Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

KH25

The New Jersey looks like it ran in the wash. I miss the old Canterbury gear. Far nicer overall IMO.

Clegg

Frawley starting with Ringrose and Sexton is a really good move. Two out and out playmakers at 10/12 with another really good kicking option at 13. Could be the way forward in coming seasons for Leinster. Glad to see Tommy O'Brien in the squad too. By all accounts he was excellent against Ulster A last week.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1311621899823255554?s=19

Squidgy Black

Tommy O'Brien gets the 23 shirt off the back of his performance in the A game, was one of the few standouts.

You'd have to wonder if Cian Kelleher made the right decision in coming back and leaving Connacht. It's obviously early days but his lack of involvement over the interpro series where Keenan has put a marker down and the likes of O'Brien starting to get involved isn't a great sign for him.

Buer

Keenan moving to full back is a no brainer. I've been very disappointed with Larmour at full back over the last 6 weeks and that's not entirely down to the high ball problems. His decision making has been very poor in a position where you really need someone to steer the ship and make sensible calls consistently.

Keenan has looked much more of a natural full back than Larmour.

Overall, quite disappointed to see such a strong line up but I've no doubt that was always going to be the case with Irish matches on the horizon and people wanting to get back into the swing of it as quickly as possible.

I'd be pretty p*ssed if I was Ross Byrne though. No reason he shouldn't be starting this one.

I find when we tend to put out such a strong selection, they'll go through the motions, put the game to bed and wrap themselves up. I'd rather see a more changed starting side out there eager to make a name and demand further selection.

Clegg

Cronin, Porter, Healy, Baird and Deegan is a ridiculous set of forwards to bring off the bench.

arsebiscuits1

Tommy O'Brien strikes me as a bit of an early days Fergus McFadden type.

Well capable of wing, center and putting in absolutely huge hits. Seems to have an exceptionally strong all around game. One to watch this season for sure

arsebiscuits1

I wouldn't be suprised if JGP finds himself at first choice 9 this year. Started back very strongly. Luke had a game to forget against Sarries too

PMC83

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I wouldn't be suprised if JGP finds himself at first choice 9 this year. Started back very strongly. Luke had a game to forget against Sarries too

Reckon he'll get an Ireland cap?

arsebiscuits1

PMC83 wrote: »

Reckon he'll get an Ireland cap?

If for no other reason than a token cap to lock him down I think he will yeah.

At the moment he's a better option than Blade, Marmion and McGrath.

Clegg

That's a fairly good Dragons side tbh. Also, maybe only whisper it, but their backrow may even be better than ours.

https://twitter.com/dragonsrugby/status/1311624565915820032?s=19

Guinness RFC

Strong bench. I expect we are getting as much out of our Ireland players before the 6 nations restarts. Max must put down a marker if he gets on likewise Ruddock. They are playing for their futures at Leinster.

molloyjh

Clegg wrote: »

...their backrow may even be better than ours...

Really????

FrannoFan

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

If for no other reason than a token cap to lock him down I think he will yeah.

At the moment he's a better option than Blade, Marmion and McGrath.

Disagree re marmion.

Marmion performance was best from any of the 9's i thought

arsebiscuits1

FrannoFan wrote: »

Disagree re marmion.

Marmion performance was best from any of the 9's i thought

Marmions passing is just too slow. Quickest to the rucks. Slowest off the ground

arsebiscuits1

molloyjh wrote: »

Really????

Echoing this.

Wainwright a decent player but not in the same conversation of blind sides.

Openside is no contest either.

Conan offers the same physicality that Moriarty does without the utter disregard for the basic rules of rugby

sydthebeat

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Echoing this.

Wainwright a decent player but not in the same conversation of blind sides.

Openside is no contest either.

Conan offers the same physicality that Moriarty does without the utter disregard for the basic rules of rugby

believe it or not but wainwright has been name checked by Gatland as a possible lion,

gatland:

I'll give you an outsider, a player, an X-factor special player, Aaron Wainwright. He's a young boy who has got something about him - he could be special.

Keddie has been very unlucky with injury but is a very good back rower.

Moriarity is decent... very experienced and 44 test caps not to be sniffed at.

Taine Basham off the bench is very very good in my opinion. He had an incredible season last year and if he had a few more inches in height id have him very close to a wales 23 spot.

That being said, that leinster back row, with deegan off the timber... is incredibly good and actually better balanced in my opinion.

Leinsters players are better, but not by a hell of alot.

i think the 26 point spread is too generous to leinster, taking into account the first game of the season, no crowd, and this iteration of Dragons being the best one of at least the last decade.

arsebiscuits1

Ah Syd, Gatland name checking a Welsh player for the Lions is hardly noteworthy :pac::pac:

Also on the point of the 26 spread to Leinster - I think it's fair.

There's 23 pissed off lads there who should have beaten Sarries.

I don't think Dragons front 5 is any match for Leinsters and that will be the difference.

Any time last season there was that much disparity in the engine room, Leinster generally won by a 4 try margin

Richie_Rich89

If you were picking a composite backrow I'd say it'd be 6. Wainright, 7. van der Flier, 8. Moriarty.

Interesting to see a 36-year old NIQ starting when there're quite a few other options. Toner, Molony, Dunne from the senior squad are missing out on the 23 entirely, and Baird, who needs to be getting gametime surely (?) if he's to be an international soon, is riding pine. Wonder what the thinking is there. Looks a bit short-termist. If not Toner, who is still there or thereabouts at international level, I'd prefer to see someone still on an upward trajectory in there.

clsmooth

I think we’re a bit guilty of overestimating our players at times and underestimating others at the same time. Moriarty is Welsh international who has played in some big wins for them. He might not have done much at club level but what Welsh player has in the last 15 years? He’s proven it internationally.

Conan is two years older and has never managed to nail down a starting place in the Irish back row and only recently nailed down the Leinster jersey (didn’t Jordi Murphy not start the 2018 HC final ahead of him?). Now some of that is due to injury and obviously having Jamie Heaslip ahead of him but there’s still the feeling that he’s not quite got to the level we might have thought he was going to reach. With Doris on his heels, he could well find himself benched for the bigger games depending on how Leo wants to organise his flankers.

El_Duderino 09

clsmooth wrote: »

I think we’re a bit guilty of overestimating our players at times and underestimating others at the same time. Moriarty is Welsh international who has played in some big wins for them. He might not have done much at club level but what Welsh player has in the last 15 years? He’s proven it internationally.

Conan is two years older and has never managed to nail down a starting place in the Irish back row and only recently nailed down the Leinster jersey (didn’t Jordi Murphy not start the 2018 HC final ahead of him?). Now some of that is due to injury and obviously having Jamie Heaslip ahead of him but there’s still the feeling that he’s not quite got to the level we might have thought he was going to reach. With Doris on his heels, he could well find himself benched for the bigger games depending on how Leo wants to organise his flankers.

I agree with this sentiment. I think the leinster-Sarries and Ireland-England matches have shown that leister doesn't have a big ball carrying no.8 who can either break the gain line himself or attract so much defense attention that it allows other players a bit more space. I really like Conan and I think he's a lovely skillful player, but i think it's become clear that he isn't that massive line breaker who i think Ireland and Leinster lack

arsebiscuits1

clsmooth wrote: »

I think we’re a bit guilty of overestimating our players at times and underestimating others at the same time. Moriarty is Welsh international who has played in some big wins for them. He might not have done much at club level but what Welsh player has in the last 15 years? He’s proven it internationally.

Conan is two years older and has never managed to nail down a starting place in the Irish back row and only recently nailed down the Leinster jersey (didn’t Jordi Murphy not start the 2018 HC final ahead of him?). Now some of that is due to injury and obviously having Jamie Heaslip ahead of him but there’s still the feeling that he’s not quite got to the level we might have thought he was going to reach. With Doris on his heels, he could well find himself benched for the bigger games depending on how Leo wants to organise his flankers.

Fair points but if Moriarty is guilty of not showing up at club level then why should we be worried about him tomorrow.

Conan hasn't had the glittering career in green that many of us expected but he still offers a huge amount.

There's not much contest in it for me. Moriarty is a good player.

Does he offer more than Conan? No. Conan is a destructive carrier, effective lineout option at 2, incredibly effective in offensive rucks and solid tackler.

Even the most staunch Moriarty fan can offer little more than "physicality" "doggedness" and other buzz words to skirt around his liabilities in discipline

molloyjh

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Fair points but if Moriarty is guilty of not showing up at club level then why should we be worried about him tomorrow.

Conan hasn't had the glittering career in green that many of us expected but he still offers a huge amount.

There's not much contest in it for me. Moriarty is a good player.

Does he offer more than Conan? No. Conan is a destructive carrier, effective lineout option at 2, incredibly effective in offensive rucks and solid tackler.

Even the most staunch Moriarty fan can offer little more than "physicality" "doggedness" and other buzz words to skirt around his liabilities in discipline

Yeah, Moriarty is a real track bully type. Def brings plenty of aggression, but not always the most controlled. Beyond that I think Conan simply has more to his game. As for the flankers, surely there's no contest as to who is better? Unless Ruddock is suffering a dip in form then I reckon our back row is def better. Our tight 5 is clearly better too.

The one area that will be interesting is the centres. Two different combos there in Leinster playmaker 12 vs Dragons hard carrying 12. Will be keen to see how Frawley fares there.

Whole Ross Byrne can def feel aggrieved at not starting, I think ROL being left out of the 23 entirely is going to sting. One poor error aside I thought he did fairly well when he came on 2 weeks ago. With Frawley now ahead of him in the 12 shirt & TOB getting the nod in the 23 shirt, he might be looking at his game time and thinking he could be getting more elsewhere.

arsebiscuits1

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, Moriarty is a real track bully type. Def brings plenty of aggression, but not always the most controlled. Beyond that I think Conan simply has more to his game. As for the flankers, surely there's no contest as to who is better? Unless Ruddock is suffering a dip in form then I reckon our back row is def better. Our tight 5 is clearly better too.

The one area that will be interesting is the centres. Two different combos there in Leinster playmaker 12 vs Dragons hard carrying 12. Will be keen to see how Frawley fares there.

Whole Ross Byrne can def feel aggrieved at not starting, I think ROL being left out of the 23 entirely is going to sting. One poor error aside I thought he did fairly well when he came on 2 weeks ago. With Frawley now ahead of him in the 12 shirt & TOB getting the nod in the 23 shirt, he might be looking at his game time and thinking he could be getting more elsewhere.

I think ROL will be looking nervously at TOB coming up.

I think Tommy probably has more to his game than ROL but obviously is far from the completed picture.

As much of a fan as I am of O'Loughlin, I think we've seen how much he has to offer. He's a solid reliable center/ wing who rarely lets you down.

I don't want to seem like I have the "shiny new thing" syndrome that affects a lot of people in these parts but if the coaches are backing Tommy to play a bigger part in Leinster, he is going to need the minutes. Likely at the expense of ROL

Buer

I'm a big fan of our back row but there's very few outside of Ireland that would have Ruddock and Conan ahead of Wainwright and Moriarty.

Maybe the Irish pair are better players but the Welsh duo have started and delivered in crunch RWC knock out games. Conan and Ruddock have not proven themselves at as high a level consistently. Wainwright in particular is a quality operator; I think we're looking at a 100 cap international there potentially.

Bazzo

sydthebeat wrote: »

believe it or not but wainwright has been name checked by Gatland as a possible lion,

gatland:

Keddie has been very unlucky with injury but is a very good back rower.

Moriarity is decent... very experienced and 44 test caps not to be sniffed at.

Taine Basham off the bench is very very good in my opinion. He had an incredible season last year and if he had a few more inches in height id have him very close to a wales 23 spot.

That being said, that leinster back row, with deegan off the timber... is incredibly good and actually better balanced in my opinion.

Leinsters players are better, but not by a hell of alot.

i think the 26 point spread is too generous to leinster, taking into account the first game of the season, no crowd, and this iteration of Dragons being the best one of at least the last decade.

Every time I've seen Basham play over the last couple seasons he's looked like an absolute superstar. Looked totally comfortable playing 8 in senior rugby at 18 years old which is mental.

UAEguy2020

Buer wrote: »

I'm a big fan of our back row but there's very few outside of Ireland that would have Ruddock and Conan ahead of Wainwright and Moriarty.

Maybe the Irish pair are better players but the Welsh duo have started and delivered in crunch RWC knock out games. Conan and Ruddock have not proven themselves at as high a level consistently. Wainwright in particular is a quality operator; I think we're looking at a 100 cap international there potentially.

I mean, it helps when you’re playing France and not the All Blacks.

errlloyd

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

I mean, it helps when you’re playing France and not the All Blacks.

France looked like they had it in the bag until birthday ruined his retirement by trying to murder Wainwright

UAEguy2020

Basham and Wainwright I rate very highly, I’m not that big a fan of Moriarty if I’m honest. I think he is decent but bar afew good games in 2017 I’ve not really thought much of him. I do think Basham and Wainwright will be superstars though.

UAEguy2020

errlloyd wrote: »

France looked like they had it in the bag until birthday ruined his retirement by trying to murder Wainwright

That’s the worrying thing considering France did everything in their power to throw the game away, even going as far as to elbowing someone in the face.

Thoroughly enjoyable listen. Good insight into Sexton's mindset and attitude:

There is a rationality and maturity about him that I admire a lot. A lot of the sentiment here is reflective of the calculated nature of successful people in any sport or professional pursuit.

Can hear a lot of Lancaster in there also.