Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Bit of noise about tickets for the weekend given the new 200 limit. They'd nearly have to play in Thomond or Ravenhill given the covid situation in Dublin!

There is no chance of that happening

StackSteevens

Niallof9 wrote: »

Unreal how much hate Zebo gets. I find it distasteful and strange to be honest. He'll never go to Leinster but to imply Keenan is the better player is just nonsense. For me its part of why Irish rugby above provincial has turned a bit ****, we love to knock players who do something different either in size, or temperament or whatever. We much prefer the steady eddies and that's turned out so well at times. I often wonder would some of the old brigade make it these days with these standards.

Anyway he's not going to Leinster and yeah he wouldn't fit into the culture they've built. But he's one of the most talented/skillful back three players Ireland has produced for a while. He's fat, not as fast as made out and seems to be out of step with the monotone, monosyllabic, robotic culture of Irish rugby, but the day there's no place for a player like that in the game is the day its over. We are seeing similar now with Larmour and it feels like he's losing a bit of zip and focusing on the mundane.

If Kidney signed him for the Not-Nots would you be happy?

Heres Johnny

Why is there pages and pages of talk about zebo in a leinster thread in the week of a Heineken quarter final?

kmart6

Deleted User wrote: »

Bit of noise about tickets for the weekend given the new 200 limit. They'd nearly have to play in Thomond or Ravenhill given the covid situation in Dublin!

Would imagine the 200 will be used to have extended squad there, more of the Irish coaching staff instead of just Farrell, that kinda thing.

Neil3030

Hypothetically, I'd be delighted if Zebo signed for Leinster. He'd either get up to speed with the fitness requirements, and we'd have an excellent full back option, or he would not get up to speed with the fitness requirements, and not play.

kingofthekong

Neil3030 wrote: »

Hypothetically, I'd be delighted if Zebo signed for Leinster. He'd either get up to speed with the fitness requirements, and we'd have an excellent full back option, or he would not get up to speed with the fitness requirements, and not play.

Leinster couldnt need Simon Zebo any less, they need him less than a 120 year old, obese diabetic with asthma needs Covid. Amount of talent in the academy means Leinster dont have to make stupid purchases like a 30 year old Simon Zebo

molloyjh

All the Zebo talk came from a joke that a few people took too seriously. He'd never come to Leinster and Leinster wouldn't look to sign him. There really isn't anything else to say on that. I reckon he stays in France. He found a club that worked for him. Paid him big bucks and allowed him to express himself without asking him to do anything he didn't want to. More power to him. We all wish we'd be so lucky.

Back to Leinster though, and I'm a bit nervous about this weekend. But I'm also very nervous about the SF should we make it. Probable route to a trophy at this stage is Saracens, Clermont & Exeter. Thats a tough set of games...

Buer

Exeter will have to go away to Toulouse in a semi final, probably. I'd back Toulouse to win that in France.

All My Stars Aligned

I've been wondering lately about how Leinster have gone from 2nd or 3rd strongest province in Ireland to being one of the great club teams in the world.

When did Leinster become so dominant? The constant stream of talent coming through is really quite astonishing. Was there a concerted effort at some stage to improve the schools structure? It seems to me that even as recently as 10 years ago the flow of young talent coming through wasn't a patch of where it is at today. Is this a purple patch of a generation of gifted young players bursting onto the scene or is there such a strong structure in place that this is going to become the norm?

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

Exeter will have to go away to Toulouse in a semi final, probably. I'd back Toulouse to win that in France.

I thought Exeter were higher seed. Toulouse prob for the final then so. If we both made it that would be interesting. First to five...

salmocab

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

I've been wondering lately about how Leinster have gone from 2nd or 3rd strongest province in Ireland to being one of the great club teams in the world.

When did Leinster become so dominant? The constant stream of talent coming through is really quite astonishing. Was there a concerted effort at some stage to improve the schools structure? It seems to me that even as recently as 10 years ago the flow of young talent coming through wasn't a patch of where it is at today. Is this a purple patch of a generation of gifted young players bursting onto the scene or is there such a strong structure in place that this is going to become the norm?

It’s been a few things most likely, the coaching throughout the province at underage has improved immeasurably, the Big schools Have invested heavily which is turning out top quality players. This is feeding in to a system which Leinster have done a great job with, then at the top there have been some great appointments for coaching going back a while. It’s a perfect storm but mostly of Leinsters own making.

molloyjh

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

I've been wondering lately about how Leinster have gone from 2nd or 3rd strongest province in Ireland to being one of the great club teams in the world.

When did Leinster become so dominant? The constant stream of talent coming through is really quite astonishing. Was there a concerted effort at some stage to improve the schools structure? It seems to me that even as recently as 10 years ago the flow of young talent coming through wasn't a patch of where it is at today. Is this a purple patch of a generation of gifted young players bursting onto the scene or is there such a strong structure in place that this is going to become the norm?

its probably more of the latter. I think essentially Leinster realised that, given their population and their other advantages such as the private schools etc, that they had been hugely underperforming. That was brought into stark contrast by Munsters successes 10-15 years ago. So they have been doing a lot of work in addressing their shortcomings. First in how the senior team operates but then also in terms of maximising the potential from the development pathways. The latter was always going to take some time to really pay off, but thats what we're seeing now. Leinster have engaged the schools and clubs far better than before and I was reading the other day that parents of school kids are now even more interested in the rugby programmes offered by the private schools as a rugby career is being seen more and more as a genuine option. So some schools that didn't invest too heavily before have started to now, further driving competition with schools that already were.

Leinster have been far more active in working with the clubs too, so it isnt just the private schools. Last year Leinster announced plans to build 5 high performance training centres across the province specifically for the development pathway to reduce the need for kids (and their parents) to have to commute to Dublin to get the training they needed. What impact Covid has had on these plans I dont know, but Leinster still aren't finished in this area by any means so the stream of talent should be pretty sustainable.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/leinster-rugby-to-open-centre-of-excellence-at-donnybrook-1.3808598

Sheep Shagger

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

I've been wondering lately about how Leinster have gone from 2nd or 3rd strongest province in Ireland to being one of the great club teams in the world.

When did Leinster become so dominant? The constant stream of talent coming through is really quite astonishing. Was there a concerted effort at some stage to improve the schools structure? It seems to me that even as recently as 10 years ago the flow of young talent coming through wasn't a patch of where it is at today. Is this a purple patch of a generation of gifted young players bursting onto the scene or is there such a strong structure in place that this is going to become the norm?

Two words- Michael Cheika

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

I thought Exeter were higher seed. Toulouse prob for the final then so. If we both made it that would be interesting. First to five...

They are. This is what it was crucial for Leinster to get the top seed.

The winner of the 3 vs 6 seed game gets home advantage for the semi final over the winner of the 2 vs 7 game.

RedRaider0

A large amount of leinster's younger top tier talent has come from one school.. for whatever reason.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

They are. This is what it was crucial for Leinster to get the top seed.

The winner of the 3 vs 6 seed game gets home advantage for the semi final over the winner of the 2 vs 7 game.

I thought they changed it last year to higher seed is the home draw in all cases?

https://www.epcrugby.com/2019/01/20/heineken-champions-cup-semi-finals/

I went to one of the main rugby feeder schools around 20 years ago and the training / discipline / professionalism wasn't there at all. Lads were doing weights but following very basic programs (or just lifting whatever was in front of them) and diet / nutrition amounted to taking creatine and eating whatever else they wanted. The training was still good enough to produce SCT winning teams but it was also quite unprofessional and unstructured in many ways.

I was involved in a different sport at the time at a national level and the standard of coaching / discipline and the training load was way ahead of that of the SCT team.

I'm back at the school a few times a year on a voluntary basis and speaking to the coaches / seeing the facilities it's very professional now and really just a step below what you would experience in an academy. You can clearly see the physical difference amongst the top playing group albeit the trade off is that there are far more kids walking around in casts.

That change over 20 years is massive but not easily replicated. Those schools have a lot of cash to throw around as do the parents and cost becomes a factor very quickly when you are trying to mimic a professional sports environment. Many of the parents who send their kids to these schools also played rugby to a decent schoolboy level so there is a coach at home from a young age.

There is an awful lot that can be replicated though and it is happening throughout Ireland - it's just going to take time to rein in Leinster's headstart in youth talent development albeit I think given the nature of the Leinster schools setup I think there will always be an advantage there.

Buer

The foundations and systems in Leinster are excellent but one or two changes at the top of the tree can completely negate all that work in terms of results on the pitch.

We've seen that in the past with MOC. A new coach comes in with a different idea as to how he wants to play the game, reverting to a more conservative plan to grind out results and ensure they keep their job etc.

Leinster can have an all singing, all dancing schools structure with massive investment but when Lancaster (and probably Cullen) depart at some point in the next few years, it's going to be exceptionally hard to maintain these levels even with the talent coming through unless they identify a similar standard of coach.

Yeah_Right

molloyjh wrote: »

Leinster have engaged the schools and clubs far better than before and I was reading the other day that parents of school kids are now even more interested in the rugby programmes offered by the private schools as a rugby career is being seen more and more as a genuine option. So some schools that didn't invest too heavily before have started to now, further driving competition with schools that already were.

Interesting that you mention the career option. A few years ago I was chatting to the brother of one of my work colleagues. He was in the Dublin team that won the All Ireland back in the 90s. He said that it was something that a few people in GAA were worried about. Talented young athletes choosing rugby because it was a career option. Even if they didn't make it as a pro in Ireland, they could travel the world for a few years making a living playing rugby. Great way to visit different countries.

Interested Observer

Buer wrote: »

The foundations and systems in Leinster are excellent but one or two changes at the top of the tree can completely negate all that work in terms of results on the pitch.

We've seen that in the past with MOC. A new coach comes in with a different idea as to how he wants to play the game, reverting to a more conservative plan to grind out results and ensure they keep their job etc.

Leinster can have an all singing, all dancing schools structure with massive investment but when Lancaster (and probably Cullen) depart at some point in the next few years, it's going to be exceptionally hard to maintain these levels even with the talent coming through unless they identify a similar standard of coach.

Well it is incumbent on Leinster to never appoint another MOC again. They'd nearly have to think about promoting from within, even someone who didn't have head coaching experience yet, as long as they had the right philosophy, so put structures in place internally to try have all the other coaches as ready as possible.

If/when it does come to appointing a new coach it has to be someone with a long-term view and a proven record of bringing through young guys. On the other hand Cullen could be Leinster's Guy Noves for all we know and hang around for 20 years. He's going from strength to strength at the moment and you'd have to think the job will be his as long as he wants it, though maybe in a season or three Ireland will come knocking, he's been as successful as any other Irish coach has been at club level.

Quin_Dub

kmart6 wrote: »

Would imagine the 200 will be used to have extended squad there, more of the Irish coaching staff instead of just Farrell, that kinda thing.

They've already confirmed that - If they are allowed 200 people they will go to extended squad and family etc.

At the 200 person level there will be no tickets for general sale.

The Lost Sheep

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

I've been wondering lately about how Leinster have gone from 2nd or 3rd strongest province in Ireland to being one of the great club teams in the world.

When did Leinster become so dominant? The constant stream of talent coming through is really quite astonishing. Was there a concerted effort at some stage to improve the schools structure? It seems to me that even as recently as 10 years ago the flow of young talent coming through wasn't a patch of where it is at today. Is this a purple patch of a generation of gifted young players bursting onto the scene or is there such a strong structure in place that this is going to become the norm?

Leinster got their processes in place and did it right. They always had stronger schools but oversee a lot of what can be done. They help schools a fair bit and have put huge resources through Coach development officers and the club community rugby officers into local schools and assisting club underage coaches. The systems are in place and it has become the norm

salmocab wrote: »

It’s been a few things most likely, the coaching throughout the province at underage has improved immeasurably, the Big schools Have invested heavily which is turning out top quality players. This is feeding in to a system which Leinster have done a great job with, then at the top there have been some great appointments for coaching going back a while. It’s a perfect storm but mostly of Leinsters own making.

The bigger schools were always producing high numbers of pro/top level players but standard of players has increased with Michaels for example having many of their past pupils pass things down to school and it shows in numbers coming through

molloyjh wrote: »

Leinster have been far more active in working with the clubs too, so it isnt just the private schools. Last year Leinster announced plans to build 5 high performance training centres across the province specifically for the development pathway to reduce the need for kids (and their parents) to have to commute to Dublin to get the training they needed. What impact Covid has had on these plans I dont know, but Leinster still aren't finished in this area by any means so the stream of talent should be pretty sustainable.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/leinster-rugby-to-open-centre-of-excellence-at-donnybrook-1.3808598

The centres of excellence are for regional squads who train in their areas and its to assist and develop that more so those set ups before we get to Leinster province wide squads are stronger.

Deleted User wrote: »

That change over 20 years is massive but not easily replicated. Those schools have a lot of cash to throw around as do the parents and cost becomes a factor very quickly when you are trying to mimic a professional sports environment. Many of the parents who send their kids to these schools also played rugby to a decent schoolboy level so there is a coach at home from a young age.

There is an awful lot that can be replicated though and it is happening throughout Ireland - it's just going to take time to rein in Leinster's headstart in youth talent development albeit I think given the nature of the Leinster schools setup I think there will always be an advantage there.

It always will be advantage to Leinster. They have advantages through the fee schools that the others can never compete on so the other provinces need to be far cleverer than they have been.

yourdeadwright

He guys quick question of the Government decide to go into phase 3 of lockdown on Friday does that mean the game on Saturday would be cancelled ?

phase 3 is no sporting events but is it different for professional sports ?

kingofthekong

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

I've been wondering lately about how Leinster have gone from 2nd or 3rd strongest province in Ireland to being one of the great club teams in the world.

When did Leinster become so dominant? The constant stream of talent coming through is really quite astonishing. Was there a concerted effort at some stage to improve the schools structure? It seems to me that even as recently as 10 years ago the flow of young talent coming through wasn't a patch of where it is at today. Is this a purple patch of a generation of gifted young players bursting onto the scene or is there such a strong structure in place that this is going to become the norm?

I used to think it was just a purple patch, until I see the next crop coming through and they look better then the last, I think the talent coming through shows no sign of slowing down

FACECUTTR

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He guys quick question of the Government decide to go into phase 3 of lockdown on Friday does that mean the game on Saturday would be cancelled ?

phase 3 is no sporting events but is it different for professional sports ?

Professional sport is exempt

BoardsMember

Buer wrote: »

The foundations and systems in Leinster are excellent but one or two changes at the top of the tree can completely negate all that work in terms of results on the pitch.

We've seen that in the past with MOC. A new coach comes in with a different idea as to how he wants to play the game, reverting to a more conservative plan to grind out results and ensure they keep their job etc.

Leinster can have an all singing, all dancing schools structure with massive investment but when Lancaster (and probably Cullen) depart at some point in the next few years, it's going to be exceptionally hard to maintain these levels even with the talent coming through unless they identify a similar standard of coach.

Lancaster you'd imagine might get tempted away at some stage in the near-ish future, though seems to have survived a few poach attempts and rumour mills.

Cullen is interesting, I could actually see him staying quite a long time, through a number of coaches, providing that stability and continuity, being beyond the reach of any witch hunt related to a downturn in performance or results that might hasten a change in coach.

Exclamation Marc

If Leinster can get to the semi final, it will be shown FTA on Virgin Media which is great news.

Neil3030

Yeah the real test will only come when Lancaster leaves, imo. All credit to the development going on at the schools and clubs around the province (I f**king hate the word 'structures'), but let's not forget where Leinster were prior to Lancaster's arrival, and how much they very quickly ascended once he came on board.

AbusesToilets

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Leinster got their processes in place and did it right. They always had stronger schools but oversee a lot of what can be done. They help schools a fair bit and have put huge resources through Coach development officers and the club community rugby officers into local schools and assisting club underage coaches. The systems are in place and it has become the norm

The bigger schools were always producing high numbers of pro/top level players but standard of players has increased with Michaels for example having many of their past pupils pass things down to school and it shows in numbers coming through

The centres of excellence are for regional squads who train in their areas and its to assist and develop that more so those set ups before we get to Leinster province wide squads are stronger.

It always will be advantage to Leinster. They have advantages through the fee schools that the others can never compete on so the other provinces need to be far cleverer than they have been.

You always seem to have strong handle on the game, how do you feel the IRFU are handling the clubs? What could they be doing better, are using them effectively as a development pathway?

mangobob

BoardsMember wrote: »

Lancaster you'd imagine might get tempted away at some stage in the near-ish future, though seems to have survived a few poach attempts and rumour mills.

I have heard this said several times by various people. But I wonder how true it is. I honestly think that his Leinster role is as close to perfect a job for him as one could imagine.

He has been pretty candid that working with players and coaching day to day is what he loves, rather than all the other stresses and distractions that come with being a head coach. So I can't imagine him accepting the top job with an International side.

That leaves the offer of a club coaching role - but realistically he is already doing the job he loves at one of the very best clubs in world rugby. He gets to work with top class talent and has a realistic shot at winning multiple trophies every year. I am not sure what his family setup is, but if they are still in the UK then Dublin is close enough to allow him to still see them very regularly. By all accounts he has a great relationship with the players and is also highly respected and liked by the fan base. Realistically, what other club side could offer him something better? Very few I would imagine.

So unless he is offered a ridiculous boatload of money, I can't see why he would be tempted. And even then I think he would think long and hard before giving up what he has here.