Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Tomtom364

kingofthekong wrote: »

Love that team.....thats why Leister are one of the best teams in Europe, talent always given an opportunity

Genuine Question.

Do they have any other choice but to give talent an opportunity?

Not to knock Leinster or doubt their development line in any way shape or form but how much is that team "giving talent an opportunity" vs "these are the players we have available for the next 6 weeks with this being the easiest of all of the fixtures"

bayern

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Genuine Question.

Do they have any other choice but to give talent an opportunity?

Not to knock Leinster or doubt their development line in any way shape or form but how much is that team "giving talent an opportunity" vs "these are the players we have available for the next 6 weeks with this being the easiest of all of the fixtures"

Leinster could have started:

Tracy or Cronin over Sheehan.
Kelleher over TOB.
ROL over Turner.

Leinster had Baird over Fardy on the bench for the saracens game. That's giving talent an opportunity if i've ever seen it.

Dunno how a munster fan can doubt leinster give "talent an opportunity" when you look at all the young players that have played for the province in recent years.

kingofthekong

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Genuine Question.

Do they have any other choice but to give talent an opportunity?

Not to knock Leinster or doubt their development line in any way shape or form but how much is that team "giving talent an opportunity" vs "these are the players we have available for the next 6 weeks with this being the easiest of all of the fixtures"

plenty of more experience players could have been selected..

Sure Muster would probably be reaching into the AIL for some journeymen instead of their academy for guys like Neil Cronin and Kevin O'byrne

arsebiscuits1

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Genuine Question.

Do they have any other choice but to give talent an opportunity?

Not to knock Leinster or doubt their development line in any way shape or form but how much is that team "giving talent an opportunity" vs "these are the players we have available for the next 6 weeks with this being the easiest of all of the fixtures"

I think there is a bit of both.

Obviously Leinster are victims of circumstance here in that we have so many players unavailable.

But Leinster have never shied away from giving youth a chance and it's a large part of the reason we've been so successful recently and why we can compete on 2 fronts.

In the last 5 years the calibre of players that's come through the academy is scarcely believable

aloooof

kingofthekong wrote: »

plenty of more experience players could have been selected..

Sure Muster would probably be reaching into the AIL for some journeymen instead of their academy for guys like Neil Cronin and Kevin O'byrne

Did you see the team Munster fielded against Edinburgh, for example? They're doing exactly what you've been criticising them for not doing.

molloyjh

bayern wrote: »

Leinster could have started:

Tracy or Cronin over Sheehan.
Kelleher over TOB.
ROL over Turner.

Leinster had Baird over Fardy on the bench for the saracens game. That's giving talent an opportunity if i've ever seen it.

Dunno how a munster fan can doubt leinster give "talent an opportunity" when you look at all the young players that have played for the province in recent years.

Chill out, that wasn't an attack on Leinster. It was, as the first line said, a genuine question. Not everything is provincial. There is absolutely no need to bring Munster into it.

kingofthekong

aloooof wrote: »

Did you see the team Munster fielded against Edinburgh, for example? They're doing exactly what you've been criticising them for not doing.

they are starting to after a lot of criticism for not doing so, and rightly they have listened

molloyjh

aloooof wrote: »

Did you see the team Munster fielded against Edinburgh, for example? They're doing exactly what you've been criticising them for not doing.

Ah yeah, but thats just another opportunity to criticise them. Because they are only doing it because of online criticism. Which is a bleeding disgrace, so it is.

aloooof

Go on, give Munster some credit. Try it. You might like it.

sydthebeat

Leinster thread lads......

Zzippy

Folks, no need for provincial BS. If a poster asks a valid question, no need to go all ad hominem on them for being a Munster fan, or engage in whataboutery. Attack the post, not the poster.

FrannoFan

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Genuine Question.

Do they have any other choice but to give talent an opportunity?

Not to knock Leinster or doubt their development line in any way shape or form but how much is that team "giving talent an opportunity" vs "these are the players we have available for the next 6 weeks with this being the easiest of all of the fixtures"

i think it comes back to trusting the academy early before season even begins.

leinster don't recruit from overseas as much as they did in the past and just accept that these are the weeks these lads play. There isn't a botha/cloete/colby fainga to step in because they elect to trust the academy when this situation inevitably comes along.

so yes "these are the players we have available for the 6 weeks" is accurate but its not unforeseen

Tomtom364

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Genuine Question.

Do they have any other choice but to give talent an opportunity?

Not to knock Leinster or doubt their development line in any way shape or form but how much is that team "giving talent an opportunity" vs "these are the players we have available for the next 6 weeks with this being the easiest of all of the fixtures"

As Highlighted. Genuine question. Not doubting Leinster overall. This was a specific question about this specific team selection.

bayern wrote: »

Leinster could have started:

Tracy or Cronin over Sheehan.
Kelleher over TOB.
ROL over Turner.

Leinster had Baird over Fardy on the bench for the saracens game. That's giving talent an opportunity if i've ever seen it.

Dunno how a munster fan can doubt leinster give "talent an opportunity" when you look at all the young players that have played for the province in recent years.

kingofthekong wrote: »

plenty of more experience players could have been selected..

Sure Muster would probably be reaching into the AIL for some journeymen instead of their academy for guys like Neil Cronin and Kevin O'byrne

Absolutely rent free accommodation here boys.

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I think there is a bit of both.

Obviously Leinster are victims of circumstance here in that we have so many players unavailable.

But Leinster have never shied away from giving youth a chance and it's a large part of the reason we've been so successful recently and why we can compete on 2 fronts.

In the last 5 years the calibre of players that's come through the academy is scarcely believable

FrannoFan wrote: »

i think it comes back to trusting the academy early before season even begins.

leinster don't recruit from overseas as much as they did in the past and just accept that these are the weeks these lads play. There isn't a botha/cloete/colby fainga to step in because they elect to trust the academy when this situation inevitably comes along.

so yes "these are the players we have available for the 6 weeks" is accurate but its not unforeseen

Leister's academy is unbelievable, and frankly hard to even keep up with who is the new & next stars coming out of it.

I asked this question, as the cunning detective bayern worked out, I am indeed a Munster fan and therefore I lack an encyclopedic knowledge of the other province's squads. Shame on me.

I thought I saw something recently that the reason Leinster pulled out of the 7s tournament was a concern for their squad size, and therefore was wondering if this was just a continuing of the player development or was their hand a bit forced by availability now and with an eye on keeping more experienced players for the games to come over the international period.
Or even worse, was there a bit of concern within Leinster that they could be in trouble soon if they shipped one or two more injuries?

arsebiscuits1

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I thought I saw something recently that the reason Leinster pulled out of the 7s tournament was a concern for their squad size, and therefore was wondering if this was just a continuing of the player development or was their hand a bit forced by availability now and with an eye on keeping more experienced players for the games to come over the international period.
Or even worse, was there a bit of concern within Leinster that they could be in trouble soon if they shipped one or two more injuries?

I think Leinsters resources are very stretched at the moment although we had positive news on the injury front this week with Kearney and Leavy back fit

But we can't escape from the facts that we only have 2 looseheads in the entire squad at the moment. Only one senior player.

If a loosehead drops over the next 6 weeks, we will need Michael Bent to switch across. Leaving us with 2 tightheads. One of whom is 20 year old Tom Clarkson and the other is the short term loan player Ciaran Parker who was released from Munster and only made a handful of appearances in 3 years with them.

The rest of the pack is less concerning.

Centre options are all very green. ROL being the most senior there with the likes of Frawley, Tommy and Jimmy O'Brien and Turner all with little experience

Back 3 we are looking quite light with Lowe, Keenan, Larmour, A Byrne all unavailable.

Losing Kearney, McFadden and even Barry Daly in a short space of time has left us quite light on experience there too

Having typed all this out, to me it looks like Leinster wanted to keep as much continuity in the squad as possible with so many players unavailable and the options so light on experience so opted against sending 12-14 lads out on sevens duty.

sydthebeat

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Genuine Question.

Do they have any other choice but to give talent an opportunity?

yes

they could have purchased from abroad

but they dont, they promote from within instead

Dave_The_Sheep

Delicious.

Richie_Rich89

What's the point of Fardy as the sub-backrower? Sure, go for a 6-2 split if you're not sure about Leavy, but would it not have been better to give the 20 shirt to Martin Moloney, Sean O'Brien, Brian Deeny or Alexis Soroka? Seems like a wasted opportunity to get one of the academy backrowers involved - assuming they're training with the squad, that is.

Six U23 players starting v Zebre (Sheehan, Penny, H. Byrne, Frawley, Turner, T. O'Brien) and two players (Bent, Toner) who are 33+.

Currently contracted U23s:
Michael Milne 5/2/99
Ronan Kelleher 24/1/98
Dan Sheehan
John McKee 15/2/00
Thomas Clarkson 22/2/00
Jack Dunne 21/11/98
Ryan Baird 26/7/99
Charlie Ryan 2/3/99
Brian Deeny 2/3/00
Joe McCarthy 26/3/01
Scott Penny 22/9/99
Martin Moloney 19/10/00
Sean O'Brien 31/7/00
Alex Soroka 19/2/01
Caelan Doris 2/5/98
Hugh O'Sullivan 24/2/98
Paddy Patterson 30/11/98
Cormac Foley 24/10/99
Ciaran Frawley 4/12/97
Harry Byrne 22/5/99
David Hawkshaw 3/7/99
Tommy O'Brien 28/5/98
Liam Turner 22/7/99
Michael Silvester 4/6/98
Aaron O'Sullivan 15/12/99
Andrew Smith 21/7/00
Niall Comerford
Max O'Reilly 26/2/00

Current players who are 33+:
Michael Bent
Sean Cronin
Scott Fardy
Devin Toner
Jonathan Sexton
Cian Healy

Current average no. of young players starting is 3.33 after three selections (2 v Dragons, 2 v Treviso and 6 v Zebre)

salmocab

Jesus wept can you drop the constant Fardy thing.

Richie_Rich89

salmocab wrote: »

Jesus wept can you drop the constant Fardy thing.

He is a 36-year old NIQ with 6 or 7 months left at Leinster who wouldn't make the strongest XXIII unless Baird shifted to blindside (and even then he could struggle to stay ahead of Molony or Dunne on form much longer). It just seems like short-termism to shoehorn him into the matchday squad for this game if one of the academy backrowers was available. I don't know, maybe they're not with the squad because of Covid.

salmocab

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

He is a 36-year old NIQ with 6 or 7 months left at Leinster who wouldn't make the strongest XXIII unless Baird shifted to blindside (and even then he could struggle to stay ahead of Molony or Dunne on form much longer). It just seems like short-termism to shoehorn him into the matchday squad for this game if one of the academy backrowers was available. I don't know, maybe they're not with the squad because of Covid.

They have a second row on the bench with a handful of games and a flanker with barely a few more. There’s plenty of younger players in the team but you’re never happy, we get it you don’t think Fardy Should be there you don’t need to keep making the same point and dressing it up as concern for youth. Baird has done alright for someone if I remember right was going to suffer from lack of game time.

Exclamation Marc

salmocab wrote: »

Jesus wept can you drop the constant Fardy thing.

It's just this year's version of "I'd play an Under 12s player instead of [insert NIQ here]" shtick.

It's tiresome, predictable and utter shïtehawking that's best ignored tbh.

salmocab

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

It's just this year's version of "I'd play an Under 12s player instead of [insert NIQ here]".

It's tiresome, predictable and utter shïtehawking that's best ignored tbh.

I’ve just seen on social media that there are 4 debuts in the 23.

pickarooney

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

It's just this year's version of "I'd play an Under 12s player instead of [insert NIQ here]" shtick.

It's tiresome, predictable and utter shïtehawking that's best ignored tbh.

Shïtehawk is that new guy on the bench for the Zebre game?

bayern

https://www.the42.ie/leinster-dan-sheehan-hooker-5242213-Oct2020/

“He is big and very powerful,” says Leinster boss Leo Cullen of Sheehan. “He came into the academy with a little bit of uncertainty, it just shows you. He wouldn’t have been someone who featured massively with the U20s, others would have featured ahead of him.

“He’s applied himself very well. He had clear physical potential but he has definitely joined up a lot of dots. He’s improving his set-piece all the time – a very good thrower of the ball. His scrum bits working with Robin [McBryde, Leinster's scrum coach] are getting better all the time.

“He’s still a young man. We’re delighted how Dan has gone. He has had to bide his time to get his opportunity. He has been a little bit unlucky, came very close on a couple of other occasions but just didn’t get there.

“It’s a big day for him. It just shows you that whatever the pecking order at one moment in time, it’s not going to be the pecking order forever. He’s had work his way through his own age group but then when you get to the senior group as well.”

Cullen also pointed out that Sheehan’s younger brother, Bobby, is an even taller hooker at 6ft 5ins and has been impressing for UCD.

kingofthekong

bayern wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/leinster-dan-sheehan-hooker-5242213-Oct2020/

Jesus at 6'5 , dont think an international hooker has ever been that tall, surely a move to the blindside for a guy that size?

bayern

kingofthekong wrote: »

Jesus at 6'5 , dont think an international hooker has ever been that tall, surely a move to the blindside for a guy that size?

not athletic enough, at least at pro level.

i'd see if he could convert to prop.

Clegg

Blast from the past

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1319549121167085568?s=19

kingofthekong

bayern wrote: »

not athletic enough, at least at pro level.

i'd see if he could convert to prop.

Becomig a 6'5 prop would be equally as daft a conversion attempt imo

bayern

kingofthekong wrote: »

Becomig a 6'5 prop would be equally as daft a conversion attempt imo

plenty history of tall props in the game and currently:

Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Tyrel Lomax
Alex Hodgman
Dan Brennan
Angus Bell
Pone Fa'amausili
Georges-Henri Colombe
Jean-Baptiste Gros
Joe Heyes

arsebiscuits1

bayern wrote: »

plenty history of tall props in the game and currently:

Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Tyrel Lomax
Alex Hodgman
Dan Brennan

And how can we forget the prime example of tall props.........


Tony Buckley :pac::pac::pac: