Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Morathi

molloyjh wrote: »

When you look at who we were missing before the game its completely understandable...

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong, Porter, Abdaladze, Clarkson
Fardy, Ryan
Ruddock, Doris, VDF, Murphy, Deegan

JGP
Ross Byrne, Harry Byrne
Henshaw, Frawley, COB
Ringrose, TOB
Lowe, Larmour, Keenan, Kelleher, Adam Byrne, Silvester

And then to lose Penny, Sexton, ROL and JOB during the game. Thats over 30 players in total. Sure we have depth, but thats almost a full senior squad of players. No club has that much depth. Hopefully we get a couple of injured players back as well as a bunch of internationals. But we've already seen the disruption bringing the latter in has caused. We need them to be on the ball next week.

And but for a tight call on crossing (correct though imo), we would have been on a BP and within 4 points with 15 mins to go.

To be honest, all things considered, not a disaster at all.

Former Former Former

In the bigger scheme of things, this was a disappointing night but that's it, it doesn't mean much for next week or beyond.

molloyjh

In some ways it may be an important lesson for some lads who have been able to coast along without much in the way of adversity on the pitch until now. Not their fault at all, but things have been pretty easy for them.

Dubinusa

Not surprising given the fact that a couple of 1st year academy lads started.
No idea who coaches the line outs, but he should be canned. We're 3 months back to playing and nobody can call, run or throw into a line out.
There's something about Leinster this year. Even at full strength we don't look fluid and cohesive. I have noticed a lesser standard all around this year. Anyone else?
I think we will fall short in Europe this year. I just think we are lacking something. I can't put it in proper words, but we aren't as good as we have been over the last couple of years.
Not commenting solely on today's result, it's just that I think we're a little stale and the chemistry seems off.
I thought today could have been a loss. In a way, it could be a blessing.
I reckon the injuries have been disastrous and I think we probably won't see a full primed side for a while. But, even when full strength, I think we are beatable.

sydthebeat

Surely we have to go as strong as humanly possible for next weekend?
Its 5 points or nothing

arsebiscuits1

sydthebeat wrote: »

Surely we have to go as strong as humanly possible for next weekend?
Its 5 points or nothing

The big guns will have had 3 weeks off and Europe will be the game after. I don't think the plan was ever for them to come into that game cold.

I imagine fitness and Covid status permitting were looking at:

Healy Kelleher Porter
Baird Ryan
3 back rows
JGP Byrne
Frawley Henshaw
Kearney Jimmy Keenan

Might be a bit hopeful on Jimmy. Didn't see why he got pulled ashore. Might see Kelleher (Cian) involved.

FrannoFan

Morathi wrote: »

And but for a tight call on crossing (correct though imo), we would have been on a BP and within 4 points with 15 mins to go.

To be honest, all things considered, not a disaster at all.

Only a disaster from the perspective that it's top spot or gone.
We may not get to play covid postponed games and then see what ways they are adjudicated.

Leinster (& Ireland) have struggled with rush defences in last 2/3 seasons. Never really trying to do anything different in the face of them.

Saracens and England obviously the two best examples, but Connacht's pressure in defence last night had the same level of accuracy and ferocity and we get absolutely stuck on the back foot by it.

With either Byrne at 10 I feel we have good tools available to try and put manners on a defence, but I think Sexton's game really really struggles vs that type of pressure.

Where is the space on the pitch and why do we keep aiming for the ball to arrive in the 13 channel at the exact moment the rush defence does?

pickarooney

Have you not watched Ross Byrne against a rush defence? He's utterly at sea

FrannoFan

Dubinusa wrote: »

Not surprising given the fact that a couple of 1st year academy lads started.
No idea who coaches the line outs, but he should be canned. We're 3 months back to playing and nobody can call, run or throw into a line out.
There's something about Leinster this year. Even at full strength we don't look fluid and cohesive. I have noticed a lesser standard all around this year. Anyone else?
I think we will fall short in Europe this year. I just think we are lacking something. I can't put it in proper words, but we aren't as good as we have been over the last couple of years.
Not commenting solely on today's result, it's just that I think we're a little stale and the chemistry seems off.
I thought today could have been a loss. In a way, it could be a blessing.
I reckon the injuries have been disastrous and I think we probably won't see a full primed side for a while. But, even when full strength, I think we are beatable.

Agree we will fall short in Europe this year. More so because we have a totally inept Line-out. I think a lot of teams struggling for cohesion this year but the same way we struggled against saracens because of a lack of a scrum we will lack a platform with our Line-out the way it is. Even against northampton/Montpelier we resorted to ball at 1 to a non lifted player just to get the ball back. That won't do against Exeter/racing

Squidgy Black

pickarooney wrote: »

Have you not watched Ross Byrne against a rush defence? He's utterly at sea

Yup it's his biggest weakness, when the opposition is shooting up he ends up sitting much deeper and becomes completely ineffective. Which is what happened to him vs England.

He has the tools (at the end of his legs!) but has 100% not employed them.

irishbucsfan

I don't really have major concerns about a "rush" defense. Connacht's defense wasn't really a particularly aggressive system, it's just Leinster gave them easy targets and the likes of Daly were more than good enough to take advantage of them.

If Leinster were able to play with more tempo they would have found a lot more success. McGrath's try was a great example of that, Delahunt wasn't able to fold around the ruck quick enough and there was a massive gap there. Playing with better tempo in the opposition half and not overplaying the ball in their own half (the glaring mistake against Sarries) and suddenly the pressure will be on the defense rather than vice-versa. Byrne's role in that is actually fairly minimal unless something is broken.

Clegg

One of the few positives from last night was Baird's performance. He's potentially the most destructive carrier we've had since SOB. It's not just his power either. He has freakish agility for a second row. He sidestepped out of tackles a few times as well.

JOB had a tough time when he moved to 10 but still showed some good flashes when.he got a bit of space. Think we might see.gim called up to the Six Nations squad if he remains fit.

Garda Kenny

Watching last night was sobering viewing and was probably not a harmful way to start the new year. Cullen for all his attributes seems to be organiser in chief and selector and does little of the coaching aspect of his role. He’s the best candidate still to manage Leinster but I wonder if he couldn’t take a step down from the organisation side of things towards the more hands on aspect of coaching and organising things like our lineout and clear out play.

It’s hard to say how Leinster play definitively at the breakdown and our transitioning from defence to attack seems fragmented at times. A lot of this is due to personnel changes and players not slotting into the system but at times it seems as if there is no system. It seems to be adapt to the chaos in front of you which can lead to disjointed play. Lancaster is the coach and the forward play is suffering because of it. Discipline will get you only so far without an overararching system in which to play. Like when do we pick and go or when do we commit players to rucks or how do we manufacture wide plays or when to go wide or direct off first phase. Heads up is a lottery and at times that seems to reflect in our game plan.

On the negative side of the ledger we had Luke McGrath who looks like an Under 9 rather than a pro scrum half. A scrum half without a long pass or box kick shouldn’t be in the pro game. He is committed and a fantastically committed tackler but his game has limitations that should not be present in a pro. I thought the Jimmy to outhalf experiment was a stretch too far. Hopefully Cullen doesn’t do it again. Max O Reilly shouldn’t have been 15 it should have been Dave Kearney with O Reilly on the wing. Lineout was a shambles but we know Tracy can throw and Dev can jump so not sure why it is still breaking down. Letting the players fix it themselves isn’t the answer and Cullen should ship some blame for not sorting it out by now. Treating them as adults and pros is one thing but they still need an overarching plan and direction or system in place.

On the plus side I thought Greg McGrath and Hawkshaw did well when they came on. Hawkshaw takes the ball flat and on the line at speed and this led to an intercept but the intent and purpose was there. Penny played well and made yards as well the first time I have seen him go forward as a carrier since he started playing for us. He still probably has to go with Deegan at the end of the season but he showed progress last night.

Dubinusa

The turmoil of covid has affected every side. Our inclusion of O'Reilly and Smith shows that. But again, every team is suffering.
The fact that our line out is a lottery is frustrating. Nobody apparently, seems to know what they're doing. It's been a mess for months.
I suppose all teams would suffer minus the front line lads, but you would expect the set piece to be a reliable source of ball.

I think smaller squads would hurt the provinces. Finances will dictate the squads from now and I'm sure that results will be poor. I think that the league is lopsided. The provinces are the best teams etc! The arrival of the bok sides will change that imo. Irish sides will struggle against them, imo. The squad size would be a difference maker. Mainly due to the ability to bring in seasoned professionals instead of 1st yr academy lads.

So this season will probably spell the end of
Fardy
Cronin
Toner
Possibly the release of Adam Byrne and Conor O Brien.
I would think that Sexton will also be fairly close to retirement. I just don't see him surviving much longer.
With no funds to bring in a Fardy type niq, and who knows if the funds are there to keep the lads we have? This is probably the same scenario for all 4 provinces.
I think Leinster might see a spell of no silverware in the near future. Considering that some lads may have to move for playing time. The lure of the top14 and the premiership may cause more lads to pick up and leave.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/byrne-conan-and-ruddock-all-available-for-selection/?FixGuid=20LU7671

Ruddock back which is encouraging.

No solid update on Frawley, Harry or Ross which is more concerning. Sexton wont play. Jimmy is unlikely to be fit and even if he was I don't think he'd be taking the 10 shirt again.

Given this is a Friday night fixture the one less day could be significant.

Strong possibility that Hawkshaw is starting at 10 for this one. Not ideal for a top of the table clash

molloyjh

Surely Ross is fit? Played the full 80 vs Northampton and was rested for Connacht, no?

My guess is:

Healy Tracy Porter
Fardy Ryan
Ruddock Doris VDF

JGP RByrne
Henshaw Turner
Kearney Keenan Smith

Cronin, Byrne, Bent, Baird, Conan, McGrath, Hawkshaw, Connors

Put Frawley to 12 and Henshaw to 13 if the former is fit (doubtful). We might even swap Fardy and Baird.

bayern

Ross is unavailable.

foxyladyxx

Larmour back training.

Sanjuro

Ross Byrne at... 13?! How often has that happened?

bayern

thats ridiculous. He has never played a position other than 10 since leaving school and even in school he only played 10. He is simply too slow.

thomond2006

bayern wrote: »

Ross is unavailable.

Sack your source!

thomond2006

The very surprising choice at 13 aside (can JOB not play there?), you'd expect that Leinster side to have enough.

arsebiscuits1

Dire straits that we've had to put Ross at 13.

And clearly played our hand to Ulster about Jimmys fitness.

Strange not to see Baird involved at all.

Having said all that - monster pack. Great to see.

Sanjuro

Could Johnny have played 12, Henshaw 13 and put Ross Byrne at 10?

thomond2006

Sometimes we can read too much into jersey numbers. Maybe Henshaw lines up outside when Leinster don't have the ball. We'll see.

errlloyd

Sanjuro wrote: »

Could Johnny have played 12, Henshaw 13 and put Ross Byrne at 10?

Larmour played a lot of 13 in school and club.

irishbucsfan

That is mad

arsebiscuits1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sometimes we can read too much into jersey numbers. Maybe Henshaw lines up outside when Leinster don't have the ball. We'll see.

Presumable Robbie will be defending the 13 channel yeah.

And in fairness. We've played and won games where the ball didn't need to go past Robbie at 12 ha.

1-12 that's an insanely strong team.