Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

Sexton off with another injury. No chance he plays next weekend. Ross Byrne hasn't been at Leinster camp in ages either. So first European start for Harry Byrne incoming.

There's an outhalf who has started numerous European games including knock out games and test rugby who is going to sit on the bench because another outhalf has been with the camp and playing Pro14 in recent weeks?

El_Duderino 09

Clegg wrote: »

Doris has shown up well too. He's not a brute of a carrier that can make metres from a standing start, but give him any sort of run up and he'll get over the gain line. He's been excellent today.

It's easy to forget that he's just 22 and only starting his career. If he can stay fit he has a huge future.

It was interesting to see his footwork in contact vs Stander’s approach of running straight into the tackler’s centre of gravity.

I think someone did Stander a disservice by telling him to always run over the opposition and never try to get around them.

This is Ireland related chat but Stander started this international window as the first choice back row and is now he’s most likely to drop out. Doris is best of the back 3 and POM has played his way back in to start at 6 or 7.

pickarooney

Seems like a lot of recency bias.

Whoever plays 6 for Ireland ends up with terrible stats on paper. This applies to Stander, POM and Doris.

El_Duderino 09

pickarooney wrote: »

Seems like a lot of recency bias.

Whoever plays 6 for Ireland ends up with terrible stats on paper. This applies to Stander, POM and Doris.

Doris?

Buer

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Doris?

His stats against France were pretty low and it was comfortably his most anonymous display in green. Granted he was excellent against Italy but that wasn't exactly a tightly fought game up front.

Very difficult to pick the team for this weekend. Huge amount of cohesion and continuity with the pro14 squad whilst the internationals have been away and the organisation seen in every matchday 23 suggests a particularly well drilled side where everyone knows their job.

The speed and accuracy with which Leinster move the ball through the hands and their ability to identify and create gaps (and have multiple runners on hand to take contact) has been devastating teams. I think that playstyle would be effective against Montpellier who have lost 5 this season and don't look particularly dynamic albeit their main issue seems to be scoring tries as despite their low pool position they aren't leaking too many comparatively.

On the other hand I think the pro14 squad could struggle at scrum time and I don't think we'd enjoy the same quick ruck ball we've been able to generate against pro 14 teams.

I think there might be more mixing and matching this weekend than you would expect with a view to retaining some of that continuity. There are also questions around what our best back row will be with Leavy, Ruddock, Doris, Connors, Conan, VDF and Penny all fit and available.

Ryan will be going through rtpp so no guarantees there. Sexton should be fine but I recall a dead leg keeping Henshaw out for a few weeks before.

Will have to wait for the injury update to confirm who is in the running but could be a real mix and match 23 at the weekend.

Buer

I would expect something along the lines of:

Healy, Tracy, Bent/Porter, Toner, Baird, Ruddock, VDF, Doris, McGrath, Sexton/Byrne, DK, Henshaw, ROL, Lowe/Kelleher, Keenan.

Some genuine tight calls there. Healy and Porter have been fairly flogged by the test team so I wouldn't be surprised to see Bent start although I'd say it's 70/30 for Porter to start and be rested the following week. 74 minutes for Porter yesterday was a joke.

Sexton and Lowe start if available. Otherwise it's RB and Kelleher although I wouldn't be against curve ball selection and putting Frawley at 12, Henshaw at 13 and ROL on the wing.

We should have a very strong bench to come on with that selection. Kelleher, Fardy (who may well start), Leavy, JGP and Frawley would give us some good options. If RB starts, don't rule out Frawley being 23 and us going with a 6/2 split for an away game in France against a big pack. Montpellier won away at Clermont this weekend which is a massive win. They're well able to get a result at home against us. We're going to go with whatever they see as the strongest possible selection.

Richie_Rich89

1. Cian Healy
2. James Tracy
3. Andrew Porter
4. James Ryan/Ryan Baird
5. Devin Toner
6. Ryan Baird/Josh Murphy
7. Dan Leavy
8. Caelan Doris
9. Jamison Gibson-Park
10. Jonathan Sexton/Ross Byrne/Harry Byrne
11. James Lowe/Hugo Keenan/Rory O'Loughlin
12. Ciarán Frawley/Robbie Henshaw
13. Robbie Henshaw/Garry Ringrose
14. Hugo Keenan/David Kearney
15. Jimmy O'Brien/Hugo Keenan

16. Ronan Kelleher
17. Peter Dooley
18. Michael Bent
19. Josh Murphy/Ross Molony
20. Will Connors
21. Luke McGrath
22. Ross Byrne/Harry Byrne
23. Rory O'Loughlin/David Kearney/Cian Kelleher

(players listed in order of preference where there are multiple options, although HB v RB is a bit of a toss-up)

There's quite a lot up in the air with uncertainty over the availability of Ryan, Sexton, Lowe, Ringrose and JOB.

Tracy over Kelleher for extra lineout throwing dependability might be a shrewd pick. Then they could unleash Kelleher at home the following week.

pickarooney

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Doris?

Yeah, his first match at 6 a few weeks back he made 1 tackle and a couple of metres

arsebiscuits1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hugo Keenan is turning into a huge addition to Leinster. Mixing it up really well at International level. Back three of Larmour, Lowe and Keenan will do very nicely.

His one on one tackling is something that really impressed me. Some of the stronger of the Irish back 3 options I've seen recently.

A lot of our outside backs defend for the "positive miss" where they miss it but aren't exactly beaten. It's an evasion where the covering defence completes it.

Keenan is extremely good at fighting to keep his body position good and hunting to complete the tackle after being initially beaten.

Definitely a trait of sevens and something that stands to him

Clegg

Latest injury update from Leinster says JOB, Sexton and Connors will be available for this weekend. Ryan failed his HIA so is now following the usual protocol. Doesn't sound like Ringrose or Lowe will be ready either. Ed Byrne is definitely out.

molloyjh

Clegg wrote: »

Latest injury update from Leinster says JOB, Sexton and Connors will be available for this weekend. Ryan failed his HIA so is now following the usual protocol. Doesn't sound like Ringrose or Lowe will be ready either. Ed Byrne is definitely out.

Hard to see either Healy or Porter being involved either. Doris played every game except the Georgia one too so I'd imagine he won't be available. We're going to be down a good few players this weekend and will be using our 3rd and 4th choice props. Far from ideal. But having Sexton and Henshaw available could make a big difference.

Reckon we could see a 6-2 split.....

Dooley Tracy Bent
Toner Baird
Leavy Ruddock Connors

McGrath Sexton
Frawley Henshaw
Kearney JOB Kelleher

Kelleher, Milne, Clarkson, Fardy, Murphy, VDF, JGP, RByrne

bayern

we aren't going to france with Clarkson and Milne on the bench.

Dog Botherer

yeah Healy and Porter will likely play the last few minutes.

KH25

I see Parker has gone back to Jersey Reds. That was an incredibly short loan! Thought he did well when called upon.

sydthebeat

KH25 wrote: »

I see Parker has gone back to Jersey Reds. That was an incredibly short loan! Thought he did well when called upon.

hopefully means Furlong is well done the rehabilitation path

El_Duderino 09

pickarooney wrote: »

Yeah, his first match at 6 a few weeks back he made 1 tackle and a couple of metres

Fair enough. I'm genuiely surprised to see that.

So the next question is why Ireland can't get performances out of its 6s. Other teams have very influential 6s

Happyhouse22

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Fair enough. I'm genuiely surprised to see that.

So the next question is why Ireland cant get performances out of it's 6s. Other teams have very influential 6s

Unseen work


Half joking and half serious here, Simon Easterby is the one that always stands out to me, he kept on getting picked despite what looked like much better performances from others, at the time people put it down to his unseen work, and I guess there must be something in that, Ireland’s 6 is just being asked to do work that means the they have to sacrifice parts of their games that get the plaudits.

Or maybe the jersey is just haunted.

Irish Beef

molloyjh wrote: »

Hard to see either Healy or Porter being involved either. Doris played every game except the Georgia one too so I'd imagine he won't be available. We're going to be down a good few players this weekend and will be using our 3rd and 4th choice props. Far from ideal. But having Sexton and Henshaw available could make a big difference.

Reckon we could see a 6-2 split.....

Dooley Tracy Bent
Toner Baird
Leavy Ruddock Connors

McGrath Sexton
Frawley Henshaw
Kearney JOB Kelleher

Kelleher, Milne, Clarkson, Fardy, Murphy, VDF, JGP, RByrne

Cant see Healy, Porter and Keenan not being involved this weekend. No way they'll go over with those front row options.

El_Duderino 09

Irish Beef wrote: »

Cant see Healy, Porter and Keenan not being involved this weekend. No way they'll go over with those front row options.

I imagine they will play too. Can't afford to muck around with Europe. But the props have played a serious amount of rugby. Porter in particular, has played 6 games in 7 weeks and he'll play the next two games to make it 8 games in 9 weeks. The French wouldn't flog him like that. I understand that it's necessary as he's the best avaiolable tighthead in the country, but i bet he does very little training in these few weeks apart from a trot out to keep him limber.

Injury must be a serious concern for a player who plays so many minutes.

Podge_irl

Pretty much everyone will play, potentially some rested at home, but good luck seeing any of them in the Pro14 before the Euro group stages are finished.

arsebiscuits1

I don't think the managed minutes apply to European games.

Can't see anyone being rested this weekend if they're fit.

Richie_Rich89

Irish Beef wrote: »

Cant see Healy, Porter and Keenan not being involved this weekend. No way they'll go over with those front row options.

How can Ireland ever hope to win a World Cup if players can't play 7 matches in a row?

I suppose if all the data they measure is indicating someone might be exhausted or likely to get injured, and the other, non-international option is playing well then it might be a factor, but I think we'll see most of the players who were away with the international team starting.

I think the spectre of it being difficult to seamlessly integrate players who've been away will be a bigger concern than internationals being fatigued.

aloooof

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

How can Ireland ever hope to win a World Cup if players can't play 7 matches in a row?

To be fair, there's normally 1 (or 2) RWC group stage games where the 15 get heavily rotated, so I imagine it would be pretty atypical to play all 7 matches if you get to a final, particularly front row (which were 2 of the players mentioned).

For example, against Russia, we started a front row of Kilcoyne, Scannell and John Ryan. Of the 2 finalists, look at the SA team vs Namibia and the England team vs USA.

Richie_Rich89

Based on the injury update I think I'd go with:

1. Cian Healy
2. James Tracy
3. Andrew Porter
4. Ryan Baird
5. Devin Toner
6. Josh Murphy
7. Dan Leavy
8. Caelan Doris
9. Jamison Gibson-Park
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Hugo Keenan
12. Ciarán Frawley
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. David Kearney
15. Jimmy O'Brien

16. Ronan Kelleher
17. Peter Dooley
18. Michael Bent
19. Ross Molony
20. Will Connors
21. Luke McGrath
22. Ross Byrne
23. Rory O'Loughlin

Ross v Harry Byrne is a close one. It could be a big blow to RB's confidence if he doesn't get the nod.

Burkie1203

Irish Beef wrote: »

Cant see Healy, Porter and Keenan not being involved this weekend. No way they'll go over with those front row options.

Healy and Porter will play the 2 euro games and then won't play again until the 3rd inter pro. Think that goes for a good few others across the provinces. They have been in camp for the guts of 7 weeks

bayern

19 year old sub academy fullback/wing from Naas RFC Jamie Osborne training with seniors yesterday:

The Parish King

Looks like the Irish players have returned to the squad, but Healy, Porter, Henshaw, Keenan and (possibly), JGP weren’t training.

There could be more players who sat out that I haven’t seen photographed, but Ryan, R. Byrne, Connors and JvdF look to be training.

Anyone else a bit burnt out of Rugby right now. I'm not very excited about the upcoming match

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone else a bit burnt out of Rugby right now. I'm not very excited about the upcoming match

not at all. covid means ive attended lowest number of games in any season at this stage of season in about 8 years. Normally ive been to 50 games plus. Been to around 10.
Dont know how you could be burnt out from rugby when theres so little else on