Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

salmocab

kennedmc wrote: »

Is our match only live on BT sport

Yep

joseywhales

TRC10 wrote: »

What led you to that conclusion? Surely wed have picked Connors if that was the case. And we've picked Frawley at 12 which isnt a defensive selection by any means. Jimmy O'Brien at 15 is a quality ball player too.

Admittedly frawley can be a nice playmaker at 12 but that pack has a lot of work in it. Ruddock, fardy, the front row, line speed led by vdf and toner defending lineouts and disrupting mauls with ruddock. It's gonna be attritional to break leinster down. Doris and frawley are great footballers though, so maybe we will unlock them on the counter. What we don't have are many powerful ball carriers but there's a lot of dog in the pack.

bayern

FT Leinster A 44 Cpmnacht Eagles 14

TRIES: Alex Soroka (2), Jack Dunne, Aaron O'Sullivan, Max O'Reilly, Cormac Foley, Penalty Try; CONS: D Hawkshaw (2); PEN: D Hawkshaw
TRIES: Oisin McCormack, Peter Sullivan; CONS: Cathal Forde (2).

Michael Silvester (Jamie Osborne 25); Aaron O'Sullivan (Chris Cosgrave 65), Max O'Reilly, Liam Turner, Andrew Smith (Niall Comerford 45); David Hawkshaw, Hugh O'Sullivan (Cormac Foley 45); Marcus Hanan (Jack Boyle 70), Dan Sheehan (Lee Barron 65), Greg McGrath (Thomas Connolly 75); Charlie Ryan, Jack Dunne CAPTAIN; Martin Moloney (Joe McCarthy 59), Sean O'Brien, Alex Soroka (Will Hickey 69).

Stan27

bayern wrote: »

FT Leinster A 44 Cpmnacht Eagles 14

TRIES: Alex Soroka (2), Jack Dunne, Aaron O'Sullivan, Max O'Reilly, Cormac Foley, Penalty Try; CONS: D Hawkshaw (2); PEN: D Hawkshaw
TRIES: Oisin McCormack, Peter Sullivan; CONS: Cathal Forde (2).

Michael Silvester (Jamie Osborne 25); Aaron O'Sullivan (Chris Cosgrave 65), Max O'Reilly, Liam Turner, Andrew Smith (Niall Comerford 45); David Hawkshaw, Hugh O'Sullivan (Cormac Foley 45); Marcus Hanan (Jack Boyle 70), Dan Sheehan (Lee Barron 65), Greg McGrath (Thomas Connolly 75); Charlie Ryan, Jack Dunne CAPTAIN; Martin Moloney (Joe McCarthy 59), Sean O'Brien, Alex Soroka (Will Hickey 69).

How did martin maloney play?

The Lost Sheep

Stan27 wrote: »

How did martin maloney play?

It wasnt streamed no-one here knows...

TRC10

Not saying this should happen, just speculating/floating ideas.

Frawley had a great game today. I really liked how he was used and he gave us the ability to shift the ball wide of first phase by having a quality distributor at 12. With Ringrose soon to come back from his jaw injury (back training I think). Does it open the door for Leinster to try out Henshaw at 15? I know his last outing there was a bit of a disaster but he hadn't played there for 4 years and was thrown in against England who played the best theyd ever played under Eddie Jones. Big difference between that and getting a few games there at pro14 level.

The way the game is going now, where space is at a premium and tactical kicking is so important because of the strength of defenses, I think frawley at 12 could be a real asset to us. Just an idea, I'm not saying it should or shouldn't happen but I'm interested to hear peoples thoughts.

pickarooney

As a way to get/keep Henshaw on the pitch or because he's a better FB than Keenan, Larmour and JOB?

TRC10

pickarooney wrote: »

As a way to get/keep Henshaw on the pitch or because he's a better FB than Keenan, Larmour and JOB?

Well it would be to keep him on the pitch. We don't know if he could be a better full back than those lads because he has barely played there in years. If we want to keep Frawley at 12, other option would be Ringrose on the wing, but I dont think that would or should happen.

irishbucsfan

I think its much more likely that Frawley will drop out of the team. I'd be much more excited to see a backline with Henshaw/Ringrose in midfield and JOB at fullback

El_Duderino 09

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think its much more likely that Frawley will drop out of the team. I'd be much more excited to see a backline with Henshaw/Ringrose in midfield and JOB at fullback

Rory O'Loughlin has been a good reserve centre, and I’ve been impressed by how much he has improved over the last couple of seasons, but Frawley is a better option and he improves the whole setup. I think Frawley probably drops to the bench and ROL probably drops out of the squad.

Frawley seems to tackle above his weight. Is he bigger than I think or is he likely to injure himself?

FrannoFan

Lancaster a fan of the playmaker at 15 I don't think henshaw plays that role.
I think if ringrose comes back in frawley drops out and henshaw back to 12.
The thing I'd be interested to see is who plays 15/back 3 in that scenario if Lowe and larmour are also fit.
Keenan has different strengths but isn't as good a playmaker as jimmy O'Brien. Kearney a try machine.
Good problem for the coaches

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez

JOB for me had a mixed game. Had a few wayward passes and offloads that were caught but stopped us going forward. He also has a slicing kicking technique that cuts through the ball and can lead to directionless kicks. I think these are little things and obviously he brings more to the game in terms of hitting the line into the attack and offering himself around the park and being that playmaker looking for gaps.

I wonder if he isn’t the opposite to Keenan who is solid at the fundamentals but maybe lacks a bit going forward. I’d like to see Frawley given a shot at 15 because Lowe and JOB in the same back three for me causes us unecessary problems.

Former Former Former

When Ringrose, Larmour and Lowe are back, the most likely scenario is that Keenan, JOB and Frawley drop out. It's harsh but such is pro sport.

Henshaw has been in fantastic form, one of the few internationals to actually see his stock rise in the autumn.

TRC10

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez wrote: »

JOB for me had a mixed game. Had a few wayward passes and offloads that were caught but stopped us going forward. He also has a slicing kicking technique that cuts through the ball and can lead to directionless kicks. I think these are little things and obviously he brings more to the game in terms of hitting the line into the attack and offering himself around the park and being that playmaker looking for gaps. I do think Obrien needs to improve his long range kicking if he wants to move up from 3rd in the fullback pecking order. Hes got a very good short kicking game and passing game however. But i agree it was a bit of a mixed bag.

I wonder if he isn’t the opposite to Keenan who is solid at the fundamentals but maybe lacks a bit going forward. I’d like to see Frawley given a shot at 15 because Lowe and JOB in the same back three for me causes us unecessary problems.

Agreed, I think our first choice back 3 right now is 15-Keenan 14-Larmour 11-Lowe. Then henshaw and Ringrose in the centres. It's a strong lineup but the only issue is you miss out on the 2nd playmaker. And frawley doesn't drop to the bench in that scenario because the 22 spot will be taken by one of the Byrnes and 23 by an outside back (kearney, o'loughlin, obrien etc). So for me Frawley either starts or isnt in the 23.

If Frawley keeps up his form, perhaps ringrose gets put on the wing when he's back? Wouldnt be my preferred choice because hes a class 13 but we know Stuart loves having a 2nd out and out ball player in the backline and Frawley fits the bill perfectly. Itll be interesting to see how that goes.

Wegians89

When he’s fit, ringrose at 13 should be the only nailed on player in both Leinster and Ireland’s lineups. First name on the teams sheet and wouldn’t entertain any thoughts of moving him

TRC10

Wegians89 wrote: »

When he’s fit, ringrose at 13 should be the only nailed on player in both Leinster and Ireland’s lineups. First name on the teams sheet and wouldn’t entertain any thoughts of moving him

Wouldnt go so far as to say that. Hes played 2 games for ireland this year and didn't make it to the 2nd half in either. And Henshaw and Aki have been consistently good. I agree Ringrose can be world class but certainly not the first name on the team sheet.

molloyjh

TRC10 wrote: »

Wouldnt go so far as to say that. Hes played 2 games for ireland this year and didn't make it to the 2nd half in either. And Henshaw and Aki have been consistently good. I agree Ringrose can be world class but certainly not the first name on the team sheet.

I wouldn't say Aki has been consistently good this year. In fact he's been quite disappointing since the resumption. I had him ahead of Henshaw in September. Now I'd have Henshaw comfortably in front.

Also, given how Ireland are looking to play, Ringrose is incredibly important to that. We've seen how our centres struggle to bring others into the game when he isn't there. I'm not sure I ever buy into "first name on the team sheet" thing in a literal sense. But for me Ringrose is a dead cert when fit, which is really the substantive point being made i think.

bayern

TRC10 wrote: »

Wouldnt go so far as to say that. Hes played 2 games for ireland this year and didn't make it to the 2nd half in either. And Henshaw and Aki have been consistently good. I agree Ringrose can be world class but certainly not the first name on the team sheet.

He was voted irish player of the year by the pro rugby players in Ireland .

Garda Kenny

With Fardy and Toner likely gone at the end of the season I wonder will we start trying out some second rows who are capable lineout options like C Ryan or Deeny? Baird and J Ryan haven’t inspired confidence in their lineout performance to date. Obviously Dunne also an option and if one of them can prove to be a stable source of possession at lineout time they will enhance their case for inclusion in match day squads?

TRC10

bayern wrote: »

He was voted irish player of the year by the pro rugby players in Ireland .

I'm sure he was, but you cant say that a guy who hasn't played 80 minutes of international rugby this the year, is the first name on the team sheet. Aki's post lockdown form hasn't been as good as it was before, that's fair. But hes not the only one in that bracket (Stander, Ryan, conway are others).

Interested Observer

TRC10 wrote: »

I'm sure he was, but you cant say that a guy who hasn't played 80 minutes of international rugby this the year, is the first name on the team sheet. Aki's post lockdown form hasn't been as good as it was before, that's fair. But hes not the only one in that bracket (Stander, Ryan, conway are others).

This is a very odd argument. Do you come next 6N Farrell is going to think to himself "Garry is our best outside back, but he got a knee straight to the jaw against Italy so I'll go with someone else instead"?

TRC10

Interested Observer wrote: »

This is a very odd argument. Do you come next 6N Farrell is going to think to himself "Garry is our best outside back, but he got a knee straight to the jaw against Italy so I'll go with someone else instead"?

Complete straw man argument from yourself there. I literally never said that. I said he wasnt "first name on the team sheet" as someone said he was.

Faugheen

TRC10 wrote: »

Complete straw man argument from yourself there. I literally never said that. I said he wasnt "first name on the team sheet" as someone said he was.

I think he is, because we lack so much in midfield when he isn’t there.

He’s easily the best centre we have. When fit he should be in the team, simple as that.

AbusesToilets

I'd like to see Frawley and Ringrose get a run together.

TRC10

Faugheen wrote: »

I think he is, because we lack so much in midfield when he isn’t there.

He’s easily the best centre we have. When fit he should be in the team, simple as that.

On form, Henshaw is our best centre, and I do think Ringrose is the best player. But theres an argument to be made that Aki and Henshaw is our best partnership. And that was Schmidt's first choice pairing going into the world cup.

Faugheen

TRC10 wrote: »

On form, Henshaw is our best centre, and I do think Ringrose is the best player. But theres an argument to be made that Aki and Henshaw is our best partnership. And that was Schmidt's first choice pairing going into the world cup.

There has never been a time when Robbie Henshaw, as good as he is, looked better than Ringrose.

Ringrose is a completely different class.

sydthebeat

TRC10 wrote: »

On form, Henshaw is our best centre, and I do think Ringrose is the best player. But theres an argument to be made that Aki and Henshaw is our best partnership. And that was Schmidt's first choice pairing going into the world cup.

hummmmmm

how do you make that out?

Aki and Ringrose started the first game against Scotland (henshaw was injured)
Farrell and Ringrose started v Japan (Aki and Henshaw injured)
Aki and Ringrose v Russia

Henshaw and Ringrose v New Zealand (Aki suspended)

the only game that Aki and Henshaw started was the trouncing of samoa (ringrose rested)


in the warm up games Aki and Ringrose started away in england, easily the toughest warm up game.
Farrell and Ringrose started the first game against Italy
Aki / Farrell wales 1st game

the only game Aki / Henshaw started was the 2nd wales game


so in 9 RWC associated games in 2019, Aki and henshaw only started 2 of them...

hardly enough to claim they were the coaches first choice starting pair.

molloyjh

TRC10 wrote: »

On form, Henshaw is our best centre, and I do think Ringrose is the best player. But theres an argument to be made that Aki and Henshaw is our best partnership. And that was Schmidt's first choice pairing going into the world cup.

Aki-Henshaw is categorically not our best centre partnership. Especially not given how we are looking to play at the moment. Ringrose offers something neither of our other centre options do. And both Joe and now Farrell have been looking to increase his involvement in games, trying to develop his as a second playmaker in the back line. I can't think of any meaningful game that Ringrose was available for where he wasn't selected.

Garda Kenny

molloyjh wrote: »

Aki-Henshaw is categorically not our best centre partnership. Especially not given how we are looking to play at the moment. Ringrose offers something neither of our other centre options do. And both Joe and now Farrell have been looking to increase his involvement in games, trying to develop his as a second playmaker in the back line. I can't think of any meaningful game that Ringrose was available for where he wasn't selected.

The problem with Ringrose is his build and that he takes the ball going sideways more often than not. He tends to get swallowed up when playing against the Sarries and England’s. He is fairly slight and not particularly fast. Having said that he is a world class reader of the game and scores tries from it and defends the 13 channel better than anyone we have in that position. If he didn’t do those slaloming runs around the back of rucks taking his supporting players out of the game he would be better for it. But the hype is a bit much much - he’s a solid player if unspectacular.

Queue backlash from overly defensive people. He shouldn’t be above critical analysis and there are areas he can improve his game.

scott1974

Garda Kenny wrote: »

The problem with Ringrose is his build and that he takes the ball going sideways more often than not. He tends to get swallowed up when playing against the Sarries and England’s. He is fairly slight and not particularly fast. Having said that he is a world class reader of the game and scores tries from it and defends the 13 channel better than anyone we have in that position. If he didn’t do those slaloming runs around the back of rucks taking his supporting players out of the game he would be better for it. But the hype is a bit much much - he’s a solid player if unspectacular.

Queue backlash from overly defensive people. He shouldn’t be above critical analysis and there are areas he can improve his game.

Where's that mute button.. aaahhh, there we go.