Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Sheep Shagger

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Just wait a year or so, they'll be 30 quid on Lifestyle.

Last year they had so few of fhe nice black training jerseys for €100.....they sold out.

RugbyLover123

Does anyone know if Eir will be showing the game on their Facebook like the Munster game?

Exclamation Marc

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Does anyone know if Eir will be showing the game on their Facebook like the Munster game?

Unsure. But it's live on TG4 who have a player if that helps.

stephen_n

Irish teams are poor at succession planning, always play the big players to death. Never give younger players opportunities in big games.

Leinster are disrespecting the league.

The rank hypocrisy sometimes is really amusing.

errlloyd

Lads it is disrespectful to rest players.

The leagues best chance to grow fans each year (aside from the interpros) is the play offs. Leinster could do their bit for the league and at try and play the stars while the fans are watching.

My suspicion is that Sexton will be on the bench. Leo will say he is rewarding form.

molloyjh

errlloyd wrote: »

Lads it is disrespectful to rest players.

The leagues best chance to grow fans each year (aside from the interpros) is the play offs. Leinster could do their bit for the league and at try and play the stars while the fans are watching.

Sexton played the last 2 finals. The schedule this year is extreme. Let's all take a breath and remember that.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

Sexton played the last 2 finals. The schedule this year is extreme. Let's all take a breath and remember that.

That's the point.

The fact that the quarter final of Europe is deemed a more prestigious game than the final of the competition that our clubs play in week in, week out is a damning reflection on how the Pro14 is viewed by the clubs that play in it.

Would Premiership or Top14 teams rest their best players in their league finals for a HEC QF?

arsebiscuits1

My god, the petty stories out of nothing during 5 months of no rugby were less tedious than the one that has cropped up in this 6 day window of no rugby....

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

That's the point.

The fact that the quarter final of Europe is deemed a more prestigious game than the final of the competition that our clubs play in week in, week out is a damning reflection on how the Pro14 is viewed by the clubs that play in it.

Would Premiership or Top14 teams rest their best players in their league finals for a HEC QF?

That probably depends on a number of factors. Do they have such an able replacement? What are the teams they are facing in each game and what way do they want to approach the games?

You're ridiculously oversimllifying the whole thing with the use of the term prestige. As I said before, if Byrne starts he is arguably going to be the best 10 on the pitch. Its utterly ludicrous to suggest that the best 10 on the pitch in the final, a guy who has gotten Leinster to finals in the past, the guy who has been capped ahead of numerous other P14 10s in the country including those at Ulster, is somehow degrading the competition. If that guy is degrading the competition, then what the hell is everyone else doing!?

Dravokivich

awec wrote: »

That's the point.

The fact that the quarter final of Europe is deemed a more prestigious game than the final of the competition that our clubs play in week in, week out is a damning reflection on how the Pro14 is viewed by the clubs that play in it.

Would Premiership or Top14 teams rest their best players in their league finals for a HEC QF?

But... he started in the Semi-Finals... If Leinster didn't care, he wouldn't have featured in that.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

That probably depends on a number of factors. Do they have such an able replacement? What are the teams they are facing in each game and what way do they want to approach the games?

You're ridiculously oversimllifying the whole thing with the use of the term prestige. As I said before, if Byrne starts he is arguably going to be the best 10 on the pitch. Its utterly ludicrous to suggest that the best 10 on the pitch in the final, a guy who has gotten Leinster to finals in the past, the guy who has been capped ahead of numerous other P14 10s in the country including those at Ulster, is somehow degrading the competition. If that guy is degrading the competition, then what the hell is everyone else doing!?

No it doesn't. The answer is no. You know it, I know it.

Paul Smeenus

awec wrote: »

That's the point.

The fact that the quarter final of Europe is deemed a more prestigious game than the final of the competition that our clubs play in week in, week out is a damning reflection on how the Pro14 is viewed by the clubs that play in it.

Would Premiership or Top14 teams rest their best players in their league finals for a HEC QF?

While Awec gonna Awec, this point is a hell of an indictment of the Pro14.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

No it doesn't. The answer is no. You know it, I know it.

No we absolutely do not know it. Neither of those leagues has ever had a situation like we have right now with so many KO games on a row. Ever. Please stop pretending that you know something you don't. Do you really think of this happened last year and Saracens were playing Gloucester 1 week and Leinster the next that they would play a weaker team in week 2 than week 1? Really? At the very least it isnt as cut and dry as you make it. Not even remotely.

salmocab

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

While Awec gonna Awec, this point is a hell of an indictment of the Pro14.

It’s not that it’s deemed more important though, they’ve looked at the fixtures, looked at the opposition and made calculated risks. Assuming this is all true they will still be playing an international 10 who has probably started as many or more league games this season than Sexton. It also has to be looked at within the strange way the season has ended up.

molloyjh

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

While Awec gonna Awec, this point is a hell of an indictment of the Pro14.

What is? That Leinster sre starting one of the best 10s in the league? A guy who is internationally capped and has steered Leinster into finals in the past? A guy who will likely be the best 10 on the pitch come kick off? Too many people are looking at this through their own lens. Leinster have multiple top quality players in multiple positions. If he was playing for any other team Byrnes selection wouldnt raise any eyebrows at all. He is good enough. Yet somehow that plus all of the above isn't enough. Which is absolutely f-ing bonkers.

baaba maal

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

While Awec gonna Awec, this point is a hell of an indictment of the Pro14.

I disagree. If Leinster made changes across the team with demonstrably weaker players coming in, that would be an indictment. Not playing Sexton but playing a very, very good 10 instead is not that.
The suggestion is that he will be on the bench- if so, there is even less argument for this opinion.

molloyjh

salmocab wrote: »

It’s not that it’s deemed more important though, they’ve looked at the fixtures, looked at the opposition and made calculated risks. Assuming this is all true they will still be playing an international 10 who has probably started as many or more league games this season than Sexton. It also has to be looked at within the strange way the season has ended up.

He has played more than Sexton this season. He has 9 games to Jonnys 2.

OldRio

If you want to watch teams disrespecting a competition I would highly recommend the English Premiership.
Some real humdingers, if you like tries and half arsed defending.
Or maybe teams are targeting certain games and resting players accordingly. For obvious reasons.

In some eyes the pro14 can do nothing right. Zero.

awec

People: it's absolutely fine that the Ireland captain, and one of Leinster's best players, is not played in the pinnacle game of the league season so he can be rested for a quarter final elsewhere.

Also people: I don't understand why the Pro14 has such a poor reputation and why nobody really cares about it.


You are all arguing the rugby reasons as to why Sexton is rested. Fine, nobody is disputing that. But the point remains the fact that this option even crosses Leinster's minds (and it's a valid option), DOES reflect very poorly on how exactly the league is viewed by the clubs that play in it. If Leinster were playing Ulster tomorrow in the HEC QF then you can bet your life that Sexton would start and there wouldn't even be a question about it. Ross Byrne is great, yada yada yada, yea he is but he's not Sexton.

I am not criticising Leinster for making this decision at all, there's no need to leap to their defence, I am criticising the standard and management of the league that this is a decision Leinster feel they want to make in the first place.

The league is in a very distant third place in terms of relevance to the teams that play in it, and since it's the competition that we play in week in, week out, this is a very sad indictment on where it is right now.

molloyjh

Let's look at it another way. We play Ulster in the final this week and we play Northampton in the QF next week. What do people think would happen? I reckon Sexton starts against Ulster and Byrne against Northampton.

Awec would have you believe that you can look at this and form an opinion ignoring the "rugby reasons". But for professional rugby, what other reasons are there?

If I'm being honest, I initially would have been okay with Ulster winning at the weekend. Not because I dont value the league. I very much do. But because I also want to see the other provinces do well and it would be good for the league if Leinster weren't de facto winners. I'd be disappointed for my team but I could handle it because other guys I support (in green) got what they deserve. Now though I want Leinster to repeat 2012. This sh!te about Ross Byrne would look so much more petty and pointless if he steered Leinster to a convincing win and proved beyond doubt that he was good enough for the occasion. Because make no mistake, all this moaning essentially suggests he isn't good enough for the occasion. He's good enough to get the team the final, but not good enough to play in it apparently. Unless you decide to look at the non-rugby reasons for rugby team selection of course!?

salmocab

molloyjh wrote: »

He has played more than Sexton this season. He has 9 games to Jonnys 2.

I presumed that but couldn’t be bothered checking.
If this was a normal season this wouldn’t be happening but it’s not a normal season.

molloyjh

salmocab wrote: »

I presumed that but couldn’t be bothered checking.
If this was a normal season this wouldn’t be happening but it’s not a normal season.

Exactly. Also, this whole idea that this selection is somehow damning of the standard of the league is a bit of a nonsense on itself. It essentially says that Ulster are not quite as good as some of the other top teams in Europe. Well duh, we already know that.

The standard of the league hasn't suddenly been exposed either. Leinster cruising unbeaten through the regular season already highlighted that pretty starkly.

This selection highlights nothing new, it just reaffirms that in many cases Leinsters second choice players are better than other teams first choice players. Hands up who wasn't already aware of that.

Would the same people here be saying the same things about the GP if Saracens rested Farrel for a final against Gloucester ahead of a QF against Leinster? I very, very much doubt it.

Dravokivich

They've been alternating the starts between Byrne and Sexton and this is just out it lays up. If Sexton didn't start last week, you'd be making the same argument.

Byrne has featured heavily in it for the last 4 years. To suggest he shouldn't be starting the final, because Sexton is hanging around the training pitch and not on international camp/rest/duty, is disrespectful of his efforts and work with the team. If someone was to look in from the outside and completely dismiss Byrne, that's their problem.

Not Leinster's, nor the Pro14's.

We can't manage other people's perceptions.

Paul Smeenus

molloyjh wrote: »

What is? That Leinster sre starting one of the best 10s in the league? A guy who is internationally capped and has steered Leinster into finals in the past? A guy who will likely be the best 10 on the pitch come kick off? Too many people are looking at this through their own lens. Leinster have multiple top quality players in multiple positions. If he was playing for any other team Byrnes selection wouldnt raise any eyebrows at all. He is good enough. Yet somehow that plus all of the above isn't enough. Which is absolutely f-ing bonkers.

First off, take a chill pill. No-one's saying Ross Byrne is rubbish. Unless you're his ma, there's no meed to fight for his honour in quite so frothy a way.

I don't give a toss about Ross Byrne, to be frank. I just think Awec is right in that Leinster are more prepared to risk losing this Pro14 Final than the European QF. That's all.

Am I aware that They are playing Ulster in one and Saracens in the other? Yes.
Am I aware that Saracens are better than Ulster? Yes.
Am I aware that LEINSTER ARE BRILL ALL THEIR PLAYERS ARE THE BEST etc etc? Yes.


However, am I also aware that winning this weekend gets Leinster silverware and winning against Saracens doesn't guarantee a thing? Yes.
Am I aware that Leinster are holding back their best players for the chance of European silverware rather than Pro14 silverware in hand? Yes.

Awec might be criticising Leinster. I haven't. But the team selected will be an indication. amongst many, many things, of how much Leinster comparatively value the two cups.

thomond2006

I'd laugh my head off if Sexton starts now and makes all of this redundant.

Paul Smeenus

If Byrne starts and Leinster lose, the obliterating, nuclear force of Awec's "OH NOW THAT'S INTERESTING" will basically turn Molloy's bones to ash.

molloyjh

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

First off, take a chill pill. No-one's saying Ross Byrne is rubbish. Unless you're his ma, there's no meed to fight for his honour in quite so frothy a way.

I don't give a toss about Ross Byrne, to be frank. I just think Awec is right in that Leinster are more prepared to risk losing this Pro14 Final than the European QF. That's all.

Am I aware that They are playing Ulster in one and Saracens in the other? Yes.
Am I aware that Saracens are better than Ulster? Yes.
Am I aware that LEINSTER ARE BRILL ALL THEIR PLAYERS ARE THE BEST etc etc? Yes.


However, am I also aware that winning this weekend gets Leinster silverware and winning against Saracens doesn't guarantee a thing? Yes.
Am I aware that Leinster are holding back their best players for the chance of European silverware rather than Pro14 silverware in hand? Yes.

Awec might be criticising Leinster. I haven't. But the team selected will be an indication. amongst many, many things, of how much Leinster comparatively value the two cups.

But this is my point. It absolutely does not show how Leinster value one over the other. It shows how they trust in their depth to get both. Thats what I mean about the skewed way of looking at it. I can guarantee you that there is absolutely no way that Leo or Lancaster are thinking "well sure we can throw this one as long as we win next week". They are not doing what you and others assume they are doing.

When they selected Byrne to start against Munster in last years SF that was the week after the HEC final. So they werent willing to risk that game in the way you're claiming they are willing to risk this one. They needed to win the P14 because they would have ended up with no silverware otherwise. But they trusted in Ross Byrne to deliver. And he did. This is essentially the exact same thing.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd laugh my head off if Sexton starts now and makes all of this redundant.

And we rest him for the Saracens game.

Paul Smeenus

So is Byrne as good as Sexton? Or better?