Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Squidgy Black

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Charlie Ward is in the Connacht academy now.

Hadn't even realised.

It's definitely an area we're probably going to struggle and I could see an NIQ being brought in at some stage

Dwarf.Shortage

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Hadn't even realised.

It's definitely an area we're probably going to struggle and I could see an NIQ being brought in at some stage

Maybe I need to rethink my views on operation flip Porter

Dwarf.Shortage

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Not to knee jerk react or anything but are there any promising scrummaging looseheads in the academy?

Healy isn't getting younger and Byrne isn't a scrummaging loosehead. Two international level THs with loads of years left, I'm not saying Healy is finished but we could do with someone coming behind him who's international level.

Don't know that I'm a huge fan of the re-flip Porter idea.

A small, small part of me is hoping that Furlong isn't actually injured - he's just converting to loosehead.

Healy couldn't account for Koch today and his general presence on the field seems to have diminished. If Ed Byrne was the answer he'd have asserted himself by now. We likely need to see someone come through this season or we need to make a signing.

I didn't see anything today from Cronin that warranted his inclusion ahead of Kelleher so that relegation is all the more perplexing.

I think Baird / Ryan will be our starting second row moving forward with Toner and Fardy rotating. Toner added little and Baird made somewhat of an impact. The tightness of the game limited his ability to take ball anywhere near on his terms.

Sexton looked rattled to me today. His decision making and accuracy weren't there but I think Saracens had done their homework, junior cert, leaving cert and primary degree on him this last six months. Even when he made that break he was shepherded every foot of the way.

We were exposed a bit today but I also think we underperformed at times. I feel like the referee picked up on more of our flaws today than he did Saracens but that doesn't account for the points difference.

We're giving away too many turnovers, our maul and lineout have been disorganised and our scrum was turned over today. We need to coach our forwards better and get to grip with law changes before the new season starts.

Bitterly disappointing but a lesson we needed to learn to progress as a predominantly young squad. Enjoy the weekend folks, it's only a game of rugby!

Edit: I think Phillip Browne stating during the week that pro rugby may cease to exist next year was a needless and ****ing stupid comment to make with a major fixture at the weekend. These players have bills to pay and livelihoods.

AbusesToilets

The lack of any grubbers kicks was a big disappointment. We've seen the team utilising them since they've come back , to great effect. It was identified as an area of need, especially combating smothering defenses, like Saracens. Yet it was completely absent.

No pick and goes, no grubbers, nothing to counter the defense. Very frustrating.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

A small, small part of me is hoping that Furlong isn't actually injured - he's just converting to loosehead.

Healy couldn't account for Koch today and his general presence on the field seems to have diminished. If Ed Byrne was the answer he'd have asserted himself by now. We likely need to see someone come through this season or we need to make a signing.

I didn't see anything today from Cronin that warranted his inclusion ahead of Kelleher so that relegation is all the more perplexing.

I think Baird / Ryan will be our starting second row moving forward with Toner and Fardy rotating. Toner added little and Baird made somewhat of an impact. The tightness of the game limited his ability to take ball anywhere near on his terms.

Sexton looked rattled to me today. His decision making and accuracy weren't there but I think Saracens had done their homework, junior cert, leaving cert and primary degree on him this last six months. Even when he made that break he was shepherded every foot of the way.

We were exposed a bit today but I also think we underperformed at times. I feel like the referee picked up on more of our flaws today than he did Saracens but that doesn't account for the points difference.

We're giving away too many turnovers, our maul and lineout have been disorganised and our scrum was turned over today. We need to coach our forwards better and get to grip with law changes before the new season starts.

Bitterly disappointing but a lesson we needed to learn to progress as a predominantly young squad. Enjoy the weekend folks, it's only a game of rugby!

Edit: I think Phillip Browne stating during the week that pro rugby may cease to exist next year was a needless and ****ing stupid comment to make with a major fixture at the weekend. These players have bills to pay and livelihoods.

No chance Furlong is moving across. Wont comment on lot about todays game as havent seen it yet

Squidgy Black

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

No chance Furlong is moving across. Wont comment on lot about todays game as havent seen it yet

I think that was tongue in cheek TLS.

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I think that was tongue in cheek TLS.

I actually saw Furlong in town in August and he held his hand up making an L shape at me. I think he was trying to indicate an imminent shift to loosehead.

The Lost Sheep

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I think that was tongue in cheek TLS.

long day....

When are highlights on tv?

Clegg

It's always a bit harder to assess the performance of the subs as they're coming on against tiring opposition. But in this instance we saw Baird, JGP and Kelleher put in significantly better performances than those who started.

JGP in particular can feel aggrieved with not starting. He's been better than McGrath for a good while now. Luke was clearly rattled and playing behind a beaten pack, but his pass was appalling, he was slow to release the ball, and regularly threw it a foot over the head of the receiver. Saracens had such an easy time in defence.

john_fe12020

McGrath had a very poor game today, tough behind a beaten pack but one in every three or four passes were going too high, just not consistent enough today. JGP improved the accuracy to first receiver considerably when he came on. Not saying McGrath isnt up to standard, he just had a very poor day today, when was needed to be on the money.

I'm sure it's been mentioned here before, but in an ideal situation how does everyone see the back row lining up for the coming season and beyond? Doris, Leavy and Connors? With Deegan or VDF on the bench?

Tomtom364

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Leinster potentially win that game fairly comfortably if they get parity in the scrum. Saracens didn't have anything else in attack apart from the move Good scored off. It was just box kicks all the time like Munster. The tackling from Leinster was really good and stopped Saracens getting momentum.

Both Munster and Sarries (and Ulster TBF) identified that Leinster are very weak at handling the box kicks.

Munster failed to capitalise on it but Sarriers were able to.

Leinster have a serious issue in their back three, I remain unconvinced if larmour as a defensive 15 and Lowe also has defensively frailties, particularly against a good kicking game.

You can afford one of your back three to be weaker in that area of the game but not two.

AbusesToilets

Who would've thought that we could completely nullify both Vunipolas and lose the match?

Exclamation Marc

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Who would've thought that we could completely nullify both Vunipolas and lose the match?

I'm pretty sure Mako tortured Porter in the scrum all game?

Squidgy Black

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Mako tortured Porter in the scrum all game?

Think he means from a carrying stand point

kingofthekong

I’ve always preferred jgp over McGrath , McGrath seems to always take 2 bites at the ball and is super hesitant passing of the ruck which constantly causes our runners to have to slow down or catch the pass standing still , it’s really concerning that none of the coaches have picked that up ...

Bazzo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I actually saw Furlong in town in August and he held his hand up making an L shape at me. I think he was trying to indicate an imminent shift to loosehead.

Thumb and forefinger against the forehead is it?

Sorry Venjur, he was calling you a loser.

Clegg

The league starts in a few weeks. I want to see a lot of Frawley at 12 and Harry Byrne at 10.

As much as I rate Henshaw, his best attributes as a 12 lies in his defensive solidity and workrate. He has never developed the attacking side of his game. And against sides with an oppressive defence like Saracens you need the ability to go around rather than through. I'd like to see a second playmaker in the backline and Frawley could be that guy.

Sexton is still the best 10 in Ireland, but he's not as good as he was a few years ago. He's started getting extremely flustered when his pack is on the back foot. And considering that Ireland and Leinster seem to have problems against the biggest packs, that's a big problem going forward. Give Harry Byrne a lot of starts to.gave him ready for the transition from Sexton.

Purist98

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Not to knee jerk react or anything but are there any promising scrummaging looseheads in the academy?

Healy isn't getting younger and Byrne isn't a scrummaging loosehead. Two international level THs with loads of years left, I'm not saying Healy is finished but we could do with someone coming behind him who's international level.

Don't know that I'm a huge fan of the re-flip Porter idea.

Jack Boyle a huge prospect in the sub academy, only 18 though so a few years away but likely to start 20s a year young

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

Baird was very impressive when he came on. Brought an extra physicality that Leinster missed in that first half. Think it's time for him to start alongside Ryan in the biggest games.

I thought Baird was impressive. Not many rip a ball from Billy Vunipola.

But I do think his inexperience showed. His carrying was very upright at a critical time which allowed himself to be held up. At 6'5" you need to get a good body position and leg drive and he has that. He just needs to use it. The other moment was going to the air to compete on a throw and pulling down the resulting maul blatantly.

It's understandable given how inexperienced he is but Fardy wouldn't have done either of these things. Fardy also wouldn't have ripped that ball or carried so many times. I hope the pair are combined repeatedly this coming season and Baird absorbs everything he can.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

JGP in particular can feel aggrieved with not starting. He's been better than McGrath for a good while now. Luke was clearly rattled and playing behind a beaten pack, but his pass was appalling, he was slow to release the ball, and regularly threw it a foot over the head of the receiver. Saracens had such an easy time in defence.

JGP deserved to start but I thought he was also poor when he came on today.

He threw a very sloppy pass to touch when we didn't have an overlap and his poor box kick was the direct cause of conceding a shot at goal.

Hopefully he gets more of a run but I was a little disappointed with his contribution.

Dwarf.Shortage

Purist98 wrote: »

Jack Boyle a huge prospect in the sub academy, only 18 though so a few years away but likely to start 20s a year young

I recall watching him in the game against Newbridge and being extremely impressed.

Heres Johnny

I don't think Ireland are going to be up to a while lot as regards winning 6 nations and having a crack at 2023 World Cup (not that we ever have done anything in wc anyway). Leinster have the best players in Ireland in over half the positions on the field but even when added to the munster ulster and connacht players I don't think they're anywhere near as good a team we have had in last 20 years or so and we found titles hard to come by then too.
Player for player I think Ireland have had much better over the years. We've very few leaders and don't have players the match of Wood, O Connell, Wallace (David), Heaslip, O Driscoll, D'Arcy, Bowe, Horgan, Kearney in their positions any more. Players that can just dominate a fixture.

Sheep Shagger

is there any truth to the rumour, Rob Kearney is moving to Australia for a 2 year stint with one of the super rugby franchises?

Obviously is out of contract after tonight.

Heres Johnny

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

is there any truth to the rumour, Rob Kearney is moving to Australia for a 2 year stint with one of the super rugby franchises?

Obviously is out of contract after tonight.

Jesus I doubt it. France maybe to link up with a few old comrades and friends but can't see an Australian super rugby outfit being even remotely interested in him.

Dave_The_Sheep

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

is there any truth to the rumour, Rob Kearney is moving to Australia for a 2 year stint with one of the super rugby franchises?

Obviously is out of contract after tonight.

Irish rugby's twitter post on it was worded in a way that implied there may be more to Kearney's rugby career.

BoardsMember

So disappointing.

We've seen it before. Never quite that level of mullering in the scrum, you just can't win a game at this level being demolished in the scrum like that, not to mention conceding 7 pens.

Thought McGrath was as poor as I have ever seen him, slow and sometimes very poor wobbly passes. Conan seemed quite quiet, again.

And yet we could have won, so fair play to them team for hanging in there. They must be utterly gutted to have lost the 2 most crucial games they've had in the last 2 seasons, both to the same team.

KH25

Today was so disappointing. Saracens wanted a scrap and they got it. Leinster didn’t get their composure back until the second half, at which point it was too late. The second half was better but still had too many problems to compensate.

I thought the bench did well overall. Kelleher was more effective than Cronin (who I think is always the better sub option), Baird contributed more than Dev, and JGP was more solid than McGrath.

Overall I think Leinster allowed themselves to be dragged into the game Saracens wanted, rather than playing their own game. Also a quick mention for Saracens playing Gauzère perfectly. Leinster never managed to adapt in that respect.

Sheep Shagger

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

is there any truth to the rumour, Rob Kearney is moving to Australia for a 2 year stint with one of the super rugby franchises?

Obviously is out of contract after tonight.

Best of luck to him if so. Couldn't owe Leinster or Ireland Rugby any less.

Larmour has been handed the keys, Stockdale keen for a go at 15, TOL and Shane Daly also want the number. A great time for us all to let him step off and take care of himself. Gwan and have some fun in Aus!

On Today.

Utterly nullified by Saracens defence. They did one thing special in the first half and it (really was special) earned them 7 points. Other than that they just kept a foot on our neck and we gave them chance after chance to step further away. It was like playing against ourselves. With the ball we only got ourselves in trouble, all due to Saracens pressure and precision.

Very proud and happy with the second half performance, but we'd set ourselves too high a goal vs a team like Saracens. They ultimately knew that any score whatsoever in the second half would win the game and they were okay to play the clock vs us instead.

Bitterly disappointed. We are too good a team to have blotches like this on our calendar, but we've gone and done it. Let's see how we progress. Be hurt and use it. We've only been beaten by Saracens in the last ~13 months, we wont see them for the next. I'd like to be in a position where the next time we see them we are coming off of an even more impressive run, and we have the answers for their defensive questions. Answers we were at sea for for the first half.

Plenty of optimism in the entire season, no game defines it. Onward ever.

Dwarf.Shortage

BoardsMember wrote: »

We've seen it before. Never quite that level of mullering in the scrum, you just can't win a game at this level being demolished in the scrum like that, not to mention conceding 7 pens.

Probably impossible to check but I doubt a team has ever given away 7 (or more) scrum penalties in a knockout H Cup game and won. It just puts you on the back foot to an irredeemable extent, when every second knock on results in a penalty you can’t build any momentum.