Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

awec

mangobob wrote: »

I have heard this said several times by various people. But I wonder how true it is. I honestly think that his Leinster role is as close to perfect a job for him as one could imagine.

He has been pretty candid that working with players and coaching day to day is what he loves, rather than all the other stresses and distractions that come with being a head coach. So I can't imagine him accepting the top job with an International side.

That leaves the offer of a club coaching role - but realistically he is already doing the job he loves at one of the very best clubs in world rugby. He gets to work with top class talent and has a realistic shot at winning multiple trophies every year. I am not sure what his family setup is, but if they are still in the UK then Dublin is close enough to allow him to still see them very regularly. By all accounts he has a great relationship with the players and is also highly respected and liked by the fan base. Realistically, what other club side could offer him something better? Very few I would imagine.

So unless he is offered a ridiculous boatload of money, I can't see why he would be tempted. And even then I think he would think long and hard before giving up what he has here.

Lancaster lives in the UK, I believe he spends the majority of his week there. Heaslip spoke of this in his book, at least when he was around Lancaster only took training 1 day a week in Leinster (Tuesdays).

I reckon he has a very handy setup right now that suits him, it'll take one of the big jobs on decent money close to home to tempt him away.

RedRaider0

Lancaster spends far more time in dublin than he does the UK on a game week.

Interested Observer

Neil3030 wrote: »

Yeah the real test will only come when Lancaster leaves, imo. All credit to the development going on at the schools and clubs around the province (I f**king hate the word 'structures'), but let's not forget where Leinster were prior to Lancaster's arrival, and how much they very quickly ascended once he came on board.

I don't really like this line of argument tbh. Lancaster has made a massive difference for sure but Cullen was laying the foundations the season before he arrived, giving Ringrose et al their European debuts. That season was set up for failure given it was a post-RWC season and he was taking over from the MOCaplypse. Would Leinster have gone on to be this good without Lancaster? No probably not. But were we looking at season after season of failing to get out of the Euro pools? No.

mangobob wrote: »

I have heard this said several times by various people. But I wonder how true it is. I honestly think that his Leinster role is as close to perfect a job for him as one could imagine.

He has been pretty candid that working with players and coaching day to day is what he loves, rather than all the other stresses and distractions that come with being a head coach. So I can't imagine him accepting the top job with an International side.

That leaves the offer of a club coaching role - but realistically he is already doing the job he loves at one of the very best clubs in world rugby. He gets to work with top class talent and has a realistic shot at winning multiple trophies every year. I am not sure what his family setup is, but if they are still in the UK then Dublin is close enough to allow him to still see them very regularly. By all accounts he has a great relationship with the players and is also highly respected and liked by the fan base. Realistically, what other club side could offer him something better? Very few I would imagine.

So unless he is offered a ridiculous boatload of money, I can't see why he would be tempted. And even then I think he would think long and hard before giving up what he has here.

This is fair imo. He lives in Leeds so if he took a job with say Bristol or Gloucester or Quins or Bath or any London club then it isn't a million miles different than him having to commute to Dublin.

hirondelle

Interested Observer wrote: »

I don't really like this line of argument tbh. Lancaster has made a massive difference for sure but Cullen was laying the foundations the season before he arrived, giving Ringrose et al their European debuts. That season was set up for failure given it was a post-RWC season and he was taking over from the MOCaplypse. Would Leinster have gone on to be this good without Lancaster? No probably not. But were we looking at season after season of failing to get out of the Euro pools? No.



This is fair imo. He lives in Leeds so if he took a job with say Bristol or Gloucester or Quins or Bath or any London club then it isn't a million miles different than him having to commute to Dublin.

IIRC, he mentioned in an interview that the Dublin-Leeds commute (plane of course) would take less time than London-Leeds(car or train).

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

I thought they changed it last year to higher seed is the home draw in all cases?

https://www.epcrugby.com/2019/01/20/heineken-champions-cup-semi-finals/

Just to clarify, Exeter will be at home for the SF if they win this weekend.

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/09/16/2019-20-semi-finals-dates-and-times/

Semi-final 1
If Leinster Rugby (ranked No 1) and ASM Clermont Auvergne (ranked No 4) win their quarter-finals, Leinster will have home venue advantage

If Leinster (ranked No 1) and Racing 92 (ranked No 5) win their quarter-finals, Leinster will have home venue advantage

If ASM Clermont Auvergne (ranked No 4) and Saracens (ranked No 8) win their quarter-finals, Clermont will have home venue advantage

If Racing 92 (ranked No 5) and Saracens (ranked No 8) win their quarter-finals, Racing will have home venue advantage

Semi-final 2
If Exeter Chiefs (ranked No 2) and Toulouse (ranked No 3) win their quarter-finals, Exeter will have home venue advantage

If Exeter Chiefs (ranked No 2) and Ulster Rugby (ranked No 6) win their quarter-finals, Exeter will have home venue advantage

If Toulouse (ranked No 3) and Northampton Saints (ranked No 7) win their quarter-finals, Toulouse will have home venue advantage

If Ulster Rugby (ranked No 6) and Northampton Saints (ranked No 7) win their quarter-finals, Ulster will have home venue advantage

So if we get through it likely to be Leinster-Clermont in the Aviva and Exeter-Toulouse in probably Wembley or Twickenham. I'd back Exeter to make the final in that case.

Buer

Wikipedia lied to me. I'm shocked.

I'm also fuming that I gave molloy an opportunity to be right.

Richie_Rich89

Interested Observer wrote: »

I don't really like this line of argument tbh. Lancaster has made a massive difference for sure but Cullen was laying the foundations the season before he arrived, giving Ringrose et al their European debuts. That season was set up for failure given it was a post-RWC season and he was taking over from the MOCaplypse.

A bit like 2011/2012 was set up for failure for Leinster because of the World Cup? Or '07/'08 for Munster? Or this current season for Leinster?

Why was it set up for failure because he was taking over from the MOCalypse? Erasmus had no problem taking a Munster team that finished third in their Euro pool two years running and only just squeaked Champions Cup qualification to second ranked team after the pool stages in '16/'17.

Interested Observer wrote: »

Would Leinster have gone on to be this good without Lancaster? No probably not. But were we looking at season after season of failing to get out of the Euro pools? No.

I remember thinking this stuff out of D'Arcy was absolute rubbish because if the coaching was got right then of course Leinster being one of the top teams was/is possible but the mood generally wasn't that hopeful: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/almost-impossible-for-irish-to-compete-in-europe-gordon-darcys-worrying-assessment-ahead-of-new-season-35047079.html

Text of article:

Three-time European champion Gordon D'Arcy has expressed grave doubts about the Irish provinces' ability to compete on the European stage, declaring it "almost impossible" to see an Irish side reach the knock-out stages this season.

No Irish side reached the quarter-final stage last season for the first time since 1998 and the retired centre believes that wipe-out will be extended as the English and French continue to flex their muscle.

Gordon D’Arcy has expressed grave doubts about the Irish provinces’ ability to compete on the European stage. Photo: Sportsfile
Gordon D’Arcy has expressed grave doubts about the Irish provinces’ ability to compete on the European stage. Photo: Sportsfile
"They decided to follow the Champions League model, smaller groups, smaller competition and try to expand the second tournament. They have got what they wanted and it is nearly impossible to get out of your group now.

"Most of these groups will be over by Christmas. The days of fighting until the last round to my mind are largely gone.

"They've made it almost impossible for Irish teams, Scottish teams too, to qualify. There's been a momentum swing in the power struggle.

"England and France wanted more control and that is what they got and it is impossible for Ireland and the Celtic nations to deal with that.

"The goalposts have changed, England and France have got stronger and the Celtic nations have largely stood still. It is 40pc more difficult for Irish teams to qualify. It is pretty depressing. If you are not backed by a billionaire, you are struggling."

Leinster have been incredibly lucky to have a lot of high quality coaching over the last 15 years. For 12 of those years, the team's been coached by coaches who had been or would go on to be head coaches at international level. Munster, by contrast, had three seasons of Kidney and one season of Erasmus over the same 15 year period - so four years out of 15 being coached by international head coach level coaches. I'd say if you swapped Lancaster and van Graan it would be Munster who would be in the driving seat. Lancaster's just so good at getting the young squad players up to speed quickly with his intense training sessions that involve the whole squad.

I'm pretty sure Squidge has confused O'Toole with Moore.

Podge_irl

He has. In his defence, surprisingly similar massive arses.

Buer

I have to say, I find him very irritating.

Analysis is solid for the most part aside from some basic errors on players or things that happened in the game. It's like a less detail focused Murray Kinsella breakdown article.

But the shtick is just, well...crap. It takes away from the videos. What was with the Ringrose thing?

Podge_irl

I think his detail has waned as his output has increased. His videos used to be a lot more infrequent and I think the quality has suffered as they have ramped up.

I thought his videos from a couple years back on Leinster after the 18 HEC win were excellent.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

I have to say, I find him very irritating.

Analysis is solid for the most part aside from some basic errors on players or things that happened in the game. It's like a less detail focused Murray Kinsella breakdown article.

But the shtick is just, well...crap. It takes away from the videos. What was with the Ringrose thing?

Garry with the extra R. It started out fine but ended up....not so much.

Clegg

Buer wrote: »

I have to say, I find him very irritating.

Analysis is solid for the most part aside from some basic errors on players or things that happened in the game. It's like a less detail focused Murray Kinsella breakdown article.

But the shtick is just, well...crap. It takes away from the videos. What was with the Ringrose thing?

There are a lot of R's in poor Garrrrrry's name

Clegg

Just on the subject of Ringrose here's a new piece from Kinsella highlighting his recent performances and how good he's been.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1306314410244345860?s=19

Richie_Rich89

No rumoured team anywhere?

Think I'd go for:

1. Cian Healy
2. Ronan Kelleher
3. Andrew Porter
4. James Ryan
5. Devin Toner
6. Caelan Doris
7. Will Connors
8. Jack Conan
9. Luke McGrath
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. James Lowe
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Rory O'Loughlin
15. Hugo Keenan

16. Sean Cronin
17. Edward Byrne
18. Tadhg Furlong/Michael Bent
19. Ryan Baird
20. Max Deegan
21. Jamison Gibson-Park
22. Ross Byrne
23. Ciarán Frawley

Redgirl82

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

No rumoured team anywhere?

Think I'd go for:

1. Cian Healy
2. Ronan Kelleher
3. Andrew Porter
4. James Ryan
5. Devin Toner
6. Caelan Doris
7. Will Connors
8. Jack Conan
9. Luke McGrath
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. James Lowe
12. Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Rory O'Loughlin
15. Hugo Keenan

16. Sean Cronin
17. Edward Byrne
18. Tadhg Furlong/Michael Bent
19. Ryan Baird
20. Max Deegan
21. Jamison Gibson-Park
22. Ross Byrne
23. Ciarán Frawley

You shouldn’t of bothered

Dog Botherer

No Larmour. That’s the bit he’s doing here lads. No need to engage.

RedRaider0

ROC saying Cronin may start.

Buer

RedRaider0 wrote: »

ROC saying Cronin may start.

Massively disappointing for Kelleher if true but the line out is simply too critical. Cronin hasn't exactly been the foremost thrower in rugby but the last few weeks have been extremely problematic for Kelleher.

The loss is Kellehers overall showing around the pitch. His defence was exceptionally good last week. He got off the line like he was shot out of a cannon when defending in our own territory and was stopping people dead.

We'll have to really wait and see how Saracens approach the line out. Itoje is obviously a world class player and exceptional jumper but he's only one man. Kruis, another line out specialist, is not there. Swinson is likely to partner him but he's not really a line out specialist and is more a replacement for Skelton than Kruis.

I imagine Michael Rhodes is going to be their other weapon at the throw given his height and they've used him very effectively in the past. Billy Vunipola isn't much of a jumper and nor is Jackson Wray although I imagine they'll have to involve them at some point.

It plays hugely into Will Connors hands to have as many tall jumping options as possible at the set piece. With him in place, we would have 5 legitimate options on our throw; Connors is normally the tailgunner on defensive sets so I don't see him as being a threat on opposition ball.

arsebiscuits1

Buer wrote: »

I have to say, I find him very irritating.

Analysis is solid for the most part aside from some basic errors on players or things that happened in the game. It's like a less detail focused Murray Kinsella breakdown article.

But the shtick is just, well...crap. It takes away from the videos. What was with the Ringrose thing?

I think his shtick is the best part - albeit it's my kind of humour.

But even for fanatic rugby fans like myself, analysis and red circles and freeze frames can get a bit tedious. As much as I like Murray and the analyst thing he's doing with Pro14 youtube and the like, it can get a bit serious.

I think Squidge has found an incredibly good niche style that can appeal to both pretty serious fans and casual fans alike.

Personally I thought the Ringrose thing was quite funny. And part of his style tends to be do overdo a joke for the comedic effect. Not for everyone, but definitely my style of humour.

His 2 year running joke of making up words instead of saying Johnny Sexton is also quite endearing I think ha

arsebiscuits1

RedRaider0 wrote: »

ROC saying Cronin may start.

Would probably deserve it.

I've been exceptionally impressed with his line speed this season. And he's been very lively since the restart

If we're talking about shutting down the Sarries onslaught, you'd want a few players adept at shooting up and making the right decision. Connors and VDF are obviously excellent at it. But Cronin has been phenomenal at it also.

Never been the strongest thrower but still I have no real reservations about his darts.

arsebiscuits1

Interesting point I've noticed on Leinsters lineout in the last few weeks is they're single man lifting Baird at the front in defensive lineouts.

Unsure what Sarries normally go to on their throw in terms of numbers but if Baird is in the 23 and can get a good jump at 2 while we can still have a full pod behind him means we could have a chance at seriously disrupting their ball.

Buer

I don't think it will happen but I'd be quietly pleased to see Baird get the nod.

When players get to Fardy's age, I think it can be tricky enough to take 6 months out of the game and come back to the top level quickly. The body often just doesn't respond so quickly even if you have been training independently. He needs minutes and he hasn't really been getting the amount of time required to be up to speed. 122 minutes since the return of rugby. I'd be confident that Baird could offer more from the bench at this point in the standard game.

However, with it being Saracens and there's likely to be all sorts of niggle and cheating from both sides, I can see Fardy being the person trusted for the 19 jersey. I do think he's going to be somewhat relegated to a lesser role this season though as others come through and his minutes diminish further.

RedRaider0

id rather see Baird than Fardy at this stage. Big call but Fardy really hasn't be at it since he returned.

Yeah_Right

Dog Botherer wrote: »

No Larmour. That’s the bit he’s doing here lads. No need to engage.

No one called O'Brien either. Wasn't that a feature of his preferred teams earlier in the season? Multiple O'Briens.

dub_skav

Yeah_Right wrote: »

No one called O'Brien either. Wasn't that a feature of his preferred teams earlier in the season? Multiple O'Briens.

Mo Briens, no problems

arsebiscuits1

Great in depth look at Leinster line out issues v Ulster from 13 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qBS0YnMo-Q

Leinster lost 5 throws in the first half.

2 were Ryan getting the call mixed up. 2 were Josh lifting late and one was a dodgy throw.

Feel a bit bad for Kelleher now coz having watched this, it was a small fraction of his fault

Clegg

Just watched that myself a few minutes ago. Really highlights how in sync every player needs to be at the lineout. VDF was a bit late to a few lifts and messed up the lineout as a result. Also didn't realise how many calls Ryan got wrong.

If Ulster competed at the lineout more they would've stolen more ball and really had us in bother. Saracens are one of the best set piece sides around. If Leinster don't make adjustments to the lineout they're in trouble.

Richie_Rich89

Haven't watched it yet, but why's Ryan calling the lineout when Toner's playing?

Are they preparing for a post-Toner world? Or were they trying to keep the option of selecting Fardy over Toner this weekend open?

Shows the importance of Toner anyway. Quality player.