Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

salmocab

I thought Kelleher was excellent in the loose yesterday, he’s very powerful.

Guinness RFC

salmocab wrote: »

I thought Kelleher was excellent in the loose yesterday, he’s very powerful.

His line outs were on the money as well but he was hitting his men in the line outs all last season in meaningless games. The question is can he do it in pressure games with high stakes. He did it on Lyon last season so he doesn’t have a terminal problem. I think the coaches have to ship some blame for the lineout shambles this mini season.

Sheep Shagger

About 6k people signed up to the €120 official membership according to the Irish Times today.

arsebiscuits1

Synode wrote: »

I'm sure I've seen him taking more than 2 in the last few years.

Will happily be proven wrong.

To my knowledge he hasn't kicked at the sticks in a competitive fixture since his one for Ireland against the USA

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=GR900605

Those records show his only conversation for Leinster was last night. But in fairness that wouldn't factor in potentially missed kicks

arsebiscuits1

salmocab wrote: »

I thought Kelleher was excellent in the loose yesterday, he’s very powerful.

Agreed. Consistently won the collision and frequently broke the first tackle.

The lineout was pretty good too. Cronin had one picked off. The only other one I can remember was it going straight through VDFs hands. He really should have caught it. Throw looked spot on.

roadmaster

Interested Observer wrote: »

Leinster haven't played in Donnybrook for over a decade. Why would they be played there?

To save money since they don't need a Stadium

Sheep Shagger

roadmaster wrote: »

To save money since they don't need a Stadium

They are locked into a contract with the RDS to play a certain amount of games there each season.

El_Duderino 09

Buer wrote: »

There have been a few false dawns for Healy's demise but I think we're nearing the end now. He has completely lost any dynamism he had and really doesn't contribute anything close to the other props around the park. The pick and go down the blindside after coming on was criminally dense.

Fardy was solid but similarly I think time is catching up and he's not the player he was 2 years ago.

We still have some lineout wobbles which is a continuing concern. We were more competitive on opposition ball which was nice but we need to be rock solid on our own.

Ross Byrne was disappointing. Very wasteful of attacking ball by repeatedly looking for the cross kick when it wasn't the right option.

On the positive side, Keenan and JGP were both excellent. It's hard to believe that it's the same player kicking from the base that arrived 4 years ago and couldn't kick snow off a rope. Keenan just looks extremely comfortable and assured which is exactly what's needed.

Good to see Ruddock back again and demonstrating his power in contact repeatedly. We could have done with that a fortnight ago.

Agree entirely with almost all of that post. Healy is just losing any impact around the part and they need dynamic, ball carrying props as running threats the scrum is a problem area for leinster. They can hold their own against dragons but it's clear that a better team will target the scrum as a weak point, and Sarries showed how successful that can be.

Keenan was very good and Larmour let oled better on the wing than he has in recent weeks at full back. I think Larmour hasn't been on good form since lockdown and I think,he was coasting on reputation, so I'm very glad to see leinster try him on the wing. "We all know what he's capable of" is a line that's used to paper over poor form in Irish rugby and I think it should never be an excuse for not picking the best team on current form.

Fardy and Toner should probably only be used as a stopgap this year. Target should be to give Baird enough game time and experience to make him ready for the big European games this year.

AbusesToilets

Ruddock offering a strong contrast to POM this weekend at least. Hope he can at least make a bench for a match.

Clegg

POM shouldn't be near the Irish 23 on current form. It'll be Doris or Stander starting at blindside regardless.

El_Duderino 09

Clegg wrote: »

POM shouldn't be near the Irish 23 on current form. It'll be Doris or Stander starting at blindside regardless.

Yeah but there's a great chance POM and Stander will start at 6 and 8 because "we all know what they're capable of" and the fact that POM isn't in good form will probably have fcuk all to do with it.

Stander is doing well to be fair. I just wish he'd take an interest in using footwork at the contact point instead of always trying to run straight into the defender.

Buer

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah but there's a great chance POM and Stander will start at 6 and 8 because "we all know what they're capable of" and the fact that POM isn't in good form will probably have fcuk all to do with it.

He won't. He was already dropped for the 6N and only got back in due to injury. With Conan back now and Connors performing at a high level, his chances of starting are dwindling further.

I'd expect him to get a start over the next 2 months but his test career is coming to an end now. He'll be moving into the old man on a summer tour to the USA role. I don't think he'll feature in the 2021 6N at all (if it goes ahead).

El_Duderino 09

Buer wrote: »

He won't. He was already dropped for the 6N and only got back in due to injury. With Conan back now and Connors performing at a high level, his chances of starting are dwindling further.

I'd expect him to get a start over the next 2 months but his test career is coming to an end now. He'll be moving into the old man on a summer tour to the USA role. I don't think he'll feature in the 2021 6N at all (if it goes ahead).

You should be right but I never underestimate how conservative Irish rugby selection can be. We brought an aging Rory best to the world cup and as we talk about how bad that decision was, we're shaping up to bring Johnny sexton to the next world cup.

molloyjh

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You should be right but I never underestimate how conservative Irish rugby selection can be. We brought an aging Rory best to the world cup and as we talk about how bad that decision was, we're shaping up to bring Johnny sexton to the next world cup.

We brought Best because our options at hooker were crap. If there's an alternative we'll use it. The point re POM was that there are alternatives. Stander at 6 with Doris or Conan at 8 is the obvious choice. Hell, at this stage Ruddock should be ahead of POM if what I heard about today is any indication.

AbusesToilets

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah but there's a great chance POM and Stander will start at 6 and 8 because "we all know what they're capable of" and the fact that POM isn't in good form will probably have fcuk all to do with it.

Stander is doing well to be fair. I just wish he'd take an interest in using footwork at the contact point instead of always trying to run straight into the defender.

Stander has never displayed an inclination for that, doubtful he suddenly develops one.

El_Duderino 09

molloyjh wrote: »

We brought Best because our options at hooker were crap. If there's an alternative we'll use it. The point re POM was that there are alternatives. Stander at 6 with Doris or Conan at 8 is the obvious choice. Hell, at this stage Ruddock should be ahead of POM if what I heard about today is any indication.

Who's the replacement for Sexton? And who would have the bottle to drop Sexton in the next six nations or the one leading up to the world cup because they need to give the other out half game time? I'd say Sexton is odds on to go to the world cup unless he's forced to miss it due to injury. No way they'll voluntarily drop him cased on their previous decisions.

They made best captain so they had to play him in all the big games (can't drop your captain), then they didn't give anyone else enough game time to take the place from him (and the options weren't great) then he was captain so they couldn't take the captaincy from him (can't take the captaincy from the captain) so they played him as he went downhill rapidly leading up the world cup and through the world cup.

And now they've done the exact same thing with Sexton. Can't try new out halves in big games because sexton is captain and you have to play your captain in the big games and so on until we end up scratching out heads wondering how we ended up at the world cup with another aging, underperfoming and undroppable captain. Then presumably make Stander captain and carry on with the process.

Alongside "we all know what he's capable of" is the other intangible "what he brings to the dressing room". Those two clichés are very powerful in Irish selection and can get a player picked for ages in spite of form.

Clegg

Baird will be starting alongside Ryan soon enough. He's also the perfect impact sub. Played extremely well when he came on against Saracens. One of the few forwards who wasnt bowled over that day. Freakishly athletic but also a very good footballer too.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1312135017733058560?s=19

Sheep Shagger

Article and podcast about the financial impact on Leinster Rugby due to COVID-19.

https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/leinster-rugby-may-lose-half-annual-18m-income-without-gate-receipts-1.4368665?mode=amp

Buer

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who's the replacement for Sexton? And who would have the bottle to drop Sexton in the next six nations or the one leading up to the world cup because they need to give the other out half game time? I'd say Sexton is odds on to go to the world cup unless he's forced to miss it due to injury.

Sexton is 35. He's not going to the next RWC. If he's still playing rugby, it won't be in Ireland. He's Ireland captain because of continuity and Farrell wanting a safe pair of hands in his first season. I expect him to be captain for the next 6 months and then Ryan to be given the role. After that, Sexton is on the way out.

There's little to suggest he's going to be still playing at 38.

El_Duderino 09

Buer wrote: »

Sexton is 35. He's not going to the next RWC. If he's still playing rugby, it won't be in Ireland. He's Ireland captain because of continuity and Farrell wanting a safe pair of hands in his first season. I expect him to be captain for the next 6 months and then Ryan to be given the role. After that, Sexton is on the way out.

There's little to suggest he's going to be still playing at 38.

But but but "we all know what he's capable of" and you can't underestimate what he brings to the dressing room".

You should be completely right but I think that without injury, Ireland will sleepwalk into sexton captaining the team at the world cup.

When does his current IRFU contract expire?

Edit: Internet suggests his current contact ends after this season. That should be the end of it.

Whenever I hear "you can't underestimate what he brings to the dressing room", I always think that of its true then they should hire the guy as a consultant coach. If they're great to have around the dressinga room nd have great input then they should use that knowledge but it doesn't mean they have to play the guy if he's not on form.

Bazzo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who's the replacement for Sexton? And who would have the bottle to drop Sexton in the next six nations or the one leading up to the world cup because they need to give the other out half game time? I'd say Sexton is odds on to go to the world cup unless he's forced to miss it due to injury. No way they'll voluntarily drop him cased on their previous decisions.

They made best captain so they had to play him in all the big games (can't drop your captain), then they didn't give anyone else enough game time to take the place from him (and the options weren't great) then he was captain so they couldn't take the captaincy from him (can't take the captaincy from the captain) so they played him as he went downhill rapidly leading up the world cup and through the world cup.

And now they've done the exact same thing with Sexton. Can't try new out halves in big games because sexton is captain and you have to play your captain in the big games and so on until we end up scratching out heads wondering how we ended up at the world cup with another aging, underperfoming and undroppable captain. Then presumably make Stander captain and carry on with the process.

Alongside "we all know what he's capable of" is the other intangible "what he brings to the dressing room". Those two clichés are very powerful in Irish selection and can get a player picked for ages in spite of form.

You really think sexton is odds on to go to the world cup in 3 years???

thomond2006

Bazzo wrote: »

You really think sexton is odds on to go to the world cup in 3 years???

If anyone is willing to offer odds against this, for all that is great in the world drop me a PM.

El_Duderino 09

Bazzo wrote: »

You really think sexton is odds on to go to the world cup in 3 years???

With iteland's record of holding on to players until they retire, yes without injury. I fear they won't drop him in time to give the guys under him the chance to take the Jersey and there isn't an obvious replacement.

But that said, if they don't renew his contract at the end of the year, then that's it.

molloyjh

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

With iteland's record of holding on to players until they retire, yes without injury. I fear they won't drop him in time to give the guys under him the chance to take the Jersey and there isn't an obvious replacement.

But that said, if they don't renew his contract at the end of the year, then that's it.

It is the job of the coaching staff in Ireland to select guys who are good enough to play for Ireland. It is not their job to dole out caps for charity. We have already seen attempts to develop Sextons replacement. Why else was Carbery moved to Munster? We've also had Carty and Ross Byrne in Ireland camp too. So there's little point in speculating about the future at 10 the way you are. We are actively looking at our options. It is up to those players to take the jersey from Sexton, not for it to be passed to them just because. Time it seems has started to catch up with Sexton somewhat and that will only continue in the next year or two. So chances are very highly stacked towards one of those options taking the jersey, either through their own improvements or Sextons decline or, most likely, a bit of both. But for as long as Sexton is the best option he should still be selected. And as it stands he very much is that.

sydthebeat

Harry Byrne.

Ireland 10 in three years time.

Richie_Rich89

Phasing out an ageing player like Sexton is a tough one because chances are they'll still be able to do it at provincial level for considerably longer than at Test level - which means the necessity for the province to move on won't be as pressing and the up-and-coming player can't get enough of a look in in big games to overtake the incumbent. How many games do Leinster play in a season that approach the intensity of a 6N match? One or two maybe? Issues aren't going to become apparent in the vast majority of provincial matches, and if they do crop up against a Saracens, say, how do you know it's not just a once off? Sexton was playing very poorly for Leinster towards the end of the 2016/2017 season but got it together and started for the Lions in NZ.

Stan27

Anyone think Baird would make a decent 6??

OneLungDavy

Stan27 wrote: »

Anyone think Baird would make a decent 6??

Yes. I wonder if himself and Ryan are the right balance for a second row partnership, both are quite similar. I feel like Dunne could be a perfect TH lock to play alongside Ryan.


I'd love to see Baird play 6 but the last thing Leinster need is another Blindside.

Clegg

Leinster have backrows talking out their ears. Second rows of sufficient quality are much harder to come by. I get the argument that Baird and Ryan are similar sorts of players, but I think the best use of resources is to pair them in the second row. Could eventually see Ryan's role morphing into the piano shifter kind of lock who does most if the dirty work. He's definitely added a brutish side to his game over the last 18 months. Would allow Baird to take over as the dynamic, ball carrying lock.

Buer

So, with the completion of the GP regular season today, we can now see who the 4th tier teams are for European rugby.

GP: Gloucester and Northampton
T14: Toulouse and Montpellier

Far from the easiest reward for the season Leinster had. Getting Montpellier (without Pollard) would be a far easier task than Toulouse which would mean a very tough away match and diminished chance of getting a good seed if we qualified.

There's a massive amount dependent on the pool we get drawn in and also who the other Pro14 teams are. Ideally, you want the strongest possible Pro14 teams in your pool as you don't play them but they'll make life very difficult on the other teams. It's almost as helpful to get Munster and Glasgow in the pool as the 2nd and 4th seeds (instead of Edinburgh and Dragons) as it would be to get Montpellier instead of Toulouse.