Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

awec

It has to be said, Leinster have absolutely ruined Robbie Henshaw. What a limited player he has turned into. O'Loughlin is much better, very under rated.

gally74

awec wrote: »

It has to be said, Leinster have absolutely ruined Robbie Henshaw. What a limited player he has turned into. O'Loughlin is much better, very under rated.

modern day kevin maggs, yet when Eric had him n Pat the player could do anything....

Hes be sore after he finshes with rugby...

Redgirl82

awec wrote: »

It has to be said, Leinster have absolutely ruined Robbie Henshaw. What a limited player he has turned into. O'Loughlin is much better, very under rated.

Yes winning trophies, getting to one of the top ranked centres in the World in 2018, ruined him :-)

Clegg

'Ruined' isn't the right word, but Henshaw definitely isn't the player I'd hoped he be when we signed him. He's a great defender with huge workrate, but has a very limited attacking game. He's easily the best 12 we have right now, but either we help him develop a playmaking side to his game or we start having a serious look at Frawley.

awec

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Yes winning trophies, getting to one of the top ranked centres in the World in 2018, ruined him :-)

In a few years he has been turned into a limited, average bosh merchant at 12.

Yes, he has been ruined. He’s been a bit mediocre for a while now, think O’Loughlin deserves a run at 12.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

'Ruined' isn't the right word, but Henshaw definitely isn't the player I'd hoped he be when we signed him. He's a great defender with huge workrate, but has a very limited attacking game. He's easily the best 12 we have right now, but either we help him develop a playmaking side to his game or we start having a serious look at Frawley.

Pretty much. Henshaw could have been a Jonathan Davies type player who is physical with a huge boot but also an excellent attacker.

Instead he's Brad Barritt who is an excellent player but not nearly as rounded as someone like Davies.

He's hasn't been ruined as such but I don't think his potential as a player had ever been fully realised. Injuries certainly didn't help either.

Buer

awec wrote: »

In a few years he has been turned into a limited, average bosh merchant at 12.

Yes, he has been ruined. He’s been a bit mediocre for a while now, think O’Loughlin deserves a run at 12.

ROL isn't anywhere close to Henshaw in any respect. He's slightly underrated but he's not in the same class whatsoever. There's only 6 months between them too so it's not like ROL is suddenly going to develop into a test level player.

awec

Buer wrote: »

ROL isn't anywhere close to Henshaw in any respect. He's slightly underrated but he's not in the same class whatsoever. There's only 6 months between them too so it's not like ROL is suddenly going to develop into a test level player.

I don't mean at test level. For Leinster I think he's worth a go. Or Frawley.

Or anyone who can pass.

Buer

awec wrote: »

I don't mean at test level. For Leinster I think he's worth a go. Or Frawley.

Or anyone who can pass.

Frawley is worth a look as developing a new option but regardless of level, Henshaw is head and shoulders the best option for Leinster at this time.

kennedmc

Take the point re Henshaw he is a very good player but looks a bit limited I'd like to see more of Frawley at 12 in pro 14 games.

I still feel we have a very conservative attacking game / phase play against the best and most physical teams. If we can't bully them we totally struggle to breake them down.

We already have a second playmaker in our back line in Ringrose but we have very little variation

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

I don't mean at test level. For Leinster I think he's worth a go. Or Frawley.

Or anyone who can pass.

Henshaw is a better passer than any of them

awec

kennedmc wrote: »

Take the point re Henshaw he is a very good player but looks a bit limited I'd like to see more of Frawley at 12 in pro 14 games.

I still feel we have a very conservative attacking game / phase play against the best and most physical teams. If we can't bully them we totally struggle to breake them down.

We already have a second playmaker in our back line in Ringrose but we have very little variation

Exact same issues that have plagued Ireland.

The scrum penalties killed Leinster, but on another day with another referee it may not have been so significant. But the real problem is that once a team gets parity up front (not even dominance), then the wheels start to come off.

Leinster are not tested at all in the league which doesn't help either.

thomond2006

I think Henshaw is finished and needs to take a step down to Munster.

irishbucsfan

First half was a massive disappointment but it was totally at the feet of Sexton and McGrath. Such awful control of the game to decide to go through the phases in our own half against that Saracens team. Every time we did it we lost out and Saracens benefitted. We should have been kicking it on first or second phase any time we had that ball in our half but we didn't and they completely dominated us because of that. The scrum was just a symptom of that.

Lancaster, McGrath and Sexton need to seriously examine how they got that so wrong and why it wasn't rectified on the field.

The second half looked better but in reality its not that impressive, they had us by three scores and they let us play ourselves out.

kennedmc

awec wrote: »

Exact same issues that have plagued Ireland.

The scrum penalties killed Leinster, but on another day with another referee it may not have been so significant. But the real problem is that once a team gets parity up front (not even dominance), then the wheels start to come off.

Leinster are not tested at all in the league which doesn't help either.

Agree re scrum - makes it far harder.

I'm not a fan of Pro14 - year by year the quality is declining. I've been a ST holder since 07. Hoping we would we part of a British and Irish league but unlikely that will happen.

We need more games against quality opposition more often.

irishbucsfan

kennedmc wrote: »

Agree re scrum - makes it far harder.

I'm not a fan of Pro14 - year by year the quality is declining. I've been a ST holder since 07. Hoping we would we part of a British and Irish league but unlikely that will happen.

We need more games against quality opposition more often.

The premiership is no better than the Pro 14

Guinness RFC

If we are being totally honest the truth is there are very few of any game breakers in the Leinster backline. Leinster of old had at least 3 at one time.

Players who have the gas to step their opposite number or a prop populating the defensive line. I know defences are more dominant now but Henshaw doesn’t have that yard of pace where he can show and go and get a line break. McGrath offers no break from the base and Sexton isn’t coordinated enough to step a prop in defence.

It’s all well and good ripping below average teams up in the Pro14 but when it comes to the higher end in Europe and international level we don’t have the extra yard of pace off the mark. We made up for it yesterday by creating overlaps when we did manage to get in behind them but pace off the mark is lacking in our backline.

New Era

Couldn't find an appropriate thread for it but James Haskill in his new autobiography, having a right cut off at Stuart Lancaster and his "poor communication skilks" as part of the reason why England didn't deliver in Rugby world cup 2015. Personally I have to defend Lancaster here. The England team are full of themselves and come across as arrogant and a huge lack of humility and even Jurgen Klopp would have great difficulty in coaching that lot.

Once again the English washing their dirty linen in the public domain and Haskill is no darling for sure. No chance of the players ever taking responsibility for their performances on the field. It's this that and everything to blame, the coach, preparation, tactics etc. They really are a miserable crowd.

No wonder that Lancaster is so reluctant to return to international coaching or go back to England. His senior coach role with Leinster suits him down to a tee and is doing a superb job.

irishbucsfan

New Era wrote: »

Couldn't find an appropriate thread for it but James Haskill in his new autobiography, having a right cut off at Stuart Lancaster and his "poor communication skilks" as part of the reason why England didn't deliver in Rugby world cup 2015. Personally I have to defend Lancaster here. The England team are full of themselves and come across as arrogant and a huge lack of humility and even Jurgen Klopp would have great difficulty in coaching that lot.

Once again the English washing their dirty linen in the public domain and Haskill is no darling for sure. No chance of the players ever taking responsibility for their performances on the field. It's this that and everything to blame, the coach, preparation, tactics etc. They really are a miserable crowd.

No wonder that Lancaster is so reluctant to return to international coaching or go back to England. His senior coach role with Leinster suits him down to a tee and is doing a superb job.

I'd never give the man my money and buy his book, but out of interest...

Does Haskill talk about the time he videoed a girl without her knowledge and shared it around to all his buddies for a great banter laugh?

OneLungDavy

Henshaw and Ringrose were very disappointing yesterday. What happened to attacking kicking game they worked so hard on over the lockdown? Ringrose looked to have evolved this part of his game in some of the lead-up matches, he went into his shell yesterday.

Clegg

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Henshaw and Ringrose were very disappointing yesterday. What happened to attacking kicking game they worked so hard on over the lockdown? Ringrose looked to have evolved this part of his game in some of the lead-up matches, he went into his shell yesterday.

After the game Cullen said the players may have been 'spooked' by Saracens defence and line speed in the first half. I think the game plan went out the window when Saracens started building a lead and panic set in.

BoardsMember

The kickoff said it all. We started so poorly. And McGrath looked very poor. Some awful passes, loopy wobbly things that put us under so much pressure, so hard to try to get a foothold in the game, regain some composure, with reslly slow and poor service.

The defensive system seemed a bit off too, in early phase possession, twice in the first five minutes, McGrath was in defensive line close to rucks and the primary tackler on crash ball. That shouldn't happen, he should not be tackling opposition forwards. I'm all for his great defensive qualities, but him being there means he's in the way of a forward who can make a dominant hit.

OneLungDavy

Clegg wrote: »

After the game Cullen said the players may have been 'spooked' by Saracens defence and line speed in the first half. I think the game plan went out the window when Saracens started building a lead and panic set in.

I can understand players/teams having an off-day, but getting 'spooked' after going a few scores down is very worrying.

Dog Botherer

my two cents.

haven’t seen an irish team collectively take a **** with all of their clothes on like that since the Japan game that we do not speak of. Saracens didn’t have to do anything, Leinster were utterly crap and for some reason couldn’t do anything about it til the game was well over. Sarries were completely gassed at 50 minutes and the fact that Leinster couldn’t catch them while Sarries barely used their bench is maddening.

Keenan was the only player who played in the first half to emerge with any credit. JGP and Baird the pick of the subs.

Trojan

"Everyone has a plan until they get a punch in the mouth"

Thing is, I thought this Leinster team were well prepared for this punch in the mouth. Surely it shouldn't have spooked them - it should have confirmed what they expected was coming.

I think it points to a lack of on-field leadership, as well as the tactical issues.

StackSteevens

awec wrote: »

The scrum penalties killed Leinster, but on another day with another referee it may not have been so significant. But the real problem is that once a team gets parity up front (not even dominance), then the wheels start to come off.

Leinster are not tested at all in the league which doesn't help either.

That to me was a big issue yesterday. Before yesterday, we had three hard, tough games against the best of the Pro 14 teams (the fourth game involved second string selections, so I'm disregarding it), but the intensity was significantly lower and I can't remember us conceding a single scrum penalty in any of the warm up games.

Hence, we were undercooked yesterday and by the time that we had adjusted, it was too late to save the game.

StackSteevens

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd never give the man my money and buy his book, but out of interest...

Does Haskill talk about the time he videoed a girl without her knowledge and shared it around to all his buddies for a great banter laugh?

And that relates to Leinster Rugby how exactly?

StackSteevens

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The premiership is no better than the Pro 14

Thanks for that. It's good to know that the fact that there are no Pro 14 sides and four Premiership sides in the two European Rugby Cup Competition semi finals is a complete aberration.

Buer

StackSteevens wrote: »

That to me was a big issue yesterday. Before yesterday, we had three hard, tough games against the best of the Pro 14 teams (the fourth game involved second string selections, so I'm disregarding it), but the intensity was significantly lower and I can't remember us conceding a single scrum penalty in any of the warm up games.

Hence, we were undercooked yesterday and by the time that we had adjusted, it was too late to save the game.

There's no way you can replicate the intensity of yesterday in a league match whether it's in the Gallagher Premiership or the Pro14. The GP has been a farce since its return due to the crammed fixture list. There's barely been a game featuring two full strength line ups since the opening day.

Leinster have had significantly more rugby of a higher intensity in the past month than Saracens. Vunipola and Wigglesworth have had one appearance each since March and that was a month ago. They were completely composed and knew what they needed to do. Leinster were the opposite and collapsed mentally for the opening 40 minutes.

Baird is the more dynamic and talented player at this point but that game was crying out for Fardy and Ruddock to go toe to toe with Saracens and just tighten everything up. It was time for cool heads with a lot of experience out there and they were very, very thin on the ground for Leinster.

Buer

StackSteevens wrote: »

Thanks for that. It's good to know that the fact that there are no Pro 14 sides and four Premiership sides in the two European Rugby Cup Competition semi finals is a complete aberration.

It's a pointless statistic in isolation. The Challenge Cup is a completely erroneous metric. Nobody cares about it for the most part until the latter stages if even.

Saracens are an outstanding team. I would fancy the provinces ahead of nearly all other Premiership teams. Munster got the better of Exeter in their head to head last season and Leinster got the better of them the year before. Glasgow drew against them this season in the pool stages. Ulster did the double over both Harlequins and Bath in the pool this season (6th and 3rd at the moment in their league respectively).

The rest of their league is a bit of a basketcase filled with teams that would be on a similar level to Edinburgh or the Scarlets. They can have a good season and then be in a relegation fight a season or two.

The Premiership is a better league and a better product as the teams take it seriously and give it a proper go but the quality on show is in no way any better than what the Pro14 delivers.