!" - sup of pint. chuckle - "Bastards!"

StackSteevens

KH25 wrote: »

Andrew Brace will be reffing the game on Friday. Hopefully the breakdown isn’t such a mess this time.

Good. For me, he's the best of the available options.

Any word on Ulster's ref yet?

The Lost Sheep

StackSteevens wrote: »

Good. For me, he's the best of the available options.

Any word on Ulster's ref yet?

Frank Murphy

arsebiscuits1

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I've seen him listed as 6'5'' and 100 kilos. Don't know if that's accurate but it's probably difficult to be a very effective carrier with that sort of frame.

He showed nice hands for Kelleher's second try away to Glasgow earlier in the season. It's at 1:10 into this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgswjoIDx1I

Rumoured to be starting against Munster.

I think the notion that Connors is solely a tackler isn't overly correct. The reality is you wouldn't make it through the academy these days without a full array of skills. Especially handing. Connors has a decent set of hands as you've pointed out.

He's also adept at using footwork to find the softer shoulders in contact.

Someone who was solely a tackler would be someone like Max Kearney - yes size counted against him. But he was an outstanding tackler who unfortunately brought little else at a high level. As a result he didn't make the academy.

Yeah_Right

ionadnapokot wrote: »

That second five-eighths type of player fell out of vogue since the Nonu-Smith solidified their partnership in 2008.

Thats both accurate and not totally true.
Yes the ABs moved their 2nd playmaker to the fullback spot but the number 12 still needed to be a ball player rather than just a carrier. This was something Nonu developed over the years, along with a kicking game, after starting his career on the wing and then moving in.

I think Henshaw could end up a similar player to Nonu. I think he has a better passing and kicking range than Nonu did at the same point in their careers but Nonu was more powerful and quicker. I believe Henshaw could develop into a world class 12.

BoardsMember

Very hard to separate out what Henshaw is capabe of doing from what he's been asked to do, and not to do, both for Leinster and Ireland.

The grubber kick is a new tactic that he's employed without any problems. It's not something we knew he had. Could be lots more where that came from, he's a good footballer.

Let's see how it evolves. Always wary of the shiny new thing syndrome, it would take quite a lot for Frawley to come anywhere near displacing Henshaw.

AdamD

BoardsMember wrote: »

Very hard to separate out what Henshaw is capabe of doing from what he's been asked to do, and not to do, both for Leinster and Ireland.

The grubber kick is a new tactic that he's employed without any problems. It's not something we knew he had. Could be lots more where that came from, he's a good footballer.

Let's see how it evolves. Always wary of the shiny new thing syndrome, it would take quite a lot for Frawley to come anywhere near displacing Henshaw.

Also we're talking about Frawley as a playmaker when his passing often lets him down. Lets cool the jets a bit until we see him get a run of games there, which he should over the coming months when Henshaw's off with Ireland and our injuries at 12.

Clegg

AdamD wrote: »

Also we're talking about Frawley as a playmaker when his passing often lets him down. Lets cool the jets a bit until we see him get a run of games there, which he should over the coming months when Henshaw's off with Ireland and our injuries at 12.

Oh yeah absolutely. Nobody is expecting Frawley to replace Henshaw immediately, if ever. But his performance last week hints at something we haven't seen much of from Leinster in the past. At the very least he offers a different sort of attacking threat to Henshaw and COB. A few more like that and he'll establish himself as Leinster's second choice 12.

It would be great if Frawley could establish himself as a 12. Would mean Harry Byrne gets more starts at flyhalf. Kills two birds with one stone. We could develop two top prospects in two different positions at the same time.

Leinstertomas

Will be home and away to one of Toulouse or Montpellier (or possibly Castres if they win challenge cup) in champions cup next season.
Other team will be 7th/8th in English Premiership and from a quick glance at the table it seems 2 of Gloucester, Harlequins and Northampton are the most likely.
Toulouse would be tough obviously. Montpellier have a great team on paper with Pollard also arriving but they're yet to make an impact in Europe and don't seem to always take it too seriously.
Would expect comfortable wins against any of those English sides to be honest

guapos

Tier 1 teams from Pro 14 are the two finalists so nothing guaranteed yet.

Hippo

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Sticking with the nostalgia...
I used to hear this from my father every January for 35 years.
"That '75 side had our greatest ever footballers. Billy "The Kid" McCombe, Mike Gibson and Dick Milliken.
Pity they played in the same era as Gareth Edwards & Bennet. Those two were the greatest!" - sup of pint. chuckle - "Bastards!"

Gibson was hands down the best Irish back of the amateur era, fabulous player.

Leinstertomas

guapos wrote: »

Tier 1 teams from Pro 14 are the two finalists so nothing guaranteed yet.

Apparently we are guaranteed tier 1 from having most points in combined table
https://twitter.com/willgkelleher/status/1301099155448889345

Former Former

Leinstertomas wrote: »

Apparently we are guaranteed tier 1 from having most points in combined table
]

Pro14 later confirmed that the finalists will be tier 1, whoever they are

Buer

Interview with Doris on the Indo site. Big item that jumped out to me was that he has had multiple concussions already:

"I had a few niggles, so got rid of those. I had a few concussions as well, so a bit of time for the brain was no problem there as well"

Interested Observer

We knew that already surely, he's been stood down a few times for head knocks.

Clegg

Interesting as he plays tighthead. Sign that Furlong's recovery isn't going well? Also, why exactly were Munster allowed sign Salanoa again?

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1301460710208270336?s=19

Interested Observer

So Munster release Parker, sign Salanoa from Leinster, and Leinster then are force into signing Parker because we're running out of warm bodies at TH?

Tomtom364

Clegg wrote: »

Interesting as he plays tighthead. Sign that Furlong's recovery isn't going well? Also, why exactly were Munster allowed sign Salanoa again?

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1301460710208270336?s=19

Because Salanoa is free to make his own decisions and didn't want to sit behind 2 international standard props nowhere near retirement?

thomond2006

Clegg wrote: »

Interesting as he plays tighthead. Sign that Furlong's recovery isn't going well? Also, why exactly were Munster allowed sign Salanoa again?

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1301460710208270336?s=19

Salanoa has something called free will and exercised it. With Furlong and Porter in situ and Clarkson seemingly highly rated Salanoa saw the writing on the wall. Ryan and Archer are under contract until 2022 when they will both be 34.

Also why single out Salanoa? Aungier left as well, why were Connacht allowed to sign him?

Former Former

Clegg wrote: »

Interesting as he plays tighthead. Sign that Furlong's recovery isn't going well? Also, why exactly were Munster allowed sign Salanoa again?

Even if Furlong recovers tomorrow, he and Porter will be gone for most of October and November with international duty, leaving only Bent and Clarkson as TH props.

Clegg

Because Munster bad.

In all seriousness, Leinster's squad management has been messed with by the IRFU and it's frustrating from a fans POV.

From Murray Kinsella when the move for Salonoa was originally mooted. He was set to stay and continue his development here. Until they intervened. Now Abdaladze and Furlong are both injured and we've two senior tightheads left. One who is still a relative newcomer to the role and the other who is 34 and winding down his career.

He initially considered a switch to Connacht, with the IRFU believed to have favoured that possible move. Salanoa opted against moving west and Leinster understood he would be remaining with them into next season.

However, that situation changed in recent weeks and Salanoa is now set to move to Limerick next season to join Munster, with the IRFU understood to have strongly encouraged the Hawaii native to make the move.

Tomtom364

Usually, a championship winning team would be unable to retain their entire roster.

Sarries knew this and were breaking the salary cap in order to prevent it from happening.

The IRFU are the only reason this hasn't happened with Leinster. It's a bit rich to give out about the IRFU meddling in your squad when they directly pay for the majority of your 1st choice players so your budget can be spent improving squad depth.

Younger developing players are gonna see what's ahead of them and look elsewhere if they don't see an opportunity to showcase & develop with match minutes.

Everyone knows Leinster has probably the single greatest squad for strength in depth in Europe. And it's vastly self developed which is a fantastic achievement. But you can't have your cake and eat it. Develop a rake of good players and they will start looking elsewhere when they realise that they are good enough to be important players there instead of a average squad filler in Leinster.

I expect in the next few seasons a fair few backrows might be off on their travels.

Squidgy Black

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I expect in the next few seasons a fair few backrows might be off on their travels.

Same thing has been said for the past few years or so when we had the likes of Ruddock, Dom Ryan, Jordi Murphy, Heaslip, SOB, Conan, VdF, Leavy all competing for spots in the senior team.

It's inevitable that we'll lose one or two along the way but it's never been the mass exodus that people predict.

salmocab

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Same thing has been said for the past few years or so when we had the likes of Ruddock, Dom Ryan, Jordi Murphy, Heaslip, SOB, Conan, VdF, Leavy all competing for spots in the senior team.

It's inevitable that we'll lose one or two along the way but it's never been the mass exodus that people predict.

I think a lot of quality young players will back themselves to make it at the best setup in Europe over moving. Connors is an example of that, he could have easily moved to Connacht probably for more game time but decided he was good enough to get a place at Leinster. It’s going well for him now but he’s young and has plenty of years to change his mind if it doesn’t go as he plans.

Squidgy Black

salmocab wrote: »

I think a lot of quality young players will back themselves to make it at the best setup in Europe over moving. Connors is an example of that, he could have easily moved to Connacht probably for more game time but decided he was good enough to get a place at Leinster. It’s going well for him now but he’s young and has plenty of years to change his mind if it doesn’t go as he plans.

It's an attritional position as well which has been shown even over the last couple seasons with VdF, Leavy, Ruddock, Conan all missing long spells because of injury, so it's not as if the younger lads aren't going to get chances to get in and try fight for the starting spot too.

stephen_n

So Richie was right and Connors starts ahead of VDF. Interesting to see Keenan get the nod ahead of O’loughlin too.